[HealthDharma] Turning Suffering Inside Out, chapter three

[Kokuu]

This weeks section is the entirety of chapter three (p43-50, complete chapter)

In this chapter, Darlene talks about pleasure, and specifically that we can still experience pleasure in the middle of suffering, which can seem counter-intuitive. Although Buddhism is neither about seeking out pleasure, or pushing away pain, being able to observe the instances of pleasure while we also experience pain, can provide some sense of relief and comfort.

She points out the difference between consuming in order to get pleasure and finding pleasure in the small and ordinary – birdsong, the warmth of bath water (or even washing the hands), the softness of a favourite blanket – and notes that western culture still bears the hallmarks of the body/spirit split of Abrahamic religious thought, in which the body, and pleasures of the body, are seen as either sinful or not to be encouraged. The human body has nerve endings which can experience both pain and pleasure and meditation practice is about opening ourselves to both as the wholeness of life.

Darlene notes that Buddhist teachings are correct in that we tend to be attracted to pleasure and to experience aversion to pain, but she is not talking about doing this, or judging the amount we have of one against the other, but instead opening ourselves to the fullness of experience without neglecting either part.

Experiencing the fullness of live means being attentive to your body, but not to the extent of hypervigilance, rather checking in with how you are doing, or gently responding to cues in the body without overreacting. Darlene talks about having an intimate relationship with our body by attending to this moment right now, rather than thinking about whether we felt better yesterday, or will feel better tomorrow.

It can feel selfish to nurture our own joy, especially in the case of illness when we might be unable to fulfil our share of domestic tasks or salaried work. However, Darlene points out that by doing this, we become able to share what we do have and be generous, rather than feel obligated to hand over what little remains of our energy out of guilt.

The chapter ends with Darlene noting that healing is often found is pleasure, and we should endeavour to make our lives pleasurable as part of healing (in terms of making whole, not just medical healing).

Question prompts:

1. Where do you find pleasure in your life, especially pleasures of the body?

2. How do you feel when you deliberately seek out pleasure? Do you think of it somehow being 'not Buddhist'?


Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday/lah-

[Brett]

This chapter for me really gets to the heart of what Darlene really advocated in her ideas on finding joy in the midst of pain and has been a great help to me personally.

While I have good days and bad days with my ailments, there is always more benefit to endure than to give up and allow the pain to gain control over you.

1. I find enjoyment in playing with my young son and doing activities as a family with my wife and son. Dialysis days are particularly hard as I get so tired, but my family is very supportive and understanding of my limitations. We like to travel when we can, also a challenge for me trying to find dialysis in other parts of the country and get everything setup, but well worth it.

2. Seeking out pleasure has more downside than up in my option. If I go seeking, then I setup expectations that I can let myself down on. Instead I simply to prefer to setup a situation in which joy or pleasure can be possible and then just go with the flow. If I pushed myself to have "fun" every time we wanted to do something I would imagine it could be a huge disappointment, instead I learned to listen to my body and let it choose for me what I am going to do. I also try to remain unattached to forcing myself into something as it would just make me and my family miserable. Instead if I am not up for something, I let them go have the adventure without me and I will just pick it up the next day. This seems to yield the greatest results for me.

Gassho _/\_
Brett

[Tairin]

Thank you Kokuu

I liked her down to earth discussion about the pleasure/pain axis and in particular the discussion about where one stops and the other begins. It isn’t black and white. Even to suggest it is a gradient feels wrong.

1. Where do you find pleasure in your life, especially pleasures of the body?

I am fortunate to be able bodied. While I might think that I want to be lazy and sit around for the day I know that leaves me feeling empty. I am most happy when I am active, going for a walk, exerting myself in some way (workout, run) or spending a good chunk of time with my guitar being creative.

2. How do you feel when you deliberately seek out pleasure? Do you think of it somehow being 'not Buddhist'?

I never thought that being Buddhist meant that we had to lead a life of denial. Being Buddhist though does mean understanding why we might be deliberately seeking out pleasure.


Tairin
Sat today and lah

[Alina]

Thank you Kokuu

1. Where do you find pleasure in your life, especially pleasures of the body?

How hard it is to put all of this into practice when we are running on empty...

This chapter was a bit hard for me because I'm usually "in charge", the only grown up in the room, so the chances of just having fun and finding pleasure for me are slim.
Caregiving has me trapped in the feeling that I am tied at other's whims, that my freedom ends where their needs begin, and their needs seem so endless...
Lately, the moments that I've enjoyed the most have been moments when nobody needs me, no demands, no interruptions, I can do as I please... this may sound super selfish, but it's not, it's mental-health-care

2. How do you feel when you deliberately seek out pleasure? Do you think of it somehow being 'not Buddhist'?

Like Brett said

If I go seeking, then I setup expectations that I can let myself down on. Instead I simply to prefer to setup a situation in which joy or pleasure can be possible and then just go with the flow

This way I am more able to enjoy whatever is possible, whether that is 5 minutes or 2 hours of a fun activity, which can be as simple as reading a book or watching a movie, no need for anything big.

I don't worry about being a good Buddhist, or a bad one. I am the Buddhist that I can be at any particular moment, I try to stay present, "awake to the moment" as much as it is possible for me at any given time. Seeking pleasure can also be a part of the practice, if we are aware of what we are choosing to do at the same time.


Gassho

Alina
st+lah

[Kaitan]

1. Where do you find pleasure in your life, especially pleasures of the body?

Mindful pleasure I find it in warm showers, chocolate, feeling the sun rays on my skin, generally moderated warm. I can think about those at the moment.

2. How do you feel when you deliberately seek out pleasure? Do you think of it somehow being 'not Buddhist'?

I feel guilt some times, most likely due to some trauma. More than not Buddhist is maybe a feeling of not worth the nourishment.


It was quite insightful when she says:

It's not the original decision to change something about yourself that becomes the problem; it's your attachment to the outcome

and

When you do prefer one state of mind over another, whether it's pleasure or pain, you lose your capacity to be present in the moment

As you once told me that the aversion of pain comes from that feeling that it will stay forever with me. Here practice and paying attention to the present experience is essential. But how I see it is that we distract ourselves from being present, therefore we can't pay attention towards what we are trying to numb. A loop hole, ultimately, but every moment we have the opportunity to be aware and start over.

Gasshō

stlah, Kaitan

[Kokuu]

This chapter for me really gets to the heart of what Darlene really advocated in her ideas on finding joy in the midst of pain and has been a great help to me personally.

While I have good days and bad days with my ailments, there is always more benefit to endure than to give up and allow the pain to gain control over you.

Yes, I find Darlene's focus on joy as well as pain is really helpful, and not something often emphasised in Buddhism.
Whereas I can understand not wanting to allow the pain to control you, often I do find benefit to think of surrendering to the pain rather than enduring it.

1. I find enjoyment in playing with my young son and doing activities as a family with my wife and son. Dialysis days are particularly hard as I get so tired, but my family is very supportive and understanding of my limitations. We like to travel when we can, also a challenge for me trying to find dialysis in other parts of the country and get everything setup, but well worth it.

Family time sounds lovely, and I can imagine dialysis days much be hard. That is great that you can travel and find dialysis where you are going. I am glad that can happen.

2. Seeking out pleasure has more downside than up in my option. If I go seeking, then I setup expectations that I can let myself down on. Instead I simply to prefer to setup a situation in which joy or pleasure can be possible and then just go with the flow. If I pushed myself to have "fun" every time we wanted to do something I would imagine it could be a huge disappointment, instead I learned to listen to my body and let it choose for me what I am going to do. I also try to remain unattached to forcing myself into something as it would just make me and my family miserable. Instead if I am not up for something, I let them go have the adventure without me and I will just pick it up the next day. This seems to yield the greatest results for me.

That sounds like a good attitude in listening to your body. It can be hard letting others go without you but it really is important to follow the cues that your body is giving you.


Gassho
Kokuu

[Kokuu]

I am fortunate to be able bodied. While I might think that I want to be lazy and sit around for the day I know that leaves me feeling empty. I am most happy when I am active, going for a walk, exerting myself in some way (workout, run) or spending a good chunk of time with my guitar being creative.

It sounds like your know your body and mind, Tairin. There is not problem is taking rest but laziness seems like something different.

I never thought that being Buddhist meant that we had to lead a life of denial. Being Buddhist though does mean understanding why we might be deliberately seeking out pleasure.

Yes, that seems right to me. Sometimes Buddhism can come across as pleasure-denying but I don't think that is the case and, like you say, it is more about why we crave pleasure as a misguided attempt to find a way out of suffering.

Gassho
Kokuu

[Kokuu]

How hard it is to put all of this into practice when we are running on empty...

This chapter was a bit hard for me because I'm usually "in charge", the only grown up in the room, so the chances of just having fun and finding pleasure for me are slim.
Caregiving has me trapped in the feeling that I am tied at other's whims, that my freedom ends where their needs begin, and their needs seem so endless...
Lately, the moments that I've enjoyed the most have been moments when nobody needs me, no demands, no interruptions, I can do as I please... this may sound super selfish, but it's not, it's mental-health-care

Yes, finding pleasure when we are running on empty can be hard. Parents of young children also find that can be difficult when you are run off your feet attending to the needs of others from waking-up to going to sleep, and it is even harder when you combine that care-giving role with also being sick. I think you are totally right in seeing those demand-free free as really important as they are your opportunity to recharge so that you can be there again when the demands start up again.

2. How do you feel when you deliberately seek out pleasure? Do you think of it somehow being 'not Buddhist'?

Like Brett said
If I go seeking, then I setup expectations that I can let myself down on. Instead I simply to prefer to setup a situation in which joy or pleasure can be possible and then just go with the flow
This way I am more able to enjoy whatever is possible, whether that is 5 minutes or 2 hours of a fun activity, which can be as simple as reading a book or watching a movie, no need for anything big.

I don't worry about being a good Buddhist, or a bad one. I am the Buddhist that I can be at any particular moment, I try to stay present, "awake to the moment" as much as it is possible for me at any given time. Seeking pleasure can also be a part of the practice, if we are aware of what we are choosing to do at the same time.

I really like "I am the Buddhist that I can be at any particular moment"! That seems like a great attitude and acknowledges the reality of our humanity.


Gassho
Kokuu

[Kokuu]

1. Where do you find pleasure in your life, especially pleasures of the body?

Mindful pleasure I find it in warm showers, chocolate, feeling the sun rays on my skin, generally moderated warm. I can think about those at the moment.

Yes, those are great things!

2. How do you feel when you deliberately seek out pleasure? Do you think of it somehow being 'not Buddhist'?

I feel guilt some times, most likely due to some trauma. More than not Buddhist is maybe a feeling of not worth the nourishment.

It was quite insightful when she says:

It's not the original decision to change something about yourself that becomes the problem; it's your attachment to the outcome
and

When you do prefer one state of mind over another, whether it's pleasure or pain, you lose your capacity to be present in the moment
As you once told me that the aversion of pain comes from that feeling that it will stay forever with me. Here practice and paying attention to the present experience is essential. But how I see it is that we distract ourselves from being present, therefore we can't pay attention towards what we are trying to numb. A loop hole, ultimately, but every moment we have the opportunity to be aware and start over.

I can understand the guilt, Kaitan, and it is good that you can acknowledge that it is there and just receive it. What arises is just what arises.

And, yes, every moment is an opportunity just to be intimate with what is happening.

With that in mind I really like this verse from Xuedou Zhongxian that Dogen quotes in the Tenzo-kyokun (Instructions for the Zen Cook):

As the night deepens,
the moon brightens over the ocean.
The black dragon's jewel
is found in every wave.
Looking for the moon,
it is here in this wave
and the next.

The moon is our awakening to reality itself, and it is there in each moment.


Gassho
Kokuu

[Shōnin Risa Bear]

I have begun to be the recipient of intermittent caregiving, and the pleasure I find in being brought a treat or coffee by my son, or a glass of water by my spouse, feels expansive, like ripples out to and beyond the scope of the known universe. Notably, much of this pleasure is in seeing that this gives THEM pleasure. It is fleeting and yet sets the tone for a good day.

gassho
ds :sitting interpenetrating napping, lah interpenetrating being lahed.

[Kaitan]

Yes, those are great things!




I can understand the guilt, Kaitan, and it is good that you can acknowledge that it is there and just receive it. What arises is just what arises.

And, yes, every moment is an opportunity just to be intimate with what is happening.

With that in mind I really like this verse from Xuedou Zhongxian that Dogen quotes in the Tenzo-kyokun (Instructions for the Zen Cook):

As the night deepens,
the moon brightens over the ocean.
The black dragon's jewel
is found in every wave.
Looking for the moon,
it is here in this wave
and the next.

The moon is our awakening to reality itself, and it is there in each moment.


Gassho
Kokuu

The guest house

By Rumi


"This being human is a guest house.
Every morning a new arrival.

A joy, a depression, a meanness,
some momentary awareness comes
as an unexpected visitor.

Welcome and entertain them all!
Even if they’re a crowd of sorrows,
who violently sweep your house
empty of its furniture,
still, treat each guest honorably.
He may be clearing you out
for some new delight.

The dark thought, the shame, the malice,
meet them at the door laughing,
and invite them in.

Be grateful for whoever comes,
because each has been sent
as a guide from beyond."

Gasshō

stlah, Kaitan

[Kokuu]

I have begun to be the recipient of intermittent caregiving, and the pleasure I find in being brought a treat or coffee by my son, or a glass of water by my spouse, feels expansive, like ripples out to and beyond the scope of the known universe. Notably, much of this pleasure is in seeing that this gives THEM pleasure. It is fleeting and yet sets the tone for a good day.

Lovely We often talk about generosity (dana), and being the recipient allows for the generosity. Sometimes we are on one side, sometimes the other, and I am so glad you can enjoy taking the pleasure in the pleasure it brings to your intermittent caregivers to give.

[Kokuu]

Thank you, Kaitan! That is such a lovely poem.

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday/lah-