'The ZEN of EVERYTHING! Podcast' ... Episode 35 ... Karma

[Jundo]

Episode 35 ... Karma

Good karma, bad karma, everyone knows about karma, right? Jundo and Kirk discuss what karma means, and how you count your karma points.

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Gassho, Jundo

SatTodayLAH

[Shoki]

I constantly read and hear karma being interpreted, by people who do no kind of practice, as being some kind of simplistic, cosmic, mystical, vengeful form of justice to reward and punish (whoa, bad karma, man). When I try to explain that it is not really that, I usually get disagreement and confusion. I'm not sure how to respond or even if I should bother.

Gassho
ST-lah
Shoki

[Bokucho]

I constantly read and hear karma being interpreted, by people who do no kind of practice, as being some kind of simplistic, cosmic, mystical, vengeful form of justice to reward and punish (whoa, bad karma, man). When I try to explain that it is not really that, I usually get disagreement and confusion. I'm not sure how to respond or even if I should bother.

Gassho
ST-lah
Shoki

Ah it's always interesting to hear certain things from non-Buddhists, karma misunderstandings being a big one. The one that gets to me sometimes is "Buddha? The fat guy?"

Gassho,

Josh
SatToday/LaH

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

[Washin]

Excellent! Thank you

Gassho,
Washin
stlah

[Risho]

Thank you

Gassho

Risho
-stlah

[Inshin]

After listening to this podcast and last Zazenkai talk I keep wondering about "intention" and if it really matters that much. There's a saying that the foundations of hell are laid in good intentions. Sorry to be bringing up Trump in these heated times (I just find him an excellent example for any type of debate) but suppose his quest for Noble peace prize is motivated by unwholesome intentions, greed and a narcissistic need for power and greatntess. He stops engaging in any international conflict, withdraws the troops, facilities few peace deals, brings some sort of "stability" in the Middle East and even attempts bizarre peace talks with Kim Jong-un. The results of his unwholesome intentions are that in the last four years the world seems to have very few armed conflicts and wars!
How does a person who feeds hungry people out of egoistic intentions to be seen as charitable, compare to someone with pure heart who prays for hungry every day but does little or nothing in action?
If I kill someone by accident the effect is the same as if I murdered someone : the person is dead. My karma will be result of my actions ( do I flee the scene, do I get caught etc.) and psychological response to it, rather than some "higher force" scoring the points for wholesome or unwholesome intentions.

Intentionally went over 3 sentences.
Gassho
Sat

[Jundo]

After listening to this podcast and last Zazenkai talk I keep wondering about "intention" and if it really matters that much. There's a saying that the foundations of hell are laid in good intentions. Sorry to be bringing up Trump in these heated times (I just find him an excellent example for any type of debate) but suppose his quest for Noble peace prize is motivated by unwholesome intentions, greed and a narcissistic need for power and greatntess. He stops engaging in any international conflict, withdraws the troops, facilities few peace deals, brings some sort of "stability" in the Middle East and even attempts bizarre peace talks with Kim Jong-un. The results of his unwholesome intentions are that in the last four years the world seems to have very few armed conflicts and wars!
How does a person who feeds hungry people out of egoistic intentions to be seen as charitable, compare to someone with pure heart who prays for hungry every day but does little or nothing in action?
If I kill someone by accident the effect is the same as if I murdered someone : the person is dead. My karma will be result of my actions ( do I flee the scene, do I get caught etc.) and psychological response to it, rather than some "higher force" scoring the points for wholesome or unwholesome intentions.

Intentionally went over 3 sentences.
Gassho
Sat

Ah, there is a difference between "effects" in general and personal Karmic "effects" in traditional Buddhism. Only the latter determines one's personal rebirth stream, and that is very different from just general effects on others in the world. So, if I kill someone by accident, the person is dead but it does not impact my rebirth. If I save someone somehow due to greed and narcissism, that may have positive effects in the world, but perhaps some negative effects on my rebirth stream.

So, how to relate that to this life, especially for those of us who are rather ambivalent about the question of effects on any future lives?

Well, I would say that intent still counts. How? It is good that I saved someone or ended a war, but would it not be better for my own heart if I did so with good intentions, and not out of greed and narcissism? The effects in the world are the same, but the difference in intent still makes a big difference on the personal "hells" within my own heart. Likewise (just as in the civil and criminal law), if I do something by accident (e.g., kill someone by accidently and unintentionally knocking over a stone onto their head), it is not the same responsibility as if I picked up the stone and hit them in anger. The effect (death) is just the same, but the implications for the "hells" burning in my own heart which caused the effect are very different. Thus, intentions on the part of the acting party are still important.

Yes, I would like wars ended and peace in the world no matter the politician's reasons for doing so. However, in my concern for the politician's heart and inner peace, I would prefer (if given a choice) that the politician act for right reasons within herself.

I intended to run over 3 sentences, but I hope it was for good effect.

Gassho, Jundo

STLah