Concern

[Owndrum]

Hi Jundo & Taigu,
Just writing to make sure you are OK! Haven't seen a teaching for a while i am hoping nothing is
wrong with you or your families.

Also writing to ask you a question re the nature of enlightenment, i am grateful for your profound teachings
and i'm aware that you probably have answered this before, but still here goes.

I am beginning to comprehend as far as i'm capable of, that the "One Mind", Alaya etc, is of itself ineffable and
intrinsically ungraspable & that nothing in the dualistic world can come close to a description of it. But i wonder
wether you can tell me if awakening to it as our true nature leads us to a conscious awareness of it, either as a
separate or unified consciousness. The Buddha in some of his discourses appears to be saying that as a Tathagata
he is able to visit myriad "Buddha Lands" along with other Tathagata's and help other beings, etc. I can't quite
grasp (unfortunate word) the contradiction between "ultimately there are no beings to save" & a description of
Tathagata's appearing to have a separate conscious awareness within the "One Mind" and utilising a will to intercede
on behalf of all sentient beings. Maybe i am trying to ask clumsily, wether or not there is a conscious awareness within
Alaya,and that my head is exploding thinking about it!!!!

Gassho
Owndrum :?

[mrsedwards]

Jundo did his weekly sit last week and is planning one for Sat morning Japan time.
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=4815

[mrsedwards]

I posted too fast ha ha. But I think they have been visible, just have to look in the right places :wink:

[Jundo]

Hi "Owndrum",

If their is no "self" who owns that drum, who is beating it?! 8)

I am beginning to comprehend as far as i'm capable of, that the "One Mind", Alaya etc, is of itself ineffable and
intrinsically ungraspable & that nothing in the dualistic world can come close to a description of it. But i wonder
wether you can tell me if awakening to it as our true nature leads us to a conscious awareness of it, either as a
separate or unified consciousness.

Ah, well, there is this something ineffable found by us in this Path ("found" though right here all along, and "us" all along too ... so ultimately "non-found") ... and throughout the centuries, human beings have tried to put some name on this experience of the ineffable ... Wholeness, Emptiness, One Mind, Alaya-vjnana, Tathagata-garbha, Dharmakaya, Buddha (big "B"). Hard to name, hard to image ... but a rose by any other name.

In our way, this is non-found in goalless Shikantaza ... dropping thought of finding or not finding ... pouring all into Wholeness, Emptiness ... the Nameless Rose.

However, in our Way ... non-finding this ineffable non-Rose is only half the battle (just one side of a no sided coin!) ... the Whole is found in seeing how simultaneously 'tis this "dualistic world all along" too"! So, we might say "nothing in the dualistic world can come close to a description of it" and "this dualistic world is nothing but its clear voice all along!" Something like that.

True "unified consciousness" has endless room for the 10,000,000,000,000 sometimes beautiful, sometimes ugly broken pieces of life. It is found in and as the gorgeous rose petals and the sharp thorns too.

We had a thread just recently on similar topics ...

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4763

The Buddha in some of his discourses appears to be saying that as a Tathagata
he is able to visit myriad "Buddha Lands" along with other Tathagata's and help other beings, etc. I can't quite
grasp (unfortunate word) the contradiction between "ultimately there are no beings to save" & a description of
Tathagata's appearing to have a separate conscious awareness within the "One Mind" and utilising a will to intercede
on behalf of all sentient beings. Maybe i am trying to ask clumsily, wether or not there is a conscious awareness within
Alaya,and that my head is exploding thinking about it!!!!

There are no "sentient beings in need of saving" ... from an ultimate Buddhist perspective, this is true. Encountering this ineffable ... Wholeness, Emptiness, Buddha ... is encountering that nothing was lacking from the start, nothing separate or broken!

Yet ... we must save the sentient beings, "all the broken people" feeling separation and lack from a relative Buddhist perspective ... primarily by showing them that ... from an ultimate perspective, there are "no sentient beings", nothing lacking, separate or broken. :shock: The experience of "separate, lacking, broken and even 'self'" is something of a dream.

On the other hand ... it is our dream, so dream it well! The "nothing lacking" is found both in the heart of lack or no lack ... and so is Non-Lack! :shock: It is not an escape from this imprisoning world, even as one is Free Free Free!

Something like that.

People over the centuries made up all kinds of wonderful, imaginative, fantastic descriptions for these wonderful ... yet simple ... Truths. These human authors wrote Sutra stories to try to capture these perspectives through fable and imagery. They spoke of a level of Buddha so ultimate that there is no body in need of saving ... so no need to even bother. They spoke of other levels of Buddha who came "down to earth" to show us poor deluded being that fact. So they made incredible images, with all the Hollywood Special Effects, of countless Buddhas traveling through countless Buddha lands to teach us these simple ... wonderful ... Truths.

Gassho, Jundo

[Jundo]

Hi Jundo & Taigu,
Just writing to make sure you are OK! Haven't seen a teaching for a while i am hoping nothing is
wrong with you or your families.

All is fine. Thank you.

But, as a matter of fact, I will soon post a Sit-a-Long for the first day of April that will be so earth shaking, shocking .... that IT MAY MEAN THE END OF TREELEAF SANGHA AS WE KNOW IT! :shock:

In fact, it may even be ...

....................... THE END OF TREELEAF SANGHA!!!! :cry:


Look for that sit-a-long talk tomorrow!

Gassho, J

[Owndrum]

Ask not who beats the drum, but for whom the drum beats!!!

Thanks Jundo for the time and effort taken to reply to my questions.

I will attempt to live more from the heart than the head, as i have a
feeling thats where "IT" resonates.

Thanks for the other replies too!

Gassho
To you all

Owndrum :lol:

[ZenHarmony]

Hmmmm...

What is, was, and ever shall be,
Worlds without end

Lisa