Book of equanimity

[Taigu]

Hi everybody,

I am going to ask all my students to take part to the bookclub on the book of equanimity. Shohei, Myozan, Myoku, Dokan, Jinyu should get a copy. Anybody else willing to interact and study with me is invited to show up, now. Dokusan will be based on this book and your understanding will be challenged! In the light of our last winter retreat i will raise my level of expectation, and won t let you get away with much. We will work on the resonnance of each koan in every day life and you will have to get it out of your guts ( not your head! ).

I also expect you to dig the shobogenzo to find Dogen s take of these pearls.

Dragons and elephants, you are now invited in!


Gassho


Taigu

[Dokan]

Gassho!

Dokan

Sent from my SGH-I897 using Tapatalk

[Shujin]

Book ordered.

_/|_

[Ryumon]

Do you mean that we'll be tested? Eek! I haven't been tested on anything (other than life) in ages...

I'm moving next Tuesday, but I already have the book, and am looking forward to taking part.

[Jinyu]

OK, lets do that.
Thank you for the Challenge! And lets the "wild surgery" of words begin! Mouahhahahha... :twisted:

More seriously, I'll get it via amazon or something like that because the thing is not findable in bookshops here, but it shouldn't take too long! :wink:

Have a very nice day everyone!
deep gassho,
Jinyu

[Ryumon]

Jinyu,

I got mine from Book Depository (http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/). (No affiliation, just a satisfied customer.) They have free shipping around the world, and their prices are often lower than Amazon FR. (I'm in France.)

[Kaishin]

Anybody else willing to interact and study with me is invited to show up, now.

Willing. Scared... but willing :wink:

Will order the book shortly.

[Jiken]

Got the book on Kindle. Ready to go

[andyZ]

I was going to ask in another thread what is the use of just reading and discussing a koan?…Thank you Taigu for telling us that it's not going to be just a discussion. I heard that sometimes it takes years for a student to crack a koan. Got my book in the mail today. This one has 100 of them

[Kaishin]

what is the use of just reading and discussing a koan?…

Isn't that more the Soto style though? Not screaming MUUUUUUUUUUUUUU at your sensei, but rather feeling how it pervades everyday life, which might arise from discussions. I don't know.

[andyZ]

but rather feeling how it pervades everyday life, which might arise from discussions. I don't know.

Matto,
That's exactly my point and that's what Taigu said in his post.

[Kaishin]

but rather feeling how it pervades everyday life, which might arise from discussions. I don't know.

Matto,
That's exactly my point and that's what Taigu said in his post.

My understanding was that Soto doesn't have the "sanzen" style where a student presents his koan understanding to the roshi. Rather, koans are discussed more informally, incorporated into dharma talks, etc. I guess I thought when you said "what's the point of just discussing," my reaction was "isn't that the Soto way?" Seemed like Taigu's invitation for "sanzen" was more of a Rinzai style. Sorry maybe this makes even less sense :P

[Dokan]

Seemed like Taigu's invitation for "sanzen" was more of a Rinzai style. Sorry maybe this makes even less sense :P

Heh! Seems to me like maybe it's being over analysed. I'm fairly certain that Taigu will use the material to see how we apply these koans to our lives. Not as qualification of our intellectual understanding, but as an application rather. I don't believe it's the same as the formal ladder-type system found in Rinzai. But of course I defer to Taigu.

Gassho,

Dokan

[RichardH]

Sounds good.

[Kaishin]

Seemed like Taigu's invitation for "sanzen" was more of a Rinzai style. Sorry maybe this makes even less sense :P

Heh! Seems to me like maybe it's being over analysed. I'm fairly certain that Taigu will use the material to see how we apply these koans to our lives. Not as qualification of our intellectual understanding, but as an application rather. I don't believe it's the same as the formal ladder-type system found in Rinzai. But of course I defer to Taigu.

Gassho,

Dokan

Ah, that makes more sense, yes.

Edit: From the book's introduction:

This collection of koans is highly revered in the Soto School although they are not approached in the same way as koans are in the Rinzai School, which requires face-to-face presentation with one's teacher. In the Soto School, the koans are approached more as liturgy to be stuided and discussed.

[Myozan Kodo]

Ready!

[Yugen]

I accept the invitation, Thank you.

Gassho,
Yugen

[Jundo]

I was going to ask in another thread what is the use of just reading and discussing a koan?…Thank you Taigu for telling us that it's not going to be just a discussion. I heard that sometimes it takes years for a student to crack a koan. Got my book in the mail today. This one has 100 of them

If one thinks a reading is just words, and a discussion is just chewing the fat ... then one misses the sharp point that cuts through delusion. Neither a matter of words or silence ... but the Silence that Sings through the Heart of Life.

Nor is it a puzzle to crack, or weird gestures in the air, mysterious words and actions or MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOing like an old cow (though one certainly can MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO if one's heart needs to) ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjyqGnWGftE&feature=related[/video]] ... re=related

Let's see how it goes, don't jump to assumptions and conclusions about how it is supposed to be or the ways a Koan should be handled.

Koans are "cracked" in 1000 instants, practiced for life.

Gassho, J

[Rimon]

Me joins too.

Gassho

Rimon

[Taigu]

Hi everybody,

People that are familiar with my one to one teaching know that I don't act like a rinzai roshi, shout or do mysterious things. On top of that, I am not qualified to guide anybody in koan study, having no experience of doing it myself. So...What's the heck?!!!
We are not going to mimick or copy the Rinzai way. We are going to see how clearly the case is living in our life, how dark or bright it is. How do we manifest our understanding in a dynamic way bypassing the intellectual way to cuts one into two. So it is not going to be about philosophy, theory, esoteric teachings...

Because the answer is overwhelmingly enthusiastic and my time is extremely limited, I am going to have to sort things out, do a lot of planning and give priority to my closest students. One thing for sure, I won t put up anymore with people telling me they will make it and finding myself on the other side of the globe wasting the freetime I have with a ghost. I might have to start the process in three months time when loosing a big chunck of my workload, I shall have more time.

Thank you all.


gassho



Taigu

[Seiryu]

sounds like a good idea to me...

[Myoku]

Gassho Taigu, everyone,
ordered the book.
Myoku

[andyZ]

I was going to ask in another thread what is the use of just reading and discussing a koan?…Thank you Taigu for telling us that it's not going to be just a discussion. I heard that sometimes it takes years for a student to crack a koan. Got my book in the mail today. This one has 100 of them

If one thinks a reading is just words, and a discussion is just chewing the fat ... then one misses the sharp point that cuts through delusion. Neither a matter of words or silence ... but the Silence that Sings through the Heart of Life.

Nor is it a puzzle to crack, or weird gestures in the air, mysterious words and actions or MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOing like an old cow (though one certainly can MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO if one's heart needs to) ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjyqGnWGftE&feature=related[/video]] ... re=related

Let's see how it goes, don't jump to assumptions and conclusions about how it is supposed to be or the ways a Koan should be handled.

Koans are "cracked" in 1000 instants, practiced for life.

Gassho, J

Yes, Jundo, you’re absolutely right. From all the reading that I’ve done on koans I definitely did form an idea of what the koan study “supposed” to be like. I know that Dogen used koans in his teaching but it was probably different from rinzai approach of sitting and living with a koan. It would be interesting to learn more about it. As you mentioned many times there’re many ways up that mountain.

[Jinyu]

Hi

Why do we need to study any koan? we have the big, tremendous genjokoan of daily life, isn't that what Dogen said... :mrgreen: OK OK I'm out... :roll:

More seriously, I may have understood wrongly but, did Taigu said he will start in 3 months or so?
Just ordered the book by the way .

Have a very nice day everyone,
deep gassho,
Jinyu

[Jundo]

Hi

Why do we need to study any koan? we have the big, tremendous genjokoan of daily life, isn't that what Dogen said... :mrgreen: OK OK I'm out... :roll:

Yes, Dogen spoke of this very life manifesting in 10,000 ways as the Genjo Koan ... the Fundamental Point Actualizing, Reality Realized, the Matter at Hand.

But Dogen's Shobogenzo and other writings and talks are wall-to-wall chock full of the "classic Koans", passages from Sutras and the like page after page ... though Dogen would play each like a Jazz musician bends and spins a "standard tune", bringing new life and new meanings to the old songs.

viewtopic.php?p=42367#p42367

Dogen was a big fan of both the Book of Equanimity and the Blue Cliff Record, and had his own notebook of Koans he collected himself called the "Shinji Shobogenzo" with many of the same Koans as those collections.

But, yes, it seems that he employed the Koans to teach and express his music, the "sound" of Buddhism he heard with his eyes. He did not use them in the Rinzai way as an object of focus or inspection during seated Zazen.

Gassho, J

[Madrone]

Book ordered. Wife rolling her eyes at one more buddhism book. Thanks for the tip about bookdepository, kirkmc.

Let's see what happens.

Madrone.

[bcaruthers]

Just ordered mine for the Nook. I can't wait to discuss the book.

Gassho,

Bryan

[Omoi Otoshi]

Yup, ordered the book! (And Dewdrops on a Lotus Leaf, poems by Ryokan! Couldn't resist it!)

/Pontus

[RichardH]

Wife rolling her eyes at one more buddhism book. .

:lol:

[Dojin]

I have found this online version

http://www.thezensite.com/ZenTeachings/ ... yoroku.pdf

is it any good?
can i use it?

Gassho, Dojin.

[chessie]

Hello Dojin
Thank you for the link to the zensite. This will be good to read, however Jundo said on another thread that they want us to get the 'Wick' commentary so that we all have the same version: (Jundo's quote below)

There are other translations available, by Thomas Cleary and others. However, even if you have one of those already, I ask you to find the edition by Rev. Wick, as the life-filled commentaries by him will be at the heart of our reflections.

End quote.

Gassho, Ann

[Geika]

...http://www.thezensite.com/ZenTeachings/ ... yoroku.pdf

is it any good?
can i use it?...

Though I am not an official student of Taigu's, I would like to join in the reading with the Sangha just for the sake of joining, and I can't easily afford much right now. So, if this is a useable version, I would like to know as well.

Wife rolling her eyes at one more buddhism book. .

Can't seem to get enough, can we?

[Jundo]

Hi,

Yes, we will be working with Rev. Shishin Wicks priceless commentaries. So, I do ask folks to find his book.

Gassho, Jundo

[Omoi Otoshi]

I can't easily afford much right now.

Are you a university student? The University of San Diego has it:
http://sally.sandiego.edu/search~S9?/aW ... ry+shishin

/Pontus

[chessie]

Talk about having too many books...I went to buy this on my Nook, only to find out that I already owned it and didn't even know it!

I want to participate in this reading, and I'll try very hard not to be one of Taigu's annoying ghosts, this time.

I also have a Dogen/Loori book, the Dharma Eye, which has at the end a cross-reference showing where the koans are tied to which chapter in Shobogenzo. Is it cheating if I try to share this? Or does that go against Taigu's mandate that we dig or ourselves to find the gold? (trying to stay out of trouble, at least in the beginning).

Ann

[Nenka]

Nor is it a puzzle to crack, or weird gestures in the air, mysterious words and actions or MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOing like an old cow (though one certainly can MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO if one's heart needs to) ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjyqGnWGftE&feature=related[/video]] ... re=related

:shock:

Jeez, I feel like a peeping tom who just sat in the bushes and watched something I wasn't supposed to. Feels really weird to watch somebody's dokusan--assuming that's what it was. I'm not sure what the heck was going on!

Jen

[Nindo]

Nor is it a puzzle to crack, or weird gestures in the air, mysterious words and actions or MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOing like an old cow (though one certainly can MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO if one's heart needs to) ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjyqGnWGftE&feature=related[/video]] ... re=related

:shock:

Jeez, I feel like a peeping tom who just sat in the bushes and watched something I wasn't supposed to. Feels really weird to watch somebody's dokusan--assuming that's what it was. I'm not sure what the heck was going on!

Jen

I'm also not comfortable with having fun poked at other people's dokusan or whatever form of practice, if it was meant in that way. I've sat in the dokusan line or the zendo and heard all kinds of weird things going on. It's none of our business, though. For the person involved, it's a serious matter.

[Hogen]

Picking this one up now. Lookin forward to the club!!

[Geika]

I can't easily afford much right now.

Are you a university student? The University of San Diego has it:
http://sally.sandiego.edu/search~S9?/aW ... ry+shishin

/Pontus

Wish I was... but I'll be getting the book. =)