Spiders and other creepy crawlers

[bcaruthers]

One of the precepts talks about not killing, I was wondering if this also applies to spiders and insects? My wife hates spiders and every time she sees one she wants me to kill it, but I am not sure if that is the right thing to do or not. The other day I saw a spider in the bathroom and decided to have it crawl on a paper towel and take it outside to avoid feeling guilty and to avoid any negative karma from killing it. How do some of you feel about taking the life of spiders and insects?

Gassho,
Bryan

[Undo]

I have 50 or 60 tarantulas, scorpions and a few other bugs somy view maybe a little off centre
Spiders do a good job in keeping other insect populations in the house down. if somone is phobic or uncomfortable with them, then a good compromise would be to grab a glass and piece of paper and take them outside ( the spider that is ).
maybe another solution would be to help your wife with her fear and live and let live?

[Jundo]

Hi Guys,

This comes up from time to time ... especially during the summer months, for some reason. :shock:

Here is what I usually say ...

Traditionally, Buddhism has made a distinction between sentient life and other insentient life forms. The border between "sentience" and "insentience" is, of course, hard to set precisely (and, in a larger sense, some teachers such as Master Dogen included even mountains and trees and roof tiles as "sentient life"), but we generally do not treat insects with the same weight as more self aware creatures. That does not mean, too, that we are not respectful of all life.

I have written in the past about how this issue came up at Treeleaf Japan, a group of all wooden buildings, when we had termites ...

We also faced this when Treeleaf Japan ... a completely wooden building (built without nails, just joined wood beams) ... was infested with termites ...

A Google search on the subject, and talking to some other Buddhist clergy in various traditions, turned up the fact that (as I suspected), infested wooden Buddhist temples will take countermeasures ... though sometimes followed by a memorial service or the like for the little lives taken (and although some claim not too, and that good chanting is enough to chase the bugs away ... I tried that, no luck.) ...

The following was also typical advice, and I gave it a try ...

In the area of prohibitions against killing, one laywoman asked, "What should we do if there are mice and termites at home?" Dharma Master Heng Lyu answered, "You first post a notice asking them to leave. Next, you use insect repellants to chase them out. Avoid insecticides because you want to avoid the karma of killing."

One layman asked, "How do you avoid harming living beings while mowing the lawn?"

Dharma Master Heng Lyu said, "You would first post a notice to let the small creatures know that it's best to move, then mow the lawn. While you're mowing the lawn, recite the Great Compassion Mantra at the same time."

Excerpted from the article, "The City of Ten Thousand Buddhas Holds First Transmission of the Lay Bodhisattva Precepts in the New Millenium", on page 49 of the October 2000 issue (volume 31, series 73) of the Vajra Bodhi Sea.

And, of course, this is the famous "Dalai Lama kills the Mosquito" video ...



I really feel the weight of having to kill those termites ... but somehow, whenever there is an earthquake and the heavy roof timbers start shaking over my family's heads ... I know it was necessary. That is the Koan.

Gassho, Jundo

[Tb]

Hi.

Yes, if you need to kill it, kill it.
If you don't, don't.

The precept of not killing, my my humble view, is all about intention.
There is some difference between killing, although they are all killing, a mosquito absentmindedly while it is buzzing around you, or with a mosquitolamp or deliberately pulling one wing out at a time...

Also, if possible, it might be good to help the spiders outdoors, if indoor, as they do alot of good.
Because in my sense, some people step into cowdung, other use it for fertilizer.
And they might be great help out there, as i hear they eat a lot of mosquitos...

That being said, If there were giant ones, Like in the movie Giant spider invasion, and they were attacking me, i wouldnt hesitate to break an precept...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Giant ... vasion.jpg

Mtfbwy
Fugen

[Ryumon]

We have a fair number of spiders who have residence in our home. However, when we see them, we pick them up by covering them with a cup, then sliding a piece of cardboard under the upside-down cup, then tossing them out the window. Sometimes they can be very big. However, we know that, a) we don't want to kill them, and b) they're actually good to have around, because the eat other insects.

This said, a book by Douglas Hofstadter, I Am a Strange Loop, pointed out why mosquitoes and other insects are not sentient, and don't have conscience...

[Jundo]

... they're actually good to have around, because the eat other insects.

...

Ah, sending out these hired killers to do your dirty work for you? 8)

[KellyRok]

Hello all,

I don't like spiders...I mean I REALLY don't like them. But, I don't like to kill them either - I mean it's not their fault that I have a fear of them. I always make an effort to rescue them and put them outside, as I do with all bugs. It is good that I have boys, because they like to help with this .

Having said this, we decided to have a unique pet. He is a 6 month old, bearded dragon lizard. He is already 14 inches long and will grow to be about 2 feet when he is full grown. His health and wellness depends on eating live food, mainly insects (crickets). Therefore, we have to buy crickets or worms, feed them a vitamin mixture to keep them healthy, in order to feed them to our lizard. At first, I had a really rough time with this. But as my husband pointed out, that in the wild, these lizards hunt out and eat these insects for survival. So in a sense we are sacrificing the life of the bugs for the life of our family pet...and that he would have done that for himself if he were born in the wild anyway. Now, I say a little prayer/metta verse for the crickets before feeding Charlie, our lizard.

I think intent has a lot to do with it!

Thank you for this thread,
May all beings be free from suffering,

Kelly/Jinmei

[Saijun]

One of the precepts talks about not killing, I was wondering if this also applies to spiders and insects? My wife hates spiders and every time she sees one she wants me to kill it, but I am not sure if that is the right thing to do or not. The other day I saw a spider in the bathroom and decided to have it crawl on a paper towel and take it outside to avoid feeling guilty and to avoid any negative karma from killing it. How do some of you feel about taking the life of spiders and insects?

Gassho,
Bryan

Hello Bryan,

I'm going to come off as the harsh fundamentalist Buddhist on this one. While it's true that (as I recall) traditionally killing an animal was a lesser offense than killing a human, it is still an offense. Killing is still killing. I am absolutely terrified of spiders (and centipedes, we have those too), but when I come across one in the house, it's the "paper and cup" trick every time. Then I run screaming back into the house.

However, it's not that I refrain from killing out of a sense of guilt or fear of karmaic punishment; it's a duty. I've taken Bodhisattva vows, and vows I do not take lightly. By choosing, moment by moment, to honor those sixteen precepts and four great vows, I (in my own small way) am granting unconditional protection to all sentient beings, if only from myself and my own ignorance and unskillful action.

I, at this moment, cannot imagine a scenario where killing is the most skillful action. If one has the power to kill, one also has the power to save a life. If one can kill, one can incapacitate. And it's in dancing carefully along that thin line that beings are saved and the Buddha-Way is realized.

However, that is just my view, and not a terribly popular one I'm finding out. I think that ultimately each one of us starts where we are, and works with our circumstances as best we can. Of course there will be stumbles along the way, but we just have to get up and keep going. Example: I have trouble keeping my rampant sarcasm from sneaking into conversations at inopportune times. That's what gives me the most fits right now.

Metta and Gassho,

Saijun

EDIT: The first draft, upon a second reading, made it sound like I implying that my way was *THE* way. Oops and sorry ops:

[Kaishin]

My wife is deathly afraid of spiders. I have been ordered by my wife to kill spiders on sight. I usually do, but sometimes I let them go (like if it's the middle of the night and I know it will be out of sight by morning...). Do I want the spider to live or do I want my wife not to have a severe panic attack? Choices, choices.

You're not going to find a detailed list of what's OK to kill and what's not. That's not what the precepts are about. Even the Dalai Lama eats meat.

Some spiders get the squish, some get the scoop. I guess just be mindful. It is impossible not to kill. Even walking across your yard, things will die. If you say, that is unintentional! I say, you know that walking across the yard will result in bugs dying, yet you still do it, so it IS intentional! You see the traps?

We've got hunters and vegans here, and all of them are correct Probably the inevitable vegetarian flamewar will commence soon! :mrgreen:

[Saijun]

We've got hunters and vegans here, and all of them are correct Probably the inevitable vegetarian flamewar will commence soon! :mrgreen:

Hello Matt,

I'd like to think (hope) that there is enough mutual goodwill here to prevent any debate or discussion (even a heated one) from denigrating into a flamewar. What's that simile? Stones polishing each other, isn't it?

Metta and Gassho,

Saijun

[Hoyu]

Hi All,

I am always faced with much difficulty when it comes to the taking of life of any kind. Most of the time I go out of my way to avoid doing it. I feel that life of any size is a sacred gift and try to avoid placing it into categories of worth. My usual "weapon" is the old cup and cardboard trick many others here have mentioned. But sometimes the weapon becomes lethal. This is one ocassion I went against my normal practice of sparing life whenever possible.

Last summer my son was sitting on the lawn playing while I was chatting with the neighbor. After a few minutes he stood up and started screaming. Here he was full of aggressive biting ants. I swatted them off him, got into the house, and cleaned him up. Now I was faced with the difficult task of deciding what to do about the ant mound. I had known they were in the lawn but let them be because I didn't want to bother them. In light of them attacking my son I declared war! However I knew very well that they were doing exactly the same thing as me! When my son sat on or near their hill they were also defending against an attack. They have children too! Even though my son was just sitting there peacefully how would they be able to know his intent? I really was able to empathize with them but still had to make a decision. Needless to say that they lost in the end

Gassho,
John

[Kaishin]

We've got hunters and vegans here, and all of them are correct Probably the inevitable vegetarian flamewar will commence soon! :mrgreen:

Hello Matt,

I'd like to think (hope) that there is enough mutual goodwill here to prevent any debate or discussion (even a heated one) from denigrating into a flamewar. What's that simile? Stones polishing each other, isn't it?

Metta and Gassho,

Saijun

Only joking! I would hope for polishing stones here as well.

[Dokan]

However, that is just my view, and not a terribly popular one I'm finding out.

I share your views. When I read your post I felt as if you were speaking my heart/mind. So much so I shared it with my wife. She is like you with spiders and it took a while before shed take a backwards step and scream for me to come escort the guests out. Now she even does it herself.

Gassho

S

[Jundo]

I'm going to come off as the harsh fundamentalist Buddhist on this one. While it's true that (as I recall) traditionally killing an animal was a lesser offense than killing a human, it is still an offense. Killing is still killing. I am absolutely terrified of spiders (and centipedes, we have those too), but when I come across one in the house, it's the "paper and cup" trick every time. Then I run screaming back into the house.

However, it's not that I refrain from killing out of a sense of guilt or fear of karmaic punishment; it's a duty. I've taken Bodhisattva vows, and vows I do not take lightly. By choosing, moment by moment, to honor those sixteen precepts and four great vows, I (in my own small way) am granting unconditional protection to all sentient beings, if only from myself and my own ignorance and unskillful action.

Hi Saijun,

This is really something that we will get into a bit more during Jukai preparations, when we 'wrestle' with the Precepts a bit ... find how they fit in our life. Many views on these things, and I dare say, "many 'right views'", not only one (many 'wrong and harmful' views too, not only one).

But just let me ask you a question:

Then, how would you have handled the termites in our little wooden home if the only option were killing (or moving), assuming there were no other options (such as some new discovery in termite removal)? How would you handle biting spiders in the room of your infant son if you could not catch them all, or chase them all away?

This is where the Precepts get a little "rubber meets the road" to the complexities of life.

My wife and I also reach for the paper cup, and remove the 'little crawling Buddhas' to the outdoors when we can.

Gassho, J

PS - We do not have 'flame wars' and the like at Treeleaf.

[Kaishin]

Let me add that with spiders at least, if you want them to live you should NOT throw them outside. Maybe put them out in the garage. By putting them outside, there's a good chance you are just killing them anyway!!!

http://www.burkemuseum.org/spidermyth/myths/comein.html

[Taylor]

Let me add that with spiders at least, if you want them to live you should NOT throw them outside. Maybe put them out in the garage. By putting them outside, there's a good chance you are just killing them anyway!!!

http://www.burkemuseum.org/spidermyth/myths/comein.html

Beat me to this one! Haha

Anyways, the precepts are just one of the many faces of our "Genjokoan", if you will (I recently went on a bit of spiritual bender, running around looking for "something" so play along for a bit please :P)

As far as my understanding, or lack there of, is concerned the koan of our life is exactly what you're referring to here. Yes, technically we do not kill. Yet we kill to eat. Just because a cabbage doesn't scream doesn't mean it enjoy's being wrenched from the soil. No to mention the mice and insects in our wheat and blah blah blah...

If you're looking for an answer to this question, no one (not even the mighty Jundo and Taigu :P) can give it to you. It's your life to lead based on the hard and fast guidelines of the precepts. There are no commandments here to break. Only a fluid life that requires a fluid response.

Gassho,
Myoken (Taylor)

[bcaruthers]

Thank you all for your replies. It appears that the answer to the question as to kill or not to kill depends on how you personally feel and interpret the precepts. If one feels guilty for killing spiders then they should refrain from killing them. If it doesn't bother someone to kill them then that is OK too.

Gassho,
Bryan

[Taylor]

Thank you all for your replies. It appears that the answer to the question as to kill or not to kill depends on how you personally feel and interpret the precepts. If one feels guilty for killing spiders then they should refrain from killing them. If it doesn't bother someone to kill them then that is OK too.

Gassho,
Bryan

Well, maybe! Haha I certainly don't think we should kill things just because it doesn't bother us. To one person killing a fly is no big deal, to another killing a person is no big deal. Cabbage and humans, life and life. Where do we equate what's "ok"?

Refrain from killing at all costs, really. I think this goes without saying. But if you're about to be bitten by a spider and you kill it while brushing it off, maybe better off? No easy answers here, and they don't fit into any nice boxes.

[Saijun]

I'm going to come off as the harsh fundamentalist Buddhist on this one. While it's true that (as I recall) traditionally killing an animal was a lesser offense than killing a human, it is still an offense. Killing is still killing. I am absolutely terrified of spiders (and centipedes, we have those too), but when I come across one in the house, it's the "paper and cup" trick every time. Then I run screaming back into the house.

However, it's not that I refrain from killing out of a sense of guilt or fear of karmaic punishment; it's a duty. I've taken Bodhisattva vows, and vows I do not take lightly. By choosing, moment by moment, to honor those sixteen precepts and four great vows, I (in my own small way) am granting unconditional protection to all sentient beings, if only from myself and my own ignorance and unskillful action.

Hi Saijun,

This is really something that we will get into a bit more during Jukai preparations, when we 'wrestle' with the Precepts a bit ... find how they fit in our life. Many views on these things, and I dare say, "many 'right views'", not only one (many 'wrong and harmful' views too, not only one).

But just let me ask you a question:

Then, how would you have handled the termites in our little wooden home if the only option were killing (or moving), assuming there were no other options (such as some new discovery in termite removal)? How would you handle biting spiders in the room of your infant son if you could not catch them all, or chase them all away?

This is where the Precepts get a little "rubber meets the road" to the complexities of life.

My wife and I also reach for the paper cup, and remove the 'little crawling Buddhas' to the outdoors when we can.

Gassho, J

PS - We do not have 'flame wars' and the like at Treeleaf.

Hello Jundo,

Having not been in either of those scenarios, anything that I could say would be pure conjecture. However, I do see your point. If preventatives didn't work (lemon oil, vinegar etc. for spiders and orange oil(?) for termites) and there were no other options, then I could see perhaps the inevitability of a bug bomb to protect the other inhabitants.

That having been said, I suppose what would be important for me would be to acknowledge that yes, I was just responsible for the intentional killing of thousands of termites, several spiders, a snake, what have you. So I suppose it's that old question again: "What can I do right now?"

Thank you for bringing that example back to me. Sometimes I need people to snap me out of the "harsh fundamentalist Buddhist" mode. _/_

Let me add that with spiders at least, if you want them to live you should NOT throw them outside. Maybe put them out in the garage. By putting them outside, there's a good chance you are just killing them anyway!!!

http://www.burkemuseum.org/spidermyth/myths/comein.html

Beat me to this one! Haha

Anyways, the precepts are just one of the many faces of our "Genjokoan", if you will (I recently went on a bit of spiritual bender, running around looking for "something" so play along for a bit please :P)

As far as my understanding, or lack there of, is concerned the koan of our life is exactly what you're referring to here. Yes, technically we do not kill. Yet we kill to eat. Just because a cabbage doesn't scream doesn't mean it enjoy's being wrenched from the soil. No to mention the mice and insects in our wheat and blah blah blah...

If you're looking for an answer to this question, no one (not even the mighty Jundo and Taigu :P) can give it to you. It's your life to lead based on the hard and fast guidelines of the precepts. There are no commandments here to break. Only a fluid life that requires a fluid response.

Gassho,
Myoken (Taylor)

Matt and Myoken,

Thank you for sharing this--it is very useful information that I was heretofore unaware of.

Metta and Gassho,

Saijun

[Hoyu]

Let me add that with spiders at least, if you want them to live you should NOT throw them outside. Maybe put them out in the garage. By putting them outside, there's a good chance you are just killing them anyway!!!

http://www.burkemuseum.org/spidermyth/myths/comein.html

Wow! Your post here Matt has made me realize how many spiders I've probably killed by trying not to kill spiders! Thank you for the garage tip

Gassho,
John

P.S. Great work towards saving all sentient beings!

[Hoyu]

If one feels guilty for killing spiders then they should refrain from killing them. If it doesn't bother someone to kill them then that is OK too.

I think that compassion rather than guilt would make a better determining factor to, or not to take a life.

Gassho,
John

[Undo]

Matto wrote:Let me add that with spiders at least, if you want them to live you should NOT throw them outside. Maybe put them out in the garage. By putting them outside, there's a good chance you are just killing them anyway!!!

http://www.burkemuseum.org/spidermyth/myths/comein.html

I'm afraid that article is very misleading. There is no such genus as house spider as such. Some species would prefer certain conditions to live but they are quite variable. The vast majority of spiders would and do live happily outside. The reason more spiders are seen in a house at certain times of the year is because of mating cycles. The males tend to roam about looking for a female and get lost and end up in the house, rather than they choose to live there.
Most spider species have been arround for 200 million years and really are living fossils and more than capable with dealing with nature.

Getting back to the OP. I think a bigger concern with spiders is dealing with the irrational fear. you'll never be able to kill all the spiders. Kill the fear instead and the spider problem will be gone.
The vast majority of spiders are harmless to humans and has already been mentioned, a lot can not even pierce our skin. A spider loves to be left alone and it will leave you alone.

[Hoyu]

Undo wrote:
I think a bigger concern with spiders is dealing with the irrational fear. you'll never be able to kill all the spiders. Kill the fear instead and the spider problem will be gone.

_/_

[Kyonin]

Like all around here, I cherish life. I truly do. But when it comes to safety and health, I don't might kill an mosquito here and there.

You see, I live in a place where we have dengue. Nasty disease transmitted by mosquito bite. So it's either protect my own health or let mosquitoes bite me.

I usually do a pretty decent job keeping them away from inside the house, but sometimes my mind is not mindful and the ape inside me just squashes them.

Not sure how to fit this into the precepts but if you are protecting your health and your families, I think it's okay to do what you need. Just as long as you don't go all postal and kill just for the heck of it.

Just my two pesos.

[Graceleejenkins]

I live with many spiders in my house, and those I may need to move have become garage spiders for years!
I try very hard not to kill anything that I don’t need, too, but if I need to, and it seems to be fair in the cycle of nature or life, then I do so, and I don’t feel guilty.

Once my nephew smashed a preying mantis against a wall, and I strongly told him that he shouldn’t have done that. He asked me why not, because he had seen me kill a mosquito. What was the big deal? Because we were late for boyscouts, I didn’t have a good answer right away.

Afterwards when I thought about it, I told him it wasn’t “right” because the preying mantis didn’t die for a real purpose, like being food for something else, but died only because of my nephew’s boredom. I told him that I do not go out of my way to kill a mosquito and kill it only if it starts to bite me, and to me, killing a mosquito to keep it from biting me seems a natural part of the cycle of nature. Insects bite, and their victims try to kill them to stop them from biting. However, he killed the preying mantis because he was bored, and to kill outside of a natural cycle, because you are bored or afraid or for a sense of fun, seems wrong to me.

I would look at termite extermination the same way. In the natural world, termites have a right to try to eat a creature’s abode, and other creatures (including us) have the right to try to stop them or to eat them—part of the natural cycle. I know there are always cases that test the limits, but this somewhat unconscious rule has worked well for me, and I haven’t felt guilty about what I have killed.

Nonetheless, it makes me happy to have people at least consider what they are doing, as we are here, even if we may not all draw the limit at the same place. Gassho, Grace.

[Risho]

I would definitely rid my environment of any funnel web spiders.

[Hoyu]

Choco wrote:
Not sure how to fit this into the precepts but if you are protecting your health and your families, I think it's okay to do what you need. Just as long as you don't go all postal and kill just for the heck of it.

I agree with you Choco. Here is what I wrote above:

If one feels guilty for killing spiders then they should refrain from killing them. If it doesn't bother someone to kill them then that is OK too.

I think that compassion rather than guilt would make a better determining factor to, or not to take a life.

Gassho,
John

Let me expalin further what I meant about compassion, which ties into what you have written. It's like when Jundo Sensei had the termites. Getting rid of them was still an act of compassion. To let them be would create a hazardous condition for all who enter the Zendo. Just seeing the earthquakes during our Zazenkai is a good reminder of all who have been saved by not having it cave in on them.
Likewise, as you mentioned, killing mosquitos to prevent illness/death to you or others is also an act of compassion. Well in my opinion anyway!

Gassho,
John

[Undo]

I would definitely rid my environment of any funnel web spiders.

:shock: funnel webs are part of one of my favourite groups. I even managed to breed some last year and got 101 little slings


back to the OP.
Withot putting any pressure on you or your wife. It is quite common for a local zoo, animal park or your local arachid club to run courses for arachnopobes. They can tell you all you need to know about spiders and try and help with the phobia aspect too.

[Stev]

My problem is flies, because of where we live and how we live, a very open house in a small hamlet where mostly everyone has some sort of livestock and due to the time of year, every time I sit I am attacked by flies!! Now as I am writing this, a metre from where I will be meditating in an hour or so there are no flies, well none annoying me anyway but I can guarantee the moment I sit there will be flies using my head nose and arms for a landing stage. I have really been struggling as to what the best thing is to do because it just does not feel right killing flies so I can meditate.
I did once keep bees, and tried dressing up in my bee keeping gear but apart from feeling stupid ops: it is Southern Spain and 34C in the shade so though it kept the flies off my skin it was far too hot!
So then I tried Dukka, I told myself the fly crawling up my nose was nothing but Dukka and I should embrace it as nothing more! Well to be honest that does kind of work depending on how the actual sitting is going, but when one has about 5 flies drinking one's sweat there comes the point where I have to move!!
But now I have the perfect weapon and strategy, it is a tennis racket shaped thingy with batteries that zaps the flies, it is meant to kill them but I found it only stuns them, so when I sit and the flies come I stun them with my racket, out of a 20 minute sitting I get about 10 minutes peace, and end up peacefully relaxed surrounded by 4 or 5 little sleeping souls.
Unless of course it is one of those times when I have caught my own ear or arm, that zapper hurts!!
Karma eh!!!

[Taigu]

You know what baby, you are ( I am damn sure this is intentionnal), you are , how shall I put it.... You are the guy, shape, triangle-like thing that WE, flies, bump into every---F-------time we try to enjoy our flying skills....
Could you ,please, remove this so we can fly as flies.

gassho

BUDDHA..flies

[Shokai]

Steve;
This site was made for you :lol:
http://www.do-not-zzz.com/index2.html

enjoy,

[Stev]

This site was made for you :lol:
http://www.do-not-zzz.com/index2.html

Thanks for that Shokai

But I think I have found the answer, I didn't think flies could read or write but having read this-

You know what baby, you are ( I am damn sure this is intentionnal), you are , how shall I put it.... You are the guy, shape, triangle-like thing that WE, flies, bump into every---F-------time we try to enjoy our flying skills....
Could you ,please, remove this so we can fly as flies.

Following the advice i read somewhere on this site I wrote this notice-
"Hi flies, I am meditating, please do not disturb me cos I will have to Zap you,I wish you much Metta"
Every time a fly landed on me I wished them much Metta and you know something strange happened, they did not bother me at all,

[Geika]

I try to avoid killing at most costs. Where I draw the line is when I am actually putting my own life or livelihood (or my loved ones') at risk to avoid hurting something. Then, I would be breaking the precept by putting myself in harm's way. I always bow before I smash. I smash as quickly as possible.

In the area of prohibitions against killing, one laywoman asked, "What should we do if there are mice and termites at home?" Dharma Master Heng Lyu answered, "You first post a notice asking them to leave. Next, you use insect repellants to chase them out. Avoid insecticides because you want to avoid the karma of killing."

One layman asked, "How do you avoid harming living beings while mowing the lawn?"

Dharma Master Heng Lyu said, "You would first post a notice to let the small creatures know that it's best to move, then mow the lawn. While you're mowing the lawn, recite the Great Compassion Mantra at the same time."

Excerpted from the article, "The City of Ten Thousand Buddhas Holds First Transmission of the Lay Bodhisattva Precepts in the New Millenium", on page 49 of the October 2000 issue (volume 31, series 73) of the Vajra Bodhi Sea.

I love this. I sometimes spend some time telling bugs that I am going to have to do some harm if they do not leave soon, and that I'm sorry!

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=W083nSzx1Rc

What a great laugh he has!

The precept of not killing, my my humble view, is all about intention.
There is some difference between killing, although they are all killing, a mosquito absentmindedly while it is buzzing around you, or with a mosquitolamp or deliberately pulling one wing out at a time...

Great point.

That being said, If there were giant ones, Like in the movie Giant spider invasion, and they were attacking me, i wouldnt hesitate to break an precept...

Would you not be protecting life by removing the attacking giant spider? Like yourself, or your family? I think that might be following the precept.

As far as my understanding, or lack there of, is concerned the koan of our life is exactly what you're referring to here. Yes, technically we do not kill. Yet we kill to eat. Just because a cabbage doesn't scream doesn't mean it enjoy's being wrenched from the soil. No to mention the mice and insects in our wheat and blah blah blah...

I can't help but think of this whenever one of those vegetarian vs. non-vegetarian arguments happens. I think the fact that we must kill to eat is the most basic lesson that the universe offers us: we all die, no matter what, and it's just part of the cycle so that more life can come.

A little boy is staying with us right now. He was killing ants in the front yard. I told him not to because they run for their lives just as he would if he were being stomped on. I later heard him repeating this during his game with some action figures. :lol: I hope he remembers.

[Emmet]

How do some of you feel about taking the life of spiders and insects?

That would rather depend upon the insect in question. The other day my lover found a humongous Brown Recluse spider in the bathroom; as a Paramedic I'm intimately familiar with the months of tissue necrosis, pain, and scarification that they can cause. I killed it instantly.
I didn't enjoy killing it; I bore no sense of enmity towards it, and I didn't allow it to suffer, but there wasn't a moment's hesitation either.

After a monsoon-like summer, we're completely overrun with mosquitoes. We have something like 80 varieties here, including voracious Tiger and Salt Marsh mosquitoes. We also have Encephalitis, West Nile virus, Dengue, even malaria. yeah; I kill them too.

[Shogen]

NOTICE

To all flies that wish to excersize their flying skills please have at it. However, if you have just left a pile of dung or a decaying corpse and want to share my sandwich, you will be terminated. I sincerely hope that evolution will quickly teach your species not to hang out around humans

To all spiders that wish to eliminate insects from my home please be advised that I will accomplish the task myself. I do not require your services. I also respectfully request that you not mistake me or my family for a large meal as we sleep. If you enter I will quickly send you to the recycle bin. Perhaps you will be recycled as a human and share my opinion, or not.

To all mosquitos stay the hell away. I see no purpose that we humans can possibly have for allowing you to survive. You present grave harm to me and everyone I care about. Nothing can eat fast enough to balance your population explosion. If left unchecked there won't be enough blood left to keep you all alive. Do Not Hang Out Around Us or zap.

The list could go on but the point has been made. Don't threaten me or mine and we can live in harmony. End Of Notice Gassho, Shogen

[Undo]

This is one from my house.
She has just given birth to 15 to 20 young.
I find them fascinating and feel privileged to be able to witness how they live and interact.


I can understand they are not everyone's cup of tea but they really are stunning given the chance.
There can sometimes be dangers, just like with bees, dogs, horses, cattle or cars etcetera.