Sitting with VERY deep fear

[Mari]

A little background, since I'm still new. I'm on quite a few medications, and one of them I have to take every day because if I go off of it cold turkey, I'll run the risk of seizures and getting back on it would require going back to the lowest dose and working back up because a deadly rash can develop if you just jump back up to the dosage I'm on.

I went to the pharmacy to get my medications refilled and was told my insurance was cancelled. Immediate panic attack. Fear the likes of which I've never experienced before, and believe me I've been through some HEAVY stuff. Most of the fear had to do with that heavy stuff coming back, having to go through it again, it being worse this time, destroying everything this time. END OF THE WORLD. I jump there pretty quickly.

So; once I got settled home, in my "safe place", with my safety plan people on full alert (all of this has to be done FIRST, and quickly), I tried to figure out what I could do to help "fix this", deal with it. I had no way to control the situation, there was nothing I could do over the holiday weekend. I could not "fix it".

What do I keep hearing? "Just sit". Not easy. But I also keep hearing "Even bad Zen is good Zen". See the sky. Couldn't really do that because of one massive thunder-head, but I hear the sky is still there..and it seems sensible that the thunder-head couldn't even be possible if there was no sky for it to be in, so was willing to keep the idea that this could be true. Keep sitting. Was I doing it right or wrong? Didn't matter. Posture, being "perfect"? Didn't matter. Nothing seemed to matter but doing what I was doing. What was I doing? Just sitting with it. Right then. I couldn't even think about it that much because it was so huge and overwhelming. I'm not going to say the thunder-head went away because it didn't really, but it wasn't so strong because it was all based on "what ifs" and not now. Now was only sitting. It sort of went from END OF THE WORLD, to "here I am, and this looks nothing like the end of the world" so the end of the world isn't actually happening. What's happening is sitting. That was all I needed to be doing since I couldn't do much else, and the other stuff didn't float away, but it loosened up.

As it turned out, it was a computer glitch and things are fine.

So, now questions. Is this what is meant by "just sitting"? Do the stuff that Zen doesn't fix, like make the call at the first opportunity this morning and get it actually fixed or at least get the ball rolling in that direction and make sure that I'm physically safe until I could do that, but until I could do that, sit with it? I mean, my grip on this situation being the most horrible thing that could ever happen loosened up a little bit by sitting, so is it possible that I might not react the same way should other, lesser things, come up? That the ideas of doing things "right or wrong" loosened up a bit as well and that I might not "need" those ideas, is that also part of "just sitting"?

Any insight or feedback would be greatly appreciated. I'm more used to the mindfulness way of going about meditation...and that (no disrespect meant to the mindfulness techniques) isn't all that helpful to me in my own experience (which is why I went looking for something else and ended up here ). Looking into the causes, etc, often causes me to get more worked up because I'm focusing on it and kind of "feeding it", thoughts leading to thoughts leading to thoughts, and I think too much as it is.

[elle]

resurrecting a very old thread. I came across this on accident, looking for the old book study on Charlotte Joko Beck, and I found this discussion immensely useful.
And! I was quite pleased to recognize a few names and faces that are still here.

Gassho,
Elle

sat today

[Myosha]

Metta to all.


Gassho,
Myosha sat today

[Meredith]

Thanks for bumping this thread. I was reminded how instrumental my meditation practice has been in dealing with my (now almost non-existent!) social anxiety. I didn't start meditation as an antidote to anxiety--it was a very nice side-effect though

Gassho,
Meredith

_/SatToday\_

[Meikyo]

Hello.

Thank you for the brave sharing and the wise responses. I only have one brief thing to add.

Often times I've found that realizing that actually you are the one in charge of your own perceptions and how you respond to stimuli makes it easier though not easy to shut them down or lessen the effect they have. Your inner workings mean more to the overall experience than you would ordinarily think. Some some problems are even 100% generated by yourself. When you sit then gradually the slate is wiped clean(er). Your vision is no longer as obscured as before. You come to a place where you when rising from the sit can act from that clearer field and hence live your life in a at once gentler and more decisive manner.

Keep on.

Gassho
Meikyo
SAT TODAY!

[Jakugan]

Thank you to all sharing for what must be difficult experiences for those affected. Metta to all.

Gassho,

Simon.

Sat today

[Nameless]

As always, excellent advice from fellow Leafers.

Anxiety and panic come to us all at some point. I had panic attacks for years and was on meds for them. Panicking about panic is the main cause of agoraphobia actually.

While in panic mode, a psych would tell us to focus on our bodies. To feel our heart racing, rapid breathing and tense muscles. Then we start to breathe slow and deep, relax our muscles and feel our heart beat slow. Mind and body are one, so when the body calms the mind calms. Sounds rather Zenny for CB therapists doesn't it?

Anyway, for me just sitting is but an extension of "just this" if that makes any sense haha. Sitting kinda spills over into other aspects of life. Because zazen is always, even if we aren't aware of it.

Gassho, John
Sat Today

[Geika]

Since I last posted in this thread, I very rarely experience panic attacks anymore. I still have anxiety which causes OCD like symptoms, but that's manageable. I feel like the only thing that got it to stop was just getting used to it. No meds, though I considered it. What's odd now is I am in control of it. I could very easily summon up an attack at will, and therefore just learned to ignore it if I could just make it happen. Hard to explain.... Maybe it helps someone to know that, though.

Gassho

Sat today

[Risho]

Thank you all -- wild timing. I experienced some mild anxiety during today's sitting, and I was going to post it, and here you go -- perhaps something in the Treeleaf water. lol

I do not have any clinical level of anxiety that requires meds or anything, but I will tell you my anxiety has a lot to do with ego protection. If work is slow, oh no -- I'm not important, will I get laid off? Will I starve and lose everything? Will my wife leave me? What if I can't solve that programming problem or don't know everything that people think I should? The list goes on.

I may have always had these feelings; I first started actually noticing them after a few months of sitting when I was taking Jukai. I will tell you; I almost lost it, then something switched and I started laughing.

Sitting through these feelings can be hard, but for me it's of the utmost necessity; this is part of learning myself too, even the dark side that scares the hell out of me.

Thank you for the resurrection.

Gassho,

Risho
-sattoday

[julie]

I have found that just sitting has allowed me to practice letting go of whatever fears pop up in the course of the day. My thought runs, no separation - is there fear in my seat, is there fear in my feet, my legs, my hands...no. Fear is in my mind, and my mind can't run away. My mind is here/now and in these infinite moments fear has no room to be. So, back to the breath, and there is no fear in my breath, I take no fear in, and it goes with each exhalation. It's a surrender as someone said above, not in the sense of being trapped and helpless, but just letting what comes come and it will go. I too am on multiple medications (for bipolar disorder and anxiety, less the anxiety now!) but I consider those now part of practice, in the sense of maintaining health. Today I did walking meditation and truly felt the 'massaging the earth' with each step, no fear arose. In my sitting meditation today the flow made no room for the usual anxiety - the coming and going did not allow anything to settle. It was as if a cool stream was flowing, washing any stray thoughts away. Perhaps this is not the ideal of 'empty mind' but it felt lovely.

ETA: Another old post! I will find my way to the present...just more newb wanderings.

Gassho everyone.
sat today

[Byokan]

... My thought runs, no separation - is there fear in my seat, is there fear in my feet, my legs, my hands...no. Fear is in my mind, and my mind can't run away. My mind is here/now and in these infinite moments fear has no room to be. So, back to the breath, and there is no fear in my breath, I take no fear in, and it goes with each exhalation. It's a surrender as someone said above, not in the sense of being trapped and helpless, but just letting what comes come and it will go. ..

Hi Julie,

this is awesome, thanks for posting! It may not be strictly Shikantaza, but it sounds like a wonderful way to just be with anxiety, and find a calm oasis.

Gassho
Lisa
sat today

[michaeljc]

Shohei wrote:

Hey Greg,
I still do get them time to time, best thing for them is to look right at em

This is my approach too. I don't get very deep fear but rather gnawing apprehension. I have found by by seeking out issues that are causing stress/mental pain and going right into the actual emotion they create they are most often dissolved. The seeking out is not about trying to understand but rather the process of triggering or identifying the emotion. They - or something similar - will return, so I usually sit every day. Its all mind

A wonderful practice is this

m

sat this-evening

[Jishin]

Hi,

My five year old has sat with me before.

"Daddy, don't you get scared when you meditate?"

"How come?"

"I think about monsters."

"Nah. They are just make belief monsters. Ok?"

"Ok."

"Let's go play now!" - the five year old says to the nine year old who just finished meditating too who agreed with my explanation.



Gassho, Jishin

[Mp]

Hi,

My five year old has sat with me before.

"Daddy, don't you get scared when you meditate?"

"How come?"

"I think about monsters."

"Nah. They are just make belief monsters. Ok?"

"Ok."

"Let's go play now!" - the five year old says to the nine year old who just finished meditating too who agreed with my explanation.



Gassho, Jishin

Brilliant! Sometimes the simplest approach is the clearest approach. =)

Gassho
Shingen

#sattoday

[Meredith]

Hi,

My five year old has sat with me before.

"Daddy, don't you get scared when you meditate?"

"How come?"

"I think about monsters."

"Nah. They are just make belief monsters. Ok?"

"Ok."

"Let's go play now!" - the five year old says to the nine year old who just finished meditating too who agreed with my explanation.



Gassho, Jishin

Marvelous

Gassho, Meredith
SatToday