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Thread: RECOMMENDED 'At Home' Liturgy

  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by SNPII View Post
    Judno there is so much here, I have downloaded the chant book, but oten have troubles remembering the chants. Suggestions? I am very inexperienced with this form of meditation and still a newbie. I know you hear this a lot.

    Thanks
    Hello SNPII,

    First can you please sig your posts with a human name so that we may have a better and more personal connection. =)

    As for learning the chants, practice, practice, and practice some more. As Chishou has mentioned, practice from the heart to feel the chants and not to just memorize them is good practice. It will come in time the more you do it. =)

    Gassho
    Shingen

    Sat/LAH
    RINDO SHINGEN
    倫道 真現

  2. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Meitou View Post
    Hey Chishou, would it be possible to post a link here to the River Temple chant? I'm trying to learn the Japanese too because I like the rhythm of it, being able to listen to a clear recording would be really helpful. I do love the Kissaquo version but tend to get carried away by the emotion instead of paying attention to the words
    Gassho
    Meitou
    satwithyoualltoday/lah
    Hello Meitou,

    Here is a lovely and very easy to follow along version of the Heart Sutra in Japanese. =)



    Gassho
    Shingen

    Sat/LAH
    RINDO SHINGEN
    倫道 真現

  3. #53


    Know that frogs also know the Heart Sutra.

    Meitou, I had to buy the Zen River chants from their website. It is 11Ä via paypal. They are a little quiet, but good for mini-ceremonies at home.

    With a bow,
    Chishou
    Sat.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Ask not what the Sangha can do for you, but what you can do for your Sangha.

  4. #54
    Shingen and Chishou, deep bows of gratitude to you both for the links and info.

    Meitou
    satwithyoualltoday/lah
    命 Mei - life
    島 Tou - island

  5. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Meitou View Post
    Shingen and Chishou, deep bows of gratitude to you both for the links and info.

    Meitou
    satwithyoualltoday/lah
    Your welcome ... if you or anyone is interested in listening, I did do up some audio files of the chants we do in English, both with and without instruments. You are free to use them as you wish. =)

    Audio Chant Files: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7...C1fRXR5bHRKSmM

    Gassho
    Shingen

    Sat/LAH
    RINDO SHINGEN
    倫道 真現

  6. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by SNPII View Post
    Shinshi I am curious as to your reasons for resisting the ritualistic aspects. I am in a similar place and yet open minded for sure!

    Shane

    Sattoday
    Well, it is kind of a long answer but here goes.

    You have to know two things about me. One I din't come to Zen through religion or belief - I came to Zen through Martial Arts - which led me to Kung Fu - which led me to the Shaolin Temple - which led me to Bodhidharma - which led me to Zen. The other thing is that I was a punk at that same time (well I still am <g>), played punk music, very straight edge - so I was very anti a lot of stuff.

    The Zen I found on my path I liked. The whole "If you meet the Buddha on the road kill him" - Zen masters as tricksters, and non-linear thinkers, as rule breakers - really appealed to me. But the more I learned the more I realized that there were all the rituals in Zen that seemed very stylized and pointless to me. In fact I wandered away from Zen to a more Vipassana - Mindfulness version of Buddhism.

    Probably the best example of my change of view wasn't in Zen so much as the ceremony of marriage. I told my girlfriend at the time that I was never going to get married. Because if you loved someone and wanted to be them you would just be with them. What did a piece of paper have to do with anything. But over time my view started to change.

    I came to see marriage in a different light. I came to believe that marriage wasn't so much about the couple. Marriage was a ritual that served an important purpose.

    First marriage integrates the couple into the the group that had gone before. It connects them to the experience that they share with their parents, and friends, and culture. It bonds them to a greater whole. Even more marriage allows friends and families to reconnect. And in reconnects them to something sacred, reminding them as to what is important in life. It reconnects them to the values and beliefs that they share in common with their cohort. It is a process that re-bonds people and reminds them who they are and where they come from. It is a great bringing together of old friends and new. It strengthens old bonds and forges new ones. It has an important place in community.

    We move from the mundane and reconnect to the sacredness of life.

    And that is how I have come to see the Zen rituals as well. It brings us all back together - to a common place. It reconnects us to those the have come before and and integrates us into the flow that is our shared existence. When we do a ritual we never do it alone - even if we are alone - because when go through the ritual we do it with everyone has have ever done it in the past, and everyone who will do it in the future.

    And when we engage in ritual it helps to diminish just a bit our strong sense of self, and strengthens our sense of oneness. We are one as we behave as one. And we can move on from there to follow our path, but we start from a place of groundedness and community.

    That is how I have come to see it.

    Now of course, people can get narrow minded and absorbed in the ritual - and loose that connection to something greater than themselves. Ritual can be trap that becomes all about the ritual and nothing more.

    Roshi eddiebear talked about this in his talk last Sunday. My take away was that talked about how Vispassina does away with the ritual but tells you exactly how to evaluate your thoughts when you meditate. Zen has a bunch of ritual but in Zen your mind is free to be. Or something to that effect.

    His talk s is well worth a listen:

    https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/show...ajara-Tenzo%29


    Gassho, Shinshi

    SaT-LaH
    Last edited by Shinshi; 05-10-2018 at 12:20 AM.
    空道 心志 Kudo Shinshi
    I am just a priest-in-training, any resemblance between what I post and actual teachings is purely coincidental.

  7. #57
    Yes, very nice recommendations Jundo. AND it's time for me to return to my own home liturgy with gifts of Buddhas, and other alter pieces from family members. I will begin practicing more alone from here on. Thank you.

    Tai Shi
    sat today/lah
    Gassho
    "We cannot enjoy life if we spend a lot of time worrying about what happened yesterday and what will happen tomorrow." Thich Nhat Hanh

  8. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinshi View Post
    Roshi eddiebear talked about this in his talk last Sunday. My take away was that talked about how Vispassina does away with the ritual but tells you exactly how to evaluate your thoughts when you meditate. Zen has a bunch of ritual but in Zen your mind is free to be. Or something to that effect.
    Well, in Zazen, we let thoughts go and let them be without grabbing on, but we also avoid to wallow in excess desires, anger and divisive thinking on or off the cushion. So, not quite complete laissez-faire.

    South East Asian Buddhism, which is the actual source of Vipassana, is actually very heavy in ritual, ceremony and many other traditional practices and beliefs, as is much of Asian Buddhism. The step away from Ceremony is pretty much a modernist and Westernizing phenomenon.

    Here, at Treeleaf, I take the middle way: We are minimalists on Ceremony, but the one's we do I hope mean something. Blowing out birthday candles, a wedding, a funeral, are all ceremonies which mean something to the heart too.

    Sean, this Path is for a lifetime, so don't be in a hurry to stuff many things into the head right away. Better to read a Chant and recite it from all one's heart than to worry too much about memorizing it. Even the most experienced monks use a Chant Book sometimes.

    Gassho, J

    SatTodayLAH
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  9. #59
    Sure thing!

    Shane

  10. #60
    Understandable. Thanks for the insight!

    Sattoday

    Shane

  11. #61
    Does anyone have some simple start points on English chants I can start on?

    I am an avid user of the insight Timer, but when it comes to the chanting ones some of the sounds are too harsh for me to focus on. I saying this please understand I do like the peaceful guitar sounds some nature and even some of the more Indian/Asian acoustics as well.

    Am I making sense here?

    Sattoday

    Shane

  12. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by SNPII View Post
    Does anyone have some simple start points on English chants I can start on?

    I am an avid user of the insight Timer, but when it comes to the chanting ones some of the sounds are too harsh for me to focus on. I saying this please understand I do like the peaceful guitar sounds some nature and even some of the more Indian/Asian acoustics as well.

    Am I making sense here?

    Sattoday

    Shane
    Shane,

    Just focus on getting a regular sitting practice. Start small and on getting your posture comfortable, then gently extend. I started about 2 years ago doing 5 mins, then increased by 5 mines until I do 35mins twice a day.

    Only after taking the precepts in January did I get a small altar and start chanting the atonement and 4 vows because it felt natural to do so. 5 months on Iíve added the Japanese robe verse and heart sutra to my morning sit. Again, because the timing felt right.

    When I started here at TL, I wanted to bow before I could sit (as apposed to run before walk). I felt a calling to ordain an an priest, but I was still too immature in my practice. Since then, my feelings towards ordination have grown, but I understand it will come with time, patience and practice.

    Have you watched Jundoís series on Buddha Basics? Might be a good place to start.

    Chishou,
    No sit, just woken up.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Ask not what the Sangha can do for you, but what you can do for your Sangha.

  13. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by SNPII View Post
    Does anyone have some simple start points on English chants I can start on?

    I am an avid user of the insight Timer, but when it comes to the chanting ones some of the sounds are too harsh for me to focus on. I saying this please understand I do like the peaceful guitar sounds some nature and even some of the more Indian/Asian acoustics as well.

    Am I making sense here?

    Sattoday

    Shane
    Shane, Chishou has given you some great advice. I'd just add that if you go back a few posts, Shingen has posted a link to some chants in English. We also have a Treeleaf liturgy book which you can download and print/transfer to Kindle etc. You may find, as I did, that a particular chant really touches you, and you could start with that.
    You mention Insight Timer, so I take it you are in the Treeleaf group. Another thing you might like, which doesn't often get a mention here is the Treeleaf app which you can find in the Google store - it's really great, gives you a moment's pause whenever you need it. I use it every day. Sorry not to post links, I'm using my phone which is a lot smarter than me.
    Edit:Shane the link to the chant book and much more info is in the very first post by Jundo that heads this thread.

    Gassho
    Meitou
    Satwithyoualltoday lah
    Last edited by Meitou; 05-10-2018 at 07:26 AM.
    命 Mei - life
    島 Tou - island

  14. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Meitou View Post
    Shane, Chishou has given you some great advice. I'd just add that if you go back a few posts, Shingen has posted a link to some chants in English. We also have a Treeleaf liturgy book which you can download and print/transfer to Kindle etc. You may find, as I did, that a particular chant really touches you, and you could start with that.
    You mention Insight Timer, so I take it you are in the Treeleaf group. Another thing you might like, which doesn't often get a mention here is the Treeleaf app which you can find in the Google store - it's really great, gives you a moment's pause whenever you need it. I use it every day. Sorry not to post links, I'm using my phone which is a lot smarter than me.
    Edit:Shane the link to the chant book and much more info is in the very first post by Jundo that heads this thread.

    Gassho
    Meitou
    Satwithyoualltoday lah
    Thank you Meitou ... Shane, here is the link the chants we perform weekly, monthly, and daily. =)

    Treeleaf Chant Book: https://sites.google.com/site/jundot...edirects=0&d=1

    Gassho
    Shingen

    Sat/LAH
    RINDO SHINGEN
    倫道 真現

  15. #65
    Just something from a noob on the "bow - turn - bow" part:
    To stop myself from going through the motions without any emotions, I made something up to put more meaning into my bows before sitting.

    While bowing towards the zafu, my thoughts go along the lines of "Realizing that I can only walk on this Buddha Path thanks to all the Buddhas, Bodhisattvas, Teachers and many other beings (yes, including the lady at the supermarket who stacks the shelf so I can get sustenance), I bow in gratitude. To name just one of the many, I say thanks to Manjushri Maha Bodhisattva, whose seat I am about to borrow: Namu Monju Bosatsu."

    While bowing away from the zafu, I give something like a mash-up of Metta and the Vows, and as I happen to bow roughly in the direction of a Kannon statue, I say: Namu Daiji Daihi Kyuuku Kanzeonbosatsu.

    To keep this really heartfelt and alive, I try not to phrase it exactly the same each time.

    Now I am writing about this, it made me think of the bow-turn-bow after sitting: I just came to realize that I usually just get it over and done with. I really should put some meaning into those bows from now on. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to write about it ... seems to help me realizing things.

    Sat today, lah and good night

    Gero

  16. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Gero View Post
    Just something from a noob on the "bow - turn - bow" part:
    To stop myself from going through the motions without any emotions, I made something up to put more meaning into my bows before sitting.

    While bowing towards the zafu, my thoughts go along the lines of "Realizing that I can only walk on this Buddha Path thanks to all the Buddhas, Bodhisattvas, Teachers and many other beings (yes, including the lady at the supermarket who stacks the shelf so I can get sustenance), I bow in gratitude. To name just one of the many, I say thanks to Manjushri Maha Bodhisattva, whose seat I am about to borrow: Namu Monju Bosatsu."

    While bowing away from the zafu, I give something like a mash-up of Metta and the Vows, and as I happen to bow roughly in the direction of a Kannon statue, I say: Namu Daiji Daihi Kyuuku Kanzeonbosatsu.

    To keep this really heartfelt and alive, I try not to phrase it exactly the same each time.

    Now I am writing about this, it made me think of the bow-turn-bow after sitting: I just came to realize that I usually just get it over and done with. I really should put some meaning into those bows from now on. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to write about it ... seems to help me realizing things.

    Sat today, lah and good night

    Gero
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  17. #67
    I have added Ryaku Fusatsu and Tonglen to our recommended 'AT HOME' Liturgy above.

    Gassho, J

    STLah
    Last edited by Jundo; 02-16-2019 at 10:35 AM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  18. #68
    Hey,

    I have been using the Plum Village Chant book what are your thoughts on it?

    Gassho,

    Karl

    St

  19. #69
    Hi Karl,

    They are all translations of Japanese-Chinese-Vietnamese texts, often themselves translations of Sanskrit or other languages, so all just interpretations. Thus, when at Plum Village chant Plum Village, when at Treeleaf chant the Treeleaf way, when home chant the way you like.

    Gassho J

    SatTodaylah
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

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