Friends and family...

[SunnyP]

Hello Everyone,

I was just curious about what everybody's friends and family think about you choosing to take this path. My family swears i am going to burn in hell, but they have always thought that way. My friends could careless, and my husband thinks it's about time. With my family, they think i have just lost my faith and i'm confused. I think it is funny they think that way because i haven't lost anything, i just don't think along the same lines they do. I told them that i have been looking into this for a long time and that i am finally taking the leap. Anyways, this is just rambling, just something in my head and i thought i would get it out and share it.

Thank you all,
Paula

[Dosho]

Hey Paula,

Although my father teaches religion at a community college, my upbringing was never religious so I never had anything to walk away from to head down the path. However, I know there are a fair amount of folks here who have had the same reaction from family that you describe. The biggest thing is that your husband accepts you which is something that extends in many directions and makes for a strong bond. My wife supports me all the way and it makes all the difference in the world.

Gassho,
Dosho

[aikoku tora]

oh here the reactions differ quite abit...My Mother is a traditional old world ( not new age) Celt pagen and see's more similarities in respecting the flow " or the force" of the universe...and is infact not shocked, and rather proud..and seems to enjoy letting others know...

My father could really care less one way or another..He really is a businessman at heart so religion, or philosophy are pretty much bottom rung on his mind, if even on the scope to start with..

My grandmother on my mothers side was a rather strict christian in her youth, but each years becomes more and more open and relaxed, and while it's not her path, she is respectful, and just happy there is something, be it a philosophy or not that helps in day to day life and keeps us happy...

on the other hand I have an uncle whos a born again evangelical ( who really really walks the extremist side) not pretty on that side...but then again he also preaches to other Christians their doom if they don't see exact eye to eye with what he thinks..

but overall I was raised in a very diverse family, and further more taken on, and adopted in heart by other families with shinto roots, and buddhist roots, and a good smattering of things in between, so in the end I don't think there is really much of an impact one way or another...

[Keishin]

This is an excellent topic to raise--one which regularly comes up.

For my two cents, I recommend not talking to friends or family about one's buddhism.
For one, it takes a long time of silent immersion to even get a true sense of what it is your are doing in zazen, not just what it is you THINK you are doing. By the time that sense comes, there aren't any words adequate to the task. Fellow zazen practitioners will sympathize with attempts at explanation, and some gifted persons are able to do a descent job with words, but the rest of us (and I am one), are better off remaining quiet for the most part--just be a good friend, good sister/brother, son/daughter, auntie/uncle--in other words just go about your ordinary life. It's someone's birthday?--bake the cake, bring the present, help clean up after. Someone had a baby?--chip in for the nappy/diaper service--bring the punch for the 'baby shower' party, help put the crib together. Parent/neighbor came down with the flu?--make the chicken soup, take that and juices over, do some housecleaning, take out the trash...
Little deeds, small contributions and simple tasks aren't exclusive to buddhists--this is where all faiths are identical. Someone needs support, needs help: then be supportive, be helpful, no need to discuss anything.

You haven't 'gone' buddhist...you haven't 'gone' anywhere.

At some point it becomes clearer what there is to share and with whom to share it.
Until then, it is just the self trying to set itself up as separate, as different, as special in some way--avoid it.

[Taigu]

There is a lot of wisdom in Keishin's point of view, it reminds me of the following : "when I told everybody I had gone buddhist, everybody in my family was annoyed. Since I am a Buddha, nobody minds".
When I started to sit and be really involved at 13, my whole family went to war with me and my mother who totally trusted what I was doing. For many years, i experienced deep rejection from many people in the name of what they called Christianity. I even lost a job because I was buddhist when i was teaching in a Christian school and its community. I also witnessed intolerance in buddhists of all sorts. The basic problem has nothing to do with Buddhism, Christianity or Islam, or even with cultural misunderstandings, it has to do with human delusion and confusion. The root of it all is the idea that what we see as our reality, what we believe in applies everywhere to everybody, everybody should see as we see, practice as we practice. We all have to be very careful with that one: in the name of truth, anybody can turn into a religious terrorist. Religions as institutions and groups live on this mind. Religions give people the opportunity to play with the most dangerous toys: hopes and fears.

These days, my family does not care anymore. The woman who shares my life does not share the Dharma, she could not care less and all is well. Could not be better.

You will rot in hell Paula? Let them believe what they want and preach with your own actions. After all, Hell is a better place than Heaven when Heaven is seen as an ever lasting resting place for bashed and wounded egos pampered by Angels or Buddhas :lol:

gassho

Taigu

[Kent]

After all, Hell is a better place than Heaven when Heaven is seen as an everlasting resting place for the bashed and wounded egos pampered by Angels or Buddhas.

Taigu, thank you for the evocative image that inspires.

[Rich]

Hello Everyone,

I was just curious about what everybody's friends and family think about you choosing to take this path.

Thank you all,
Paula

I can tell when my girlfriend is annoyed with me cause she tells me to go meditate. She doesn't sit but did some yoga for awhile. My adult children have been aware of my sitting since they were young but have no interest so far. Unless someone expresses an interest it's not something I would bring up.
/Rich

[SunnyP]

"You will rot in hell Paula? Let them believe what they want and preach with your own actions. After all, Hell is a better place than Heaven when Heaven is seen as an ever lasting resting place for bashed and wounded egos pampered by Angels or Buddhas "

Thank you for that.

Paula

[SunnyP]

Hey All,

Thank you for responding. I have never been too worried about what my family or friends think of me. I was only curious what others have experienced. Thank you again.

Paula

[disastermouse]

My experience has shown me that 'Living Buddha, Living Christ' has had some moderating effect on my family. For my mom, I just translate Buddhist teachings into the relevant Catholic ones (there are a lot, actually).

After you become a bit more established as a Buddhist, it's easier to speak to others in whatever religious 'language' they use.

Chet

[aikoku tora]

My experience has shown me that 'Living Buddha, Living Christ' has had some moderating effect on my family. For my mom, I just translate Buddhist teachings into the relevant Catholic ones (there are a lot, actually).

After you become a bit more established as a Buddhist, it's easier to speak to others in whatever religious 'language' they use.

Chet

actually my great uncle is a catholic priest.. he said it was pretty common for priests in training to go study with Buddhists and he went as far to say " that he learned " that the rosary was actually inspired by the Mala. don't know how true or not it is, other than what he's said and the countless documentary of priests visiting Tibetan temples

[SunnyP]

"After you become a bit more established as a Buddhist, it's easier to speak to others in whatever religious 'language' they use."

Chet

Thank you Chet,

I am unable to speak about being a Buddhist right now, i just don't have the words. I am finding it a lot easier to just sit right now and learn what i can.

Paula

[Myoshin]

Thanks for sharing Paula.

My family was kinda divided. My Dad did not really care one way or another, just as long as I was not sacrificing goats on a hill or something. My Mom was a different story. She was more worried that this was a cult and that Jundo was going to call me to Japan because of my 'Zen' nature. :roll: But after I talked to her a bit and she did some research herself, she found that it was my choice and a good one at that. She still is a little unsure, but better now. I still joke with her about it. Our common conversation could goes as follows:
Mom: "So, err, what are you typing? Is that your friends?"
Kyle: "Yeah Mom, we are talking about how to mix Kool-aide correctly for an upcoming retreat." *chuckle*
She is pretty tolerant and is okay with different viewpoints.

Some people have reacted differently, some are intrigued, some believe I should be farting lotus blossoms and adorning orange robes with a shaved head.

Unless someone expresses an interest it's not something I would bring up.

Same.

Gassho,
Kyle

[kfrance0]

I haven't come right out and told anyone in my family, though I doubt they'd much care. They probably have noticed the buddha statue I put under a nice tree in my back yard, though. :-) People at work...well, I've only mentioned it to a couple that I think of as friends. Some of the other guys would turn it into a big joke, and I'd just rather not deal with all that. I have my religion listed as buddhist on Facebook, and a lot of my co-workers have access to me on there, so I guess they can figure it out if they're interested enough to look and/or ask me directly.

Actually, now that I think about it, my department manager knows, too--I asked him about taking off a couple hours early on thursdays to go to a zen group here in town. He's been very cool about it, but I haven't been comfortable doing it more than a couple of times. It leaves the evening shift with one fewer rad techs to shoot x-rays right at a time when things sometimes start to get a bit busy.

[mum21andtwins]

Unless someone expresses an interest it's not something I would bring up.

Same.

Gassho,
Kyle

same here too it like so many aspects of our lives that peope here look strangly at (home educating breastfeeding homebirth) unless they ask its not worth the hassle usually

[SunnyP]

mum21andtwins, said

"same here too it like so many aspects of our lives that peope here look strangly at (home educating breastfeeding homebirth) unless they ask its not worth the hassle usually"

Hi mum21and twins,

I have already caught all sorts of drama over home educating my step daughter. I would imagine it would be about the same reaction from all of them because they are all devout Christians. So in the mean time, i will keep it between my husband and I.

Thank you,
Paula

[disastermouse]

When I started, I just flat out told people - pretty much everybody. Everyone was aware of it and I was completely unashamed about it. The few people in my family who had trips - I just ignored it completely.

It's only later now that I've mellowed out enough to soften it for my family...although after talking with my mom about life, death, and everything one night recently, she asked, 'where does that wisdom come from in you?'. I said, 'Because I'm Buddhist, mom.'

Chet

[mum21andtwins]

oh the drama one can get because of home education ridiculous :roll:

When I started, I just flat out told people - pretty much everybody. Everyone was aware of it and I was completely unashamed about it. The few people in my family who had trips - I just ignored it completely.

Its not about shame though (at least not for me) Whenever there is something my relatives disagree with it will be brought up again and again and again. there is only so many times you can pass the beandip before it starts to affect me or hubby or the kids. so when there are things like this that I know will put those people into aggresive argumenting mode (which really is "I am right you are wrong amd I will carry on until I see blue and you agree with me mode" ) more I just don't bring it up because its not worth the hassle it brings me.

[T.L.Wolf]

The woman who shares my life does not share the Dharma, she could not care less and all is well. Could not be better.

Fifteen years ago, my wife introduced me to the dharma path by asking me one simple question: "Why do you feel the need to do that?"
While the "that" is unimportant to this story, her question triggered a chain of thought that made me think about why, taking me down, down, down, all the way to the root of "that". When I finally saw it, I felt foolish for laboring with it for so long, making it easy to let go of. And while I am still endlessly digging for the roots of "thats" both ancient and recent, I will never forget her first question that put the shovel in my hand. I consider her to be one of my greatest teachers. She is incredibly supportive of my practice and a wonderful model for living in the here and now.
Funny thing is, she isn't a Buddhist. Never was, has no desire to be, rolls her eyes if she even thinks I'm going to speak about dharma. She's never even read the liner notes in any of the hundred plus books I've collected on Buddhism. She just...is, and I still haven't figured out how. HA!

On the flip side, having been raised Pentecostal Christian (to the unwashed not in the know, think Catholic with more rules and a mystical twist) and the son of a minister, I don't bring it up. There was a time when I would have relished the look on my mother's face (yes, a female preacher) as I systematically drilled holes in each and every point of dogma and theology she holds dear...that is, until I asked myself "why". What would be the point? It would speak more of my own hang-ups to do so.
Thus I heard Taigu say:

The root of it all is the idea that what we see as our reality, what we believe in applies everywhere to everybody, everybody should see as we see, practice as we practice. We all have to be very careful with that one: in the name of truth, anybody can turn into a religious terrorist. Religions as institutions and groups live on this mind. Religions give people the opportunity to play with the most dangerous toys: hopes and fears.

At the end of the day, we all take certain things on faith. Even Buddhists.
Gassho, T

[disastermouse]

oh the drama one can get because of home education ridiculous :roll:

When I started, I just flat out told people - pretty much everybody. Everyone was aware of it and I was completely unashamed about it. The few people in my family who had trips - I just ignored it completely.

Its not about shame though (at least not for me) Whenever there is something my relatives disagree with it will be brought up again and again and again. there is only so many times you can pass the beandip before it starts to affect me or hubby or the kids. so when there are things like this that I know will put those people into aggresive argumenting mode (which really is "I am right you are wrong amd I will carry on until I see blue and you agree with me mode" ) more I just don't bring it up because its not worth the hassle it brings me.

Everyone's situation is different. I just did my own thing (punk rock, skateboarding, drinking and pot) in my junior year of HS and so...I just basically laid down the law as relates to me...so I had a very 'I'm Buddhist, go fuck yourself' attitude.

Chet

[Tb]

Hi.

Little late due to new work and livingsituation (may i should post in the "i'm still here thread"...).

I've been a "buddhist" for over 2 decades, so for me to take the step into the the jukai and "formal buddhistry" wasn't that big.
Neither was it for some of my family.
Others one the other hand took it another way, more on the side of "You're not christian!?!"
But i take it cool,not to much fuss.
If anyone asks i tell, but else it's no big deal.

But it's funny to see the "spectacle" i make in one of sweden's most "christianized towns", but it's not all bad, you get some good talks now and then...

Mtfbwy
Fugen

[Shonin]

For me noone reallly seems to care too much. As it's been a bigger part of my life as of late it often comes up in convos at work or with family. Anyone who has an issue with it knows better than to try to start an argument (while definitely not in line with the teachings of Zen , I have a tendency to tell someone exactly where they can go if they don't like it).

I do overhear snickers while meditating from time to time at work. Sometimes a co-worker, sometimes a customer. With the co-workers it's usually a joke and i'll respond with some horrid statement about the light of Jesus Christ. We laugh and move on. With the customers half the time they think i'm sleeping, just another oddity in their day.

As for fundie christians. Well they act rude to everyone. At least I can read.*shrug*

I do think it's funny to see someone's brain freeze while they compute there are options other than being christian. Before coming to Treeleaf an older woman during the Sun. rush mentioned it was a shame I had to work, because I couldn't go to church. I told her I didn't mind working on Sun. I wasn't christian so it was a pleasure to be there to serve them after their services. She made a comment about how it was sad to hear I didn't have spirituality in my life. She wasn't mean natured at all, but it was obvious that in her eyes, there were only Christians and atheists. So I told her I did have spirituality in my life I just wasn't Christian. She was just confused and dropped it on a good note.

Dave

[disastermouse]

Hi.

Little late due to new work and livingsituation (may i should post in the "i'm still here thread"...).

I've been a "buddhist" for over 2 decades, so for me to take the step into the the jukai and "formal buddhistry" wasn't that big.
Neither was it for some of my family.
Others one the other hand took it another way, more on the side of "You're not christian!?!"
But i take it cool,not to much fuss.
If anyone asks i tell, but else it's no big deal.

But it's funny to see the "spectacle" i make in one of sweden's most "christianized towns", but it's not all bad, you get some good talks now and then...

Mtfbwy
Fugen

It was my understanding that Sweden and the rest of Scandinavia is becoming more and more agnostic.

Is my understanding wrong? You should SEE what it's like in the rural Southeast U.S.

Chet

[KellyRok]

Hello all,

In my situation, well not too many people know about me practicing Buddhism. My family (my mom and siblings) knows and are very open and receptive to it. I grew up being forced to go to Catholic Mass every Sunday, but as time went on, my parents began questioning things. My dad studied alot about the Native American and Celtic cultures and eventually gave up going to Church.

My inlaws...well, they are a different story. My Mother-in-Law is very much Christian to the bone and very judgmental of anything outside of her realm of understanding and feelings of security. I haven't told them, but I don't try to hide if from them either. I have Buddhist books in my home and there is a buddha statue in my meditation space as well as in my children's rooms. I guess I'm waiting for them to ask questions. I'm a little bit afraid of the reaction I'm going to get from them. I'll keep you posted if and when that cat gets let out of the bag...so to speak :wink: .

My husband does not practice...well, he doesn't practice anything spiritually, but he is very supportive of me and my practice. He is becoming more and more curious and he asks me a lot of questions that I'm not really sure I can answer yet.

My best friend is very much a Christian, but she has accepted me for who I am...she asks questions out of interest and not judgement. She has even asked me to help her meditate.

I guess I feel that I need to give people a chance to accept it or not. Afterall that is their choice. I don't try to have control over their feelings, I just trust that they will get to know me for me and the rest will work itself out.

Great topic Paula!
Gassho,
Kelly (Jinmei)

[Tb]

Hi.

Little late due to new work and livingsituation (may i should post in the "i'm still here thread"...).

I've been a "buddhist" for over 2 decades, so for me to take the step into the the jukai and "formal buddhistry" wasn't that big.
Neither was it for some of my family.
Others one the other hand took it another way, more on the side of "You're not christian!?!"
But i take it cool,not to much fuss.
If anyone asks i tell, but else it's no big deal.

But it's funny to see the "spectacle" i make in one of sweden's most "christianized towns", but it's not all bad, you get some good talks now and then...

Mtfbwy
Fugen

It was my understanding that Sweden and the rest of Scandinavia is becoming more and more agnostic.

Is my understanding wrong? You should SEE what it's like in the rural Southeast U.S.

Chet

Hi.

Well, yes and no.
We're more drawn to "extremes", either you're CHRISTIAN or you're NOT!
But more and more folks are drawn towards the NOT!
But those who are'nt are more and more "militaristic" in their beliefs.

Mtfbwy
Fugen

[Shohei]

Hi Late to the thread!

Key things for me that i learned they may/may not be of any help or use. Not everyone, Family or other, will agree/like/care/understand/ could be assed to listen to what it is your up to when "doing" this wonderful practice. Also exactly what some others said. Don't explain, show. Let your actions show them what your up to. At the same time do not AVOID the conversations and do not hide away to practice. Finally do not give one thought further to what a person thinks of your practice. Thats what i have learned.

Reactions have been varied and my personal attempts to put into words have often moved people in the way i had hoped it would not! (im not very articulate). My wife tells me to sit (lol time out) when im out of sorts and she noticed and comments regularly on the the benifical changes shes witnessed in me since starting on this path/standing in this field. My folks too.

A wonderful coworker here asked me to let jesus in to my heart so i wouldnt go to hell when he came to judge us. She was saying this as a "hail mary" attempt to show me A) the error of my ways and B) doing here damnedest to save my ass as she thought it was saveable and worth saving. I came to see it as a kind gesture. She was genuinely concerned for my well being.

Gassho
Shohei

[Shohei]

My experience has shown me that 'Living Buddha, Living Christ' has had some moderating effect on my family. For my mom, I just translate Buddhist teachings into the relevant Catholic ones (there are a lot, actually).

After you become a bit more established as a Buddhist, it's easier to speak to others in whatever religious 'language' they use.

Chet

^^ sheesh missed that and I would 100% agree. Worked well here at work when the coversation came up - which it did for awhile, Alot... i do any online sittings here due to networking constraints at home, and so a few times i would take the afternoon off and participate in what ever (last years jukai for example,) in my office and one wall is glass so i had a few spectators. anywho i ramble on.
Thanks Chet very good advice there.

Gassho
Shohei

[SunnyP]

Hi Everyone,

Wow, this has been a great thread. Thank you all for your input, it has been very helpful for me.

Paula

[Hoko]

Everyone has given such great advice! I am not sure what more I could add; but let me give it a shot.

Like all of you, I have my own experiences with supporters and detractors and as I am an orthodontist who treats children in a primarily Christian suburb, my business would likely suffer if I went around waving the "Buddhist flag" in everyone's face.
How I dress, how I act, the decor of my facilities and whether or not I show up at the big "mega-church" every Sunday all have an impact on the growth of my practice.
We cannot deny the importance of our public image even as we struggle to break apart the everlasting ego.
I wear the "mask" I wear because it is lucrative and well received but I assure you it is just a mask.

But here's the irony: the more Zen Buddhist I act; the more I "actualize the way" the more people seem to get along with me and enjoy my company. This enhances my business and my business relationships.
So in my experience, I enjoy the fruits of my intentions more when I announce them less.

Here is an interesting excerpt from Buddhist author Jack Kornfield:

We cannot escape the fact of our family background and the wounds it inflicts. Nor can we impose our spiritual ideals on our family. One young woman who had become very involved in our Buddhist practice returned to her parent’s home. She struggled with their Christian Fundamentalism for a time, until she sorted things out. The she sent a letter back to the monastery stating, “My parents hate me when I’m a Buddhist, but they love me when I’m a Buddha.” This is our task: to awaken the Buddha in facing our family karma.

So Paula, I am risking the big cliche here, but I would tell you to find the Middle Way between hiding your pursuit and flaunting it.
You stand to gain little from either extreme. Not that gaining is your goal, of course! :wink:

Finally I would point out that we are all very fortunate to have this amazing experiment of Jundo's to enjoy.
Treeleaf Zendo affords us the chance to interact with like-minded people and to have experiences we would otherwise never obtain.
If you want to create good karma, write the man a thank you e-mail if the inspiration strikes!

Gassho,
-K2

[SunnyP]

Hi K2,

Thank you very much for your post. I am just taking all this knowledge and just living day to day. I am not looking to put anyone in my life in an uproar, i am on a path for myself. What they think is unimportant and the people that do matter the most to me know and are accepting of my decision. Thank you, again

Paula

[Marina S]

I agree with Keishin. Some things are to be experienced rather than explained, especially when we're just learning. I have an acquaintance who meditates sporadically. In the past, he's often shared his experiences about his meditation sessions as though something other-worldly or magical had taken place, but these were just ideas/lingo he got from the many books he read on the subject. Things take time. It's hard to describe, but I've observed how people, for the most part, become more accepting when I "live" my spiritual path rather than talk about it.

[SunnyP]

Thank you Marina.

Paula

[frjames]

Zen practice and Christianity/Catholicism need not conflict.

My interest in Zen began when I was writing my graduate thesis on St. John of the Cross' Dark Night of the Soul and the Great Doubt of Buddhism. My thesis chair suggested that I look into Zen Buddhism. Two years after writing that thesis and newly ordained as a Catholic priest, I went in to a Zen Buddhist temple and asked the Roshi to teach me to sit. But not before I told him that I'm a Catholic priest. He quickly replied: "No contradiction between Buddhism and Catholic!" He then pointed me to the cushion and did Zazen with me--chants, incense, kyosako, the whole thing! That was over 20 years ago.

That honorable roshi was Rev. Dr. Soyu Zengaku Matsouka, one of the pioneers who brought Zen to the U.S. I believe his words still ring true today: "There is no contradiction between Buddhism and Catholic!" Such an enlightened statement is what makes Zen acceptable to those who choose to be enlightened without abandoning their own faith. (I admit, however, that is not often the case on the other side, my own Church included).

Much of the West's initial exposure to Zen was from the Jesuit missionary efforts in Japan during the 1700's. And the Jesuits continue to "expose" Zen to this very day. Many, although still committed to their Faith, have "preached" and practiced Zazen. Father William Johnston has written extensively on Zen and Christian practice. He himself has established a zendo in Tokyo to teach students at Sofia University how to sit. http://ccbs.ntu.edu.tw/FULLTEXT/JR-EPT/william1.htm and http://www.thezensite.com/ZenBookReview ... nment.html

And before him, Father Heinrich Dumoulin. http://www.thezensite.com/ZenBookReview ... nment.html

And yet another is the founder Morning Star Zendo (http://kennedyzen.tripod.com/). Father Robert Kennedy, S.J., Roshi, is a Jesuit priest and Zen teacher in the White Plum lineage. He studied with Yamada Roshi in Kamakura, Japan, with Maezumi Roshi in Los Angeles, and with Glassman Roshi in New York. Glassman Roshi installed Kennedy as sensei in 1991 and conferred Inka (his final seal of approval) in 1997, making him a roshi (master).

Here's a complete roundup: http://jesuskoan.blogspot.com/2008/12/buddha-sj.html

There is much that Zen can offer those who are open to it. "There are many things in Zen Buddhism in which are baffling, contradictory, and almost incomprehensible. At the same time, thinking and praying in the Buddhist tradition is encouraged and even mandated by Vatican II and by the thrust of Catholic teachings since that time." http://kennedyzen.tripod.com/retreat_drinan.htm

Deep bows to all,

Fr. James.

[disastermouse]

Pat Hawk Roshi in Tucson is also a Catholic priest.

Chet