For Maezumi

[Taigu]

Hi everybody. Don't know why but felt like writing this stuff this afternoon. You certainly know of course about Maezumi and the way he broke a few precepts big time. And although I don't agree at all with the way Brad thinks it is all OK, nothing coud be further from the truth, I have a very soft spot for Maezumi and refuse to judge the guy.

There is a great video if you want to have a look, it is about zazen, life and being who we are:
http://player.omroep.nl/?aflID=7098293

and this is the pompous and clumsy poem:



Sun-faced Buddha
Moon-faced Buddha
Obscured-yet-clear
The empty cloud
drifts

From a sake cup
to a woman's lips

From kids arms and giggles
to the silent fruit of sitting

it drifts
Clear-yet-obscured
Mistaken and true

the cloud
in him-you-me

The cloud
roams
the invisible old path
treeless, roadless,
the way of nobody
going nowhere

this

ever

changing

This

[will]

Nine bows

and this is the pompous and clumsy poem:

Whether clumsy or not, a poem it is.

[Jinho]

Um, why are you bringing this up?

rowan

[Jinho]

Um, to continue, I have read two articles by Brad on his website.

In one he insults and dismisses the experience of kensho, saying that all the descriptions he has heard of people's kensho experiences seem worthless (um, kensho is explicitly stated in all the rinzai literature to un-expressible). In the other he goes on and on about not wanting to be famous. I am not sure why he is worried about this, since fame is patently a numbers issue (many people know who you are = fame, only few people know who you are = not-fame). Frankly anyone writing such delusions (and making a point of keeping them on his personal website) does not seem worth bothering with.

However, Maezumi has written some of the finest zen writings of the 20th century.

IN deference to the privacy of the three women involved, I think what happened 35 years ago should remain in the past.

[Jinho]

Hi everybody. Don't know why but felt like writing this stuff this afternoon. You certainly know of course about Maezumi and the way he broke a few precepts big time.

Um, I very much doubt that people actually know what happened. I was there at the time (though on the periphery) and *I* don;'t know what happened.

gassho,
rowan

[Taigu]

Um...Jinho, what do I bring this up? well, your three posts are an eloquent answer.
It does stir stuff in you. Doesn'it?
I should have put it in the section about the precepts but...
the poem is a attempt to express the merging of the relative and the absolute within our practice. It is not about Maezumi but about anybody. Drop Maezumi, drop your own knowledge and non knowledge and you stand a chance to find out that you have a great pair of ears and a great broad heart... :wink:
The harshness with which you speak about Brad could be also looked at and checked by your own insightful mind. Brad also has a real annoying effect on me sometimes, and yet it is really my issue not his. I do find that the people pushing my buttons are as close as my stinking deluded self as possible. Don't you?

And last but not least, I sometimes like to throw stones in the water.

I hope my answer helps.

Thanks Will.


Nine bows to both of you.

Taigu

[Tb]

Um...Jinho, what do I bring this up? well, your three posts are an eloquent answer.
It does stir stuff in you. Doesn'it?
I should have put it in the section about the precepts but...
the poem is a attempt to express the merging of the relative and the absolute within our practice. It is not about Maezumi but about anybody. Drop Maezumi, drop your own knowledge and non knowledge and you stand a chance to find out that you have a great pair of ears and a great broad heart... :wink:
The harshness with which you speak about Brad could be also looked at and checked by your own insightful mind. Brad also has a real annoying effect on me sometimes, and yet it is really my issue not his. I do find that the people pushing my buttons are as close as my stinking deluded self as possible. Don't you?

And last but not least, I sometimes like to throw stones in the water.

I hope my answer helps.

Thanks Will.


Nine bows to both of you.

Taigu

Hi.

"Plop".

The problem with "throwing stones in the water" is that it goes " NEEEIIIOOOUUUHHH" over your head...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9KK3FlVC2w&feature=related[/video]] ... re=related

Mtfbwy
Tb

[chicanobudista]

Getting a bit off topic, maybe, what's a good book on or by Maezumi? :?:

[Shohei]

Pardon my newb-ness but I hadn't until now, to the best of my recollection, heard Maezumi Roshi. Ill check out the posted links when im @ work and have the bandwidth at my disposal. I don't want to pass judgement on anyone...lest they do the same to me - and im sure that wouldnt be a pretty review. Im pretty sure I have broken ALL the precepts in some point in my life and even lately... and will again.

Gassho

[Jundo]

Getting a bit off topic, maybe, what's a good book on or by Maezumi? :?:

Hi,

I sat with a Sangha in Maezumi Roshi's lineage for many years, both before and after I was ordained, consider that Sangha's teacher (Doshin Cantor) one of my teachers ... it is perhaps the largest lineage in North America (including people ranging from Bernie Glassman to Genpo Merzel to Daido Loori to Joko Beck to Chozen Bays to Joan Halifax to Father Robert Kennedy to many others). A powerful lineage with great teachers. I am a big Bernie Glassman/Daido/Joko Beck fan in particular.

Perhaps Maezumi Roshi's "main" book is this one. It is a goodie (get the newer 2002 edition, not the 1970's version) ...

http://www.amazon.com/Zen-Practice-Body ... 750&sr=8-1

also, this is a very nice collection of his talks ...

http://www.amazon.com/Appreciate-Your-L ... gy_b_img_b

The particular flavor of their lineage is that it is a mix of Rinzai and Soto, with a primary emphasis on "Koan Zazen" and (at least for many of their teachers) achieving "Kensho" ... I spoke about that in another post today ...

viewtopic.php?p=20860#p20860

They practice Shikanataza too, although sometimes through the lens of "Koan Zazen" and achieving Kensho. Anyway, that is my feeling. I wrote about that yesterday in a discussion of one of their root teachers, Yasutani Roshi ...

viewtopic.php?p=20806#p20806

But great and wonderful teachers. As I said, different ways to hold the racket ... same game of "no net, no score" tennis.

I feel that what happened to Maezumi Roshi and many teachers (in Maezumi's case, there was a drinking problem and some affairs with students) just shows my point that, no matter how long we practice this Zazen thiing ... and no matter how much we "master" its ways and see through the "self" ... we are still "selfs" until we leave this world. It is no different for Maezumi Roshi or Alan with his pharmacy perscription ... we are always humans with human emotions that we need to manage like a hungry tiger or inner caveman (I spoke about this on the sit-a-long this week ... gosh, I get to quote myself right and left today! 8) That does not excuse acting in hurtful ways to others or oneself, but human beings act badly sometimes ... even folks who have the Precepts to guide them.

http://blog.beliefnet.com/treeleafzen/2 ... essed.html

Someone on ZFI pointed folks to a lovely interview with the current abbot of Maezumi Roshi's Zen Center in LA (ZCLA), Wendy Egyoku Nakao. She was there during the early years of ZCLA, and gives a candid interview on many topics, including Maezumi Roshi's drinking here. It is a 2 hour interview, and she discusses Maezumi Roshi's stumbling in the middle.

Part 1: http://www.urbandharma.org/mp3/ZCLA-1.mp3

Part 2: http://www.urbandharma.org/mp3/ZCLA-2.mp3

Part 3: http://www.urbandharma.org/mp3/ZCLA-3.mp3

I think she handles that as a realist, with an open mind. None of us are "perfect", but we are all "perfectly who we are" and try to get through life leaving it a little better.

Gassho, Jundo

[Jinho]

post deleted

[Shohei]

Thank you for the information Jundo.

Gassho, Shohei