Kyogi Say What? Rev R Will B collaboration

[will]

Ok ladies and Gents. We've got a couple of dharma troublemakers in da house.

Beat master REV R on the drums. I don't even have to tell you what kind of trouble he's causing with those sick beats. Watch out.

With all my heart

Enjoy

Gassho Will

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_mu ... dID=698608

Words:

What am I gonna do with this Buddha Mind
I guess I'll bust a Rhyme


We are all children of the Buddha
come into this world with Buddha-Mind
failing to realize this,
we lead selfish, willful lives,
causing ourselves much suffering.
That's not the best

take refuge in the buddha, your spirits will come to rest,

our lives will experience harmony and the rest, and
we'll rejoice in being of service
We'll also experience that deep faith in us
stand up under any hardship
To discover happiness

[Shohei]

Nice work fellas!
Great tune! sorry i don't have much of a background in music besides know whats i likes- I likes Dis!

Gassho
Dirk

[Jun]

"The children of Buddha?!!!"

mmmm.....

Excellent beats. A superb collaboration!

Will your vocals are fine, but the lyrics [the wording of Sõtõ-shu according to their site] cuts against the grain.

[Steve]

The guitars and the beats are one, and yet not one. Going to be hard sitting still with it popping in my head tonight.



Great work on the collaboration. Some bad-ass drums there Rev. Thanks!

[will]

Hey Jun. Thanks for bringing that up.

These are the words that I went from:

http://www.sotozen-net.or.jp/kokusai/sotozenschool.htm

We are all children of the Buddha and come into this world endowed with the Buddha-Mind (busshin). However, failing to realize this, we live selfish, willful lives, causing ourselves much suffering.

If we make repentance to the Buddha and take refuge in him, our spirits will come to rest, our lives will experience harmony and light, and we will rejoice in being of service to society. We will also experience the deep faith that will allow us to stand up under any hardship. To discover happiness and a life worth living here is the teaching of the Soto Zen School.

Jun
Will your vocals are fine, but the lyrics [the wording of Sõtõ-shu according to their site] cuts against the grain.

How so?

I tried to stay as faithful as possible to the the original words.

I know the chorus could probably be misleading. I was a little reluctant about that.

Pardon my spelling (Kyogi)

Gassho Will

[will]

I'm going to change it.

Gassho Will

[Jun]

I tried to stay as faithful as possible to the the original words.

Will, it's the original words that cut against the grain, not your singing.

"Repent to the Buddha?" Thankfully you left that one out, but "Children of the Buddha?"

To me it smells of Jodo-shu (Pure land) or Christianity.

It's just me, not to worry. You all should ignore me on this one, hum-bug!

gassho

Ps. My wife wants to say that she thought it sounded like a cult song or a Christian song. It made her immediately think that in your eyes Buddha is a god. I showed her the original words on the Sõtõ-shu site and she just rolled here eyes!

She suggested it should say we are the followers of the Buddha.

[will]

I agree to an extent. I'm not really down with that either. That's why I was reluctant about keeping it. The new chorus will be "We are Buddha"

Gassho Will

[Jun]

Don't change it on my accord Will. My abrasiveness is not something to go by!

See what others think first.

We are Buddha is excellent!

Mind is Buddha - Buddha is mind. Without the mind how can there be Buddha?

[Rev R]

Well to be honest I didn't really mind the lyric as it was, but then again I don't think lyrically, so what do I know.

I am curious as to how "We are Buddha" is going to fit the melody though, you are the poet so I trust your judgment.

Thanks for the compliments and the listens.

Somebody call the doctor 'cause these beats are sick!

:twisted:

[Jundo]

Hi Guys,

I love the tune.

Just a comment on the quote from the Soto-shu homepage. "Soto-shu" is a giant institution, much like the Catholic Church. It expresses its "theology" in many different ways, sometimes "hard" and sometimes "easy to digest", depending on the writer and the audience. Most people who are members of the Soto Church in Japan (the English page is just a translation of the Japanese page) are not interested in the "deeper" aspects of Buddhist philosophy, Dogen ... they are not even interested in Zazen. They are just the Japanese equivalent of little old ladies who go to mass on Sunday.

What I am getting at is the homepage, and many Soto pamphlets and such, tend to express Soto doctrine in simple, easy to grasp, "feel good" ways and slogans for the masses (the Zen equivalent of "God is Love" or "We are all God's children") without getting too deep. I would take "We are all children of the Buddha" on that level.

Now, on the subject of Buddhas and children, please be sure to catch my blog talk today.

http://treeleafzen.blogspot.com/2008/01 ... xviii.html

It's like that scene at the end of 2001, A Space Odyssey, man, where he turns into a baby. It will blow your mind!



Gassho, Jundo

[Jun]

One of the reasons I try to stay far away from religious institutions.

Ritual complexities, and garbled interpretations, no matter how well intended, can cause quite a bit of confusion.

The general populace doesn't see things in quite the same way, with differing levels and understandings.

I'm sure we all understand the message behind that general "feel good" wording, but for those on the outside looking in...........

Gassho

[will]

Thanks for clearing that up Jundo. In the future I'll probably be asking you some questions.

The Kyogi still has some great stuff in it though, that sounds good to me.

The new copy is ready for download.

Gassho Will

[Jun]

I'll just read through posts and keep my thoughts to myself from now on. Sorry to create turbulence.

As Jundo says, whatever floats your boat.

[will]

That was entirely my decision dude. I wasn't really content with the way it was. We are Buddha seems to suit better. Why would you want to keep your wise ass comments to yourself? That's no fun.

G, W

[Jun]

That was entirely my decision dude. I wasn't really content with the way it was. We are Buddha seems to suit better. Why would you want to keep your wise ass comments to yourself? That's no fun.

G, W

I don't want to come across as the pin in the pie Will. I don't want to sound like a wise arse either.

[paige]

In Chinese liturgy, I've seen 佛子 (Buddha's sons) used quite a bit. I think it usually refers to people who've taken refuge. But sometimes it seems to mean the community of monks and nuns.

Unfortunately, my computer's kind of busted and the audio's out. So I didn't get the chance to hear your new tunes. I'll definitely give it a listen when my system's back up!

[Jun]

No offence intended Will, my wife says it sounds like a Hare Krishna song.

Hi Paige, 佛子 is used often yes. And it is pretty much as you say - referring to those who have taken "refuge."

[will]

Hare Krishna? Alright. I guess. They must be pretty hip.

I don't want to come across as the pin in the pie Will. I don't want to sound like a wise arse either.

That's entirely up to you my man.

Gassho Will

[Jundo]

I don't want to come across as the pin in the pie Will. I don't want to sound like a wise arse either.

You sound like a child of the Buddha! Keep the comments coming. We need some folks around here who speak their mind, and I can't be the only wise arse.

Gassho, J

[Jun]

I don't want to come across as the pin in the pie Will. I don't want to sound like a wise arse either.

You sound like a child of the Buddha! Keep the comments coming. We need some folks around here who speak their mind, and I can't be the only wise arse.

Gassho, J

Well, that comes as a shock to me actually.

Back in Australia when I spoke my mind at the Buddhist Council I was asked (told actually) to leave, and at three other "Buddhist" forums I was told to shut up or leave!

Gassho

[paige]

No offence intended Will, my wife says it sounds like a Hare Krishna song.

Curse you! Now you've got that stuck in my head.

...Rama Rama... Hare Hare...

Arrgh!

[Rev R]

Jun,

If you weren't as cuddly as sandpaper, I wouldn't love you bro.


Will,

I was happy with it before. I'm happy with it now. If you change it everyday for the next ten years, I'll be happy with it. I'm glad to have had the opportunity to work with you on a tune. We will have to do it again.

Paige,
Hi!

Jundo,

I had something smart aleck to say here, but I forgot what it was. Thanks for listening.


Now, someone said something about pie?

[Dainin]

Hey Will & Everyone,

I hate to be a stick-in-the-mud (pin-in-the-pie), but I feel a need to comment about a certain feeling/attitude that I have gotten from this thread. First, Will, I apologize up front that I haven't listened to your tune yet (I am blocked from listening to it at work), so I can't comment on it, but it sounds interesting. Please know I'm not trying to highjack this thread.

Most people who are members of the Soto Church in Japan (the English page is just a translation of the Japanese page) are not interested in the "deeper" aspects of Buddhist philosophy, Dogen ... they are not even interested in Zazen. They are just the Japanese equivalent of little old ladies who go to mass on Sunday.

Jundo, this comment made me bristle a bit. I realize you did not say anything was (for lack of a better word) "wrong" with this, but it seems like you're inferring that. As a former practicing Catholic, I loved those old ladies. Yeah, they may not have understood the "deeper" theology behind Christianity (yes, there is some), but I often found them (and others like them) far more balanced and compassionate than the stuffy, egotistical clergy who had Ph.D.'s and whatnot. And I'm finding the same with the Buddhist community.

Who really cares if those folks don't understand deep Buddhist philosophy or even if they don't practice zazen? Who cares if those folks in Harry's pic are "gettin' the Spirit"? Are they compassionate people trying their best? I guess what I'm saying is that I get very tired of elitist/fundamentalist attitude in any form. Treeleaf is one of the places that I've found that has the least amount, which is one of the aspects I love about this place. But it creeps in. To me, Buddhism and even zazen are simply all skillful means to try to live a balanced, happy, compassionate life, but they certainly are not the only ones. They may work for us. Terrific. But it’s not for everyone. Even Buddha said that. I could say more but I’ve said way too much here already.

Anyway, sorry to interrupt! I guess I'm feeling on the cranky side this morning.

Gassho,
Keith

[will]

Ritual complexities, and garbled interpretations, no matter how well intended, can cause quite a bit of confusion.

I missed this.

Yes. Sometimes. I'm a big sitter, so I don't want to give anyone the wrong idea about practice. Just kind of wanted to take those words that have truth in them and put some music to them. I was trusting that their words rang true to Soto practice. They seemed somewhat true. I've learned something here. Great.

Next tune will probably have a warning sticker referring everyone to the Treeleaf blog and a picture of Robo Buddha :wink:

Gassho Will

[Dainin]

Hey Harry,

You seem to have read quite a lot into my two lines.

Not only yours.

On the other hand those beliefs (and the power structures, influences and general psychology/philosophy that arose and are associated with them) have contributed to much suffering in the world.

Agreed.

Best,
Keith

[Bansho]

Hi guys,

I think that judging other people’s practice is always condemned to failure, since its always a matter of being on the outside looking in. We can never really see what’s going on inside from someone elses perspective and therefore can never really say with any certainty whether their practice is of soteriological value to them or not. As Jundo once said, even if his practice is wrong, it works for him. Who could argue with that? :wink:

Gassho
Ken

[TracyF]

Some people like their traditions. They don't care what they mean. They don't even care if they believe them or not. I think my Dad has been agnostic most his adult life but he still goes to the Catholic Church with my Mom every Sunday.

Back to topic. Rev's comment here...

If you change it everyday for the next ten years, I'll be happy with it.

...gave me an idea. Will, you should write a song called Impermanence and keep changing it! :lol:

I love your work. I played the Heart Sutra for my daughter this morning while she was getting ready. She's usually a little crabby until she wakes some more but she bounced right out of bed (ok, I'm exaggerating a little but there was a clear improvement :lol: ).

[will]

Gassho Will

[will]

BTW I told you we were Dharma trouble makers.

G,W

[Jundo]

I realize you did not say anything was (for lack of a better word) "wrong" with this, but it seems like you're inferring that. As a former practicing Catholic, I loved those old ladies. Yeah, they may not have understood the "deeper" theology behind Christianity (yes, there is some), but I often found them (and others like them) far more balanced and compassionate than the stuffy, egotistical clergy who had Ph.D.'s and whatnot. And I'm finding the same with the Buddhist community.

Who really cares if those folks don't understand deep Buddhist philosophy or even if they don't practice zazen? Who cares if those folks in Harry's pic are "gettin' the Spirit"? Are they compassionate people trying their best? I guess what I'm saying is that I get very tired of elitist/fundamentalist attitude in any form. Treeleaf is one of the places that I've found that has the least amount, which is one of the aspects I love about this place. But it creeps in. To me, Buddhism and even zazen are simply all skillful means to try to live a balanced, happy, compassionate life, but they certainly are not the only ones. They may work for us. Terrific. But it’s not for everyone. Even Buddha said that. I could say more but I’ve said way too much here already.

Hi Keith,

I agree. I often say "many roads up the mountain", and I do think that everyone has to choose their own music and religion. I love those little old ladies too. I do not even think that Buddhism, let alone Zen Buddhism, is for everyone. Some people may do better with other religions. Within Buddhism too, some folks need an Amida or Kannon in the sky to pray too, and that is how they relate. Good for them. I am certainly not a believer in any kind of fundamentalism (heck, even Master Dogen was just a guy with his own viewpoint(s), although a pretty wise guy I think).

But, I am something of an elitist, and I make no apology. I teach what I teach for those with an ear attuned to it and who can hear it, and for whom it is the right road. The subtle aspects of Zen Buddhism have generally not been appreciated by the popular masses, who are often more comfortable with other types of religious or personal belief.

Gassho, Jundo

[Rev R]

I often say "many roads up the mountain", and I do think that everyone has to choose their own music and religion. I love those little old ladies too. I do not even think that Buddhism, let alone Zen Buddhism, is for everyone. Some people may do better with other religions. Within Buddhism too, some folks need an Amida or Kannon in the sky to pray too, and that is how they relate. Good for them. I am certainly not a believer in any kind of fundamentalism (heck, even Master Dogen was just a guy with his own viewpoint(s), although a pretty wise guy I think).

I can dig it. Everybody has different needs from a "spiritual" perspective.

Kinda like a lemon meringue pie. Some really like the fluffy bits, some like the filling, some like to get to the crust.

But, I am something of an elitist, and I make no apology.

I think we all are to a degree

[Dainin]

Hey Jundo,

But, I am something of an elitist, and I make no apology. I teach what I teach for those with an ear attuned to it and who can hear it, and for whom it is the right road. The subtle aspects of Zen Buddhism have generally not been appreciated by the popular masses, who are often more comfortable with other types of religious or personal belief.

Yes, of course. As a teacher myself I agree. You teach what you teach and in the way that you teach, and if it doesn't fit with some, no problem. They are free to seek out another way. I'm just glad you don't call them asswipes! :wink:

Gassho,
Keith

PS Will, sorry for taking your thread in another direction. I'll shut up now!

[will]

No problem.

Gassho Will