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Thread: The Zen Master's Dance - 23 - King of Samadhis (Top of p. 84 to End of Chapter)

  1. #1

    The Zen Master's Dance - 23 - King of Samadhis (Top of p. 84 to End of Chapter)

    Dear Sitters, Cross Legged and Other Ways,

    We will finish the chapter "Samadhi That Is The King Of Samadhis," from the top of p. 84 ("The Buddha Shakyamuni addressed a great assembly ... ") until the end of the chapter. This is the mid-point in the book, so we will pause here for awhile, continue later. From next time, we will look at a few more Koans from the Book of Equanimity:

    https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/foru...-of-Equanimity

    Then we will spend some weeks with Homeless Kodo Sawaki's wonderful and unique "To You":

    https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/show...xt-book-To-You

    For today, we will look at this big finish of the chapter, about Samadhi and "Cross-Legged Sitting."

    Shikantaza is a wisely-strange animal, in which we regularly attain the calm and clarity, lightness and wisdom of Samadhi, but specifically by not running after Samadhi. This Samadhi is found when we put down all the effort and chasing. As well, we uphold the goodness of Zazen even when no particular Samadhi state occurs. I wrote this in an essay to explain a bit:

    So, what is the place of ... deep samadhi states in Shikantaza, the "Just Sitting Which Hits the Mark," the way of Zazen which is the centerpiece of Soto practice?

    The answer is that we cherish and celebrate such states, honor ... and welcome samadhi when samadhi comes. However, we believe that samadhi which emerges from anything but an attitude of radical goallessness simply feeds the very hunger and thirst for gain that is the root of Dukkha suffering. It becomes one more pleasure and treasure to chase after and enjoy. It is this very hunt and hunger that we need to drop away in the grand equanimity and fulfillment of liberation.

    So many schools of meditation make levels of concentration and spiritual attainment but more rungs to reach, finish lines to cross, payoffs to earn, prizes to stive for. It is literally "self-defeating," as the little self's very own hunger and hunting, reaching and striving is, in fact, the source of the very suffering from which it seeks relief.

    Our solution to this dilemma in Shikantaza is to drop, to the marrow, all hunting and reaching, except for sitting itself for sitting's sake! Zazen must be good for nothing but sitting! Then, sitting itself is the treasure attained, sitting itself is the goal reached, all just by sitting. Without such radical goallessness and foresaking of all cravings for goals, meditation becomes another ploy to feed never ending, self-created feelings of human lack.

    ... For us Soto Zen folks, deep and pleasant samadhi will emerge in our Zazen, just as in the other schools of meditation, and it is wondrous! It is like an unsolicited treasure, for it arises right from our giving up of all need for finding, much like a door which unlocks only when we stop struggling to unlock it! The very act of dropping all need to turn the key leads to the door springing open! Such unsolicited samadhi is glorious!

    In fact, EVERYTHING is glorious!

    Everything is glorious because, in our equanimity, we equally honor and welcome as wondrous all the moments of Zazen without samadhi too! Both samadhi and the absence of samadhi are wondrous, and the total face of Zen samadhi! So many meditators make the mistake of thinking their meditation "good" only when they feel good and get what they want. In fact, Zazen is ALWAYS good ... both when it feels good and even when not, when we want just what we get.

    Why?

    It is something like saying that Shikantaza folks know the presence of the moon, not only on those clear and bright nights when the moon shines brightly, but also on the darkest and cloudiest nights. Only radical dropping of hunger to experience the moon can lead to a profound moon awareness which knows the moon both seen and unseen. We see the moon even on moonless nights, although not with the eyes. Then, on those cloudless evenings when the moon reveals itself in its fullness, and also on the nights when not, our trust is rewarded: The moon is always shining, seen or unseen.

    Samadhi comes and samadhi goes, and we celebrate such coming and such going. True Zen samadhi is always present, whether come or gone, beyond coming and going.

    So deep, this samadhi cannot be fathomed.
    I also say that, although Master Dogen keeps talking about the "cross-legged posture" in this section, that is mostly because that is the typical way that monks sat. While cross-legged posture is a wonderful, balanced and stable way to sit for those who can, and contributes to a balanced and stable mind, it is NOT the case that only the cross-legged Lotus posture works some physiological magic that other stable and balanced, comfortable postures (e.g., chair or seiza bench sitting) cannot. What is more, I take Master Dogen's meaning actually to be that the ACT of Zazen, not the physical posture, is somehow complete, sacred and wondrous.

    Questions (please respond without looking at others' responses first):

    1 - Do you feel that you have ever experienced Samadhi in Zazen? If so, please do your best to express the experience in words.

    2 - Do you think that you are really getting the message that Zazen is itself a sacred, special, complete and wonderous act, not a tool to dig out some reward? (And that that is the reward! ) How would you express it?

    Gassho, Jundo

    STLah
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  2. #2
    Bumping the current section ...
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  3. #3
    Jundo, you asked really tough questions this time. So many people have come before and tried to answer questions like these and not quite hit the mark. Rather than trying to parrot someone else’s words this is my attempt in my own words. I expect I too have not been able to convey well in words what I know.

    1 - Do you feel that you have ever experienced Samadhi in Zazen? If so, please do your best to express the experience in words.


    Yes I believe I have experienced Samadhi in Zazen (and other times too). How to describe it? I’d say it is somewhat like the experience when a headache lifts. When I have a headache my head feels dull and cloudy but when my head lifts suddenly everything feels clear. Maybe another example, it is like having a heavy blanket lifted off your head. Suddenly there is a lightness that was missing. My feeling is that Samadhi is like that clarity or that heavy weight being lifted.


    2 - Do you think that you are really getting the message that Zazen is itself a sacred, special, complete and wonderous act, not a tool to dig out some reward? (And that that is the reward! ) How would you express it?

    I do think I have gotten the message. That doesn’t mean that I don’t sometimes wish there was more.

    How to describe it? Well frankly there is a bit of relief. It seems that I spend so much of my time thinking about the past or the future. Most activities I do during the day have some goal. When it comes time to sit my daily Zazen I approach it almost as if it was a vacation from all that thinking and goal setting. I can just sit there for my Zazen and just sit there, no expectations, nothing to accomplish, no one to prove anything to. But definitely not zoned out either. I am very conscious and alert.



    Tairin
    Sat today and lah
    泰林 - Tai Rin - Peaceful Woods

  4. #4
    I'm totally stealing Tairin's formatting for the questions; it makes it really pop

    1 - Do you feel that you have ever experienced Samadhi in Zazen? If so, please do your best to express the experience in words.

    Yes and No. I'm about to talk out of both sides of my no-sided mouth. hahahaha Yes, there are times in zazen when it's like I'm just zoomed in and I observe the thoughts, and it is just incredibly peaceful, like this amazing Silence and Calm, and I'm right there IN IT. I also say No because experiencing Samadhi sets up a separation with me and this thing called Samadhi. Also, I don't think zazen is about special experiences - I think sometimes I notice IT when I drop the running and avoiding and just sit IN IT. I also think that Samadhi is Samadhi, even when I'm anxious or angry or having "bad" zazen. It is just what it is - sometimes I realize it is me, experience that calmness, sometimes not.

    Zazen is just zazening - the universe is me; it's me that causes the split. It's a necessary separation, but in reality it's all just this.


    2 - Do you think that you are really getting the message that Zazen is itself a sacred, special, complete and wonderous act, not a tool to dig out some reward? (And that that is the reward! ) How would you express it?

    I do use zazen as a tool or try to, but I realize just to sit it. I can get wound up tight with planning or a sense of lack of control at times, and I do catch myself just trying to sit to gain something. But when I sit I drop all of that and just sit. I think this is really a lifelong koan to me.

    I always come back to this practice, always. Sometimes I've taken breaks, but I always come back. And if I break from zazen I'm always studying something with Dharma. I came here to get something, and I think you have to try to get something to realize what you already have and to truly learn how to give.

    This isn't something set in stone; it's continual practice. Just like in zazen where you have to continually open the hand of thought, to steal from Uchiyama Roshi - you tighten up and then release - it's the same thing with practice. It is goalless because there truly is nothing to attain, but I think you have to have a goal to drive that practice forward - you also have to like it. I mean a lot of times I don't feel like doing it and I can get lazy, but deep down this resonates with me - it gives my life sanity. I'm stating this poorly, but it's my koan.

    Gassho

    Risho
    -stlah
    Last edited by Risho; 07-14-2022 at 07:35 PM.

  5. #5
    1 - Do you feel that you have ever experienced Samadhi in Zazen? If so, please do your best to express the experience in words.
    I'm honestly not sure. I've certainly experienced brief moments of extreme clarity, deep peace and even the feeling that my whole body is breath. Is it Samadhi? I'm not sure.

    2 - Do you think that you are really getting the message that Zazen is itself a sacred, special, complete and wonderous act, not a tool to dig out some reward? (And that that is the reward! ) How would you express it?
    I'm working on it (and trying not to work too hard, no goals lol). Intellectually I understand. The body-mind hasn't quite caught up yet with the grokking and the true knowing.

    Gassho,
    SatLah
    Kelly

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