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Thread: Ino Tip - The Pause

  1. #1

    Ino Tip - The Pause

    Dear All,

    The following tip applies to the vast majority of Ino I know, even experienced Inos at Treeleaf.

    There is a tendency to pause, and break the beat, when taking some action like ringing a bell mid chant. Do not do so. Rather, keep on going with voice and mokugyo, steady chant and drum beat, even as you strike the bell, like a non-stop train that keeps on schedule.

    For example -

    (Wrong) -

    thus/ Bod/dhi/satt/vas/ live/ this/ Praj/na/ Pa/ra/mi/ta (* RING WITH MOMENTARY PAUSE) with/ no/ hin/drance/ of/ mind/ –

    (Right) -
    (RING WITH NO PAUSE as CHANT and MOKUGYO CONTINUE ONWARD)
    thus/ Bod/dhi/satt/vas/ live/ this/ Praj/na/ Pa/ra/mi/ta/ * with/ no/ hin/drance/ of/ mind/ –

    An even trickier skill is what to do if one must swallow, sneeze or cough mid chant. It is okay, but really one should continue the chant afterwards as if one had not done so. In other words, one does not pause and resume, but rather, jumps back in where one should have been. This is in respect for the other chanters, chanting or engaged in following along, who should not be interrupted by your sneeze, etc.

    It is not a serious problem to pause, but something to practice and avoid if you can.

    You can see an example in this wonderful Hannya Shingyo solo recital by a Japanese priest in Japan, at about the 2 minute 25 second mark, and then again at 42 second mark, as he strikes the big bell while not pausing with the Mokugyo.


    Gassho, Jundo

    STLah
    Last edited by Jundo; 05-28-2022 at 04:20 AM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    Dear All,

    The following tip applies to the vast majority of Ino I know, even experienced Inos at Treeleaf.

    There is a tendency to pause, and break the beat, when taking some action like ringing a bell mid chant. Do not do so. Rather, keep on going with voice and mokugyo, steady chant and drum beat, even as you strike the bell, like a non-stop train that keeps on schedule.

    For example -

    (Wrong) -

    thus/ Bod/dhi/satt/vas/ live/ this/ Praj/na/ Pa/ra/mi/ta (* RING WITH MOMENTARY PAUSE) with/ no/ hin/drance/ of/ mind/ –

    (Right) -
    (RING WITH NO PAUSE as CHANT and MOKUGYO CONTINUE ONWARD)
    thus/ Bod/dhi/satt/vas/ live/ this/ Praj/na/ Pa/ra/mi/ta/ * with/ no/ hin/drance/ of/ mind/ –

    An even trickier skill is what to do if one must swallow, sneeze or cough mid chant. It is okay, but really one should continue the chant afterwards as if one had not done so. In other words, one does not pause and resume, but rather, jumps back in where one should have been. This is in respect for the other chanters, chanting or engaged in following along, who should not be interrupted by your sneeze, etc.

    It is not a serious problem to pause, but something to practice and avoid if you can.

    You can see an example in this wonderful Hannya Shingyo solo recital by a Japanese priest in Japan, at about the 2 minute 25 second mark, and then again at 42 second mark, as he strikes the big bell while not pausing with the Mokugyo.


    Gassho, Jundo

    STLah
    Thanks Jundo! Video is lovely and makes it easy to understand how to inhale words at times and how to work the instruments with both hands!

    Sat Today
    Bion
    美音

    -------------------------
    "Put on the okesa and do zazen - That's all!"

  3. #3
    As a lay person (with no intention to become a priest), may I make a comment?
    Playing an instrument and singing in parallel is a talent which takes years of practice, and a certain level of ambidexterity. In this case it's two instruments. But Treeleaf is a Sangha with people of different abilities, including those who cannot multitask or are not as ambidextrous as this task requires. Is there scope for breathing or pausing in such cases?

    Sorry if I have overstepped a boundary.

    Gassho.
    Sat.

    Sent from my Lenovo TB-7305F using Tapatalk

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Prashanth View Post
    As a lay person (with no intention to become a priest), may I make a comment?
    Playing an instrument and singing in parallel is a talent which takes years of practice, and a certain level of ambidexterity. In this case it's two instruments. But Treeleaf is a Sangha with people of different abilities, including those who cannot multitask or are not as ambidextrous as this task requires. Is there scope for breathing or pausing in such cases?

    Sorry if I have overstepped a boundary.

    Gassho.
    Sat.
    Oh, of course! Ours is a "do what the body, and physical/medical condition allow" Sangha.

    Still, if somebody can do something, then they should try to do it well and right, as best as they can within their abilities.

    Believe me, if someone who is as much of a klutz as I am can work the bell and mokugyo, anyone can.

    *Klutz - Sanskrit word - https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dic.../english/klutz

    Gassho, Jundo

    STLah
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    Oh, of course! Ours is a "do what the body, and physical/medical condition allow" Sangha.

    Still, if somebody can do something, then they should try to do it well and right, as best as they can within their abilities.

    Believe me, if someone who is as much of a klutz as I am can work the bell and mokugyo, anyone can.

    *Klutz - Sanskrit word - https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dic.../english/klutz

    Gassho, Jundo

    STLah
    Gassho.




    Sat.

    Sent from my Lenovo TB-7305F using Tapatalk

  6. #6
    Will work to that end. I learned from video that I can use both hands not just one, will practice that. Though multi tasking is no longer my strong point if it ever was

    I listened to some of my Ino presentation to help learn and was surprise by the tinny sound of my bells They do not sound like that on my end. Is it the microphone on my iPad? I adjusted the settings as directed.

    Doshin
    St

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Doshin View Post
    Will work to that end. I learned from video that I can use both hands not just one, will practice that. Though multi tasking is no longer my strong point if it ever was

    I listened to some of my Ino presentation to help learn and was surprise by the tinny sound of my bells They do not sound like that on my end. Is it the microphone on my iPad? I adjusted the settings as directed.

    Doshin
    St
    There are both device and zoom settings that need adjusting. Most important parts are on zoom where it adjusts the noise cancellation. That should be set to low, echo cancellation to on and then as you join the room, you have to select original sound. Distance from the device also matters, because what noise cancellation does is that below a certain level, it will mute or duck sound..so nice resounding sustained bells end up sounding like broken pots and eventually totally vanish is the bell is too close to the microphone.


    Sat Today
    Bion
    美音

    -------------------------
    "Put on the okesa and do zazen - That's all!"

  8. #8
    Thanks you Jundo.

    Gassho, Shinshi

    SaT-LaH
    空道 心志 Kudo Shinshi
    I am just a priest-in-training, any resemblance between what I post and actual teachings is purely coincidental.
    E84I - JAJ

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Bion View Post
    There are both device and zoom settings that need adjusting. Most important parts are on zoom where it adjusts the noise cancellation. That should be set to low, echo cancellation to on and then as you join the room, you have to select original sound. Distance from the device also matters, because what noise cancellation does is that below a certain level, it will mute or duck sound..so nice resounding sustained bells end up sounding like broken pots and eventually totally vanish is the bell is too close to the microphone.


    Sat Today
    Bion thanks. A few questions for clarification. I can not find a away to adjust the IPad sounds. I did follow instructions Jundo gave for adjusting Zoom and think I set it correctly. How close is too close for the bells?

    Thanks
    Doshin
    St

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Doshin View Post
    Bion thanks. A few questions for clarification. I can not find a away to adjust the IPad sounds. I did follow instructions Jundo gave for adjusting Zoom and think I set it correctly. How close is too close for the bells?

    Thanks
    Doshin
    St
    If your iPad has no audio input adjustments, then just double-check the zoom ones, to make sure noise cancellation is set to low and echo cancellation to on and then original sound on.
    I can’t say for sure how close is too close without seeing the placement of things, but generally, I think bells and mokugyo should stay relatively far from microphone. Better to have more “room ambience” by sitting farther away than a muted sound by saturating the microphone.

    Sat Today
    Bion
    美音

    -------------------------
    "Put on the okesa and do zazen - That's all!"

  11. #11


    Gassho
    Washin
    stlah
    Kaidō (皆道) Every Way
    Washin (和信) Harmony Trust
    ----
    I am a novice priest-in-training. Anything that I say must not be considered as teaching
    and should be taken with a 'grain of salt'.

  12. #12


    Tokan (satlah)

  13. #13
    Sharing in case I am not alone and I find it a little amusing.

    I have practiced using two hands to see if I could remove the pause. Interestingly whenever I hit the bell my other hand hesitates. I even practice with no instruments watching my hands and there is a pause. My mind is in discussion with my hands and so far the hands remain stubborn. An age thing or a mind thing? Time will tell

    Doshin
    St

  14. #14
    Doshin, you just need to do like this ...



    Gassho, J

    STLah
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  15. #15
    I admire his skill.

    As the Byrds song goes “so you want to be a rock n roll star”…figured out back in the 60s that was not my path.

    Doshin
    St
    St

  16. #16
    In Bird Haven Zendo experience, noise cancellation is apparently built into the Zoom app for mobile devices and cannot much be improved on. For best results a computer with "original sound on" seems to be required.

    gassho
    ds sat and lah
    Visiting unsui, take w/salt.

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