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Thread: Green jet fuel is here -- so why are airlines not using it?

  1. #1

    Green jet fuel is here -- so why are airlines not using it?

    Saw the below report today, thought the folks here would be interested.

    By the way, I was in touch with David Loy yesterday on another matter, and I told him about the group here. He is interested and looking in.

    Gassho, J
    STLAH


    There is a small chance that your next flight will be powered, at least in part, by used cooking oils or agricultural waste.

    These are among the ingredients of SAF -- Sustainable Aviation Fuel -- a new type of jet fuel that promises to curb carbon emissions by 80% on average, according to IATA, the International Air Transport Association.

    The first commercial flights using SAF took off in 2011, and it has since grown to become a key element in making air transport more sustainable. The aviation industry has pledged that, by 2050, its global carbon emissions will be half that of what they were in 2005. It then hopes to reach net zero, or the complete absence of emissions, as early as a decade after that. That's an extremely ambitious plan, and one in which SAF accounts for 50% to 75% of the total reduction in emissions, depending on the different scenarios that can play out between now and then. SAF is a "drop in" fuel, which means it can be used now, in existing aircraft, with little or no modifications.

    And yet in 2019 -- the last year of business as usual before the pandemic -- SAF accounted for just 0.1% of all jet fuel used worldwide, according to the World Economic Forum. So why aren't airlines using more of it?

    ... SAF has a low carbon footprint because it's made from waste products, where the carbon has already been emitted, or from plants that use up CO2 to grow.

    The problem is that it's currently much more expensive to produce than regular jet fuel, even with today's elevated oil prices.

    "There's no real business case for the sector to invest in it at the moment," explains Schafer, meaning that airlines have no incentive to use SAF other than to reduce emissions -- but at current prices and amidst a global crisis brought on by Covid, that is a luxury they can't afford.

    To make the price go down, production needs to ramp up significantly and new types of SAF must come to the market. Today, most SAF comes in the form of biofuel produced from waste fats such as used cooking oil, or from oil trees purposely grown on degraded land. However, there is not enough of these raw materials right now to supply the industry at a meaningful scale.
    https://us.cnn.com/travel/article/sa...een/index.html
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  2. #2
    There are lots of greenish technologies that aren't economically viable yet. Solar power was long very expensive, and still isn't at the price where it is affordable for individuals, because of the cost of the hardware. Wind power has dropped in cost drastically in the past few years, making it much more affordable. Here's a chart showing how much renewable costs have fallen over 20 years:

    https://www.statista.com/chart/26085...ity-by-source/

    The problem in the transition is partly due to needing to phase out existing power plants, and their cost may be prohibitive even if renewables are cheaper. We're well on our way to mostly renewable energy, but it will take time.

    But it's never as simple as the above article suggests; you can't just swap one fuel for another. Here is what Wikipedia says about SAF:

    Technical challenges

    Nitrile-based rubber materials expand in the presence of aromatic compounds found in conventional petroleum fuel. Pure biofuels that aren't mixed with petroleum and don't contain paraffin-based additives may cause rubber seals and hoses to shrink. Manufacturers are starting to use synthetic rubber substitutes which are not adversely affected by biofuels, such as Viton, for seals and hoses. The United States Air Force has found harmful bacteria and fungi in their biofueled aircraft, and use pasteurization to disinfect them.
    It's really easy to see things about these new forms of energy and think we can just flip a switch, but the interdependence of systems makes it difficult. If we used biofuels for everything where we use petroleum, would we be able to grow enough to feed both people and machines?

    Gassho,

    Ryūmon (Kirk)

    sat
    流文

    I know nothing.

  3. #3

  4. #4
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    Lots of economical transportation in Europe. Easy to parallel park too.

    Gassho, Jishin, ST, LAH

  5. #5
    Thank you, Jundo.

    SAF is still in test/trial phase (Emirates and Qatar started testing it last year) but investors are also waiting for production capabilities to pick-up. Companies like Neste Oyj (Finland) are leading currently and Shell/BP are getting in the line. Purely from an economic standpoint, evidence of production and supply capacities is being awaited. Once the money moves, the shift will also come.

    I am more excited about the Electric airplanes which Rolls-Royce (not the car one) is testing currently. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-derbyshire-60068786

    sorry to run long.
    Gassho.
    Sat lah.

    Sent from my GS190 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Prashanth; 04-27-2022 at 09:51 AM.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Prashanth View Post

    I am more excited about the Electric airplanes which Rolls-Royce (not the car one) is testing currently. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-derbyshire-60068786
    Perhaps, but these will only be small planes. The size and weight of batteries is a limiting factor. Though battery technology is improving...

    Gassho,

    Ryūmon (Kirk)

    sat
    流文

    I know nothing.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryumon View Post
    Perhaps, but these will only be small planes. The size and weight of batteries is a limiting factor. Though battery technology is improving...

    Gassho,

    Ryūmon (Kirk)

    sat
    Yes. If these smaller planes can replace the other smaller planes (Cessnas etc which hobby pilots use), then it will be a small contribution to resolving a big problem.

    Let's hope for "Right Innovation"

    Gassho.

    Sat lah.

    Sent from my GS190 using Tapatalk

  8. #8
    Member bayamo's Avatar
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    this has been a topic of discussion in an avgeek forum i participate in for some time now.. the replies here would fit right in.. i had no idea we had so many other people here so interested in aviation
    Oh, yeah. If I didn't have inner peace, I'd go completely psycho on all you guys all the time.
    Carl Carlson

  9. #9
    Member bayamo's Avatar
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    this was the class i gave today, https://breakingnewsenglish.com/2205...-targets-m.pdf about airlines missing climate change targets
    #sattoday
    Oh, yeah. If I didn't have inner peace, I'd go completely psycho on all you guys all the time.
    Carl Carlson

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