Ecodharma: Chapter 4 (part two)

[Kokuu]

This section is from p106-115 (beginning at ‘Our Collective Predicament’ and ending just before ‘A Collective Englightenment?’).

In this part of the book, David Loy looks at how different civilisations and cultures have viewed their relationship with the natural world and natural order of things. The one we have now in the west is not the only one to have existed, or the best model for doing things.

There is always a balance in any society between the rights of individuals and collective responsibility. In previous societies, individual rights were curtailed in the pursuit of what was seen as the collective good. This clearly had downsides for individuals. Now, the freedom of individuals is mostly seen as sacrosanct in the west, which has largely been a very good thing, but also created issues when there are problems which require collective solutions.

Loy also argues that our lack of role as part of a greater collective has given rise to existential angst about our place in the world, other than for our own benefit.

If we have no role, why should we worry about what we do?

The argument is developed further that the idea of progress is now almost universally seen as increases in personal consumption and technological advancement, rather than contentment and well-being. Studies have shown that beyond a certain level of comfort, out happiness does not rise with increasing wealth and possessions, yet our culture acts as if it does with the dopamine hit of retail therapy mistaken for actual happiness.

David Loy sees the sense of lack that we strive to fill coming from our estrangement from the natural world, and the answer to filling that being found in reconnection rather than retail.

In Buddhist terms, he points out that, as with our lack of self, we do not need to return to nature, as we have never left it, we just need to realise it. We cover up our non-self by constantly reinforcing our created small self, just as we cover up our reliance on nature by trying to accumulate enough to feel independent and self-reliant, although that can never be the case. We are nature just as we are Buddha nature and the dharmakaya, and not realising that will always cause problems.

Questions for this week:

How much does what David Loy says about our collective predicament ring true to you?

Although it seems obvious how we can tackle this predicament for us an individuals (just as with overcoming the ignorance of our self), how can we make this happen on a collective scale?

In what ways do you feel both a part of and apart from nature?

Gassho
Kokuu

[DanM]

Usually I’m a little bit sceptical when individual metaphors are used for society at large, but Loy’s comparison of individual dukkha with collective dukkha has some merit I think. Saying that pursuing economic and technological progress as ends in and of themselves is a lack project like the individual lack projects we discussed in the last chapter is an interesting concept. I certainly agree that this has separated us from nature and deepened our collective suffering.

How to tackle that on a collective scale is a pretty daunting challenge. It seems like to any attempt to address global issues leads to an intensely visceral reaction from half of society, who retreat further in to nationalism, xenophobia, hatred, conspiracy theories, etc. How would we reconnect people with nature when those are so many people’s primary concerns? It will be interesting to see what Loy says in the next section about how to do this.

As I write this I’m at my in-laws place in the English countryside, and there is all manner of wildlife here - birds, deer, rabbits, squirrels, etc. I love sitting outside and just watching and listening, a lot of the thoughts of the small self fade in to the background and I feel more connected to everything. However, I still tend to view it as something outside of myself that I observe in the right time and place. I find it much harder to feel part of nature when I’m at work or in my home surrounded by technology, plastic etc, even though all of that is interconnected with everything else and is therefore part of nature too.

Gassho,
Dan
ST/LAH

[Tairin]

How much does what David Loy says about our collective predicament ring true to you?

Definitely rings true for me. Human beings are a collective. We may not have a hive mind like ants or bees but overall we act consistently and mostly in similar ways. My experience based on living in North America is that Loy is definitely right that we act separate from nature and see it as something to exploit and tame rather than live in harmony with.

Although it seems obvious how we can tackle this predicament for us an individuals (just as with overcoming the ignorance of our self), how can we make this happen on a collective scale?


That’s the million dollar question isn’t it? If I knew the answer to this then I’d surely be trying to make it a reality. My feeling is that this really requires a significant paradigm shift on the part of humans and we aren’t going to be able to make that leap until the a significant amount of collective pain is felt. If we can make the leap at all….


In what ways do you feel both a part of and apart from nature?

Well obviously I am a part of nature in the sense that it supports my life. The food I eat, the air I breathe, the water I drink are all aspects of the natural web that we are part of. But I also contribute to nature. Gardening and composting is one very obvious way where my actions work with natural forces.

On the other hand I type this response in my nice warm house, heated with natural gas, using my iPad and my wifi while my wife watches tv in the background. Soon some pizza supper will be delivered to our house and we might watch some Netflix tonight.



Tairin
Sat today and lah

[Doshin]

I see things similarly as to the others who posted here.

My mind wandered into the past as I read this section. Specifically when did this “collective dukkha” arise in our species? For our first couple of hundred thousand years as a species, where we were focused on hunting and gathering to sustain ourselves, did we have time to think on what we craved or focused on what we needed. Then along came agriculture and technology and the world became a different place for our species. We benefited greatly and our species grew in numbers dramatically. But with that did dukkha arise because of the new place we made for ourselves?

I have always felt a kinship for the wild. My life, hobbies, career, motivations are all intertwined with nature. Though I still feel “buffered” from nature because I see it and experience it with technology. I don’t have the same connection and skills of my ancestors a 100,000 years ago. I have the luxury to concern myself with how Buddhism and EcoDharma can inform us and still so many others today are concerned with where and if they will get their next meal. So having a universal collective view is difficult when we come from so many diverse situations and circumstances. A challenge.

Doshin
St

[Heiso]

How much does what David Loy says about our collective predicament ring true to you?

I think it's really interesting to think of us separating ourselves from nature as an attempt to gain some sense of security but all we do in building our fences, and walling off our property from the outside world is to create dukkha (I type this from my garden office surrounded by 6ft fences). We then try to ease the dukkha through lack projects like economic and technological progress and while doing so seems to cure some ills, 'progress' often seems to be this out of control juggernaut. that not only drives us to work harder and give up more of ourselves, but that wrecks our home in the process.

Although it seems obvious how we can tackle this predicament for us an individuals (just as with overcoming the ignorance of our self), how can we make this happen on a collective scale?

It's sad to say but sometimes I think change will only happen on a large scale when things come to a head and we start seeing things like mass migration due to severe habitat damage. Other times I'm hopeful that we're in the process of change now and science is about to save us but it's the hope that gets you! Ultimately I have absolutely no idea.


In what ways do you feel both a part of and apart from nature?

I try to spend as much time in nature as I can in my garden/at my allotment or walking in the fields and forests near my home. But really I know I have to make a conscious decision to do those things and that they are activities, not part and parcel of my daily life. However, it's good to remind myself, as Tairin mentioned above, that even if I'm not doing those things, whatever I am doing, and even me just being, is all part of the great interconnectedness of our planet.

Gassho,

Heiso

StLah

[Naiko]

I’m catching up with everyone’s excellent contributions. Thank you all. I’m at the busiest and most stressful part of my work year, so I’m feeling a bit scattered. I’ve read this chapter at least three times but haven’t commented.

I do think Loy’s description of our collective situation is logical and straightforward. It’s a paradox, both personally and collectively, that our great strength and will to survive, leads as well to our great sense of dissatisfaction and separation. It may be that the stressful situation I find myself in making me pessimistic, but the idea of tackling collective awakening is just daunting. How many images and ideas do we receive daily reinforcing the collective dream of consumerism? We are consumed by it. I fear we will only really look around and act when we absolutely must.

I know I feel disconnected from nature. I spent a great deal of my time outside as a child and young adult, at the ocean, wandering in the woods and mountains. Since my illness it seems I am inside all the time. While I can’t not be of nature, I sure don’t feel it.
Gassho,
Naiko
st lah

[Tairin]

I know I feel disconnected from nature. I spent a great deal of my time outside as a child and young adult, at the ocean, wandering in the woods and mountains. Since my illness it seems I am inside all the time. While I can’t not be of nature, I sure don’t feel it.

I hadn’t thought of this before but your comment made me think about how much the world has changed in my life time. I was born in the late 60’s and as a child in the 70’s we spent most of our time playing outside - dawn to dusk more or less. Now kids spend remarkably little time outdoors. I wonder how much that is or will affect their connection to nature?


Tairin
Sat today and lah

[Naiko]

I do wonder about that as well. Early 60’s kid and we ran around the neighborhood as a pack unencumbered by adult supervision for hours on end, and for a treat we slept in a tent in the backyard. Very different times. Perhaps field trips, camping/nature programs for kids are far more important now and may have far reaching consequences. Perhaps some climate activism can look like fun.
Gassho,
Naiko
st lah

[Doshin]

I hadn’t thought of this before but your comment made me think about how much the world has changed in my life time. I was born in the late 60’s and as a child in the 70’s we spent most of our time playing outside - dawn to dusk more or less. Now kids spend remarkably little time outdoors. I wonder how much that is or will affect their connection to nature?


Tairin
Sat today and lah

About 15 years ago there was a book written about that subject…I believe it was titled Last Child in The Woods

Doshin

PS I spent my childhood along/in a creek and in fields.

[Heiso]

I grew up in the 80s and 90s and we were also out dawn til dust playing in the rivers and making dens in the forest. That was just before things went digital though, I wonder if that has anything to do with it?

Gassho,

Heiso

StLah

[Tairin]

I read this today and thought back to our conversation here about our connection to nature.

https://theconversation.com/neighbou...-crises-183389


Tairin
Sat today and lah