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Thread: Dosho, Dogen, Rujing and History

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    Dosho, Dogen, Rujing and History

    (The following is a response to various blog posts by Dosho Port on Soto Zen history):

    In a recent blog and facebook post entitled “Punning, Toileting, and Purifying: the Awakening of Rújìng” (https://www.patheos.com/blogs/wildfo...of-rujing.html), the Rev. Dosho Port raises a few old quotes and passages regarding Masters Rujing, Dogen, Ejo and Keizan. Respectfully, I hope that I might challenge his claims a bit, and demonstrate that they contain certain undeserved “strawmen” and "false flags.” As I do so, allow me to emphasize at the outset that nothing I write here is meant in any way as a criticism of “Kōan Introspection Zazen” itself, which I personally celebrate as a powerful and honored path suited to those who find their practice there. Dosho seems to now find his practice there, which is wonderful. My only concern is that Dosho, because he now finds his practice there, seems to be mischaracterizing key aspects of modern Soto teachings and parts of the historical record.

    Dosho begins by stating his purpose as being his desire:

    to explode the myth about Dōgen, current in much of Sōtō Zen, that Dōgen and his crew were “just sitters” who weren’t into awakening and didn’t use kōans for anything but intellectual off gassing. The truth is au contraire. ... Denying the power of kōan and diminishing the significance of kenshō discourages people from doing the work necessary to awaken into one of the most wonderful and meaningful experiences of this human life. It also diminishes the power and possibility for practicing awakening, liberating living beings.


    I believe that, for several reasons, Dosho here sets up a strawman and false categorization of modern Soto practice. Why? To begin, anyone picking up almost any of Dogen’s writings, and especially Shobogenzo and Eihei Koroku, will find page after page, wall-to-wall riffing by Dogen on the classic kōans, which Dogen let’s flower and explores in his wondrous way. Any Soto teacher who has read Dogen (all of us) knows this. What is more, the same honoring and exploring of the kōans is true for most modern Soto Zen teachers one encounters: The kōans are not merely for “intellectual off gassing,” but to be embodied, jumped into and danced with, embraced, nurtured, truly gotten, “grocked.” They are not meaningless or “illogical” as some present, but are vessels which bring to life teachings that leap through our normal logic and language, thus requiring creative expression. I have never met (that does not mean that there are none, only that they are rare) a Soto teacher who says otherwise or fails to express such fact.

    As we Soto teachers know, because it is obvious, Dogen encouraged his monks to grapple with the kōans, chew on them, get the juice, truly pierce what they are on about. So many of his Eihei Koroku talks were poetic, creative and often non-verbal, demonstrative presentations (banging his stick, holding up a fist) meant to express what is hard to express with words. Certainly, in their private conversations about kōans, he and his students would “converse” about kōans in such traditional, Zenny ways, talking and acting out meaning between themselves, following the styles and examples which they had read of what the old masters had done during the Tang.

    In fact, this last point may be one reason that the traditional kōans are not quite as emphasized in Soto Zen today as in ages past: Zen has come out of the monastery, out of the Tang Dynasty, into daily life and modern times. In a highly regimented and traditional environment, such as Rujing’s Tiantong monastery or Eiheiji, traditional teaching was conducted by traditional teachers with traditional teaching stories and methods, namely, the classic kōans. However, these days, Soto Zen for modern Zen practitioners out in the world, with ordinary lives, has blossomed in focus toward realizing these very same insights and openings of the traditional kōans, but as the Genjo Kōan (the kōans always manifesting) throughout this world and in our daily lives. In other words, same teachings, same liberation, but in new times through new kōans suited to today’s life (after all, Song dynasty poems and puns as found in the old kōans were suited to what was then the “modern times” of Song people! Now we need new lingo for our current “modern times.”) Soto Zen folks awaken now, through Zazen and dedicated practice amid the duties and rituals of daily life, today just as they always have done.

    Furthermore, all Soto teachers know that Dogen was all about awakening, realization, liberation, enlightenment, although he disfavored the term “kensho” as setting up a goal. Dosho is correct that Dogen (and Rujing and all Zen teachers I know) celebrate such moments of awakening, realization, liberation, enlightenment, some of which can be most profound and self-shattering. On the other hand, what Dosho seems to miss is that awakening, realization, liberation, enlightenment can also be more subtle (although no less profound), creeping into the marrow of the bones, and found in big and small ways in countless settings beyond the “classic kōans.” In fact, Dogen does not seem ever, in any of his writings, to have emphasized the aggressive achievement of passing “kensho” experiences in any way resembling masters such as Tahui and Hakuin who now seem to captivate Dosho’s imagination. Simply, if he had valued such experiences, Dogen would have described and celebrated the content of such experiences more, much as did Hakuin who described:

    Night and day I did not sleep; I forgot both to eat and rest. Suddenly a great doubt manifested itself before me. It was as though I were frozen solid in the midst of an ice sheet extending tens of thousands of miles. A purity filled my breast and I could neither go forward nor retreat. To all intents and purposes I was out of my mind and the Mu alone remained. Although I sat in the Lecture Hall and listened to the Master's lecture, it was as though I were hearing a discussion from the distance outside the hall. At times it felt as though I were floating through the air. This state lasted for several days. Then I chanced to hear the sound of the temple bell and I was suddenly transformed. It was as if a sheet of ice had been smashed or a jade tower had fallen with a crash. Suddenly I returned to my senses. ... All my former doubts vanished as though ice had melted away. In a loud voice I called: "Wonderful, wonderful. (from Yampolsky, The Zen Master Hakuin: Selected Writings)


    Of course, such experiences have never been called unimportant in Soto Zen, at least, not by any teacher I know. We just tend not to say that they are the only or main thing. What Dosho ignores is that Dogen seems to have had a wider, more immediate, moment by timeless moment, nothing left out in daily life, definition of awakening and realization. Such experiences are wonderful, but Dogen emphasized that all our daily actions, from waking, to eating, to defecating to sitting Zazen, can be the embodiment of a Buddha’s poise and a pivot point for liberation. In doing so, realization can come to slip into the psyche over time, in each instant, in both subtle and profoundly experienced ways, beyond any passing, one off experiences no matter how “smashed sheet of ice, fallen Jade tower” stunning. After all, ice melts slowly too, and towers can simply vanish. In doing so, rather than raising up "kensho" amid all events and experiences of life, Dogen raised up all the events and experiences of life as sacred and opportunities to bring to life awakening.

    Dosho seems to want to say that Dogen (and Rujing, Ejo and Keizan ... more about them in a moment) taught what the great Rinzai Master Dahui taught as “Kōan Introspection Zazen,” in which one sits focused on a phrase or “head word” from a Kōan, pouring oneself into the Kōan until a Kensho experience results. Despite the fact that Dogen repeatedly and strongly criticized Dahui in Shobogenzo and elsewhere, we are to believe that Dogen was secretly practicing much the same as Dahui. (In fact, Dosho may be a little right about Keizan, who may have had some leanings that way, but I will leave discussion of him for another time as Dosho has promised to write about him more in the near future. Keizan is often recognized as someone who brought many esoteric, Rinzai and other influences into Soto Zen that were not found in Master Dogen’s original expression of Soto practice.)

    Here is the main flaw in Dosho’s argument about Dogen: While Dogen loved and encouraged his students to pour themselves into Kōans (again, nobody who has read Dogen could possibly disagree), there is not any time in any of his writings in which Dogen offered instructions on “how to” sit Zazen which mentions, for example, picking up a “head word” (a hua tou 話頭, a phrase or word from a Kōan) when sitting, thus to bring about some kensho experience. Dogen only describes in the writings we have by him (e.g., in Zazengi) sitting in a Shikantaza manner, “letting go of all relations, setting all affairs at rest, not thinking of good, not thinking of bad,” untangled from “intellect and will, memory and contemplation.” Quite simply: If Dogen had wanted folks to sit Zazen while picking up a head word from a kōan, pouring oneself into a kōan phrase while sitting, he would have told folks to cross the legs and pick up a head word phrase from a kōan during Zazen. Dogen spoke repeatedly, and in great detail, of the mind and body in sitting: all about how to place the legs, how to breathe, how to be untangled in thoughts, how to dress, what to sit on, how to think neither “good or bad,” how to drop goals, but (are we to believe) he simply forget to mention the part about picking up a kōan?

    Dogen never discounted the importance of an awakening experience. Nor do I know any Soto teacher who does. However, what Dogen never said anywhere is that such an awakening experience is the ONLY form of awakening, or irreplaceable, or the most important kind of awakening, let alone that awakening is something that is only to be brought about through the Head Word method, or even only by work with the "classic kōans." Dogen spoke of awakening around the timeless clock, in all things, all activities, all moments as themselves the present kōans of life. Furthermore, Dogen spoke of “Just Sitting” Zazen as also the ticket and manifestation of enlightenment realized:

    The zazen I speak of is not learning meditation. It is simply the dharma-gate of repose and bliss, the practice-realization of totally culminated enlightenment. It is the manifestation of ultimate reality. Traps and snares can never reach it


    Master Dahui, the primary developer and promoter of Koan Introspection Zazen, was criticized by Dogen quite frequently and strongly, especially in Dogen’s later years when a large contingent of former “Daruma-shu” Rinzai practitioners joined Dogen’s monastery and Dogen wished to turn them toward Dogen’s ways instead. Dahui is noted for having given instructions for sitting Zazen like the following. Is anything even close to the following found in any of Dogen’s instructions for Zazen?

    “Here just observe the huatou. A monk asked Zhaozhou, ‘Does a dog have buddha-nature or does it lack it?’ Zhaozhou said, ‘It lacks it (wu).’ When you observe it, do not use extensive evaluation, do not try to explicate it, do not seek for understanding, do not take it up when you open your mouth, do not make meaning when you raise it, do not fall into vacuity, do not hold onto your mind waiting for enlightenment, do not catch a hold of it when your teacher speaks, and do not lodge in a shell of no concerns. But keep hold of it at all times, whether walking, standing, sitting, or lying down. ‘Does a dog have buddha-nature or not?’ Hold onto this ‘lack’ until it gets ripe, where verbal discussion and mental evaluation cannot reach. The square inch of your mind will be in a muddle. When it is as if you have clamped your teeth around a tasteless piece of iron and your will does not retreat-when it is like this, then that is good news!


    No, nothing like that is found anywhere in Dogen’s writings, for Dogen taught Shikantaza while sitting Zazen. Had he intended otherwise, he would have said otherwise.

    Now, let us look at some of the historical points which Dosho pulls up. Dosho writes

    Dōgen saw himself as teaching within the context of buddhas and ancestors, not as a rogue monk making shit up. How do we know this? For one thing, in his Shobogenzo and Eihei koroku Dōgen uses the phrase “buddhas and ancestors” about 150 times, often beginning Shobogenzo fascicles with some reference to buddhas and ancestors, setting what he’s about to say in the context of, yes, buddhas and ancestors. Oh, by the way, Dōgen uses shikantaza nine times in Shobogenzo and Eiheikoroku, but not as a technique – as a keyword. So at least by word count, buddhas and ancestors were 16.66 times more important to Dōgen than shikantaza.


    Huh? How does his honoring the “buddhas and ancestors” say anything about Dogen’s views on Shikantaza? In fact, au contraire, Dogen stated time and time again that (as here in Zanmai-O-Zanmai), “to be greatly honored within the quarters of the buddhas and ancestors—this is sitting with legs crossed.” As historian Morten Schlütter has pointed out in his masterful “How Zen Became Zen,” Silent Illumination, the source of Dogen’s Shikantaza style, was a much, MUCH older and traditional way of sitting in the Zen lineages (including the early Rinzai lineage before Dahui and later Rinzai innovators) compared to “Kōan Introspection,” which had basically developed only in much later times. So, to be faithful to the Ancestors, one would be faithful to Silent Illumination (p. 172-174):

    The new Caodong [Soto] tradition, then, seems to have simply adopted the type of meditation already common in Chan and elevated its importance. What made the silent illumination teachings of the Caodong tradition distinctive, therefore, was not the meditation technique or even its doctrinal underpinnings but its sustained, exhuberant celebration of inherent enlightenment and its persistent stress on stillness and de-emphasis on enlightenment as a breakthrough experience. In this way, the Caodong tradition did make meditation an end in itself: as long as meditation was approached correctly, nothing else was really needed. Thus, the silent illumination practice of the new Caodong tradition really did differentiate it from the rest of Chan ... . Even though the new Caodong tradition's teaching style was seen as distinctive, it did not entail, as I have argued above, a radical departure from earlier meditation techniques ...

    The kanhua Chan advocated by Dahui was, on the other hand, truly an innovation and represented a new style of Chan. As I argued in Chapter 5, Dahui developed what was essentially a new type of meditation out of existing gongan practices. In spite of Dahui's accusations that the Caodong masters and other Chan teachers with whom he disagreed were teaching a heterodox doctrine, it was Dahui himself who was unorthodox in his unabashed de-emphasis of inherent enlightenment and his new mediation technique strongly focused on working toward a moment of breakthrough enlightenment.


    Turning now to another head scratching historical observation, Dosho asserts, “[Rujing] didn’t reveal his lineage publicly until close to his death. … Presumably, then, the young Dōgen also would not have known the lineage in which he was undergoing training.

    That is just not true and there is simply no evidence for such an assertion. Not only would Rujing’s lineage have been revealed at any recitation of Ancestors or in any document calling for proof of Lineage in the heavily Lineage conscious procedures of someone’s becoming an Abbot of a major monastery, it was written no less in the Dharma Transmission documents which Dogen would have received from Rujing. Although Dogen sometimes professed that there was really no “Zen,” and even the name “Soto” is mistaken, what Dogen seems to have meant at such times was precisely that his Lineage, Rujing’s Lineage, encompassed the essence of Buddhism, and was not merely a branch. In fact, at other times, Dogen was very conscious of his, and Rujing’s, Lineage. In the Colophon to Rujing’s Continuing Record of Sayings, which Dosho cites in another blog post (https://www.patheos.com/blogs/wildfo...rma-heirs.html), Dogen shows that he is very conscious of his teacher’s lineage:

    With clear intimate sayings, like fragrant flowing water, a white heron standing in the snow, the bright moon in the courtyard, green mountains upright and lofty, reed flowers outside, this is the Caodong (Sōtō) School's essence. Rujing handed down (Caodong Teacher) Taiyang's original school, as blue hawks fly to the nine heavens and an old crane perches on a parasol tree, while people push forward to look for the mysterious style. Relying on questions-and-answers (mondō) and Dharma talks (teishō), he established one generation of our school’s style, receiving (Caodong Teacher) Furong Daokai’s ancient ancestral patched Dharma robe while intimately abiding inside the room.


    Again, as Dosho points out, Dogen used kōans in back and forth Mondo (question and answer) between teacher and student. There is no doubt about that fact. So did Rujing. Dosho is correct that Dogen and most other Zen folks engaged in kōan give and takes, and he is correct that there were moments of realization which happened in 'grocking' Kōans while engaging in koany conversing. HOWEVER, that simply does not mean that koan play was the ONLY opportunity for awakening, which could happen anywhere (if we are to believe the old koan stories themselves!) while hearing a sound, seeing a flower, stubbing one’s toe, while sitting Zazen or even while cleaning toilets! There need not be a practice of 'koan introspection' during Zazen (in fact, none of the early teachers described in the koans would have themselves engaged in koan introspection for the simple reason that the koans in which they are characters did not yet exist until they supposedly lived them!), or even a requirement that enlightenment must occur with formal study of the "classic koans." There is just no evidence for that. For example, the above record contains this back and forth between Rujing and Dogen, :

    Rujing ascended the [teaching] hall on the first day of the year. I (Dōgen) asked, “What is the precious pearl in the mind?” Rujing said, “What do you have outside the mind to dislike?” I bowed. Rujing said, “Respect this, admire this.” I picked up my sitting cloth and stood. Rujing said, “Clearly observe the Dharma of the Dharma King; the Dharma of the Dharma King is thus.” I then returned to the assembly.


    That is not a “classic koan,” but merely a teaching between teacher and student in the way we Zen folks sometimes speak, with reference ("the Dharma of the Dharma King") to a standard, dramatic expression for "what the Buddha taught and knew."

    In the Hokyoki, Dogen’s diary of his private talks with Rujing, there is nothing about holding a kōan or phrase in mind during Zazen. In fact, Rujing recommends resting the mind in the palm of the hand while sitting in the Zazen mudra:

    RUJING SAID, “In zazen it is possible to develop samādhi by placing the mind in various locations. However, I would say, during zazen set your mind on the palm of your left hand. This is the way correctly transmitted by buddha ancestors.” (堂頭和尚慈誨云、 M(大凡) 坐禪時、安心諸處、皆有定處。又 坐禪時、安心於左掌上、乃佛祖正傳之法也。)


    No mention there about a kōan phrase as the place he encourages for placing the mind.

    Dosho points to Keizan’s short biography of Jujing in the Denkoroku (Transmission of the Light) as evidence for Kōan Introspection. While the biography is clear that Jujing sat assiduously, the biography not only makes no mention of Kōan Instrospection during Zazen, in fact it says directly “all he did was sit Shikantaza” (只管打坐するのみなり). Keizan then goes on to repeat the old injunction to “just sit” (只打坐):

    尋常只人をして打坐を勸む。常に云ふ、燒香禮拜念佛修懺看經を用ゐず、 祇管に打坐せよと示して、只打坐せしめしのみなり。Routinely, [Rujing] simply encouraged people to sit. He always said: “There is no need for burning incense, making prostrations, recollecting buddhas, practicing repentances, or reading sūtras. Just sit.” With this proclamation, he just had them sit; that is all.


    Dosho also quotes a historian about a much later text (“Chan Master Changweng Rujing of Tiantong in Mingzhou”), a quote from Prof. Bodiford that makes it sound as if Keizan stated that Rujing engaged in Kanhua (看話), “looking at the phrase.” However, Keizan never mentions “Kanhua” in Rujing’s biography. Even in the other text, the English rendition by Prof, Bodiford is “contemplating the words,” not “Koan Introspection.”

    Dosho concludes his essay with a statement that I believe gets the situation half right:

    Finally, the story that Dōgen inherited a brand of Zen that used a special meditation technique, shikantaza, that sitting itself was awakening, that his lineage rejected kōan work, that this special transmission denied the importance of personal awakening, and instead stressed original awakening is one big myth.


    While it is true that Dogen never rejected kōans, nor certainly Zen as a special transmission, and that Dogen was no fan of “original awakening” as any excuse for libertine behavior, it is just incorrect for Dosho to claim that Dogen did not profess a special meditation technique in which sitting itself is awakening. Dogen said so (for example, in Eihei Koroku, Hogo 11),

    This zazen was transmitted from Buddha to Buddha, directly pointed out by ancestors, and only transmitted by legitimate successors. Even when others hear of its name, it is not the same as the zazen of buddha ancestors. This is because the principle of zazen in other schools is to wait for enlightenment.


    In another blog post (https://www.patheos.com/blogs/wildfo...e-emperor.html), Dosho cites “Keizan’s “Answers to Ten Questions from the Emperor.” Unfortunately, Dosho relegated to a footnote the caution by Soto historian, Prof. Bodiford (in his Sōtō Zen in Medieval Japan, p. 101), that the entire “Ten Questions” is likely a forgery made centuries after the time of Keizan:

    Sōjiji possesses a list of ten questions that Godaigo supposedly submitted to Keizan at Sōjiji in 1322. Sōjiji tradition claims that in return for Keizan’s satisfactory responses Godaigo made Sōjiji the head temple of the Sōtō school later that same year. In opposition to Sōjiji, however, Yōkōji possesses its own version of Godaigo’s ten questions that (in their version) were sent to Keizan at Yōkōji in 1320—two years earlier than claimed by Sōjiji. Moreover, Yōkōji tradition claims that Godaigo responded to Keizan’s answers by making Yōkōji the head temple of the Sōtō school in 1321. Few other documents are as blatantly false as these ...


    Dosho also turns his attention to Dogen’s right hand man and successor, Ejo, in another recent blog posting, “The Luminous Koun Ejō Zenji: Background, Awakening, Legacy” (https://www.patheos.com/blogs/wildfo...ng-legacy.html). Here again, Dosho’s presentation seems to blur the fact that dancing with “classic” Kōans (not denied by anyone), and attaining “awakening” (cherished by all us Zen folks) is simply not the same as an endorsement of “Kōan Introspection Zazen” in the way of Tahui, focused on certain intense Kensho experiences. In his essay, Dosho states his reason for writing as to save readers from being:

    ... fooled by contemporary tendencies to dilute the milk of the buddhadharma with intoxicants, such as that our Zen Way is an easy-going path of faith, an intellectual entanglement, a psychological reframe, a dualistic mindfulness, or by fetishizing just sitting.


    It is, once again, the same Soto strawman (granted, some modern Zen teachers are overly psychologizing Zen perhaps, I must agree with that point.)

    One point to notice is that Dosho relates stories of profound insight into kōans as “Kensho” experiences. But, looking closely, what was the actual nature of the awakenings which the stories describe? There is nothing described in any of these stories resembling some intense, "walls drop away, ice cracks and jade towers fall" Kensho in the following story, for example, which merely relates that there did manifest some flavor of extremely profound insight into the kōan and a grateful bow …

    “That night, bowing, [Ejō] asked, ‘Not asking about one hair, what is multiple holes?’
    “Gen smiled and said, ‘Pierced!’
    “The master bowed.”


    In fact, the stories that Dosho sites, in both the Transmission of the Light and the Rujing Record, as examples of great “Kensho” openings seem generally much more subtle, profound yet ordinary, life shifting understandings that were yet each free of obvious fireworks, one of so many “ah hah” moments in our daily walk along Dogen’s path of constant “practice-realization.” Absent from the stories are descriptions of mind blowing “ice cracking, walls collapsing” Kensho experiences, and instead, story after story simply relates moments of awakening followed by a gentle recognition and bow, such as the above.

    If anything, Ejo’s own Shōbōgenzō Kōmyō, which Dosho mentions, contains amazing descriptions of Shikantaza, Just Sitting:

    From the very beginning, seeking concentration states and viewing practice and realization as two different things is different from the realised-practice of the harmonies and vast activity of the Transmission of luminosity. ... Just aligning with the Luminosity of Awareness, dwelling at ease in it, is the supreme samadhi of shikantaza, just sitting.

    I feel a great respect from the depths of my compassion for you who continue the practice of zazen in the state of mind that I will now describe: without grasping anything or having any goal, without being influenced by your personal understanding [or intellectual knowledge], without letting the experience that you have acquired in the dojo make you arrogant. Just with all the energy of your body and mind, throw them totally into Komyozo [the Great Treasury of Light] without looking back. Do not seek satori enlightenment. Do not try to hide or be rid of illusion. Do not hate the thoughts that arise, do not love them either and above all, do not nourish them. In every way, you must practice the great sitting, here and now


    Finally, in another recent essay ("How to Break Through Mu,” https://www.patheos.com/blogs/wildfo...hrough-mu.html), Dosho cites a passage from Rujing that surely does in fact encourage someone to take up a Kōan and hold it in mind. It is true, Dosho is correct:

    "When the divided mind flies away, how will you deal with it? Zhàozhōu little dog buddhanature mu. This single word mu – an iron broom. Where you sweep, confusion swirls around, swirling around confusion where you sweep. More turning, sweeping, turning. In the place you cannot sweep, do your utmost to sweep. Day and night, backbone straight, continuously without stopping. Bold and powerful, do not let up. Suddenly, sweeping breaks open the great empty sky. Ten thousand distinctions, a thousand differences exhausted – completely opening."


    The original is as follows:

    上堂。心念紛飛、如何借レ手。趙州狗子仏性無。只箇無字鉄掃帚、掃処紛飛多、紛飛多処掃。転掃転多、掃不レ 得処侯レ命掃。 昼夜竪二起脊梁一、勇猛切莫二放倒一。忽然掃二破太虚空一、 万別千差尽豁通。

    However, there are a couple of things to note about this passage, beginning with the fact that the quote is not found as a central teaching of Rujing’s Record, not part of a long exposition, but only as a very short quote in a section advising on various miscellaneous matters, including what to do during a particularly troubling time in Zazen. The key phrase is at the start, “心念紛飛、如何借レ手。趙州狗子仏性無” which I might render as “When the mind is divided and flying away, what method can we borrow (借手) to deal with it?” In other words, this is advice for when Zazen is particularly troubled.

    Master Keizan seems to have given much the same advice in his Zazen Yojinki which, although the entire work is clearly an instruction on Shikantaza, at the end has a section with various kinds of advice from Keizan for particularly troubling days:


    坐中若し昏睡来たらば、常に応に身を揺かし或いは目を張り、又、心を頂上髪際眉間に安ずべし。猶、未だ醒め ざる時は、手を引いて応に目を拭い或いは身を摩すべし。猶、未だ醒めざる時は、座を起って経行すべし。正に 順行を要す。順行して若し一百許歩に及べば、昏睡必ず醒めん。而して経行の法は、一息恒に半歩なり。行くも 亦、行かざるが如く、寂静にして動かず。是の如く経行すれば猶、未だ醒めざる時、或いは目を濯い頂を冷やし 、或いは菩薩戒の序を誦し。種種に方便して、睡眠せしむること勿れ。...

    心若し散乱する時は、心を鼻端丹田に安じ、出入の息を数えよ(しばしば、息を出入せよ)。猶、未だ休まざる 時は、須く一則の公案を提撕挙覚すべし。謂く、是れ何物か恁麼に来る、狗子無仏性、雲門の須弥山、趙州の栢 樹子等の没滋味の談、是、其の所応なり。猶、未だ休せざる時、一息截断、両眼永閉の端的に向かって、打坐工 夫し、或いは胞胎未生、不起一念已前に向かって、行履工夫せば、二空勿ち生じ、散心必ず歇まん 。


    If dullness or sleepiness overcome your sitting, move the body and open the eyes wider, or place attention above the hairline or between your eyebrows. If you are still not fresh, rub the eyes or the body. If that still doesn’t wake you, stand up and walk, always clockwise. Once you’ve gone about a hundred steps you probably won’t be sleepy any longer. The way to walk is to take a half step with each breath. Walk without walking, silent and unmoving.

    If you still don’t feel fresh after doing kinhin, wash your eyes and forehead with cold water. Or chant the “Three Pure Precepts of the Bodhisattvas”. Do something; don’t just fall asleep. …

    If the mind wanders, place attention at the tip of the nose and tanden and count the inhalations and exhalations. If that doesn’t stop the scattering, bring up a phrase and keep it in awareness – for example: “What is it that comes thus?” or “When no thought arises, where is affliction? – Mount Sumeru!” or “What is the meaning of Bodhidharma’s coming from the West? – The cypress in the garden.” Sayings like this that you can’t draw any flavour out of are suitable.

    If scattering continues, sit and look to that point where the breath ends and the eyes close forever and where the child is not yet conceived, where not a single concept can be produced. When a sense of the two-fold emptiness of self and things appears, scattering will surely rest.


    In other words, these are teachings for especially difficult times, thus standing in contrast with our way of sitting when the mind is not so “divided and flying away.” If Rujing had meant the quote as a central teaching, it would likely have been more frequent and centrally located in his record. (In fact, I happen to have given similar advice to a woman recently who is particularly troubled by her husband’s illness, thus finding it difficult to sit Shikantaza right now. Although I am not usually a proponent of Zazen employing a mantra, I told her to find a mantra ... such as “peace” or “allow” ... for those very hard times when she needs an anchor, and to pour herself into that. Afterwards, when she settles a bit, she can return to “Just Sitting” for a few minutes.)

    To conclude, none of the above is meant in any way as a criticism of “Kōan Introspection Zazen,” which I personally honor and respect, a powerful and honored path suited to those who find their own path there. Like so many other good Zen folks, Dosho seems now to find his path there (although his teacher, Katagiri Roshi seemingly did not, more about that another time.) My objections above are merely a historical comment: While Dogen and Rujing (and Ejo) celebrated, danced with and found moments of great opening and insight through the traditional kōans (nobody questions that), that is not the same as asserting that (1) Dogen and Rujing (or Ejo) were actually practitioners of Kōan Introspection Zazen, or (2) that they felt that a big boomin’ Kensho experience is the most important, indispensable or only form of realization, awakening, enlightenment and liberation that matters, or even very important or necessary.

    In Master Dogen’s view of ongoing, moment by moment, “practice enlightenment” in all our daily activities, what is truly vital are the day to day insights, embodiments and realizations that get in the bones. Realization, awakening, liberation walks with our legs through 10,000 doors.

    Gassho, Jundo

    STLah

    Sorry to run long
    Last edited by Jundo; 11-09-2022 at 02:07 AM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  2. #2

    Dosho, Dogen, Rujing and History

    “Sorry to run long.”

    That is the koan. :-)

    Gassho,
    Ryūmon (Kirk)
    Sat
    流文

    I know nothing.

  3. #3
    I can't believe au contraire appears twice in the post (but I get that Jundo was sort of using Dosho's phraseology).

    Thank you Jundo for that well argued post.

    Gassho, Shinshi

    SaT-LaH
    空道 心志 Kudo Shinshi
    I am just a priest-in-training, any resemblance between what I post and actual teachings is purely coincidental.
    E84I - JAJ

  4. #4
    Thank you Jundo. That was quite a read. Now I’ll go and just sit.


    Tairin
    Sat today and lah
    泰林 - Tai Rin - Peaceful Woods

  5. #5
    Thank you, Jundo. I learned a lot from your post.

    Gassho,
    Onkai
    Sat/lah
    美道 Bidou Beautiful Way
    恩海 Onkai Merciful/Kind Ocean

    I have a lot to learn; take anything I say that sounds like teaching with a grain of salt.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Onkai View Post
    Thank you, Jundo. I learned a lot from your post.

    Gassho,
    Onkai
    Sat/lah
    I am content to report that, after reading my essay, Zen practitioner, writer and historian (author of the highly recommended "Circle of the Way": https://asianreviewofbooks.com/conte...arbara-obrien/) said she concurs:

    Barbara O'Brien
    I agree entirely with Jundo here. And I addressed this issue briefly in my "Circle of the Way" book (pp. 205-206).
    ~~~~
    I have met several Rinzai practitioners over the years who just can't believe Dogen didn't teach koan contemplation. They find it significant that he brought koans back from Japan with him and referred to them in his writing. However, the koan or gong-an literature in China never belonged to any one school. Indeed, the classic koan collection of the Book of Serenity is the work of Caodong masters. There was nothing remarkable about a Caodong/Soto teacher appreciating and teaching the literature. The notion that koans belonged exclusively to the Rinzai school is one that developed in Japan a few centuries after Dogen.

    Dogen wrote about every aspect of monastic life with great detail. If he had meant his students to contemplate huatou, as Dahui taught, he certainly would have written about it and given direction for it. He didn't.

    And I agree that it is ridiculous to think that Rujing's lineage wasn't well known to his students.

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/Soto...440692&__cft__[0]=AZUmNRz1sDty1Schpgg3Mc4G3O94sqL2iqKW4Gvg9Gt4YpCIj ArTXRUg53ymlKPCjXvlNETWavgm5S7XIJdi8N7_7baCzf2PKk0 qPtJ6LsKCVZ7ZIoq_OkzdfHV3PUafBqdDzHbNFcG2zYSViVg01 Au3qs6hMsrC7UO7zjOi-48-MlP39dOk7S5rhAVG1S2haYg&__tn__=R]-R
    Gassho, J

    STLah
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  7. #7
    Thank you for sharing this It was very interesting to read

    Whatever the case, I think we are evaluating Dogen's teachings in retrospect from our 21st century. Before I quite by chance found the translation of ‘On The Flowering of the Dharma Sets the Dharma’s Flowering in Motion’ in a scientific journal, I thought that Dogen generally denies the teachings of the Lotus Sutra. Which would be strange for a former Tendai monk. Shobogenzo is not fully translated into Ukrainian or Russian. There is only a complete translation of the Shobogenzo Zuimonki.

    I think what was normal for monks in the past (like combining tantra, nembutsu, zazen and sutra study) now is very eclectic. Modern schools, I think, are very separated from each other. They ignore the experience of others in order to develop their own identity. But at the same time, it cannot be denied that the core of Dogen's practice was precisely Shikantaza, and not koans or the Lotus Sutra.

    Gassho
    Wabo
    ST

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Wabo View Post
    ... it cannot be denied that the core of Dogen's practice was precisely Shikantaza, and not koans or the Lotus Sutra.
    Well, Dogen loved the Lotus Sutra (and old Koans too), which were not separate from Shikantaza for him. All one thing.

    Is an essay by Soto priest and historian, Taigen Leighton, on Dogen and the Lotus Sutra (and Taigen wrote a book about this too).

    http://www.thezensite.com/ZenEssays/..._a_Source.html

    Gassho, J

    STLah
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  9. #9
    This made me think about something, which I guess should have been obvious, but wasn't. Back in Dogen's time, knowing koans was probably seen as a sort of esoteric knowledge that only those in monasteries had, because they were the only ones to have collections of koans. (Though I assume that some were transmitted orally.) So Rinzai koan practice was a somewhat "secret" form of dharma transmission. Would it be correct to think of it in that way?

    gram
    流文

    I know nothing.

  10. #10
    This made me think about something, which I guess should have been obvious, but wasn't. Back in Dogen's time, knowing koans was probably seen as a sort of esoteric knowledge that only those in monasteries had, because they were the only ones to have collections of koans. (Though I assume that some were transmitted orally.) So Rinzai koan practice was a somewhat "secret" form of dharma transmission. Would it be correct to think of it in that way?
    Good question! I suspect that monasteries were seen as the holders of a secret form of knowledge in many ways, as I doubt many people would have access to a lot of dharma texts and sutras, such as Shobogenzo, and wonder if koans were just another aspect of that for the laity? With most religions there seems to be a public side which lay people get to witness, and then a hidden side known only to the clergy.

    Gassho
    Kokuu
    -sattoday-

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryumon View Post
    This made me think about something, which I guess should have been obvious, but wasn't. Back in Dogen's time, knowing koans was probably seen as a sort of esoteric knowledge that only those in monasteries had, because they were the only ones to have collections of koans. (Though I assume that some were transmitted orally.) So Rinzai koan practice was a somewhat "secret" form of dharma transmission. Would it be correct to think of it in that way?

    gram
    Not only would few if anyone know anything about Koans outside the monastery ...

    ... I wonder how much people inside the monastery actually knew about Koans, given that the Japanese did not speak Chinese, did not get the Chinese obscure poetic references, Chinese slang and Chinese jokes from hundreds of years before, could not google the names of ancestors, could not know the realities of Zen and Buddhist history, and probably were of narrow education trying to understand whatever strange things their teacher was doing by slapping and making circles in the air.

    Probably, the average lay person today has a much better understanding of many such things. It is not that the Koans are to be understood intellectually (they are not), but some information is important, and people in the past were probably really in the dark.

    Gassho, J

    STlah
    Last edited by Jundo; 03-22-2022 at 08:47 PM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    Not only would few if anyone know anything about Koans outside the monastery ...
    It would be interesting to know if some of the koan stories made it out into the world. The monks certainly spoke with lay people, and perhaps some of them circulated. Any idea if there's been any research into this? It would be hard to know; the best you can do is look in literature, and there wasn't much at the time, and all of it was by and for the aristocracy. But I wonder if in later centuries there is any trace of koan stories being share among lay people.

    Gassho,

    Ryūmon (Kirk)

    sat
    流文

    I know nothing.

  13. #13
    That was a fascinating read, thanks Jundo

    Gassho,

    Heiso

    StLah

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryumon View Post
    It would be interesting to know if some of the koan stories made it out into the world. The monks certainly spoke with lay people, and perhaps some of them circulated. Any idea if there's been any research into this? It would be hard to know; the best you can do is look in literature, and there wasn't much at the time, and all of it was by and for the aristocracy. But I wonder if in later centuries there is any trace of koan stories being share among lay people.

    Gassho,

    Ryūmon (Kirk)

    sat
    Oh, there were some lay persons in China and Japan who were very serious Zen students (see link below for one example), and would have known and worked with the Koans. But they would still have had to head to the monastery and work with a teacher directly, as no video or phone (maybe a written letter or visit from time to time). Some in the very elite literary and political classes in China and Japan were interested, and would have had some familiarity with these things, together with Confucian, Daoist and general literature and lore. But it would have been a rather casual understanding. For the Japanese, even though the educated folks read Chinese to some degree, it might have been like a modern Spaniard reading Dante in the original Italian without a guide ... and without much idea about the hundreds of years old puns, slang and poetic references. As well, add to that how strange is the content of a Koan, even beyond other Mahayana literature, even with a good linguistic understanding! Of course, they would be on their own to figure out themselves the Zen Buddhist intent of the very strange dialogues of any Koan unless finding a teacher (assuming that the teacher himself even had a good handle on the matter).

    There is some good scholarly work on the interchange between Zen folks in China and Japan and the more educated classes. Of course, the "common man" (let alone any but the rarest of women back then) would have had even less contact, opportunity or interest in any of this.

    https://frogbear.org/guest-lecture-d...chan-buddhism/

    Gassho, J

    STLah
    Last edited by Jundo; 03-22-2022 at 09:23 PM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  15. #15
    For the Japanese, even though the educated folks read Chinese to some degree, it might have been like a modern Spaniard reading Dante in the original Italian without a guide ...
    Um... I could swear I read the biography of Yotaku Bankei, which said that he and his teacher Dosha Chogen communicated through letters. Bankei didn't speak Chinese and Dosha didn't speak Japanese, but they communicated in kanji. And this happened in the 17th century.

    Gassho
    Wabo
    ST

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Wabo View Post
    Um... I could swear I read the biography of Yotaku Bankei, which said that he and his teacher Dosha Chogen communicated through letters. Bankei didn't speak Chinese and Dosha didn't speak Japanese, but they communicated in kanji. And this happened in the 17th century.

    Gassho
    Wabo
    ST
    Oh, it was possible to communicate in written Kanji between educated Chinese and Japanese of the same period, and the meanings could be basically understood, because many educated Japanese (like Dogen) knew how to write and read Chinese.

    But the difference between cultures, over hundreds of years, and the strange nature of the content of the Koans, adds more levels of difference. Most Japanese monks of later periods after Dogen did not write and read Chinese at such a sophisticated level (some did.) The difference in centuries adds difficulty. The Koans were also written, not in formal written Chinese, but in a slangy spoken style (kind of like me trying to understand Hip Hop lyrics 500 years from now.) Also, the nature of Koans themselves makes them difficult. For example, think how difficult it is for you to understand this Koan now in English, even though you read decent English (Unlike you, Wabo, they did not have "Google translate" ) (Book of Serenity Case 44):

    PREFACE TO THE ASSEMBLY
    The lion attacks the elephant,- the Garuda strikes the dragon. Soaring or
    crawling, king and minister are discerned. We monks should maintain host
    and guest. When a person debases heavenly dignity, how do you cut him
    off?

    MAIN CASE
    Attention! A monk said to Ho Osho of Koyo, "A dragon-king leaves the
    ocean, and heaven and earth are calm. Meet him face to face and then what?"
    The master replied, "The Garuda attains the universe. At such a time, who
    would dare stick his head out?" The monk countered, "When the head sticks
    out, then what?" Koyo answered, "It's like a falcon seizing a dove. If you don't
    understand, check in front of the balcony and know the truth." The monk
    then said, "Well then, I clasp my hands on my chest and retreat three steps."
    And Koyo remarked, "Blind turtle pinned under Sumeru. Don't get hit on
    the forehead and scarred again!"

    APPRECIATORY VERSE
    The imperial order descends, the general's order disperses.
    Within the fortress, the emperor,- outside the walls, the general.
    Thunder doesn't wait for the astonished bugs to crawl out.
    You'll never know the wind has stopped the flowing clouds.
    The loom's lower warp is continuous and golden needle and jeweled
    thread are naturally there.
    Plain and vast before sealing, originally there's no ideograph, or worm hole
    Even though that is English, the meaning of many of the references is lost with time. Can you read the old Ukranian "The Tale of Igor's Campaign" (Слово о пълкѹ Игоревѣ) easily in the original?



    Gassho, J

    STLah
    Last edited by Jundo; 03-24-2022 at 01:58 AM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  17. #17
    Thank you Jundo.

    I save this for reference and for reading again soon.

    Gassho,

    Kyonin
    Sat/LAH
    Hondō Kyōnin
    奔道 協忍

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyonin View Post
    Thank you Jundo.

    I save this for reference and for reading again soon.

    Gassho,

    Kyonin
    Sat/LAH
    Same! Thank you Jundo

    Gassho, Tomás
    Sat

  19. #19
    Even though that is English, the meaning of many of the references is lost with time. Can you read the old Ukranian "The Tale of Igor's Campaign" (Слово о пълкѹ Игоревѣ) easily in the original?
    Hey

    Yes, I understand what you mean. By the way, the original "The Tale of Igor's Campaign" has not been preserved. And this picture is an excerpt from "The Tale of Bygone Years". But it is also difficult to find a text more than 200 years old. You can find Birch bark manuscripts from 1000 years ago, but the writing system has changed a lot since then. However, they are still readable. The differences in the Slavic languages are not very significant. Ukrainians can understand the Polish language after two days of communication with the Poles. Without any google translator.

    1423758474_1548064343.jpg

    Gassho
    Wabo
    ST

  20. #20
    Even though that is English, the meaning of many of the references is lost with time. Can you read the old Ukranian "The Tale of Igor's Campaign" (Слово о пълкѹ Игоревѣ) easily in the original?
    I think there are two things here. One is the writing and language, sort of like in English, reading Chaucer, or even older Old English, but the other is, as Jundo says, the references to people and events. As I look on social media today, everyone is talking about Will Smith smacking Chris Rock on stage an the Oscars ceremony, and that could be turned into a koan. But 1,000 years from now, no one will know who Will Smith and Chris Rock were, or what an "oscar" was, and so much more.

    Gassho,

    Ryūmon (Kirk)

    sat
    流文

    I know nothing.

  21. #21
    no one will know who Will Smith and Chris Rock were, or what an "oscar" was, and so much more.
    Perhaps someone in Ukraine today would not even know.

    By the way, Wabo. I heard Lutsk was hit hard today. I am glad that you and your grandmother are okay.

    Gassho, J

    STLah
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  22. #22
    By the way, Wabo. I heard Lutsk was hit hard today. I am glad that you and your grandmother are okay.

  23. #23
    Thank you very much, Jundo.

    It was clarifying to read this.

    Gassho, Enis

    STLah

  24. #24
    I'm not sure it's worth starting a new thread over, and I'm more posting this in case it is of interest to anyone, but I noticed a new post from Dosho Port yesterday - https://www.patheos.com/blogs/wildfo...as-passed.html

    I'm not well enough versed in the history of the late 19th and early 20th century reforms of Soto Zen to offer much comment on how he has presented that era, and I think Jundo has already addressed in this post and others about how Dosho describes the place of awakening and Shikantaza within the Soto school. But the following quote confused me a little:

    Rather than a path of vivid practice verification, the PMSO [Post-Meiji Soto Orthodoxy] only offers to meet people’s belonging needs, a trivialized and truncated dharma belief system, lots of ceremony, and a little zazen
    It's not clear to me if he is talking about how Soto Zen is practiced in Japan or the rest of the world. Because if it's the latter, I've sat with various groups over the years and while they differ in the amount of ceremony, none have trivialised the dharma, and all emphasise the importance of zazen. Oh well, maybe I've been lucky!

    Apologies for running long.

    Gassho,

    Heiso

    StLah

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Heiso View Post
    I'm not sure it's worth starting a new thread over, and I'm more posting this in case it is of interest to anyone, but I noticed a new post from Dosho Port yesterday - https://www.patheos.com/blogs/wildfo...as-passed.html

    I'm not well enough versed in the history of the late 19th and early 20th century reforms of Soto Zen to offer much comment on how he has presented that era, and I think Jundo has already addressed in this post and others about how Dosho describes the place of awakening and Shikantaza within the Soto school. But the following quote confused me a little:

    ...

    It's not clear to me if he is talking about how Soto Zen is practiced in Japan or the rest of the world. Because if it's the latter, I've sat with various groups over the years and while they differ in the amount of ceremony, none have trivialised the dharma, and all emphasise the importance of zazen. Oh well, maybe I've been lucky!
    Hi Heiso,

    The historical background is basically true, but Dosho puts a certain twist on the story, and leaves out a few facts, that I would contend. Yes, the part about Buddhism being under siege by modernism and Christian missionaries in Japan, and their developing a system basically of ethics for laypeople in response, is all true. It was felt that most lay people in Japan in the late 19th century would have no interest in Zazen practice, so Soto-shu thought about making a chanting practice resembling Pure Land Buddhism, and finally published a cut and paste book of Dogen (the Shushogi) that is basically Dogen with all the Zazen cut out. That is all true.

    However, it is incorrect to say that most in Soto-shu ever rejected "Koans." No, Dogen's writings (even the Shushogi) are wall to wall Koans, even with regard to ethics. What was rejected by most (not all) in Soto Zen was "Koan Introspection Zazen," which is Zazen focused on a Koan or Koan phrase. Yes, the Soto-shu felt that most ordinary Japanese would not take up a Zazen practice, that is true. But, it was felt by most in Soto-shu, the Zazen that most average Japanese people would struggle with was mostly Shikantaza (and the Rinzai folks came to the very same conclusion about their Koan Introspection Zazen, and also made a mostly ethical and arts path for lay people, rather than a Zazen path, for like reasons.)

    The emphasis on "awakening" was never lost, even if it was felt that most Japanese lay people could not undertake an intensive practice.

    There were several "back to basics" opposition groups to this watered down Zen (which, by the way, still largely exists in Japan, where 98% of Buddhism is centered on temples as places for funerals for family ancestors, not Zazen or most other Buddhist practices). Dosho makes it sound like the main resistance to these changes came from Harada Daiun Roshi and Yasutani Hakuun Roshi, who advocated Koan Introspection Zazen, and who are the source of all the mixed Soto-Rinzai lineages in America and elsewhere in the west today. In fact, theirs was a very small minority movement within Soto-shu in Japan, and largely remains so. Most Soto Zen folks who advocated a "return to Zazen" even for lay folks emphasized Shikantaza, such as Homeless Kodo Sawaki (whom he briefly mentions), not Koan Introspection.

    In any case, that was and is the situation in Japan. The Americas and Europe are very different. Apart from Japanese families who practice Soto Zen as their family tradition inherited from Japan, the vast majority of teachers and students are convert Zennies much more interested in Zazen, serious lay practice and Buddhist teachings. So, Dosho wants to say that the only "serious" Zen practice is that advocated by the Harada-Yasutani Koan Introspection people that he likes, but it is not true. People like Kodo Sawaki advocated a serious Shikantaza practice for lay folks, and it is very much alive and powerful too, and centered on awakening and authentic practice-realization in this life.

    On a separate matter, Dosho Port also left another important fact out of a different recent essay. It bothers me when he does. He wanted to make it sound as if Dogen took the title of his writings, Shobogenzo, from a book written by Dahui, the great inventor of Koan Introspection Zazen, which was also called "Shobogenzo." Dosho wrote this:

    I first heard rumors of Dahui’s Shobogenzo in the early 1980s and have been waiting eagerly to get my hands on it ever since, so am delighted that Shambhala has published it now. You might recognize the title – Dogen (1200-1253) borrowed it for his magnum opus. ... In any case, the common story nowadays is that Dogen borrowed Dahui’s title in order to straighten things out about the subtle, true dharma. But maybe Dogen was in such awe of the old master that he wanted to imitate him. After all, Dogen borrowed Dahui’s title twice [for Shobogenzo and the Shobogenzo-Zuimonki, also Shinji-Shobogenzo, attributed to Dogen].
    https://www.patheos.com/blogs/wildfo...ue-dharma.html
    It is amazing to me that Dosho leave out one important fact. I wrote about it elsewhere:

    A small point, as I have seen some commentary online that Dogen Zenji took the title of his Shobogenzo, also called the "Treasury of the True Dharma Eye" (or "Treasury of the Eye of True Teaching" as T. Cleary has it) from this book's title by Dahui. That's actually very unlikely. Although both Dahui and Dogen were gifted teachers with their own styles, and their writings are wonderful, they had very different styles, and Dogen, in portions of his Shobogenzo, was actually very critical of Dahui from the point of view of those differences. It is also unlikely that Dogen knew of this work by Dahui or, at least, he never quotes from it in his writings.

    However, most importantly, the title "Shobogenzo" is famous in Zen from many centuries before EITHER Dogen or Dahui, and refers to the famous Koan of the legendary origin of the Zen lineage, when the Buddha raised a flower and Mahākāśyapa smiled, whereupon the Buddha declared, "I possess the treasury of the true Dharma eye (shobogenzo), the wondrous mind of nirvana, the subtle dharma-gate born of the formlessness of true form, not established on words and letters, a special transmission outside the teaching. I bequeath it to Mahakasyapa." The phrase is thus as common in Zen as "he shoots, he scores" at a basketball game and is found used many, many places in Zen writings by many Zen writers of the past. If someone is discussing the common source and true origin of this shared title, they should not leave that important point out! (Not to mention that the real "True Origin" and "Common Source" of these fine teachings is the true "True Dharma Eye" smile.)
    So, Dosho maybe left a few important points out.

    Gassho, J

    stlah
    Last edited by Jundo; 11-04-2022 at 12:09 AM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  26. #26
    With the risk of going very very off the topic here, as someone who is also interested in nembutsu and Pure Land as expressions of zen-like no duality, I wonder how this practice of recitation of Shakyamuni or the nembutsu was viewed by the 19th Century Soto teachers who proposed it?
    Gassho,
    Mateus
    Satlah

  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by mateus.baldin View Post
    With the risk of going very very off the topic here, as someone who is also interested in nembutsu and Pure Land as expressions of zen-like no duality, I wonder how this practice of recitation of Shakyamuni or the nembutsu was viewed by the 19th Century Soto teachers who proposed it?
    Gassho,
    Mateus
    Satlah
    If I recall, they primarily thought that it would just be easier for lay folks compared to a Zazen practice, and that it would be received much the same as "Namu Amida Butsu" for the Jodo folks and "Namu Ho Renge Kyo" for the Nichiren folks. However, the idea was rejected because, well, Soto is not Pure Land or Nichiren. A scholar writes:

    The Sōtō Headquarters (Sōtōshū shūmuchō) soon took measures to create a distinctly Sōtō approach to lay proselytization. In 1878 it published the Sōtō kyōkai kaishū nikka zukyō (Daily Chanting Sutras for Sōtō Teaching Assembly Congregations) designed to standardize ritual at all Sōtō temples. At about this time it commissioned Tsuji Kenkō, one of the highest ranking Sōtō clerics to standardize the teachings for the laity. His lengthy manual, Sōtō kyōkai sekkyō taii narabini shi’nan (A Summary of the Sermons of the Sōtō Teaching Assembly Together with Guidelines), was published in three installments between 1879 and 1881 (Sōtōshū sensho kankōkai 1982a: 17–103). Its main feature is the implementation of the Shaka nenbutsu, or recitation of the name of Śākyamuni (namu Shakamuni Butsu), as the standard for lay practice. It taught that by reciting the Shaka nenbutsu, one is assured of the immediate attainment of Jakkōdo – the Buddha-land of Eternally Tranquil Light. This was clearly a response to the perceived lack of a simple lay teaching and practice, one that would help Sōtō compete for followers with other Buddhist schools and, especially, from the proselytizing efforts of Christian missionaries. This Śākyamuni recitation had many proponents among Sōtō priests, and there is evidence that its practice was fairly widespread. In addition to Tsuji, another influential and high-ranking Sōtō teacher, Sugawa Kōgen put forth a similar teaching in a widely-read tract (Sōtōshū sensho kankōkai 1982b: 1–16). In the end, however, rather than solving the problem as intended, these texts served as the catalyst for passionate debates concerning the ultimate doctrinal identity of Sōtō. Tsuji’s advocacy of a simple nenbutsu recitation, together with his adoption of Pure Land idiom drew the criticism that this teaching was a cheap imitation of Pure Land practices and had no basis in the Sōtō tradition. Thus, despite Tsuji’s manual having been initially authorized for use by the Sōtō Headquarters, this approach was ultimately abandoned.

    Amida

    At the same time that Tsuji and Sugawa were advocating a Shaka nenbutsu, other Sōtō priests sought a more accessible lay teaching through the adoption of practices normally associated with those of the Pure Land schools. This was so widespread that Ikeda Eishun could write that the Amida Sutra was the usual scripture used by early Meiji period Sōtō priests when proselytizing, and that they taught the chanting of the Amida nenbutsu and the reliance upon Other-power (tariki) for rebirth in the Pure Land (Ikeda 1994: 394–395). The two most comprehensive attempts to systematize and implement this Sōtō-Pure Land fusion were by the Sōtō priest and prolific author Yoshioka Shingyō and by the highly influential lay teacher Ōuchi Seiran. Yoshioka left his native Izumo in the late 1870’s in order to spread the Buddhist teachings as an itinerant priest among the common people of the Tōhoku area of northeastern Japan. His unique blend of Zen and Pure Land was certainly influenced by his close relationship with Ōuchi. In his remarkable text, the Tōjō zaike kedōgi (Rules for the Education and Guidance of the Sōtō Laity), composed between 1884 and 1885, This might seem extraordinary to a modern proclivity to accept contemporary doctrinal divisions between Buddhist schools as guides to what Sōtō priests actually taught, and to our concomitant proclivity to ignore the fluidity of pansectarian practices before the Meiji period. If this is so, the fact that Ōuchi’s recommendations in the Zaike kedōgi were actually accepted by the Sōtō authorities (where Tsuji’s had been recently rejected) and were printed virtually verbatim in the school’s first Sōtōshū shūsei (Sōtō Regulations) in 1885 will appear all the more surprising. In the introduction to Article Four, entitled “Summary of the Teachings of the Sōtō School” (Sōtōshū shūkyō taii), the teachings were divided into two paths – one for priests and one for the laity. The monastic path was based on jiriki, and was encapsulated in the phrase “solely through one’s own power, one becomes a Buddha in this very body” (tanjun jiriki, sokushin jōbutsu). In contrast, the lay path was based on tariki, and was described as an “exclusive practice based on a power other (than one’s own, leading to) rebirth in a single thought” (senju tariki ichinen ōjō).

    Although these regulations were submitted to, and approved by, the Minister of Internal Affairs (Naimu Daijin) in May of 1885, the adoption of “the teachings of Amida” (midahō) as the path for the Sōtō laity caused such furor within some segments of the Sōtō priesthood, and drew such derision from other Buddhist groups, that a mere three months after its promulgation, the Sōtō Headquarters was forced to issue a special notification repealing Article Four.

    https://www.academia.edu/8041424/Ort...%8Dt%C5%8D_Zen

    Gassho, J

    stlah
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  28. #28
    Thank you, Jundo. It really surprises me to see Soto adoption of jiriki and tariki nomenclature, as it seem so dualistic for Zen.
    Gassho,
    Satlah

  29. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by mateus.baldin View Post
    Thank you, Jundo. It really surprises me to see Soto adoption of jiriki and tariki nomenclature, as it seem so dualistic for Zen.
    Gassho,
    Satlah
    Oh, you know that Chan/Zen and Pure Land Practices are very much mixed on much of the Asian continent. For those who look to find some common ground (I would say that most ordinary believers do not), the answer is generally to find the "Pure Land" as not a place, as Mind, as the transcendence of self/other, inside out, and such.

    Gassho, J

    stlah
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    Oh, you know that Chan/Zen and Pure Land Practices are very much mixed on much of the Asian continent. For those who look to find some common ground (I would say that most ordinary believers do not), the answer is generally to find the "Pure Land" as not a place, as Mind, as the transcendence of self/other, inside out, and such.

    Gassho, J

    stlah
    Thanks, Jundo; I agree that the Pure Land is a metaphor for the Mind. I don’t know how is the official position of Pure Land in Asia, Europe or North America, but here in Brazil the texts I read in the Pure Land pages are exactly in this direction, linking Zen and Pure Land - they even sit Zazen (don’t know if Shikantaza) in Brasília’s Shin Temple.

    When we recite the name of Buddha, Buddha Amitabha is our own nature, the Pure Land is the Pure Land of our own mind. Anyone can attentively recite the name of the Buddha, thought after thought, and by concentrating more and more deeply, he will always find the Buddha Amitabha appearing in his own mind. It is not necessary to look for the Pure Land far away, a hundred thousand lands beyond. Therefore, if the mind is pure, the earth is pure. If the mind is defiled, the earth is defiled. If a bad thought comes to mind, then many obstacles will appear. If a good thought arises, peace will be everywhere. So heaven and hell are all in our own mind.

    http://jodoshinshu.com.br/budismo-te...-e-terra-pura/
    Gassho,
    Mateus
    Satlah

  31. #31
    It would appear that Dosho was unable to get anywhere with his Shikantaza until he started pondering "Mu." I sometimes get the same feeling from Aitken Roshi's writing.

    gassho, Shokai
    stlah
    合掌,生開
    gassho, Shokai

    仁道 生開 / Jindo Shokai

    "Open to life in a benevolent way"

    https://sarushinzendo.wordpress.com/

  32. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    Hi Heiso,

    The historical background is basically true, but Dosho puts a certain twist on the story, and leaves out a few facts, that I would contend. Yes, the part about Buddhism being under siege by modernism and Christian missionaries in Japan, and their developing a system basically of ethics for laypeople in response, is all true. It was felt that most lay people in Japan in the late 19th century would have no interest in Zazen practice, so Soto-shu thought about making a chanting practice resembling Pure Land Buddhism, and finally published a cut and paste book of Dogen (the Shushogi) that is basically Dogen with all the Zazen cut out. That is all true.

    However, it is incorrect to say that most in Soto-shu ever rejected "Koans." No, Dogen's writings (even the Shushogi) are wall to wall Koans, even with regard to ethics. What was rejected by most (not all) in Soto Zen was "Koan Introspection Zazen," which is Zazen focused on a Koan or Koan phrase. Yes, the Soto-shu felt that most ordinary Japanese would not take up a Zazen practice, that is true. But, it was felt by most in Soto-shu, the Zazen that most average Japanese people would struggle with was mostly Shikantaza (and the Rinzai folks came to the very same conclusion about their Koan Introspection Zazen, and also made a mostly ethical and arts path for lay people, rather than a Zazen path, for like reasons.)

    The emphasis on "awakening" was never lost, even if it was felt that most Japanese lay people could not undertake an intensive practice.

    There were several "back to basics" opposition groups to this watered down Zen (which, by the way, still largely exists in Japan, where 98% of Buddhism is centered on temples as places for funerals for family ancestors, not Zazen or most other Buddhist practices). Dosho makes it sound like the main resistance to these changes came from Harada Daiun Roshi and Yasutani Hakuun Roshi, who advocated Koan Introspection Zazen, and who are the source of all the mixed Soto-Rinzai lineages in America and elsewhere in the west today. In fact, theirs was a very small minority movement within Soto-shu in Japan, and largely remains so. Most Soto Zen folks who advocated a "return to Zazen" even for lay folks emphasized Shikantaza, such as Homeless Kodo Sawaki (whom he briefly mentions), not Koan Introspection.

    In any case, that was and is the situation in Japan. The Americas and Europe are very different. Apart from Japanese families who practice Soto Zen as their family tradition inherited from Japan, the vast majority of teachers and students are convert Zennies much more interested in Zazen, serious lay practice and Buddhist teachings. So, Dosho wants to say that the only "serious" Zen practice is that advocated by the Harada-Yasutani Koan Introspection people that he likes, but it is not true. People like Kodo Sawaki advocated a serious Shikantaza practice for lay folks, and it is very much alive and powerful too, and centered on awakening and authentic practice-realization in this life.

    On a separate matter, Dosho Port also left another important fact out of a different recent essay. It bothers me when he does. He wanted to make it sound as if Dogen took the title of his writings, Shobogenzo, from a book written by Dahui, the great inventor of Koan Introspection Zazen, which was also called "Shobogenzo." Dosho wrote this:



    It is amazing to me that Dosho leave out one important fact. I wrote about it elsewhere:



    So, Dosho maybe left a few important points out.

    Gassho, J

    stlah

    Thank you for such a comprehensive reply, Jundo. I had a feeling some of the facts may have been presented to defend a certain point of view.

    Gassho,

    Heiso

    StLah

  33. #33
    Life itself is the only teacher.
    一 Joko Beck


    STLah
    安知 Anchi

  34. #34
    Who knows if the udon I had for dinner was udon or something else sold to my grocer as udon? Neither of us knows much about imports with that squiggly writing on them. But it sure was good stuff.

    gassho
    ds sat/lah, I think.
    Visiting priest: use salt

  35. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Shōnin Risa Bear View Post
    Who knows if the udon I had for dinner was udon or something else sold to my grocer as udon? Neither of us knows much about imports with that squiggly writing on them. But it sure was good stuff.

    gassho
    ds sat/lah, I think.


    Tairin
    Sat today and lah
    泰林 - Tai Rin - Peaceful Woods

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