I am wondering what the Zen take is on the use of affirmations, and other ideologies that teach that your thoughts attract things, or that positive thinking creates success, etc. Can we see the world as we want to see it, yet see it "as it is" as Zen teaches? And Happy New Year to everyone!
Gassho
John
SatTodayLAH
Hi John,Originally Posted by JohnS
If you are talking about something like "the Secret," I think it is very much bullshit to sell books. There is not "power of attraction" by our thoughts.
Now, on the other hand, a certain amount of "positive thinking" and positive affirmations can do small, but wonderful things (e.g., when shy, before public speaking ... or a football team in a locker room ... someone can "psych" themselves up a bit. Positive thinking can get the shy person on the stage, and the energy flowing for the team.) However, that does not mean that things will come true (e.g., the speech may still be terrible, the football team may still lose.)
Gassho, J
STLah
Last edited by Jundo; 12-30-2021 at 02:35 PM.
ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE
Yes, Jundo, Im speaking more about the positive mindset stuff, choosing to see the world and our affairs a certain way, seeing outcomes the way we wish them to go. Can this exist where there is seeing things "as they are"?, if that question makes sense...
Gassho
John
SatTodayLAH
I think that this "seeing as it is" is very misunderstood.
Seeing with positive thoughts is seeing with positive thoughts ... seeing with negative or neutral thoughts is seeing with negative or neutral thoughts.
In Zazen, we encounter the world with an equanimious mind, less tangled in thought, perhaps softening or dropping the self/other divide.
But it is all the universe as it is ... the universe having positive thoughts, the universe having negative or neutral thoughts ... the universe less tangled and dropping the self/other divide ... all the universe as it is in that moment. The universe has these experiences with our hearts and eyes.
Gassho, J
STLah
ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE
Hi John
I think that in some ways that is what our Recommended Nurturing Seeds practice aims to do - gradually shift negative and unhelpful thought patterns towards more positive and helpful ones. Likewise our Recommended Daily Metta practice.
Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday-
I often think of the Verse of Atonement, the Four Vows, the Metta Verses, our Precepts, and even the Heart Sutra as affirmations of a sort. They don’t get me anything, but hopefully attract me to right view, or a way seeking mind (for lack of a more eloquent way to express this)..where there is nothing lacking.
Gassho,
Naiko
st
Ah, Kokuu, we must have been typing at the same time. You have said it better!
I think you said it perfectly, Naiko!Ah, Kokuu, we must have been typing at the same time. You have said it better!
Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday-
I do some visualisation before I do a speech at times just to get into the mood and pump myself up if it's a big audience. However, on the day, it rarely goes as planned. It just helps me to get on stage with some confidence. When I coach soccer, we also anticipate moves and play it in our head first.
Now, the BS is that if you say the world is abundant and you live in a poverty stricken country, the chances are that you will still stay poor. I'd rather teach resilience rather than affirmations to attract a certain kind of world.
Having said that, I do get requests to have a section on affirmations when I run corporate workshops. So, it's an attractive thing for
a lot of people.
Gassho,
Sat today,
Lah,
Guish.
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Has been known as Guish since 2017 on the forum here.
Replace “affirmations” for gathas, for example… Statements, declarations, acknowledgements we make. We do it daily, along with vows and good wishes etc… Think of it as expressions of faith, conviction or commitment. We can spread seeds of kindness and positivity, but we can’t control the outcome, nor should we live based on false hopes, ignoring what is.
Sorry for running long
Sat Today
Last edited by Bion; 12-30-2021 at 10:17 PM.
Bion
-------------------------
When you put Buddha’s activity into practice, only then are you a buddha. When you act like a fool, then you’re a fool. - Sawaki Roshi
For many years, I carried around a post-it note in my wallet upon which I had written the question "What is my highest intention in the present moment?" I would read it several times a day. I'm not sure if it was an affirmation or a koan (although if it was a koan I still haven't solved it.)
Gassho,
Juki
sat today and lah
"First you have to give up." Tyler Durden
The folks who note that the Gatha, Verse of Atonement, the Four Vows, the Metta Verses, our Precepts, and even the Heart Sutra, and Nurturing Seeds are kinds of "affirmations" ... I think you are right, in fact. They are wise and compassionate words and phrases we repeat in order to help change our thinking. Lovely.
Those kinds of affirmations, I can see.
Also, I see nothing wrong in thinking generally positive and accepting thoughts: If we have to think something (we do), we can think positive, yet realistic, things. I do not want to tell myself that I am the best basketball player in the world when I am not (I am not), but neither do I want to tell myself that I am the worst Zen teacher in the world (I am not, although far from perfect. I am pretty good, I think.)
As Stewart Smalley would say, "I have to give myself permission to give bad Zen advice now and then." I will repeat that to myself all today.
Do any folks remember Stewart Smalley from America's "Saturday Night Live"?
Sorry to run long.
Gassho, J
STLah
ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE
PS - By the way, here is the kind of "affirmation" based on the "law of attraction" that I am skeptical about ...
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/b...law-attraction
ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE
Yes, Zen and Buddhism are filled with many affirmations. I felt this very strongly this week, as we recited Metta during our Zazenkai.
Zazen, of course, remains the Affirmation of All Affirmations, the Affirmation of sitting itself which is an Affirmation of the whole world!
Gassho, J
STLah
ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE
Great article, Jundo.
As an outsider to LOA, I read it objectively and the success rate of 0.1 percent nails it at the end of the article.
Gassho,
Guish.
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Has been known as Guish since 2017 on the forum here.
Of course, the success rate of Zazen is 0.00, which is simply because we are not looking for anything like success. I guess that makes it 100% too, and 10,000%.
That's our "Secret."
Gassho, J
STLah
ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE
Hi Jundo,Of course, the success rate of Zazen is 0.00, which is simply because we are not looking for anything like success. I guess that makes it 100% too, and 10,000%.
That's our "Secret."
Gassho, J
STLah
There's such a firm belief in the practice without practitioners wanting anything. I was studying the following text yesterday: By virtue of zazen, many have transcended the common and the sacred. Some died while sitting, while others died standing, relying fully on the power of Zazen.
Gassho,
Guish.
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Has been known as Guish since 2017 on the forum here.
I don't believe in the Law of Attraction either and feel its way to make money off others. A lot of those teachers you find charge lots for their workshops, retreats, etc. I do think it's beneficial to have a positive mindset but not in a pollyanna way. On some days, you just have no good bad day and all you see is negativity. It happens. It also good to have goals but using SMART goals. Those are realistic and require action to achieve them versus wishful woo-woo wishful thinking.
"Affirmations" like the Gatha, Verse of Atonement, the Four Vows, Metta, Precepts, Heart Sutra, and Nurturing Seeds are more grounded. Repeating them helps to understand the meaning and helps to change.
Gassho,
Ekai
SAT
Last edited by Ekai; 01-04-2022 at 01:17 AM.
Well said, Ekai!
A moment of appreciation for the author of that article, who went so far as to become a certified Advanced Level LOA practitioner to enable him to more thoroughly debunk it! :O
-stlah
Affirmations can be helpful in addiction recovery. At the same time, zazen informs my acceptance that affirming good intentions will not keep me sober. So, both sides of the coin. Pun intended.
KTstlah
It occurs to me that my attachment to this body is entirely arbitrary. All the evidence is subjective.
Jundo, I think in this way we can begin to really understand the saying:Yes, Zen and Buddhism are filled with many affirmations. I felt this very strongly this week, as we recited Metta during our Zazenkai.
Zazen, of course, remains the Affirmation of All Affirmations, the Affirmation of sitting itself which is an Affirmation of the whole world!
Gassho, J
STLah
NICHI NICHI KORE KONICHI
Every Day Is A Good Day
In that sense, is there anything left to affirm??
Gassho,
Ippo
SatToday
I feel good about Dharma Recovery as alternative to 12 steps, And I go online. There is more to recovery than repentance and the Buddhism approach is another way. This program is meditation study and speaking. I have been going. Jundo, please don’t remove good . I’m behaving at home now-impossible. lol
Gassho
sat/ lah
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Peaceful Poet, Tai Shi. Ubasoku; calm, supportive,limited to positive 優婆塞 台 婆
Of course I remember Stuart Smalley. . . The funniest thing about watching that clip after not seeing the character in many years is how true a lot of it was!
Gassho,
Gregor
ST
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Jukai '09 Dharma Name: Shinko 慎重(Prudent Calm)
I think they are derived from different forms of yoga. We all know perfectly well about the connection between Indian Dhyana (observation), Chinese Chan, Vietnamese Thien, Japanese Zen.
But there was also the practice of dharana (concentration) as the previous stage of raja yoga. From it, the derivative word "dharani" means a long mantra. I think there is a huge range of tantric practices in there. Mantras, mudras, yantras, etc., on which the practitioner focuses attention. Also here I include the practice of Nembutsu, or Hari Krishna, as concentration on one, when the mantra is chanted thousand times.
I think the affirmation is also a kind of practice of mental concentration, originating from similar yoga technics. Therefore, if you ask what the Zen take is on the use of affirmations, then I think it does not apply to them. It is just another kind of yogic practice that has evolved along a different way. And the attitude to affirmations is the same as to mantras or something similar.
Gassho
Yan
ST
A lot of this reminds me of Sokka Gakkai Nichiren which I had heard of but didn't know much about so I watched a few videos and read a couple of articles. A lot of millionaire Hollywood celebrities saying if you just chant, you will be able to get things that you want. Really? Is this even Buddhism or a Buddhist version of the highly questionable Christian "Prosperity Theology?" No thank you.
Gasssho
STlah
Shoki
I've spoken with a few Nichiren Buddhists over the years and, ironically it was a Nichiren Buddhist who first introduced me to Buddhism in my World Religions class (at my Roman Catholic college!) eons ago.
She demonstrated her chant to our class with her beads. She was a kind, calm, ordinary person, wearing regular clothing. I liked her. I could understand her chanting clearly, and I wrote it down. After I got home, I tried the chant and practiced it often. It was calming and helped me to focus.
It didn't give me answers, but I liked the chant and I still use it sometimes because it helps me to focus and calm my mind in a certain way. But I don't stay there, I move on.
Nichiren led me to seek deeper answers, and ultimately I found Zen and Treeleaf.
Gassho2, meian stlh
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My life is my temple and my practice.
Oh my, that Stuart Smalley video was wonderful, thank you Jundo, I'll be looking up more of them. I agree with Gregor, it is very funny but there's also a lot of realness to it.
I read a book by the Dalai Lama, don't recall which one right now, where he said his morning chants were not prayers but reminders. That's kind of like affirmations, I think, to maintain our connection with the dharma.
Gassho,
Charity
stlh
Meian,
I'm sorry if I came off as sounding judgmental and critical. I was reading specifically about SGI but still, I'm in no position to judge.
I had a similar path as I sat with a previous sangha that had a lot about it that was really helpful and a lot that was really not good so it was ultimately not for me. But whatever it was, it got me here to Treeleaf.
Gassho
STlah
Shoki
Not at all, your post led me back to a beautiful memory. Be at ease.
Gassho2, meian stlh
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My life is my temple and my practice.
Just a footnote to drop in ...
Not all Nichiren Buddhists are Sokka Gakkai (SGI), which is a new religion which sprung out of Nichiren Buddhism in the 1930s, then later cut ties with (or, more precisely, had ties cut by) the mainstream Nichiren Sect. I would agree that SGI shares much in common with many evangelical churches in America, with an emphasis on proselytizing, faith, "pie in the sky when we die" and "prosperity gospel" whereby their chanting is supposed to have this worldly benefits of health, success and more money in the bank. There is also something of a pyramid structure like multi-level marketing, which means the people at the top get great benefit. They are powerful in Japan, including politically with their own major political party, and most of their millions of members were gathered when people left the countryside to move into the cities during the 20th century, but thus left the social structure and temples of their small villages and needed something to fill their isolation and lack of ties in the big cities. They are not alone, and there are literally hundreds of such "new religions" in Japan based on Nichiren teachings in some way (or Shinto, or some combination thereof), but Sokka Gakkai is one of the largest.
That said, not all Nichiren Buddhists are Sokka Gakkai, and my wife's family are mainstream Nichiren Buddhists. Nichiren was quite an interesting fellow from around Dogen's time in the 13th century who might be compared to Joseph Smith (the founder of the Mormon Church) or maybe Martin Luther. He declared his own revelations in which faith in the Lotus Sutra, and simply reciting one's faith in the title of the book (Namu Myōhō Renge Kyo: Devotion to the Mystic Law of the Lotus Sutra, a chant called the "Daimoku"), was enough to bring salvation and rewards in this life and the next. It is not even so necessary to read the book itself, just have faith in it and chant the Daimoku. In fact, Nichiren taught that that is the ONLY way to salvation in these fallen times! It also started as very evangelical back in the day, but soon evolved into a sect of Buddhism virtually indistinguishable from any other in Japan (also comparable to the modern Mormons in that way). In fact, as I often say, the average parishioner of any Nichiren or Soto Zen temple in Japan would probably be hard pressed to tell you the doctrinal differences, or much about the deeper doctrines at all.
But in any event, all these groups and churches, whether Sokka or Mormon, Soto Zen or Nichiren, are filled with many nice people.
Gassho, Jundo
STLah
Sorry to run long
Last edited by Jundo; 01-13-2022 at 12:17 AM.
ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE
Thank you, Jundo! Over the years, it seems I met Nichiren from various sects, including SGI, traditional (very strict), and probably mainstream.
Appreciate very much your explanation. They are not right for me, but I understand them better now.
Gassho, meian stlh
[Sorry for running long earlier]
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My life is my temple and my practice.
Unfortunately, I believe SGI is dangerous. Same as Shambala, there are many people fleeing their organization claiming it is a dangerous cult. There are two subreddits dedicated to this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/sgiwhistleblowers/
https://www.reddit.com/r/SGIcultRecoveryRoom/
Gassho, Tomás
Sat
I just find the way SGI presents themselves through their videos and literature to be a little strange and a bit off-putting. I read and look at their videos and think; Is this really the face they want to show the world? I don't get this vibe from other schools of Buddhism. There is a Sri Lankan center near me which I've visited and though that's not specifically my thing, I thought it was a very nice place.
The article on Law of Attraction reminded me of SGI. There are a lot of claims that they're a cult which makes me think they're probably a cult.
Apologies for running long but I just got a new coffee maker and I've been testing it out so I'm going to be a handful today.
Gassho
ST-lah
Shoki
This guy has a quote for everything
-stlah
Thanks,
Kaishin (開心, Open Heart)
Please take this layman's words with a grain of salt.
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