The Zen Master's Dance - 8 - Fukan Zazengi (middle of p. 37 to middle of p. 38)

[Jundo]

We continue from middle of page 37, "Give up even the aim of becoming a Buddha," stopping right before "The Mechanics of Sitting" on page 38.

Questions ...

How would giving up the aim of becoming a Buddha embody a taste of Buddha?

Can you describe some goal you are aiming for in life now but have not yet achieved, or frustration in life when a goal was not obtained? Describe your feeling of aiming now for something you are working toward, or disappointment about a past goal not achieved.

Now, describe it again with a description embodying "nothing to attain, nothing to become."

Both ways can be true ways to experience goals at once.

Please respond before reading other folks' responses.

Gassho, J

STLah

[Nengyoku]

I noticed a pattern in my life about a year ago. I have a tendency to set these lofty goals for myself, and when they are not fulfilled overnight I quickly abandon them, and then feel great shame about having failed.

One day after Zazen I had a moment of clarity where I asked myself why these goals were so important to me, and I realized that I was really trying to impress my parents. To make my father proud of me, specifically. I felt a lot of the time as a child that my father was ashamed of me, or at the very least spent a lot of time trying to defend me to others. And I wanted to prove myself I guess.
But anything I achieve now can never undo those moments of my childhood, they are all in the past, gone like a ball down the river. Everything I have "failed" to do is finished exactly to the degree it needed to be for me to be right where I am now.

So now, when I do things, there is truly nothing to attain. There is no summit for me to reach that does anything other than reach that summit. I am proud of where I am now, and that is enough.

And yet, I still climb those summits. But now, just to experience that summit.

Gassho,
William
SatLah

[Jundo]

And yet, I still climb those summits. But now, just to experience that summit.

And the middle of the mountain, and the bottom ...

[Geika]

Giving up becoming a Buddha is simultaneously acknowledging that I already am one, so to speak. Buddhanature cannot go anywhere or change, it can only be hard muddied by the unclear churning of samsara, so I do not need to grasp onto it, it is there.

More than anything now I want my own place to live with my husband. Rent is growing and higher and higher by the year and I see no way of getting there. I have faith that someday we will pull it off, but it's hard not to feel impatient or jealous of those who have their own spaces.

If I can flip this into a nothing to attain attitude, it would be like this: We are all homeless from the moment we are born. I have everything I need.

Gassho
Sat, lah

[Jundo]

[houst0n]

Hi Everyone, I'm late to the party for Jukai this year, I hope to take it next year (and, I think a year to work out if it's right for me is a good move anyway).

I am reading this book though, and would love to join your discussion

How would giving up the aim of becoming a Buddha embody a taste of Buddha?

This question I actually can't answer from personal experience, as I've never had the goal of becoming a Buddha. I mean; intellectually we all know by now such goals are somewhat of an an 'own goal' in practice, right? I would think, the goal of no goal is a taste of the Buddha; accepting this moment, living right here, right now with everything we have, good and bad, just accepting the current situation while we sit, is the whole point. I don't mean that there aren't things I want to change in my life, and things I'm not disaffected by, but when I sit, I am just sitting with things as they are, and I've found a profound sense of acceptance in that which has been missing from all my previous experiments at dealing with suchness, such as escapism via chemicals/books/film/whatever. I've found our no goal practice to actually be very much helpful in obtaining some goals.. _()_

Can you describe some goal you are aiming for in life now but have not yet achieved, or frustration in life when a goal was not obtained? Describe your feeling of aiming now for something you are working toward, or disappointment about a past goal not achieved.

This one is also difficult for me too (can you see a trend?), and is really a large part of what has drawn me to zen, and treeleaf in the first place. Literally, and honestly, I have achieved everything that I really dreamed for the last decade or more. I'm successful at a highly paying job, my family is financially secure, I can afford to buy whatever books I want; yet, when I got there, I still felt empty. I still do. I was still fully idealistic. Those ideals, the imagined future gains, became increasingly ... weaker motivations, to the point where even I couldn't convince myself they were things I really wanted, but just natural progressions coming from obtaining that previous 'success' or (modest) wealth. For the record; I'm by no means rich: certainly there are no yacht is in my future, but my family now lives by means unimaginable (or more likely; fully idealised at one point in my distant past, when I was living on 10p noodles at the end of the month) to me back in the day.. At the moment, my goals are more rooted in reality, and not just blind consumerism. I don't really care about obtaining a slightly better coffee grinder like I would have, or a new mountain bike. I want to make more things with my hands. I want to understand Dogen better. I'd like to be fitter, I'd like to stop smoking. I suppose, I've spent a lot of time blaming others for my failings on those parts, "Oh, I can't go for that 20km bike ride because I have to look after the little man", "I have a really tough week at work, bad time to quit the smokes" and so on. But I've learnt, and quite recently (perhaps related to my time sitting zazen) that I've been completely wrong on those fronts. It's all on me, I can make it better, and I must.

Sorry to intrude, if I have.

Gassho,
./sat
N

[Jundo]

No intrusion at all houstOn (would you mind signing a human first name to your posts? It helps to keep things a little more human around here. Thank you )

I want to make more things with my hands. I want to understand Dogen better. I'd like to be fitter, I'd like to stop smoking. I suppose, I've spent a lot of time blaming others for my failings on those parts, "Oh, I can't go for that 20km bike ride because I have to look after the little man", "I have a really tough week at work, bad time to quit the smokes" and so on. But I've learnt, and quite recently (perhaps related to my time sitting zazen) that I've been completely wrong on those fronts. It's all on me, I can make it better, and I must.

Oh you should do all those things ... understand Dogen better, exercise, stop smoking. Don't make excuses!

And yet, you are already Buddha, already nothing lacking, nothing to attain! Right now you are out of shape smoking Buddha, nothing to attain. Please become an in shape not smoking Buddha, nothing to attain!

From this ...



To this ...



But don't go too far!



Gassho, Jundo (on my diet since June, although I only weigh myself during doctor's appointments. I think I am down about 25 or 30 pounds?)

STLah

PS - I do not like the American modern attitude toward "body shaming," except to say this: If someone truly cannot lose weight because of a medical condition, then they are to be honored as they are. However, if someone can lose weight and get in shape, and it impacts their health and they don't just because of bad habits ... then they should get in shape and lose weight. I fear that one of the reasons that many folks have been so impacted by Covid in the USA and many western countries, compared to Japan, is because of the weight differences. (That is not a medical opinion, just my personal belief, and may be an unpopular attitude among some).

[houst0n]

Apologies, N = Neil. Hello there.

Arrrrr! Yeah, right, picture three is a little bit too far. I'm not doing too bad, I'm in "carrying a 15+kg three year old around all day in my arms" shape, which seems to be common amongst us dads.. We get really buff for a while until they stop wanting to be picked up! It's certainly done wonders for my core/biceps, need to get back out on the bike though, cardio awaits in my future :}

Diets are just pure math, if you go up and down a mountain in a day, the cake is probably natural... if you don't, then .... maybe not It's that time of year here in Germany where lots of cake (I mean, stollen toasted with butter? With gluhwein? .... *dribble*) is around, maybe though once a year "everything in moderation 'especially moderation'" is probably a better choice for your mental health than being a slave to the sums.

Ach! January comes, then we can all be miserable together! :}

Love,

./sat

Neil

[Tairin]

I am struggling with this little exercise. I feel like I must be forgetting some aspect of my life.

Anyways… most of the goals I’ve set in my life are the type of goals that just require continuous practice:
I want to improve my skills as s guitarist/musician so I take lessons and practice
I want to be fit and healthy so I weight train and run regularly. I watch what I eat both in terms of quality and quantity.
I want to be a good husband to my wife and a good father to my son so I make conscious effort to make decisions that lead me towards that.
Even my adoption of this practice is ultimately due to goals of being a better person living a spiritual life rooted in a good ethical foundation.

I’d say that any frustrations I feel is rooted in impatience and perhaps setting my expectations unrealistically high. But again the antidote (at least for me) is continually practicing and steadily just chipping away. Life is a marathon not a sprint. Each day is a new day to start fresh.

I think Shikantaza is a perfect practice for me in many ways. Just sitting there is a goalless goal. It is actually very humbling because it is in Shikantaza that I am confronted with my relative self. All the self talk. All the stories. The could-do’s, should-do’s, want-to-do’s. It is that realization that I take off the cushion and try to apply to the rest of my life.

Sorry. I feel like I’ve been rambling.


Tairin
Sat today and lah

[Seishin]

Tairin must have the mystical powers of a mind reader as his reply echoes my thoughts, even down to the guitar playing. I get frustrated that I have not developed as much as I would have liked but look back to when I started to follow a structured path, which Jundo I hope you are still treading, and see I have actually achieved far more than I thought I would at the beginning of the journey. So now my goals are smaller and more manageable, I just chip away a little each day. Moment by moment.

Sitting daily provides me with the acceptance that it is ok to deal with the reality of life moment by moment just as it is to sit breath by breath.

Sat

[Prashanth]

For a long time in my life, actually until recently, I really "went with the flow" without actually setting goals. As I proceed in my age, people around me remind me that I need goals: my bank tells me I need an investment plan; my doctor tells me I need a health plan; my relatives tell me I need to "settle down" (Indian lingo for getting married); my employer tells me I need to increase my annual targets and achieve even more; my insurer tells me I need to insure against even more risk; my ageing mother reminds me of my changing responsibility towards her; my recently deceased father reminds me to achieve all this (or the futility of it all) as life is short and can end any time; this sangha reminds me to just let it be, yet work to just let it be.

Now tell me what should be my goal and what would not frustrate me? (rhetorical question) I was way more happy and grounded as I was younger and didn't have all the above people reminding me about the heavy side of life.

sorry to run long.

Gassho.

sat.

Sent from my GS190 using Tapatalk

[Jundo]

Tairin must have the mystical powers of a mind reader as his reply echoes my thoughts, even down to the guitar playing. I get frustrated that I have not developed as much as I would have liked but look back to when I started to follow a structured path, which Jundo I hope you are still treading, and see I have actually achieved far more than I thought I would at the beginning of the journey. So now my goals are smaller and more manageable, I just chip away a little each day. Moment by moment.

Sitting daily provides me with the acceptance that it is ok to deal with the reality of life moment by moment just as it is to sit breath by breath.

Sat

Yet every single note, on tune or off, is Buddha and fully contains the entire symphony of the universe.

Gassho, J

STLah

PS - Still marching ahead with the Justin Guitar Course, as introduced by Seishin, although "power chords" got me and I decided to come back to them later.

[Jundo]

For a long time in my life, actually until recently, I really "went with the flow" without actually setting goals. As I proceed in my age, people around me remind me that I need goals: my bank tells me I need an investment plan; my doctor tells me I need a health plan; my relatives tell me I need to "settle down" (Indian lingo for getting married); my employer tells me I need to increase my annual targets and achieve even more; my insurer tells me I need to insure against even more risk; my ageing mother reminds me of my changing responsibility towards her; my recently deceased father reminds me to achieve all this (or the futility of it all) as life is short and can end any time; this sangha reminds me to just let it be, yet work to just let it be.

Now tell me what should be my goal and what would not frustrate me? (rhetorical question) I was way more happy and grounded as I was younger and didn't have all the above people reminding me about the heavy side of life.

sorry to run long.

Gassho.

sat.

Sent from my GS190 using Tapatalk

Whether one has an investment plan or no investment plan, health plan or no health plan, settles down or not, annual targets or missed targets, risk or no risk, responsibilities to mom and dad or not ...

... one is still always flowing with the flow of reality, whether one realizes so or not. It is just our hearts that might resist the flow.

There is no reason that one's heart cannot know equanimity and flowing whatever choice one makes.

Gassho, J

STLah

PS - (Today, I am deciding about taking Japanese citizenship, which is a really complicated procedure which could involve a U.S. tax audit I might have to do, immigration issues for my kids, lawyers, and all kinds of troubles ... and I feel your pain. I am trying to flow with it.)

[Prashanth]

Whether one has an investment plan or no investment plan, health plan or no health plan, settles down or not, annual targets or missed targets, risk or no risk, responsibilities to mom and dad or not ...

... one is still always flowing with the flow of reality, whether one realizes so or not. It is just our hearts that might resist the flow.

There is no reason that one's heart cannot know equanimity and flowing whatever choice one makes.

Gassho, J

STLah

PS - (Today, I am deciding about taking Japanese citizenship, which is a really complicated procedure which could involve a U.S. tax audit I might have to do, immigration issues for my kids, lawyers, and all kinds of troubles ... and I feel your pain. I am trying to flow with it.)

I will keep this in mind and get back to it when in doubt again.

gassho.

p.s: all the best for your citizenship decision

Sent from my GS190 using Tapatalk

[Onkai]

We continue from middle of page 37, "Give up even the aim of becoming a Buddha," stopping right before "The Mechanics of Sitting" on page 38.

Questions ...

How would giving up the aim of becoming a Buddha embody a taste of Buddha?

Can you describe some goal you are aiming for in life now but have not yet achieved, or frustration in life when a goal was not obtained? Describe your feeling of aiming now for something you are working toward, or disappointment about a past goal not achieved.

Now, describe it again with a description embodying "nothing to attain, nothing to become."

Both ways can be true ways to experience goals at once.

Please respond before reading other folks' responses.

Gassho, J

STLah

A goal I have been aiming for is preparing a novel length work of fiction for publication. I have written somewhat shorter works as well as short stories. There is one longer work that could be a novel but needs editing, and I have been putting it off. I feel disappointed in myself, and I feel I should be doing more.

I have written novellas and short stories, and possibly one novel length work. Writing short stories and novellas is experience writing. The novel length work doesn't have to be prepared for publication. It is just more fiction writing experience, as is writing shorter fiction. Life is meaningful even if I don't write as much fiction as I think I should or the type of fiction that I think I should.

Gassho,
Onkai
Sat/lah

[Gregor]

I'm currently on a bit of a mission to take better care of myself, eat right, loose weight, ect.

I have switched (back) to a low fat (no oil) plant based (vegan) diet. I have lost 50lbs.

Working with my doctor I have set a goal to loose an additional 30 lbs.

All well and good, but nothing to attain loosing the weight is a goal but not the goal. My body will heal and become the natural weight it is supposed to simply by eating the correct foods it has evolved to eat.

I don't need to strive or push just live each day naturally without tension the results will follow but nothing to achieve. This is just a process of returning to my natural state.



Sent from my SM-N981U using Tapatalk

[Tomás ESP]

I want to be in better physical shape. I tend to set out unrealistic goals for myself and then, of course, fail to accomplish them. And then I decide exercise is not for me. Seeing this happen several times and learning more about Shikantaza, I realize that the approach I have been taking was wrong. When walking, right foot, left foot, and so on. Step by step. And if goals need to be set, being aware and setting them with kindness towards myself, loving myself regardless.

Gassho, Tomás
Sat

[aprapti]

very often i have a big lack of energy.. i take antidepressants, but that helps just a little.. I have this already all my life.

i want to do many things (like being more active on Treeleaf ) but i just don't do it.
For many years i struggled against it, but the last years i don't do that any more. I just accept that this is my life and i am content with it the way it goes..


aprapti

sat

[Chikyou]

We continue from middle of page 37, "Give up even the aim of becoming a Buddha," stopping right before "The Mechanics of Sitting" on page 38.

Questions ...

How would giving up the aim of becoming a Buddha embody a taste of Buddha?

Can you describe some goal you are aiming for in life now but have not yet achieved, or frustration in life when a goal was not obtained? Describe your feeling of aiming now for something you are working toward, or disappointment about a past goal not achieved.

Now, describe it again with a description embodying "nothing to attain, nothing to become."

Both ways can be true ways to experience goals at once.

Please respond before reading other folks' responses.

Gassho, J

STLah

Asking some tough questions I had to think about this one for a few days.

I think that in order to become a Buddha, we HAVE to give up the aim of becoming Buddha. After all, isn't desire (even to attain enlightenment) one of the road blocks to attaining enlightenment?

Your other questions are tricky because right now, at this point in my life, I'm content with what I have and what I have achieved (while still working and occasionally worrying to maintain it. The house I bought last year requires continual upkeep, my generator is old and cranky and I'm trying to keep it going until the replacement comes in, etc.)

At prior times in my life, I definitely experienced disappointment (as well as a remarkable lack of self worth) which I now see had more to do with my mindset than it did with what was actually happening in my life at the time. You can be happy with nothing or have much and never be satisfied, and I was the latter.

Gassho,
SatLah
Kelly