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Thread: ARTS: Haiku help and comments

  1. #1

    ARTS: Haiku help and comments

    Hi all

    All haiku published in ARTS: Your Haiku will be left just as they are.

    If you wish any individual poems to be commented on, you can post them in this thread. I will then offer advice as to how a poem might be improved, although that will obviously be my opinion as a haiku writer.

    I may also refer you to articles and other resources explaining how to write a good haiku.

    Haiku are a traditional art form of some depth that it can take a lot of time to learn. I think it took me around five years to write a good poem and slightly longer to get published.

    Please only post one poem at once. If you post a list, I will just take the first poem.

    Gassho
    Kokuu

  2. #2
    This is my first Haiku:

    sun breaks through
    bedroom windows
    smoke of incense


    I haven't been able to pick up a seasonal message though. Maybe Autumn sun? Also, in the original haiku I wanted the last line to be related with the burning of my skin (which doesn't happen so often anymore, but it did happen before when I wasn't diagnosed) as a contrast with the nice warm feeling that most people get when they are exposed to the sun.

    Gassho, Tomás
    Sat&LaH
    Last edited by Tomás ESP; 11-01-2021 at 12:16 PM.

  3. #3
    Hi Tomás

    I think you some good images in there and those are what work with haiku. But ideally there needs to be a link between the incense smoke and sun which could come through the angle of morning (which may be what you are trying to do already) or, as you allude to, the burning sensation on your skin. We usually look for commonalities or contrast between the two images and here that might be through morning, heat or the fact that both sun and incense smoke rise.

    You can also turn the sun into an autumn kigo (season word) by calling it low sun, waning sun or similar.

    e.g.

    the low sun
    still hot on my skin
    incense smoke


    or

    the prickling heat
    of sun on my skin
    incense smoke


    or

    autumn morning
    rising with the sun
    incense smoke


    (this one has a pivot of a second line which can go with either line one or line two. It also includes blurs whether the incense smoke is rising with the sun or the writer of the poem)


    Just some ideas! The most important thing is getting the images then you can play with them.

    Gassho
    Kokuu
    -sattoday/lah-
    Last edited by Kokuu; 11-01-2021 at 04:47 PM.

  4. #4
    Thank you Kokuu Brilliant advice. I have been writting some more, but they all come out in Spanish. It's just easier for me to get 5-7-5 and also to use more beautiful and specific language. Though I feel that before writting more I need to read more.

    Gassho, Tomás
    Sat&LaH

  5. #5
    It's just easier for me to get 5-7-5 and also to use more beautiful and specific language
    You really don't need to worry aout 5-7-5. It refers to Japanese sound units in the original form and not English syllables.

    If you happen to write 5-7-5 that is fine, but the other elements of the poem are far more important than syllable counting.

    Gassho
    Kokuu
    -sattoday/lah-

  6. #6
    clouded day
    in ever changing patterns
    migrating geese

    Gassho,
    Kotei sat/lah today.

    義道 冴庭 / Gidō Kotei.
    Being a novice priest doesn't mean my writing about the Dharma is more substantial than yours. Actually, it might well be the other way round.

  7. #7
    Mind seeks shelter
    Cumbre vieja flows
    battle of tides



    Gassho.
    Prashanth.
    Sat today.


    Sent from my Lenovo TB-7305F using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Prashanth; 11-08-2021 at 02:38 PM.

  8. #8
    clouded day
    in ever changing patterns
    migrating geese
    Lovely, Kotei, and a beautiful pivot in L2 which can relate to both L1 and L3!

    The only part I might change is L1. Day is unnecessary as we can assume it is day because of seeing the geese so you could refer to cloud(s) more obviously as the subject e.g. 'low cloud'

    Gassho
    Kokuu
    -sattoday/lah-

  9. #9
    Mind seeks shelter
    Cumbre vieja flows
    battle of tides
    Hi Prasanth! I might recommend the following article which looks at haiku as a two part, rather than three line, poem: https://www.ahapoetry.com/h_t_fragment.html

    Having a different part on each line can feel a little choppy.

    You can change this by making L1 and L2 into a single sentence e.g.

    seeking shelter
    from opposing tides
    Cumbre Vieja



    There are many possibilities of relating to either the actual event, or symbolism of that kind of natural event:

    as if the earth
    were an angry god
    Cumbre vieja



    Waiting
    for my mind to still
    Cumbre Vieja



    What is the strongest association for you with Cumbre Vieja? What do you want to say? Are you talking about the mind?

    Btw, with your background, you might like to read the work of Indian haiku poet Kala Ramesh: https://thehaikufoundation.org/new-t...ramesh-part-3/


    Gassho
    Kokuu
    -sattoday/lah-
    Last edited by Kokuu; 11-08-2021 at 07:05 PM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokuu View Post
    Lovely, Kotei, and a beautiful pivot in L2 which can relate to both L1 and L3!

    The only part I might change is L1. Day is unnecessary as we can assume it is day because of seeing the geese so you could refer to cloud(s) more obviously as the subject e.g. 'low cloud'
    Thank you Kokuu.
    The clouded 'DAY' came from a day with a certain mood (dark/clouded) and everything shadowed by this (the clouds in ever-changing patterns).
    Looking up at the clouds in the sky and seeing the geese and seeing patterns and feeling somehow eased.

    dark clouds
    in ever changing patterns
    migrating geese

    Gassho,
    Kotei sat/lah today

    義道 冴庭 / Gidō Kotei.
    Being a novice priest doesn't mean my writing about the Dharma is more substantial than yours. Actually, it might well be the other way round.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokuu View Post
    Hi Prasanth! I might recommend the following article which looks at haiku as a two part, rather than three line, poem: https://www.ahapoetry.com/h_t_fragment.html

    Having a different part on each line can feel a little choppy.

    You can change this by making L1 and L2 into a single sentence e.g.

    seeking shelter
    from opposing tides
    Cumbre Vieja



    There are many possibilities of relating to either the actual event, or symbolism of that kind of natural event:

    as if the earth
    were an angry god
    Cumbre vieja



    Waiting
    for my mind to still
    Cumbre Vieja



    What is the strongest association for you with Cumbre Vieja? What do you want to say? Are you talking about the mind?

    Btw, with your background, you might like to read the work of Indian haiku poet Kala Ramesh: https://thehaikufoundation.org/new-t...ramesh-part-3/


    Gassho
    Kokuu
    -sattoday/lah-
    Thank you, Kokuu, for the kind advice and beautiful alternative formulations.
    Yes, the intention was to equate the thoughts and emotions coming out of my mind to the erupting Cumbre Vieja, but at the same time seeking refuge (perhaps in Zazen) just like the Lava flows into the waters of the Ocean.

    Thank you also for introducing Kala Ramesh.

    Gassho .
    Prashanth.
    Sat.

    Sent from my GS190 using Tapatalk

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Kotei View Post
    clouded day
    in ever changing patterns
    migrating geese

    Gassho,
    Kotei sat/lah today.
    Kotei,

    You described my day “today” but with cranes

    Doshin
    Sr

  13. #13
    Loss of a loved one.
    Wishing for a spring breeze soon
    Blow away winter's clouds

    Thank you for this thread. It has been a good opportunity to think about my word choices, both in poetry and elsewhere.

    Gassho,
    William
    Sat

  14. #14
    dark clouds
    in ever changing patterns
    migrating geese

  15. #15
    Loss of a loved one.
    Wishing for a spring breeze soon
    Blow away winter's clouds
    Hi William

    It looks like you are still trying to stick to 5-7-5 or is that not the case? The poem reads as what we tend to call 'haikuese' which is when normal rules of grammar are abandoned in order to fit the syllable count such as 'soon blow away winter's clouds'. Without the need to fit syllables, it is easier just to write normally

    e.g.

    loss of a loved one
    oh for spring winds
    to clear these winter clouds


    Gassho
    Kokuu
    -sattoday/lah-

  16. #16
    Yeah, it is a mold that I am finding it hard to tell myself it is okay to break out of. Thank you for the encouragement to do so.

    Gassho,
    William
    Sat

  17. #17
    So Very Sad

    With Poetry anger
    Flows because, like
    Broken sand trails
    In the sun, my
    Someday is done!

    I am afraid I will
    Not attain true
    Enlightenment, not
    Possible, I will die.
    Peaceful Poet, Tai Shi. Ubasoku; calm, supportive, limited to positive 優婆塞 台 婆

  18. #18
    Hello! I'm a new Treeleaf member and delighted to find this Haiku Club. I've been writing tanka, haiku & related forms for some years and I moderate an online workshopping forum for short-form poetry.

    Here is a one-line haiku I wrote recently. Feedback welcome.

    opening the door a wren sings under the rafters


    Gassho,
    Jenny
    stlah

  19. #19
    Hi Jenny

    It is great to have you here! Tanka have mostly eluded me but I really enjoy reading them. Do you publish anywhere?

    Your workshopping space looks lovely in that it is dedicated to Jane Reichhold, and designed by Ron Moss. Ron has written a number of collaborative sequences with my haiku friend Elisa, and his own work is examplary.

    That is a lovely one line haiku. All I would suggest is to move the wren song to the end so that you get the 'aha' moment last but that would probably involve moving to a three line format and defeat the purpose of your one line.

    One in return

    spring sun all over the eaves robin song


    Gassho
    Kokuu
    -sattoday/lah-

  20. #20
    Hello Kokuu,
    Thank you for your reply! Yes, I have published tanka, haiku & haibun in numerous journals, and also have published several books of tanka which you can find here. I used to write tanka exclusively but have turned more toward haiku in recent years.

    So for my one-liner, are you suggesting something like:

    opening a door under the rafters the wren sings

    Or

    opening a door
    under the rafters
    the wren sings

    Or maybe

    opening a door
    under the rafters
    wren song

    ?? I had not thought of putting the wren last.

    I love your

    spring sun all over the eaves robin song

    !! Such a lovely echo of my wren.

    Gassho,
    jenny

  21. #21
    Hi Jenny

    Thank you for the link to your site. It is lovely you have written so much great work. You can find some of mine here but I have not written much for a while: https://yearinhaiku.wordpress.com/

    I am not sure you need my advice on your monoku with your experience. I guess I was thinking of something like this but changing 'opening the door' to 'open door' may be too much for what you wanted to express:

    open door
    under the rafters
    a singing wren


    Gassho
    Kokuu

  22. #22
    Hi Kokuu,
    Thank you for your kind words about my site & my work. I very much enjoyed browsing your site--wonderful haiku, haibun & photographs! I see that our paths have crossed before--I had a tanka-prose piece in the same issue of Drifting Sands as your 'Autumnal' haibun. And Chen-ou Liu is an Inkstone member--I know him well. (Kala Ramesh is also a member and a good friend of mine.)
    Thanks also for your suggestion for my 'wren' haiku. It works well and I will add it to my list of possibilities. But I may want to keep 'opening' as in the original, because I want the 'impossibly true' reading that the wren or his song is opening the door--as I think it might do, metaphorically--a door into the heart/mind.

    Gassho,
    Jenny
    sat today
    Last edited by Jenny A; 03-09-2024 at 11:06 PM.

  23. #23
    I wrote a haiku this autumn.
    Its in swedish. But I decided to translate it to english today.
    Any advise?
    Seijin
    Sat/lah

    Frosen windbell
    Get detached from the tree
    Distant spring

    Frusen vindklocka.
    Plockas ner frĺn trädet nu.
    Vĺren är fjärran

  24. #24
    Hi Seijin!

    I like that haiku. A Google translation suggests that the windbell is taken down from the tree or does it fall?

    a frozen windbell
    taken down from the tree / fallen from the tree

    'distant spring' is a pretty direct translation of the third line and works just fine, although spring can mean both the season and a place where water emerges (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spring_(hydrology)). Otherwise you could say something like 'so long until spring' or 'how long until spring?' A slightly different take on that line might be 'no one talks of spring'.

    What do you think? Jenny might have some advice also!

    By the way, you might have seen this page on Swedish haiku? I remember seeing many written by Anna Maris: https://haikupedia.org/article-haiku...iku-in-sweden/

    Gassho
    Kokuu
    -sattoday/lah-

  25. #25
    Hi Seijin,

    I also like your haiku. I like the implied silence of the wind bell, deepening the silence of winter. I don't know whether you mean the bell was taken down or it fell, and you may wish to stay with what you observed. But if it did fall, or if you are comfortable taking a little liberty with the "truth," I like the alliteration created if you do this:

    a frozen windbell
    fallen from the tree
    distant spring

    I think it is clear from the context that 'spring' here refers to the season, but Kokuu's suggestions for the third line would work also.

    Gassho,
    Jenny
    stlah

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokuu View Post
    Hi Seijin!

    I like that haiku. A Google translation suggests that the windbell is taken down from the tree or does it fall?

    a frozen windbell
    taken down from the tree / fallen from the tree

    'distant spring' is a pretty direct translation of the third line and works just fine, although spring can mean both the season and a place where water emerges (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spring_(hydrology)). Otherwise you could say something like 'so long until spring' or 'how long until spring?' A slightly different take on that line might be 'no one talks of spring'.

    What do you think? Jenny might have some advice also!

    By the way, you might have seen this page on Swedish haiku? I remember seeing many written by Anna Maris: https://haikupedia.org/article-haiku...iku-in-sweden/

    Gassho
    Kokuu
    -sattoday/lah-

    Thank you. I like both your suggestions Jenny-san and Kokuu-san

    The haiku was written with the image of an upcoming winter and how the happy sounds of the windbell during summer now was gone, and spring seemed so far.
    398256905_6688065004623580_312466742082600819_n.jpg

    A combination of things you said could be:

    a frozen windbell
    taken down from the tree
    spring seems distant

    Seijin
    Sat/lah

  27. #27
    Hi Seijan,

    Thank you for the photo! Nice. Yes, your combination version could work. But in general words like 'seems' or 'appears' may weaken the impact, and they tell how the poet/narrator feels rather than showing. Something like Kokuu's "no one talks of spring" suggests or shows the feeling that spring seems far off, without directly telling it. You have several good possible versions. Have fun deciding which you like best.

    Gassho,
    Jenny
    sat today
    Last edited by Jenny A; 03-11-2024 at 04:06 PM.

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