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Thread: Transforming the Three Poisons

  1. #1

    Transforming the Three Poisons

    Slowly appreciating Bernie Glassman & Rick Field’s book ‘Instructions to the Cook’ and I came across this intriguing idea of transforming the three poisons into medicines. The practical point was, if ego or self is removed from greed, anger and ignorance you get a desire to see all beings get whatever they need, a flexible openness to the unknown and the energy to sustain the first two. How does this strike folks here?

    Stewart
    Sat

  2. #2
    Treeleaf Priest / Engineer Sekishi's Avatar
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    Apr 2013
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    I think this sums up our way nicely. When we let go of ownership, there is only “suffering”, not my suffering or your suffering, just suffering arising and passing.

    Without “self” and “other”, the left hand cares for the right hand without any loss or gain to be found.

    Thank you for sharing.

    Deep bows,
    Sekishi


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Sekishi | 石志 | He/him | Better with a grain of salt, but best ignored entirely.

  3. #3
    Absolutely! Free from greed, anger and ignorance we can’t but feel absolute compassion and generosity, except instead of them being misguidedly directed towards oneself, they now go towards everything. Since ignorance is what creates the divided mind, being free from it, there ceases to be any concept of “me and others”. I know that is why we have to work tirelessly and continuously to stay away from those three poisons.

    Sorry for the extra lines there!


    SatToday
    Bion
    -------------------------
    When you put Buddha’s activity into practice, only then are you a buddha. When you act like a fool, then you’re a fool. - Sawaki Roshi

  4. #4
    Lovely.

    Gassho, J

    STLah
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  5. #5
    This is wonderful. The title alone ("Transforming the Three Poisons") conjures up images of Taoist alchemy in my mind.

    I've always loved the concept of transformation as a practice. Nothing is added or subtracted. The energies of greed, anger and ignorance are not dispelled, they are transformed through practice into their opposites--generosity, compassion/love, and wisdom.

    Perhaps the ego is itself the lead we must turn into gold?

    Gassho,
    Seikan

    -stlah-
    聖簡 Seikan (Sacred Simplicity)

  6. #6
    Thank you all. I first encountered this idea of transforming poisons in what was probably a very twisted view of tantric Buddhism seen through a western, toxic masculine lense - have sex with an outcast prostitute while drunk in a cemetery and your yogic powers will be greatly boosted......I therefore tended to dismiss such talk.

    Stewart
    Sat

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Stewart View Post
    - have sex with an outcast prostitute while drunk in a cemetery and your yogic powers will be greatly boosted......
    So, you are recommending that I should give that up???

    Gassho, J

    STLah
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Stewart View Post
    Slowly appreciating Bernie Glassman & Rick Field’s book ‘Instructions to the Cook’ and I came across this intriguing idea of transforming the three poisons into medicines. The practical point was, if ego or self is removed from greed, anger and ignorance you get a desire to see all beings get whatever they need, a flexible openness to the unknown and the energy to sustain the first two. How does this strike folks here?

    Stewart
    Sat
    This matches our way. "Drop the body and mind". If there's no self, there's no suffering.

    Gassho,
    Sat today,
    Lah,
    Guish.


    Sent from my PAR-LX1M using Tapatalk
    Has been known as Guish since 2017 on the forum here.

  9. #9
    Very nice Stewart. Thanks for sharing.


    Tairin
    Sat today and lah
    泰林 - Tai Rin - Peaceful Woods

  10. #10
    I would also practise caution with the no self concept though. We may deny our emotions or feelings saying that they are not real and this will not allow us to fix things that need to be fixed. Am I being too logical about it?

    Gassho,
    Sat today,
    Guish.



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    Has been known as Guish since 2017 on the forum here.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Guish View Post
    I would also practise caution with the no self concept though. We may deny our emotions or feelings saying that they are not real and this will not allow us to fix things that need to be fixed. Am I being too logical about it?

    Gassho,
    Sat today,
    Guish.



    Sent from my PAR-LX1M using Tapatalk
    Well, recognizing the reality of no self does not and should not mean we deny emotions and feelings, but rather that we simply understand their origin and nature and handle them in a different way. We actually embrace them as something that comes along with being humans. When we speak of what individuals experience, it is our duty as boddhisatvas to treat that as absolutely valid and worthy of care, because the suffering that arises from these “empty” emotions is still very much real


    SatToday
    Bion
    -------------------------
    When you put Buddha’s activity into practice, only then are you a buddha. When you act like a fool, then you’re a fool. - Sawaki Roshi

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Bion View Post
    Well, recognizing the reality of no self does not and should not mean we deny emotions and feelings, but rather that we simply understand their origin and nature and handle them in a different way. We actually embrace them as something that comes along with being humans. When we speak of what individuals experience, it is our duty as boddhisatvas to treat that as absolutely valid and worthy of care, because the suffering that arises from these “empty” emotions is still very much real


    SatToday
    I agree with you. I mentioned it because it's called Spiritual Bypassing and in my practice, I have been very careful about it and have observed it happening with other people.

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    Has been known as Guish since 2017 on the forum here.

  13. #13
    JohnS
    Guest
    For the first time in my life, I see clearly the presence and effects of the three poisons in my mind. Seeing them as they are, exposed like this, feels a bit liberating in itself. Does Zazen transform them?

    Gassho

    John

    SatToday

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnS View Post
    For the first time in my life, I see clearly the presence and effects of the three poisons in my mind. Seeing them as they are, exposed like this, feels a bit liberating in itself. Does Zazen transform them?

    Gassho

    John

    SatToday
    Yes, Zazen and all our Practice helps transform them. Excess desire, anger, jealousy and other uglies may still do their things sometimes, but our practice leaves us better able to tame and moderate their extremes, and lets us see through them.

    Gassho, J

    STLah

    Gassho, J
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  15. #15
    From a practical standpoint, as long as you still "want", want the world to be different than it is, even if you "want" this difference for all beings, you still create suffering because the world is not the way you want it to be. Perhaps, better to radically accept things "as they are" for all beings, yet continue to work to improve.

    Gassho

    Dick

    sat/lah

  16. #16

    Transforming the Three Poisons

    Quote Originally Posted by Dick View Post
    From a practical standpoint, as long as you still "want", want the world to be different than it is, even if you "want" this difference for all beings, you still create suffering because the world is not the way you want it to be. Perhaps, better to radically accept things "as they are" for all beings, yet continue to work to improve.

    Gassho

    Dick

    sat/lah
    Well, there’s two sides to that, I believe. We can accept the unchangeable reality of the present moment, but knowing how karma works, we can definitely want for the “next present moment” to be different and can actively work to make that happen, yet accepting in each moment the true state of things, even when we don’t succeed (momentarily). I think equanimity does not kill hope nor should it make us give up on living by vow (which, I believe, is how as boddhisatvas we exist in the world).

    Sat Today
    Last edited by Bion; 01-02-2022 at 08:38 PM.
    Bion
    -------------------------
    When you put Buddha’s activity into practice, only then are you a buddha. When you act like a fool, then you’re a fool. - Sawaki Roshi

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Bion View Post
    Well, there’s two sides to that, I believe. We can accept the unchangeable reality of the present moment, but knowing how karma works, we can definitely want for the “next present moment” to be different and can actively work to make that happen, yet accepting in each moment the true state of things, even when we don’t succeed (momentarily). I think equanimity does not kill hope nor should it make us give up on living by vow (which, I believe, is how as boddhisatvas we exist in the world).

    Sat Today
    I will leave karma and its various interpretations out of it, but I agree that we practice to recognize the ingredients of our life and how to cook with them to make the best meal possible (to borrow a common metaphor), while SIMULTANEOUSLY accepting our life just as it is.

    Gassho
    Sat, lah
    求道芸化 Kyūdō Geika
    I am just a priest-in-training, please do not take anything I say as a teaching.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Geika View Post
    I will leave karma and its various interpretations out of it, but I agree that we practice to recognize the ingredients of our life and how to cook with them to make the best meal possible (to borrow a common metaphor), while SIMULTANEOUSLY accepting our life just as it is.

    Gassho
    Sat, lah
    I meant karma (voluntary action) creates very palpable consequences. Knowing that, we continuously choose to act in ways beneficial to other beings, or that might lead to beneficial results.

    Sat Today
    Bion
    -------------------------
    When you put Buddha’s activity into practice, only then are you a buddha. When you act like a fool, then you’re a fool. - Sawaki Roshi

  19. #19
    "if ego or self is removed from greed, anger and ignorance..."

    But how? Theoretically it sounds plausible, but how to actually achieve it?

    Gassho.

    Sat/lied down

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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Prashanth View Post
    "if ego or self is removed from greed, anger and ignorance..."

    But how? Theoretically it sounds plausible, but how to actually achieve it?
    Greed, anger and ignorance are products of our ego, or who we think we are or should be. However, those emotions or states aren't inherently bad, it is how we behave when we notice them that is important, so it is a lifelong practice-- not necessarily something that is achieved once and done with.

    Gassho
    Sat, lah
    求道芸化 Kyūdō Geika
    I am just a priest-in-training, please do not take anything I say as a teaching.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Dick View Post
    From a practical standpoint, as long as you still "want", want the world to be different than it is, even if you "want" this difference for all beings, you still create suffering because the world is not the way you want it to be. Perhaps, better to radically accept things "as they are" for all beings, yet continue to work to improve.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bion View Post
    Well, there’s two sides to that, I believe. We can accept the unchangeable reality of the present moment, but knowing how karma works, we can definitely want for the “next present moment” to be different and can actively work to make that happen, yet accepting in each moment the true state of things, even when we don’t succeed (momentarily). I think equanimity does not kill hope nor should it make us give up on living by vow (which, I believe, is how as boddhisatvas we exist in the world).
    Quote Originally Posted by Geika View Post
    I will leave karma and its various interpretations out of it, but I agree that we practice to recognize the ingredients of our life and how to cook with them to make the best meal possible (to borrow a common metaphor), while SIMULTANEOUSLY accepting our life just as it is.
    Well, sounds as if the three of you are pretty much saying exactly what the others said, which is also just what I would say ... so I have to agree with you! I call this "acceptance without acceptance," accepting thoroughly from one eye without self and other, good vs. bad, anything lacking, anything in need of doing ... and yet, and yet, not accepting from the other eye, lightly judging (i.e., judging what needs to be judged, but don't cling here either), knowing the bad and trying to make it better, doing what needs to be done ... with both eyes open together, a Buddha's Wisdom.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prashanth View Post
    "if ego or self is removed from greed, anger and ignorance..."

    But how? Theoretically it sounds plausible, but how to actually achieve it?
    As one sits in the radical equanimity of Zazen, not judging (except with a slight positive feeling in the bones), in radical equanimity, not grabbing thoughts, letting things be, sitting with a trust that there is nothing more to do, no other place to go, sitting for the sake of sitting ... the hard demands and judgements of the little self soften or are fully dropped away.

    Then, rising from the cushion, hopefully such insight stays in the bones as we return to a world of things to fix, places to go, work to do.

    Gassho, J

    STLah

    Sorry to run long.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

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