Results 1 to 23 of 23

Thread: Pain as a motivator

  1. #1

    Pain as a motivator

    I apologise that this post is so long.

    Well, it’s been a while since I posted anything. I thought I’d share my experiences of this year, in case anyone else has had similar things themselves. I have had quite a bit of pain (suffering) so far this year. I expect my situation may strike a chord with others here.

    Despite having long-term medical issues that give me chronic pain and compromise my immune response, I have been managing pretty well. Pride comes before a fall. Just as we are getting comfortable, the universe seems to find us a greater challenge.

    I remember saying to people here that I wouldn’t be joining the group that discusses practicing whilst sick, because I was managing OK! Ha!

    Dec 24, 2020 – I fell down stairs and ruptured a muscle in my lower back. It was interesting. A new pain to notice, but not to focus on too much. In eight weeks it had healed, and taking care of my precious human body, I strengthened my back with exercise, yoga, weights... So far so good.

    Mar 11, 2021 – I fell down stairs again. This time breaking ribs and requiring morphine for pain that just wouldn’t allow me to think. The morphine made me very itchy and terribly constipated (sorry to be so graphic). As is so often the case with modern Western medicine, the side effects can make you feel worse rather than better. Well, zazen came along but you wouldn’t recognise it from my body positions. A kind of itchy, fidgety zazen. But that was the best I could muster for 12 weeks.

    Mar 12 – The long awaited brain scan (CT scan). It turned out OK.

    May 20 – My sister’s funeral. None of us walk this earth for long.

    May 22 – Having to set aside the lingering rib pain and my grief, to embark on my second eye surgery. Even after two weeks my vision is disturbed by a snowstorm of floaters. I can’t see much, the world is bleary. On the bright side, I can sit in a more conventional zazen position.

    So I feel like I have been unwell most of this year. It does underline the fragility of human existence and motivates me to go to my zafu more often. Training as if my head is on fire, whilst hoping that it doesn’t actually catch fire. I feel more like a contributing cog in the world than an individual - in a good way. I have become more decisive. Not yet ready to join live zoom because I can’t see what is going on, but I’m still here, even though it may look/feel like I am rather a hermit.

    Pain is an interesting sensation. Doctors are quick to offer pain meds, but I don’t think it is realistic to think I can live a pain-free life.

    Is anyone else here in a similar position?
    I am always happy to hear advice – is there a better way to handle this? Or lessons that I missed?

    In Gassho,
    Seiko
    stlah
    Last edited by Seiko; 06-07-2021 at 01:30 PM.
    Gandō Seiko
    頑道清光
    (Stubborn Way of Pure Light)

    My street name is 'Al'.

    Any words I write here are merely the thoughts of an apprentice priest, just my opinions, that's all.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Seiko View Post

    Is anyone else here in a similar position?
    Yes. I am alive just like you.

    Gassho, Jishin, __/stlah\__

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Jishin View Post
    Yes. I am alive just like you.

    Gassho, Jishin, __/stlah\__
    Hello Jishin. Thank you for replying. I am glad that we are both alive.
    Bows.
    Seiko
    Gandō Seiko
    頑道清光
    (Stubborn Way of Pure Light)

    My street name is 'Al'.

    Any words I write here are merely the thoughts of an apprentice priest, just my opinions, that's all.

  4. #4

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Seiko View Post
    I apologise that this post is so long.

    Well, it’s been a while since I posted anything. I thought I’d share my experiences of this year, in case anyone else has had similar things themselves. I have had quite a bit of pain (suffering) so far this year. I expect my situation may strike a chord with others here.

    Despite having long-term medical issues that give me chronic pain and compromise my immune response, I have been managing pretty well. Pride comes before a fall. Just as we are getting comfortable, the universe seems to find us a greater challenge.

    I remember saying to people here that I wouldn’t be joining the group that discusses practicing whilst sick, because I was managing OK! Ha!

    Dec 24, 2020 – I fell down stairs and ruptured a muscle in my lower back. It was interesting. A new pain to notice, but not to focus on too much. In eight weeks it had healed, and taking care of my precious human body, I strengthened my back with exercise, yoga, weights... So far so good.

    Mar 11, 2021 – I fell down stairs again. This time breaking ribs and requiring morphine for pain that just wouldn’t allow me to think. The morphine made me very itchy and terribly constipated (sorry to be so graphic). As is so often the case with modern Western medicine, the side effects can make you feel worse rather than better. Well, zazen came along but you wouldn’t recognise it from my body positions. A kind of itchy, fidgety zazen. But that was the best I could muster for 12 weeks.

    Mar 12 – The long awaited brain scan (CT scan). It turned out OK.

    May 20 – My sister’s funeral. None of us walk this earth for long.

    May 22 – Having to set aside the lingering rib pain and my grief, to embark on my second eye surgery. Even after two weeks my vision is disturbed by a snowstorm of floaters. I can’t see much, the world is bleary. On the bright side, I can sit in a more conventional zazen position.

    So I feel like I have been unwell most of this year. It does underline the fragility of human existence and motivates me to go to my zafu more often. Training as if my head is on fire, whilst hoping that it doesn’t actually catch fire. I feel more like a contributing cog in the world than an individual - in a good way. I have become more decisive. Not yet ready to join live zoom because I can’t see what is going on, but I’m still here, even though it may look/feel like I am rather a hermit.

    Pain is an interesting sensation. Doctors are quick to offer pain meds, but I don’t think it is realistic to think I can live a pain-free life.

    Is anyone else here in a similar position?
    I am always happy to hear advice – is there a better way to handle this? Or lessons that I missed?

    In Gassho,
    Seiko
    stlah
    All I can say is that I feel greatly inspired by the way you handle it. I have a long history with pain as well. I was beaten up as a kid which brought physical pain as well as emotional instability for a long time. Now, when I look back, things are just the way they are and I have made peace with the past.

    Gassho,
    Sat today,
    Lah,
    Guish.

    Sent from my PAR-LX1M using Tapatalk
    Has been known as Guish since 2017 on the forum here.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Guish View Post
    All I can say is that I feel greatly inspired by the way you handle it. I have a long history with pain as well. I was beaten up as a kid which brought physical pain as well as emotional instability for a long time. Now, when I look back, things are just the way they are and I have made peace with the past.

    Gassho,
    Sat today,
    Lah,
    Guish.
    Ah Guish, I felt a great sense of relief when I made the decision to stop trying lots of different pain meds (for ME/CFS and Fibromyalgia). Deciding to just go with the flow and live with the pain actually provided a new sense of freedom.

    Of course, some medical conditions are so severe that pain meds are very necessary - and each of us must decide the best course to take in our individual circumstances.

    In Gassho
    Seiko
    stlah
    Gandō Seiko
    頑道清光
    (Stubborn Way of Pure Light)

    My street name is 'Al'.

    Any words I write here are merely the thoughts of an apprentice priest, just my opinions, that's all.

  7. #7
    When "sitting" while flat on one's back, rolling in the bed, itchy, fidgety, half-blind constipated zazen ... just roll around screaming itchy, fidgety, half-blind constipated zazen. It is perfect zazen. Zazen is not only about sitting upright, feeling balanced and peaceful with perfect digestion!

    As to the floaters, Dogen celebrated this ... I am sure that you know this piece by Dogen. Flowers in the Sky, which is actually about floaters and cataracts. Usually, those are taken in Buddhism as symbols of ignorance, but not in Dogen's clear eyed way of seeing ...

    [W]hen the common dullard hears of the Thus Come One's words "clouded eyes see flowers in space" they imagine that these are the "clouded eyes" of usual people. They understand that diseased eyes can perceive nonexistent flowers in empty air. Through becoming attached to this perspective, they think it means that the three worlds, the six realms, Buddha-nature, and Buddhas have no existence but are seen as existent by the deluded. They think that by eliminating the delusions of clouded eyes we will not see flowers in space because space is originally without flowers. I am sorry, but these people do not know the time of, the beginning and ending of, the "flowers of space" that the Thus Come speaks of. What Buddhas speak of when they say "clouded eyes" or "flowers in space" is a truth that cannot be understood by usual people or those that are not within the Way.

    https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/show...aracts+flowers
    Gassho, Jundo

    STLah
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  8. #8

    Pain as a motivator

    Gassho, Seiko. The last couple of months have been challenging for me as well. In addition to moving once again east to west, in the midst of which I went through a couple unpleasant dental “experiences”, my recurring back pain recurred and has required constant attention. My zazen has taken some interesting forms as well, but it’s still zazen. It reads to me that yours has been as well. You sit with me and I sit with you, however we sit.

    Apologies for going longer than three sentences.

    sat today
    東西 - Tōsei - East West
    there is only what is, and it is all miraculous

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    When "sitting" while flat on one's back, rolling in the bed, itchy, fidgety, half-blind constipated zazen ... just roll around screaming itchy, fidgety, half-blind constipated zazen. It is perfect zazen. Zazen is not only about sitting upright, feeling balanced and peaceful with perfect digestion!

    As to the floaters, Dogen celebrated this ... I am sure that you know this piece by Dogen. Flowers in the Sky, which is actually about floaters and cataracts. Usually, those are taken in Buddhism as symbols of ignorance, but not in Dogen's clear eyed way of seeing ...



    Gassho, Jundo

    STLah
    Jundo,
    Thank you.
    Bows.
    Seiko
    Gandō Seiko
    頑道清光
    (Stubborn Way of Pure Light)

    My street name is 'Al'.

    Any words I write here are merely the thoughts of an apprentice priest, just my opinions, that's all.

  10. #10
    [QUOTE=Tosei;286016]Gassho, Seiko. The last couple of months have been challenging for me as well. In addition to moving once again east to west, in the midst of which I went through a couple unpleasant dental “experiences”, my recurring back pain recurred and has required constant attention. My zazen has taken some interesting forms as well, but it’s still zazen. It reads to me that yours has been as well. You sit with me and I sit with you, however we sit.

    Apologies for going longer than three sentences.

    sat today[/QUOTE

    Hello Tōsei.
    It is good to know that I am not the only one doing zazen through these troubles.
    Yes.
    We sit together.
    Thank you.

    In Gassho
    Seiko
    Gandō Seiko
    頑道清光
    (Stubborn Way of Pure Light)

    My street name is 'Al'.

    Any words I write here are merely the thoughts of an apprentice priest, just my opinions, that's all.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Seiko View Post
    Ah Guish, I felt a great sense of relief when I made the decision to stop trying lots of different pain meds (for ME/CFS and Fibromyalgia). Deciding to just go with the flow and live with the pain actually provided a new sense of freedom.

    Of course, some medical conditions are so severe that pain meds are very necessary - and each of us must decide the best course to take in our individual circumstances.

    In Gassho
    Seiko
    stlah
    Seiko,

    I feel that you've found the middle path even while dealing with the medication. Over reliance on meds doesn't always help. Much Metta to you, brother.

    Sat today,
    Lah,
    Guish.

    Sent from my PAR-LX1M using Tapatalk
    Has been known as Guish since 2017 on the forum here.

  12. #12

    Pain as a motivator

    Several ( Jundo please let me go on a bit) years ago I was on 57. Mg Oxycodone and 10 mg Valium every day. My insurance company forced my pain dr to lower Valium. I decided on my own to switch to my primary who is Licensed in pain medication he brought me to 20 mg a day and gave max non narcotics. Last year I entered a hospital where they watched me as I left Oxycodone and already there was no Valium. And I do still have a Fentanyl patch but by next year that will be at the lowest I can manage and I will continue my nonnarcotic meds and the strongest biological available for an advanced case of Ankylosing Spondylitis and Jundo lets me sit in a padded old Office chair to sit and I do Shikantaza with all of you.
    Gassho
    sat/ lah
    Tai Shi
    calm poetry


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Last edited by Tai Shi; 06-08-2021 at 09:52 PM.
    Peaceful Poet, Tai Shi. Ubasoku; calm, supportive, limited to positive 優婆塞 台 婆

  13. #13

    Pain as a motivator

    Always always always consult with A Good Dr.!a Always
    Gassho
    sat / lah
    Tai Shi



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Last edited by Tai Shi; 06-08-2021 at 09:56 PM.
    Peaceful Poet, Tai Shi. Ubasoku; calm, supportive, limited to positive 優婆塞 台 婆

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Tai Shi View Post
    Several ( Jundo please let me go on a bit) years ago I was on 57. Mg Oxycodone and 10 mg Valium every day. My insurance company forced my pain dr to lower Valium. I decided on my own to switch to my primary who is Licensed in pain medication he brought me to 20 mg a day and gave max non narcotics. Last year I entered a hospital where they watched me as I left Oxycodone and already there was no Valium. And I do still have a Fentanyl patch but by next year that will be at the lowest I can manage and I will continue my nonnarcotic meds and the strongest biological available for an advanced case of Ankylosing Spondylitis and Jundo lets me sit in a padded old Office chair to sit and I do Shikantaza with all of you.
    Gassho
    sat/ lah
    Tai Shi
    calm poetry


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Hello Tai Shi,

    I am speaking to you from a far off land in the East (England).

    Thank you for replying.
    And thank for your practice.
    I am glad we sit together.

    In Gassho
    Seiko
    stlah
    Gandō Seiko
    頑道清光
    (Stubborn Way of Pure Light)

    My street name is 'Al'.

    Any words I write here are merely the thoughts of an apprentice priest, just my opinions, that's all.

  15. #15
    Hello Seiko, sending much metta your way, having all of this physical pain and losing a sister sounds rough. In my case, what helps is to really listen to my body. To respect what it needs. Sometimes I can deal with the pain and I am able to do "normal life", at other times when my body is really hurting and my emotions are all over the place, I am especially careful with myself, as if I were attending a baby that is crying, suffering. I have found that holding myself lightly, with loving-kindness and tenderness tends to mitigate some of the pain. And also speaking with others to know that I am not alone, to feel supported on this journey tends to help

    Sorry for going over 3 sentences,

    Gassho, Tomás
    Sat&LaH

  16. #16
    Thank you for sharing your experiences with pain, Seiko. This is something that I'm working with now in my life, too, but perhaps not to the same extent as others.

    A couple weeks ago I injured one (or more) of my intercostal muscles (the muscles between your ribs) and was in the most intense pain of my life for two weeks. Sleeping for the first week was nearly impossible. I went to a massage therapist to try to get some relief and the massage session was even more painful, but it did bring relief a few hours later. This experience gave me an appreciation for those who live with chronic pain. After just one week, I found I was physically and emotionally exhausted and yet there was still the rest of life to attend to.

    I also took up walking again now that the weather is nice. Until this weekend I didn't have proper walking shoes, so my calves and shins and feet were in intense pain each day that I went walking. What kept ringing in my mind were the words of Ram Dass who once said, "I love my pain" and I tried to embrace the pain as a friend and in doing so, I found the resistance I had to the pain disappeared and there was a kind of appreciation in its place. Pain reminds me that I am still alive, I'm still here.

    When pain appears, there's no running away from it; there's nowhere to go. So I may as well learn to sit with it, learn to love it, learn to listen to it as best I can.

    Gassho
    Kyōsen
    Sat|LAH
    橋川
    kyō (bridge) | sen (river)

  17. #17

    Pain as a motivator

    Sitting with pain is not the worst feeling I have ever had. I have adjusted to some degree.
    I wish you well in all your troubles. May you find happiness .
    Gassho
    sat/ lah
    Tai Shi


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Peaceful Poet, Tai Shi. Ubasoku; calm, supportive, limited to positive 優婆塞 台 婆

  18. #18
    I have had a new pain. Jundo please let me write more than the usual three lines. I need to write of a different pain than most people ever experience. This pain is dizziness which has lead to understanding a problem in my brain. About three weeks ago, I was speaking with Kyousui, a retired nurse, and I became very dizzy. Kyousui said, "Get to an ER now." My wife Marjorie did not believe me so I put Kyousui on the phone to speak with her and he told her to the closest ER now. We drove to Sanford Health about 16 miles from our home. There the hospital admitted me as a stroke victim and ran so many tests, I could not keep up. I was very dizzy with an upset stomach. With one of the final tests, technicians and nurses and the ER doctor found a dark spot in the Right Temporal Lobe of my brain. Dr. Kim, the imaging came to the ER and tol;d us that I was to be admitted to the hospital. Dr. Kim plased me on the Intensive Care Unit of the neurology ward. A nurse there is assigned to two patients, so the ward is truely intensive. Every need was taken care of, and every time I turned on the call light, the nurse was there imediatly. The next day, a Satuerday, Dr. Kime and his team took over. They wheeled me into a large machine which I know now was a camera. The strapped me securely to the flat surface and placed pillows under my knees and my head to suppurt my body from the severe arthritis I have. The strapped my hand, wrist, and arm so securely I could not move them. Then they straped my nech and head into place. Finally they strapped my body into place and told me not to move at all. Then a small tube was threaded thurough my wrist up my arm into my nech and though I could no feey it, into my brain. They then as I learned that night took pictures of part of my brain. Finally I realized how serious my condition was. They then threaded the tube back from my hear, throught the arterie in my neck, down my shoulder into my arm and pulled in out of my wrist. Though I had been awake, I learned later thatt I had been given a light sedative and nourishing fluids through my IV tube which ran into my arme wirth a secured needle. Then I waited, and my wife Marjorie waited with me. She said at 5:00 p.m. that she must go homr because she has night blindness. She left, touching my arn and said good night. It's very difficult to sleep in a hospital but abour 3:00 a.m. I dropped off to sleep. I know from experience nurses check on you all night, and every 10 or 15 minutes, a nurse would check on me. My wife returned the next day, and learned the next day that I had a stuicture in my brain, late in the evening, Sunday night, about 8:00 pm, Dr. Kim returned to discuss the fingings and show us the pictures of the Arterial Venus Malformation in my brain. The stricture was adout the size of a nickle with veins shooting everywhere into my brain. Dr Kim explained that the AVM was 2.2 cm in size, and 26 cm into my brain somewhat penatrating my white matter. We explained that in surgery there was a 65% chance of my survival and 35% chance of failure or even death of surgery. That night nurses made an appointment ffor September 29th, 2021, at 9:15. The next weekend I experienced at 4:00 a.m. the worst siezure I have ever known. At first as the siezure began, I yelled for my wife. She came and I froze, she began yelling and crying. I could sence thruogght my eyes and ears, but my hands were gripping the arm of the recliner, ansd I could not let go. Marjorie saus that mty mouth dropped, and my lip rolled forward. I remember only hearing her yell my name. As I roused, she called 911the ambulance arrieven and I was taken as a stroke victim to the Sanford ER/ There many tests were again conducted, and the stricture had not chaanged. I becan coming out of my siezure, and there was no chemical evidence of my siezure. However the, I was again admitted to the nerology ICU ward, Dr. Kim appearwwed only briefly and Marjorie and I were told to wait ffor the paliative ccare doctor. She walked into my room At about 2:15 and spent over an hour with us, but I felt she was only speaking tomy wife, not to me. She said that my advanced directive was the mostt complete she had evey seen including the directive that the Harvard Brai ans Tissue Center be contacted immediately upon deat to harveest my brain for medicial and scientific research. I have bipolar disorder an I am very intellegent with three advanced degrees, two beyond the MA, and Harrvard Brain Bank is extremly interested in my brain. The next day I was stunned.I had been told that it might be best to just leave the AVM alone and I might outlive the catistrophic event of AVM rupture and live a full and happy life. I decided to Wait to see what the surgeon D. Voum would have to say on the 29th. I waited, tryinmg to read. I read a number of poets including the great end of 20th Century Galway Kinnel who incorperated knowlege of God while being without God. In many ways Kinnel is a Zen poet. I read a great poem by the master Persian poet Rumi, and wonderful senssual persian poet Hafiz who has been collected into a volume The Gift, and with such beautiful sensual and youthful poetry, the besst of Hafiz remaining poetry. Much of Hafiz great body of poetry was destroyed by the Islamic Stats who claimed that his poetry violated the Koran. These three poets follow tthe youth of my mind. I am told by two doctors that I am in good shape to recover well from surggery. The pain I feel from this fight for life, and with zazen I surender with each breath. Literally hundredds of people are supporting my in every. The good friend and president of the local U.U. church has been there for me eveyday. My dear precious pearl Marjoriee, who objected to surgery at first, as she believed to live to an advanced stage of the tumor and my life, has since acccepted my wishes. The lead minister, Micheal, of Church of the Larger Fellowship has been there for me throughout, and I say with great admiration for each Priest of Soto Zen I have read of, and know Junddo, are sensitive apt people prclaiming the meldding of consciousness in Zen< Buddhaist, knowing of Buddha, aaaand my hope to contimue as Bodisattva in this world as I fel, and know the hope of the hereafter In Buddhist ideas, and reality that the body dies upon deatn but essence goes on in a peaceful universe as trout swimming to the sea, or birds flying into the air, so my essence shall be long into the night of eternal space POPULATED SMALL POCKETS OF ENERGY AND SPECKS, of matter, the essence of good as the Buddha taught in his benovelant Loving Kindness. Here in Treeleaf Zendo I have undertaken the precepts, and perhaps two paper books will I read right after my surgery. The Mind of Clover by Robert Aitken, and Living Sober, AA approved Literaature, and I may if I may read only a short partt of the Bible, The Book of John. I trust that Jesus known as a savior, has aid these essential words, " Love one another." and so I end this by saying God odf Hafiz and Judea be with me, and may I become fully a Bodhisatva in eyes of the Buddha, Tatagatha, Buddha, and live for my brothers and sisters. I am an Old man of 70 an have stamina in spite of ag and arthritis. Though my Cardiologist has in stalled Pacemaker, says my heart muscle is strong, I have only slight damage to my lungs, and my hands are not so deformed that I can no lo-nger do touch two finger typing. I am a complete whole man, I am unique, that I have reached the age of 70 yet have mental illness, I have accomolished much, and my Primary Doctor Allan funk said I may see improvement to my bipolar mind. Onve oxycigen is restored to my Right Temporal, I may see improvement in my mind. This is something the Buddha would wish for me. Let me [predict my age at death, 82, as the Buddha's long life.
    Gassho
    Sat/ lah
    Peaceful Poet, Tai Shi. Ubasoku; calm, supportive, limited to positive 優婆塞 台 婆

  19. #19
    Treeleaf Unsui Nengei's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Minnesota's Driftless Area
    Metta to you, Tai Shi, and to your family, extended family, and loved ones. May you all find peace with all that you are experiencing.

    Gassho,
    Nengei
    Sat today. LAH.

  20. #20
    Thank you for your teaching us, Tai Shi.

    Nine Bows, Jundo
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  21. #21
    Thank you for sharing Tai Shi. Much Metta to you and your family. It sounds like a harrowing experience but you seem to be handling it really well. I am grateful you have so much support around you as you work your way through this difficult ordeal. Please know that all of Treeleaf is holding you in their hearts.

    As Jundo says, Nine Bows.

    Gassho,

    Shinshi
    空道 心志 Kudo Shinshi
    I am just a priest-in-training, any resemblance between what I post and actual teachings is purely coincidental.
    E84I - JAJ

  22. #22
    Tai Shi

    Gassho
    Kyōsen
    Sat|LAH
    橋川
    kyō (bridge) | sen (river)

  23. #23
    Thank you for sharing your experiences and aspirations and what inspires you, Tai Shi. Much metta.

    Gassho,
    Onkai
    Sat/lah
    美道 Bidou Beautiful Way
    恩海 Onkai Merciful/Kind Ocean

    I have a lot to learn; take anything I say that sounds like teaching with a grain of salt.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •