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Thread: Attaining something in Zazen

  1. #1

    Attaining something in Zazen

    I wanted to rekindle the discussion on this topic after the video I posted yesterday, if that is okay. As most of you will know, Dogen asked himself this question too (paraphrasing): Why the need to practice if we are already Buddhas?

    The Buddha spent years going after different sorts of practices before he "just sat" under the Bodhi tree and "attained/recognized" awakening. Dogen travelled to China and spent years facing a wall before "dropping off body-mind". And yet, the instruction for Shikantaza is to just sit, with no goals other than just sitting.

    But here is where I would like the discussion to kick in, or at least to receive some feedback. The fact that one sits down and drops every single intention, with an attitude of full trust in the practice, doesn't necessarily contradict the overall goal of "attaining something". And by attaining, I do not mean to gain or lose something that we are not already. I point towards the recognition of a freedom that is already there, but that we do not "see", Buddha-nature.

    - If there is no intrinsic freedom that still needs to be "recognized", why sit?
    - Why did the Buddha and Dogen sit for long periods of time for many years?
    - Is it enough to sit 20-40 minutes a day in Zazen to discover who we truly are?
    - Should we not spend the time that we dedicate to other "less important activities", such as binge-watching Netflix, reading hundreds of books, etc. to full-hearted zazen?

    Practice-enlightenment is freedom itself, yet the major figures within this tradition seem to have realized/recognized this "in their being" after a lot of sitting.

    Gassho, Tomás
    Sat

  2. #2
    There are some treasures that can only be attained by radical dropping of all need and hunger to attain.

    This is so in a world in which people rise in the morning, needing to go here, run there, get away from this, grab more that, with a head filled with endless plans, judgements, measures and dreams. It is our sense of self, divided from a world of objects, which we run toward to clutch, or run from in fear. Some seek to turn meditation into just another tool or technique to grab some special prize or experience, not realizing that the most special prize and experience is the total peace and completion of freedom from all need to grab.

    Mountains do not do plan and measure to rest as mountains, stars do not do so to shine as stars. Buddha sat as the star shining, nothing lacking, nothing more to attain.

    One need not sit to recognize so, yet sitting as a mountain and shining within like a stars is a good way to realize and attain such radical non-attaining.

    Sitting for 20 or 40 minutes or hours or days is good, but one must truly sit with each moment of Zazen beyond all measure, each instant holding all time and timeless too. In sitting Zazen, there is nothing to measure, no points to gain, no before or after this moment of sitting. To realize that Zazen is never a matter of time, that there is nothing to add or take away, no measure or clock, is why we sit for some minutes each day.

    Gassho, Jundo

    SatTodayLAH
    Last edited by Jundo; 05-12-2021 at 07:16 AM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  3. #3
    How do you think Bodaishin, the essential to Zen way seeking mind differ from ordinary goal oriented mind?

    Gassho
    Sat

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Inshin View Post
    How do you think Bodaishin, the essential to Zen way seeking mind differ from ordinary goal oriented mind?

    Gassho
    Sat
    In Master Dogen's practice-enlightenment, this "Way Seeking Mind" keeps walking forward step by step, sitting Zazen minute by minute, avoiding to fall into excess desire, anger and violence, jealousy and other harmful actions choice by choice ... realizing that every moment in which we act wise like a Buddha is a Buddha's wisdom realized in this life ...

    ... yet also realizing that there is no place to go, nothing lacking, nothing to change, nothing to add or take away ...

    ... all true at once.

    The goal seeking mind only knows attaining, reaching, getting, possessing, dreaming of the next place to be. The Way Seeking Mind keeps moving forward, keeps working and living peacefully, yet nothing to attain. Like that.

    Sorry to run long.

    Gassho, J

    STLah
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    There are some treasures that can only be attained by radical dropping of all need and hunger to attain.

    This is so in a world in which people rise in the morning, needing to go here, run there, get away from this, grab more that, with a head filled with endless plans, judgements, measures and dreams. It is our sense of self, divided from a world of objects, which we run toward to clutch, or run from in fear. Some seek to turn meditation into just another tool or technique to grab some special prize or experience, not realizing that the most special prize and experience is the total peace and completion of freedom from all need to grab.

    Mountains do not do plan and measure to rest as mountains, stars do not do so to shine as stars. Buddha sat as the star shining, nothing lacking, nothing more to attain.

    One need not sit to recognize so, yet sitting as a mountain and shining within like a stars is a good way to realize and attain such radical non-attaining.

    Sitting for 20 or 40 minutes or hours or days is good, but one must truly sit with each moment of Zazen beyond all measure, each instant holding all time and timeless too. In sitting Zazen, there is nothing to measure, no points to gain, no before or after this moment of sitting. To realize that Zazen is never a matter of time, that there is nothing to add or take away, no measure or clock, is why we sit for some minutes each day.

    Gassho, Jundo

    SatTodayLAH
    That was a beautiful text Jundo, thank you for sharing. But I still can't grasp how one sits with such radical acceptance. It is in our human nature to want to run away from suffering, to find a solution, to fix this pain and misery. Mountains and stars aren't conscious nor suffer. I guess these questions can only be answered in experience and through sitting. I tend to get over intellectual, as you will have noticed. It was a way to cope in the past, and sometimes now.

    Gassho, Tomás
    Sat&LaH

  6. #6
    Sit with faith that there is nothing more needed or lacking, until one feels that nothing more is needed or lacking ... then nothing more is needed or lacking.

    Very easy.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomás Sard View Post
    That was a beautiful text Jundo, thank you for sharing. But I still can't grasp how one sits with such radical acceptance. It is in our human nature to want to run away from suffering, to find a solution, to fix this pain and misery. Mountains and stars aren't conscious nor suffer. I guess these questions can only be answered in experience and through sitting. I tend to get over intellectual, as you will have noticed. It was a way to cope in the past, and sometimes now.

    Gassho, Tomás
    Sat&LaH
    Pain is different than suffering. I don't think Jundo is saying "don't alleviate your pain" (because we're not masochists) and at the same time I think he is saying that sometimes it is good for people to swim against the current of hedonism and the hedonic treadmill and the like and that can create a certain kind of pain that is not suffering. It is blind hedonism and consumption, and the desire for more and more and non-acceptance for things we cannot change that creates suffering

    Gassho,
    Tom
    SatLah.
    “Do what’s hard to do when it is the right thing to do.”- Robert Sopalsky

  8. #8
    Mountains and stars aren't conscious nor suffer.
    I struggle at the moment with a different notion : that there are no mountains and stars, just consciousness

    Found this today and it made me laugh, good old Sawaki

    ZAZEN - SITTING IN MEDITATION

    What’s zazen good for? Absolutely nothing! This “good for nothing” has got to sink into your flesh and bones until you’re truly practicing what’s good for nothing. Until then, your zazen is really good for nothing.

    You say you want to become a better person by doing zazen. Zazen isn’t about learning how to be a person. Zazen is to stop being a person.

    Zazen is unsatisfying. Unsatisfying for whom? For the ordinary person. People are never satisfied.

    Isn’t it self-evident? How could that which is eternal and infinite ever satisfy human desires?

    Unsatisfying: simply practicing zazen.
    Unsatisfying: realizing zazen with this body.
    Unsatisfying: absorbing zazen into your flesh and blood.

    Being watched by zazen, cursed by zazen, blocked by zazen, dragged around by zazen, every day crying tears of blood – isn’t that the happiest form of life you can imagine?

    You say “When I do zazen, I get disturbing thoughts!” Foolish! The fact is that it’s only in zazen that you’re aware of your disturbing thoughts at all. When you dance around with your disturbing thoughts, you don’t notice them at all. When a mosquito bites you during zazen, you notice it right away. But when you’re dancing and a flea bites your balls, you don’t notice it at all.

    Don’t whine. Don’t stare into space. Just sit!

    - Kodo Sawaki, To You
    Gassho
    Sat

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Inshin View Post
    I struggle at the moment with a different notion : that there are no mountains and stars, just consciousness
    I feel like one of those old zen masters would make you climb up and down the mountains for hours on end and then ask you so: If there is only consciousness, why the hell are you so tired?!

    Gassho, Tomás
    Sat&LaH

  10. #10
    I think people get confused about what zazen is and isn’t, but Zazen itself is the means and the goal, and it’s what the masters and Buddha discovered and taught after many trials and much searching, so that now we don’t have to blindly search for.
    No particular thought, realization or understanding happening while sitting is of any use to the sitting, since they are neither good, nor bad, neither useful, nor useless.
    Whatever we obtain from zazen we carry into our daily activities, so we turn every action into a form of zazen, although it ends up being no different, sitting or standing, still or in motion, when we do things with the mind of zazen.

    SatToday lah
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Inshin View Post
    I struggle at the moment with a different notion : that there are no mountains and stars, just consciousness

    Found this today and it made me laugh, good old Sawaki

    Gassho
    Sat
    There is so much so much wisdom in Sawaki’s lessons. Yes they are entertaining and pithy but they are among the clearest statements and directions for this practice


    Tairin
    Sat today and lah

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomás Sard View Post
    I feel like one of those old zen masters would make you climb up and down the mountains for hours on end and then ask you so: If there is only consciousness, why the hell are you so tired?!


    Yes, no mountains, no you, no me ... and yet, up and down we go.

    Call this "emptiness" or "wholeness" or "Stanley" or "Apple Sauce" ... not so important. Maybe only "consciousness" or maybe only "apple sauce," whatever. You me and the mountain are just Apple Sauce.

    Shikantaza is like walking Buddha mountain looking for Buddha mountain. Some folks only want to get to the beautiful vista at the pinnacle, where all obstacles drop away and all can be seen in all directions. Some think of that as getting to the end of the journey. It is a wonderful spot. But some of us realize that every step of the way, from the foot of the mountain to great heights, up and down, even the not so pretty parts, are ALL Buddha Mountain, and amazing vistas without obstacles are found in ALL of it. Each step is its own unique arrival and "pinnacle." Thus, we keep walking, while sitting and resting sometimes.

    Gassho, J

    STLah
    Last edited by Jundo; 05-12-2021 at 09:11 PM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomás Sard View Post
    As most of you will know, Dogen asked himself this question too (paraphrasing): Why the need to practice if we are already Buddhas?
    I'm enjoying this discussion around this question. Thank you all. I imagine it is one that comes up many times, but also one that is good to keep discussing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    Sit with faith that there is nothing more needed or lacking, until one feels that nothing more is needed or lacking ... then nothing more is needed or lacking.

    Very easy.
    I find this idea of faith or trust to be helpful. As I've been sitting I notice my mind keeps striving to reach a point of seeing reality or to reach non-striving, and if I try to stop this I am only repeating the striving for non-striving... and then start trying to understand this as well, which is thinking...

    I feel that what helps me here is to gently remind myself to trust that all I need to do now is observe this (all of it, the striving and thinking included) along with everything else with the mirror mind. What's the point of this? This is where trust comes in, that I don't know yet but I don't need to try to understand it right now. Maybe I will know it through sitting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Inshin View Post
    You say “When I do zazen, I get disturbing thoughts!” Foolish! The fact is that it’s only in zazen that you’re aware of your disturbing thoughts at all. When you dance around with your disturbing thoughts, you don’t notice them at all. When a mosquito bites you during zazen, you notice it right away. But when you’re dancing and a flea bites your balls, you don’t notice it at all.
    I love this as well. Thank you. I shall make a note to look up more of Sawaki.

    Gassho,
    Charity
    sat

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post


    Yes, no mountains, no you, no me ... and yet, up and down we go.

    Call this "emptiness" or "wholeness" or "Stanley" or "Apple Sauce" ... not so important. Maybe only "consciousness" or maybe only "apple sauce," whatever. You me and the mountain are just Apple Sauce.

    Shikantaza is like walking Buddha mountain looking for Buddha mountain. Some folks only want to get to the beautiful vista at the pinnacle, where all obstacles drop away and all can be seen in all directions. Some think of that as getting to the end of the journey. It is a wonderful spot. But some of us realize that every step of the way, from the foot of the mountain to great heights, up and down, even the not so pretty parts, are ALL Buddha Mountain, and amazing vistas without obstacles are found in ALL of it. Each step is its own unique arrival and "pinnacle." Thus, we keep walking, while sitting and resting sometimes.

    Gassho, J

    STLah

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    Sit with faith that there is nothing more needed or lacking, until one feels that nothing more is needed or lacking ... then nothing more is needed or lacking.

    Very easy.
    I believe you told me this a few months ago. Just sitting is trusting life completely. I feel like I do not have much trust or faith in life in this moment. Always searching for some kind of "pointing" that liberates me from suffering. A form of spiritual materialism. Yet faith is jumping into "just this", trusting the voices from the masters of old and new that tell you that "just this" is enough. Deep bowing

    Gassho, Tomás
    Sat&LaH

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomás Sard View Post
    I feel like I do not have much trust or faith in life in this moment. Always searching for some kind of "pointing" that liberates me from suffering. A form of spiritual materialism.
    Every single one of us does this - that's why it's practice.

    Gassho

    Risho
    -stlah

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomás Sard View Post
    If there is no intrinsic freedom that still needs to be "recognized", why sit?
    The tougher question for me is if there is no rebirth, why sit? Yeah, sitting might have a positive impact on outlook and mood, but so do many practices and diversions. As well as number of medications. And if there is no rebirth, we all escape samsara when we die - whether we sit or not.

    So I admit my practice has largely died out since switching to Zen.


    Why did the Buddha and Dogen sit for long periods of time for many years?
    Buddha sat because he didn't believe in an intrinsic freedom, he believed in a path to liberation from samsara.

    Nagarjuna started the evolution from Buddha to Zen when he introduced emptiness, but it seems Buddha nature and intrinsic freedom really didn't enter the picture until Buddhism merged with Taoism. So thinking about the Buddha and intrinsic freedom is probably anarchronistic.

    I haven't studied enough Dogen to have an opinion on Dogen.


    Is it enough to sit 20-40 minutes a day in Zazen to discover who we truly are?
    Probably not?

    I remember hearing John Daido Loori speak about the question of time on the mat. He talked about the monastics there who sat 3 hours a day and did monthly Sesshin, and how you just aren't going to get the same results sitting a half hour a day and doing a Sesshin or two a year.

    On the other hand, I've heard Shinzen Young say that 20 minutes a day, plus some intensive retreats and a teacher, is enough.

    So the other side to my opening "probably not," is "Maybe?"


    - Should we not spend the time that we dedicate to other "less important activities", such as binge-watching Netflix, reading hundreds of books, etc. to full-hearted zazen?
    Depending on context.

    In the Pali Canon the Buddha lays out a hierarchy of activities, based on the goal of achieving liberation from rebirth.

    If one sits Zazen to attain/not-attain whatever we want to call what we attain/don't-attain from practicing Zen, then yes, it makes sense to devote more time to Zazen than to reading and Netflix.

    That said, I think it is important to remember that there is nothing fundamentally less important about reading or Netflix except relative to a system or goal. If one adopts a science-based view I would say other than some proof that MBSR reduces anxiety there is very little evidence for sitting. There is no spirit in our bodies, so no spiritual life. There is no room in a universe determined by the laws of physics for free will. There is no purpose or meaning intrinsic to the universe or to being human - only the purposes or meanings we give them. Which for most of us in the West means values we inherited (largely unexamined) from Christianity. We sit because it fits a Zen narrative we have adopted, not due to any evidence or intrinsic meaning of the activity. If that particular narrative reduces our suffering, increases contentment, gives meaning, etc. and one actually likes sitting more than Netflix, then sit. (Given the improbability of free will if one follows the logical consequences of the modern scientific worldview, one might not be choosing but choicelessly observing the laws of physics unfold when we sit or don't sit anyway.) If one finds it unhelpful or difficult to sit, books or Netflix or playing the piano or whatever moves one are all fine activities, too.

    If there is rebirth then the Noble Eightfold Path is of supreme importance. If the modern materialistic worldview is true, then sitting is one activity among many. Do it if it's your jam. Don't do it if it's not. It might be illusion that you are even making the choice anyway.

    Thoughtful questions! Thanks!

    Gassho, Jim
    ST/LaH

    Sent from my SM-T510 using Tapatalk
    No matter how much zazen we do, poor people do not become wealthy, and poverty does not become something easy to endure.
    Kōshō Uchiyama, Opening the Hand of Thought

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by JimInBC View Post
    The tougher question for me is if there is no rebirth, why sit? Yeah, sitting might have a positive impact on outlook and mood, but so do many practices and diversions. As well as number of medications. And if there is no rebirth, we all escape samsara when we die - whether we sit or not.

    So I admit my practice has largely died out since switching to Zen.
    Who said that there is no rebirth? One is reborn as all this world, each baby and blade of grass, which are our 10,000 other faces (as much as your left eye is your right eye on the left!). Our good or harmful acts have consequences which impact the world, not only our own present life, but the lives of sentient beings near and far, rippling onward, endlessly through time.

    If you are mainly interested in what this practice can do for YOUR PERSONAL rebirths, then that would be a selfish attitude, plus hopeless from a Buddhist point of view, as there is no "YOUR PERSONAL" beyond the little self! In our Bodhisattva Vow, our practice is never for ourself alone, but for rescue of all sentient beings everywhere, now or then, here and far. In fact, your fixation on your desires for "YOUR PERSONAL" is the root of all Dukkha! Though some folks practice for what "I" can get out of it, there is no "I" nor "not I" which can be gotten! There is never an "our self," and all is our self, True Self, No Self which is All Selves. The Buddha's realization under the Bodhi Tree: "I and all beings together realize enlightenment." Above and Below, All are the Honored One Alone.

    Buddha sat because he didn't believe in an intrinsic freedom, he believed in a path to liberation from samsara.
    Yes, we believe this too. Better said, we believe both.

    We are already liberated, always were and always will be, but most sentient being do not realize so. They bury this fact in greed, anger and divided thinking in ignorance. Thus, we must walk the path to realize so, acting in peace and gentleness in every step, embodying the Buddhist way.

    If someone thinks, "I am already liberated, thus I don't need to do anything," then they do not understand. If someone thinks that liberation is lifetimes away, and not in this immediate thought, word and act right here and now, and what one chooses to do with it for good or bad, then they do not understand.

    That said, I think it is important to remember that there is nothing fundamentally less important about reading or Netflix except relative to a system or goal.
    There may be a time to watch some Netflix, but there is also a time to sit Zazen, and times to put this Path into Practice in each moment.

    We believe in free will, thus we freely choose to sit. One sits, as the Buddha chose to sit under the Tree. One sits as the morning star shining, nothing lacking nor anything to add to this shining light.

    Gassho, J

    SatTodayLAH
    Last edited by Jundo; 05-17-2021 at 09:47 PM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    Who said that there is no rebirth? One is reborn as all this world, each baby and blade of grass, which are our 10,000 other faces (as much as your left eye is your right eye on the left!). Our good or harmful acts have consequences which impact the world, not only our own present life, but the lives of sentient beings near and far, rippling onward, endlessly through time.

    If you are mainly interested in what this practice can do for YOUR PERSONAL rebirths, then that would be a selfish attitude, plus hopeless from a Buddhist point of view, as there is no "YOUR PERSONAL" beyond the little self! In our Bodhisattva Vow, our practice is never for ourself alone, but for rescue of all sentient beings everywhere, now or then, here and far. In fact, your fixation on your desires for "YOUR PERSONAL" is the root of all Dukkha! Though some folks practice for what "I" can get out of it, there is no "I" nor "not I" which can be gotten! There is never an "our self," and all is our self, True Self, No Self which is All Selves. The Buddha's realization under the Bodhi Tree: "I and all beings together realize enlightenment." Above and Below, All are the Honored One Alone.



    Yes, we believe this too. Better said, we believe both.

    We are already liberated, always were and always will be, but most sentient being do not realize so. They bury this fact in greed, anger and divided thinking in ignorance. Thus, we must walk the path to realize so, acting in peace and gentleness in every step, embodying the Buddhist way.

    If someone thinks, "I am already liberated, thus I don't need to do anything," then they do not understand. If someone thinks that liberation is lifetimes away, and not in this immediate thought, word and act right here and now, and what one chooses to do with it for good or bad, then they do not understand.



    There may be a time to watch some Netflix, but there is also a time to sit Zazen, and times to put this Path into Practice in each moment.

    We believe in free will, thus we freely choose to sit. One sits, as the Buddha chose to sit under the Tree. One sits as the morning star shining, nothing lacking nor anything to add to this shining light.

    Gassho, J

    SatTodayLAH


    SatToday
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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by JimInBC View Post

    Is it enough to sit 20-40 minutes a day in Zazen to discover who we truly are?
    Probably not?

    I remember hearing John Daido Loori speak about the question of time on the mat. He talked about the monastics there who sat 3 hours a day and did monthly Sesshin, and how you just aren't going to get the same results sitting a half hour a day and doing a Sesshin or two a year.

    On the other hand, I've heard Shinzen Young say that 20 minutes a day, plus some intensive retreats and a teacher, is enough.

    So the other side to my opening "probably not," is "Maybe?"
    One can be goal oriented in practice, reaching for special states and pushing hard, all to realize in the end that there was no place to go not always here and all around.

    Sometimes we sit long, sometimes we sit short ... but ALWAYS sit beyond measure, time, with no points to rack up. Truly, each moment of Zazen is timeless, and holds all time in each instant. Do not think "before" or "after," for there is no before or after this very moment, right now, when we sit Zazen. There is no goal to attain, and the attaining of such is liberation.

    Thus, one sits each day; sometimes we sit long and sometimes short.

    Gassho, J

    STLah
    Last edited by Jundo; 05-18-2021 at 12:56 AM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  21. #21
    I don't attain special or non-special. I don't stain at all. That's not the same and it is the same thing over and over again I attain nothing like something and nothing. Those things are going to not get anything. Language doesn't mean I guess or I don't guess.Because it's not languages but sitting just sitting just noticed nothing special but just sit. Let's sit
    Gassho
    sat/ lah
    Tai Shi
    "Nothing is so beautiful as spring--/ When weeds in wheels, shoot long and lovely and lush: Thrush eggs look little low heavens, and thrush/ Through the echoing timber does not rise and wring/ The ear it strikes like lightening to hear him sing;.." Hopkins

  22. #22
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  23. #23
    PS - Someone else on another site just asked: "What to do when sitting seems pointless?"

    I advise: TRUST, with total unvoiced FAITH deep in the marrow of the bones, that THIS VERY SITTING is the fulfillment of anything and everything ever to be desired or had in life, the one place to be, the only act to do in all the universe in this very moment of sitting, with sitting the pinnacle of the mountain and the arrival at the goal in sitting itself, one's sitting sat as all Buddhas and Ancestors sitting with one's very ass! That should help.
    Last edited by Jundo; 05-19-2021 at 12:14 AM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    PS - Someone else on another site just asked: "Ahat to do when sitting seems pointless?"

    I advise: TRUST, with total unvoiced FAITH deep in the marrow of the bones, that THIS VERY SITTING is the fulfillment of anything and everything ever to be desired or had in life, the one place to be, the only act to do in all the universe in this very moment of sitting, with sitting the pinnacle of the mountain and the arrival at the goal in sitting itself, one's sitting sat as all Buddhas and Ancestors sitting with one's very ass! That should help.
    Gassho2
    meian st lh

    Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
    迷安 - Mei An - Wandering At Rest

  25. #25
    Sitting and meditation have made me the gentle soul I am happy today and getting along with my wife which I fought for years. Now she helps me with breathe when I am in horror pain. And we have found out who we are together. She wearable a peace Tee Shirt and I call it her Buddha shirt and we breathe together and play Pokémon go.
    Gassho
    sat/ lah
    Tai Shi


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    "Nothing is so beautiful as spring--/ When weeds in wheels, shoot long and lovely and lush: Thrush eggs look little low heavens, and thrush/ Through the echoing timber does not rise and wring/ The ear it strikes like lightening to hear him sing;.." Hopkins

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Tai Shi View Post
    I don't attain special or non-special. I don't stain at all.
    Gassho
    sat/ lah
    Tai Shi
    I'm not sure if you meant to write "attain" rather than "stain" but that sentence just came out perfectly and it summarises one of my motivations in practice : not to stain the original nature with "me" "mine" "I". Not to stain Zazen with clinging to ideas of what it should be like, just sit and be who I really am.

    Gassho
    Sat

  27. #27
    Maybe the only thing to emphasize to strive for and to attain is to leave the world a better place?

    Gassho,
    Tom

    SatLah
    “Do what’s hard to do when it is the right thing to do.”- Robert Sopalsky

  28. #28
    I this Shikantaza is only "meditation" I do. Yet I know it is just sitting, not meditation, and just begging less, born of my body, mouth and mind, which I stop. Today I began Tonglen practice not doing anything, Shikantaza just sitting, nothing for myself not self, then take in I have sat for nothing, just sit. Now others, I'm different, benefactor, one who is not benefactor, community, universe. Then a little different I reach for noting in myself.
    Gassho
    sat/ lah
    Tai Shi
    Last edited by Tai Shi; 05-30-2021 at 07:54 PM. Reason: complete ideas
    "Nothing is so beautiful as spring--/ When weeds in wheels, shoot long and lovely and lush: Thrush eggs look little low heavens, and thrush/ Through the echoing timber does not rise and wring/ The ear it strikes like lightening to hear him sing;.." Hopkins

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