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Thread: Zazen and anxiety : should i keep on practicing ?

  1. #1

    Zazen and anxiety : should i keep on practicing ?

    Hi girls and guys !

    First : disclaimer : i'm seeing a professional therapist to work on my anxiety, and i'm following her advice about medication, etc. ; therapy sometimes is hard and stirs up some strong emotions. I practiced zazen daily for the last 8 years, without too many problems (i started during a rough anxiety moment). I don't have a sangha nor a teacher near me to ask the questions to directly, so i'm doing it here.

    I wonder if i should keep on practicing zazen, because sometime it is not a very good experience. What happens during zazen is that sometimes (not all the time - there are also wonderful and peaceful zazens from time to time which make me a ton of good) i begin to feel like i'm about to disappear - like i can't find where or who i am, and i'm like "OH CRAP I DONT EXIST AND I'M ABOUT TO DISAPPEAR" (haha, sounds so stupid when i write it)- and it makes me more anxious. Writing this, i realize that maybe i'm not practicing correctly : i think in zazen you are not supposed to try to look for things or to understand things but just let things do their stuff. But somehow i'm looking for peace and stability and can't find it...

    As you maybe know, when you are anxious for a long period of times, it can make things feel strange, including your own sense of self (it's called derealization or depersonalization, which are not dangerous but impressive). I don't know if this is what i'm feeling and i know it's not dangerous (i felt it in the past, plus i read a lot about the subject) but it makes me more anxious to think that zazen may be increasing anxiety and derealization and depersonalisation. Classic : being anxious about being anxious...

    Thing is, i don't want to quit practicing ; it's been part of my life for a long time and i would really feel like a failure if i dropped the practice... Plus i also want to face my fears head on, i feel this determination to go to the roots of it even if i shall die trying, Buddha style baby, but i don't know if it's really a good approach.

    After those "difficult" sessions, i just get up and keep on with my life and nothing really bad happens, except that i'm scared of the next zazen because i feel it will be difficult again... I already dropped the time from 30 mins to 15 mins, and i tend to flee the cushion (still practicing daily, but only once a day when it was twice before this damn anxiety came back knocking at my door).

    Could you please tell me if i'm in a real danger or if it's just all in my mind ? Should i continue or should i stop for a while ? I would like to continue, could you give me any tips to keep sitting without freaking out ?

    Gassho and sorry for running long,

    Uggy,

    Sat today,
    Lah
    Last edited by Ugrok; 03-25-2021 at 09:54 AM.

  2. #2
    Uggy, when you think or ďpracticingĒ think of practicing the law or medicine, not of practice the way an athlete trains for some marathon. When youíre on the zafu you just sit, being there, seeing but not looking, hearing but not listening, feeling your body, breathing, being mindfulness itself. There is no pressure in that and nothing to achieve. If thoughts arise, let them pass, like the shadow of clouds that obscure and brighten the room during the day. Donít ďturn aroundĒ to find the cloud or try to push it away. That is, donít engage with the thoughts, having inner discourse and elaborating them, debating them and analyzing them internally. When they pop up, you just go back to seeing, hearing, breathing and just being where you are. Breathe in, out, back straight, head straight, chin down, hands in the mudra... continue.

    SatToday (I went over 3 sentences, sorry!!!)
    Bion
    美音

    -------------------------
    Join me on Insight Timer
    Help me feed those in need by joining my Share The Meal team HERE

  3. #3
    If it is too much, you should stop. It may not be for you. Please talk with your mental health professional and decide.

    Perhaps there is some way to ease the experience, for example, greatly shortening the time even more. If not, and if your psychologist concurs, then best to stop sitting. We have discussed doing that before, however, and not pressing so hard. However, if it is still a problem, then maybe it is just not for you. Find some other path, for example, nice walks in nature, sports or the like, that do not have such negative feelings.

    It is all a good path, so swimming or walking is a good swimming or walking the path too.

    Gassho, Jundo

    STLah
    Last edited by Jundo; 03-25-2021 at 11:25 AM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  4. #4
    Thing is i practiced during all those years with pleasure, most of the time ! So it's hard for me to say or hear that it might "not be for me", it helped me a lot in the past...

  5. #5
    Patient:

    When I raise my arm like this it hurts.

    Doctor:

    Don't raise your arm like this then.




    Gassho, Jishin, __/stlah\__

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Ugrok View Post
    Thing is i practiced during all those years with pleasure, most of the time ! So it's hard for me to say or hear that it might "not be for me", it helped me a lot in the past...
    Then stick with it. You have to decide.

    It is not meant to cause long term crisis.

    Gassho, Jundo

    STLah
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  7. #7
    Well, i know it is not the cause of the crisis i'm going through, since, as i said, i practiced during years and years without it causing a crisis. It's just that since nowadays i'm anxious most of the time, well, the content of my zazen is anxious as well. My question is : should i quit the practice because it is sometimes painful, or should i persevere... I know why i practice : i want to stop suffering, that's why i started ; what i don't know is if, to end suffering, i should confront it on the cushion, or flee it. That's what is making me hesitate. And since anxiety is mostly "fear of fear", i don't know if i can take a rational decision, that's why i asked. Is practice supposed to always be easy and peaceful ? If it's not easy and peaceful, when do we stop ?

    But you're right, i think i have to take my own decision rather than asking for others to take care of me.

    Thanks for the teaching, and for allowing me to see more clearly about my motivations, fears and needs.

    Gassho,

    Uggy,
    Sat today

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Ugrok View Post
    Well, i know it is not the cause of the crisis i'm going through, since, as i said, i practiced during years and years without it causing a crisis. It's just that since nowadays i'm anxious most of the time, well, the content of my zazen is anxious as well. My question is : should i quit the practice because it is sometimes painful, or should i persevere... I know why i practice : i want to stop suffering, that's why i started ; what i don't know is if, to end suffering, i should confront it on the cushion, or flee it. That's what is making me hesitate. And since anxiety is mostly "fear of fear", i don't know if i can take a rational decision, that's why i asked. Is practice supposed to always be easy and peaceful ? If it's not easy and peaceful, when do we stop ?

    But you're right, i think i have to take my own decision rather than asking for others to take care of me.

    Thanks for the teaching, and for allowing me to see more clearly about my motivations, fears and needs.

    Gassho,

    Uggy,
    Sat today
    I think one thing to keep in mind with things like anxiety is to be careful about thinking of it as "confronting them" because then your sitting kind of becomes a battle (as opposed to sitting with what is). You might find Jon Kabat Zinn's books interesting as they specifically deal with meditation/treating anxiety/stress. Hopefully you have some good support structures in place though, and as always if you ever want to talk feel free to reach out


    Evan,
    Sat today, lah
    Just going through life one day at a time!

  9. #9
    Thanks gaurdianaq, you're right about the battling making it worse, i should not have used the word "Confront". In fact it's Kabat Zinn's books that brought me to zazen in the first place, maybe i should read them again !

    Gassho,

    Uggy,

    Sat today

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Ugrok View Post
    Well, i know it is not the cause of the crisis i'm going through, since, as i said, i practiced during years and years without it causing a crisis. It's just that since nowadays i'm anxious most of the time, well, the content of my zazen is anxious as well. My question is : should i quit the practice because it is sometimes painful, or should i persevere... I know why i practice : i want to stop suffering, that's why i started ; what i don't know is if, to end suffering, i should confront it on the cushion, or flee it. That's what is making me hesitate. And since anxiety is mostly "fear of fear", i don't know if i can take a rational decision, that's why i asked. Is practice supposed to always be easy and peaceful ? If it's not easy and peaceful, when do we stop ?

    But you're right, i think i have to take my own decision rather than asking for others to take care of me.

    Thanks for the teaching, and for allowing me to see more clearly about my motivations, fears and needs.

    Gassho,

    Uggy,
    Sat today
    Hi Uggy,

    It depends what you think that you can handle, and if it feels like an issue that will correct itself. You are the best judge, together with your counselor. If it is more than you feel that you can handle, then stop. If it is just a minor discomfort that you think is temporary, then keep going.

    Gassho, Jundo

    STLah
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  11. #11
    Hey Uggy,

    I've had panic disorder and PTSD since I was a child... one thing that my therapists and self-experience has taught me is that when you begin looking at experiences in a fearful manner, it's not the experience itself that's the issue, it's your own fear of feeling afraid/discomfort, as you mentioned when you said "fear of fear" and "..except that i'm scared of the next zazen because i feel it will be difficult again."

    On one hand, your experiences and feelings are not dangerous, you're not losing your mind, you won't disintegrate into nothingness — on the other, you're the only one that can determine, with the help of your doctors, if it's a good thing for you to face and deal with the experiences you feel during sitting. I've had the same feelings you had, derealization and depersonalization can be frightening and off-putting (yet ultimately harmless). My doctors have all said when you reach the point of those, your brain is trying to actively slow things down for you because you're overwhelmed with stress, anxiety, etc. Forcing yourself to face these sensations right now might not be the best thing, and adding stress by worrying about how things were different eight years ago isn't helping.

    Jundo said it best, though: "You are the best judge, together with your counselor. If it is more than you feel that you can handle, then stop. If it is just a minor discomfort that you think is temporary, then keep going."

    Apologies for going over 3 sentences, I hope you find relief soon,

    Gassho,
    Koushi
    STLaH
    広 Kou (Vast)
    髭 Shi (Beard)

  12. #12
    My thought, as someone with absolutely no qualifications as a mental health professional nor a zen professional, is that if you have to ask the question, then that's already part of the answer. There's nothing wrong with taking a break for a while to see what happens. If you can, walk for a half hour instead of sitting and see if that helps.

    Gassho,

    Ryūmon

    sat
    -----

    流文

    I know nothing.

  13. #13
    hey Uggy,

    I am not a professional in any sense of the word, and i struggle with anxiety myself, but i can offer some secondhand advice i got from a viewer on my stream once. i will try to quote him here:

    using meditation i was able to unpick my triggers for anxiety. i learned that anxiety is caused by the subcontious mind believing that certain emotions are not safe to be expressed. whenever this emotion surfaces the subcontious mind jumps in and represses it. we dont notice this occurring because it is unconscious. by observing anxiety in meditation i was able to see this process occuring. by finding the beliefs and challenging them i was able to reprogram my mind, and my anxiety which had been ruining my life for 10 years was cured.
    (hey, i did it!)
    I dont claim that the same can happen for you, and i'm still not there myself, but it obviously worked for him, so it may be some encouragement to know that it can be done. i would say sit with it and try to find what emotions youre supressing to cause the feedback loop that is anxiety, but if its too much right now id also suggest taking it easy and taking a hiatus on it, if you feel its necessary. its really up to you to decide whats best for you; that is your responsibility and yours alone. much metta to you in the meantime, and i hope you figure this out.

    sorry for running on long.

    Gassho, John
    ST/LAH

  14. #14
    Well, i don't understand shit about myself... During today's zazen, i just let it all go. I let myself feel completely lost, i let myself feel completely scared, i said "okay, disappear if you must", and the result was... peace... What a beautiful mystery we are... I'm going to take it easy, slow it down a bit, and we'll see how it goes.

    Gassho,

    Uggy,
    Sat today

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Ugrok View Post
    Well, i don't understand shit about myself... During today's zazen, i just let it all go. I let myself feel completely lost, i let myself feel completely scared, i said "okay, disappear if you must", and the result was... peace... What a beautiful mystery we are... I'm going to take it easy, slow it down a bit, and we'll see how it goes.

    Gassho,

    Uggy,
    Sat today
    When I used to do roller coasters (honestly, I still don't like them ), I would get so stressed that I tightened my abdominal muscles and literally could not breathe on the drops! After practicing Zazen some time, I intentionally relaxed the muscles and my body/mind in general, ignoring thoughts of "down" and "up." I let the experience be the experience, including my resistance. It became an experience of stillness even in motion, and no particular stress.

    Leaning in to the stress, just as you describe, "letting it all go," sounds much the same.

    Jishin told a joke:

    Patient:

    When I raise my arm like this it hurts.

    Doctor:

    Don't raise your arm like this then.
    There is a mathematical corollary: If you do something, and it feels good, peaceful and right ... DO THAT!

    Like my roller coasters, I still have to deal with my fear any time I get on one, even today. I have not ridden one in several years. However, I am sure that, if I vowed to get on 100 roller coasters, after a few, if I kept doing what I said, I would be over my fear as I would quickly become used to letting the fear go. So, keep doing what you did and see if it solves the problem. Even if you don't always feel fearless all the time, I bet you learn to find that inner switch to let the fear go.

    Sorry to run long.

    Gassho, J

    STLah
    Last edited by Jundo; 03-26-2021 at 10:56 PM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  16. #16
    I take the words of the ‘Hsin Hsin Ming’ of Seng Ts’an, the third Chinese patriarch of Zen to heart whenever I feel an emotion I don’t “like” such as anxiety: “To set up what you like against what you dislike [and vice versa] is the disease of the mind.”

    In Jundo’s second beginner’s talk he talks about mirror mind, letting everything become reflected and pass. I believe that is what is happening when the mind calms down: it no longer stacks up “what if’s” or “should be’s” and wishful thinking against uncomfortable thoughts and emotions that arise.

    It is like a mirror but also like watching a chess match: there are the black and white pieces, you ARE cheering for one side but since you are not playing in the game, then you are not so invested. I also believe everyone is wiser than they think and already know these things, if not on an intellectual level.

    This short video might be illuminating and helpful (it was for me):



    A few more than three, I apologize.

    PS One more thing I’d like to add is, I’m not an expert in anything, contact a doctor. (I really both like and don’t like legalese like that because we don’t show enough reverence for experts, AND we sometimes put too much faith in them and not enough accountability in ourselves, to paraphrase a quote I’ve heard: “If you don’t have faith in yourself, not even the Buddha can help you.”) It may be helpful to think of one of the benifits (although we don’t practice for benefits) of Zazen to be like exposure therapy, the most empirically testable form of therapy:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exposure_therapy

    Gassho,
    Tom

    Sat/Lah
    Last edited by StoBird; 03-27-2021 at 01:16 AM.

  17. #17
    Uggy, im very happy to hear that todays sit went well ive found that much of the practice is about this letting go that you described. there is definitely a sense of peace in doing so. many bows and blessings to you. sorry for going slightly over the 3 sentences.

    Gassho, John
    ST/LAH

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by StoBird View Post
    I take the words of the ‘Hsin Hsin Ming’ of Seng Ts’an, the third Chinese patriarch of Zen to heart whenever I feel an emotion I don’t “like” such as anxiety: “To set up what you like against what you dislike [and vice versa] is the disease of the mind.”

    In Jundo’s second beginner’s talk he talks about mirror mind, letting everything become reflected and pass. I believe that is what is happening when the mind calms down: it no longer stacks up “what if’s” or “should be’s” and wishful thinking against uncomfortable thoughts and emotions that arise.

    It is like a mirror but also like watching a chess match: there are the black and white pieces, you ARE cheering for one side but since you are not playing in the game, then you are not so invested. I also believe everyone is wiser than they think and already know these things, if not on an intellectual level.

    This short video might be illuminating and helpful (it was for me):



    A few more than three, I apologize.

    PS One more thing I’d like to add is, I’m not an expert in anything, contact a doctor. (I really both like and don’t like legalese like that because we don’t show enough reverence for experts, AND we sometimes put too much faith in them and not enough accountability in ourselves, to paraphrase a quote I’ve heard: “If you don’t have faith in yourself, not even the Buddha can help you.”) It may be helpful to think of one of the benifits (although we don’t practice for benefits) of Zazen to be like exposure therapy, the most empirically testable form of therapy:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exposure_therapy

    Gassho,
    Tom

    Sat/Lah
    I love this video!! Arrr, Demons be below!

    There can be one very real, tangible, immediate benefit of sitting with anxiety (Even though we don't sit to gain anything!) I don't know why it has taken this long for it to really sink in, because this Sangha is such a big part of my life, but... the more I am in a really vulnerable, or sometimes even downright painful mental place, the more I feel deeply connected to the rest of humanity and all our existential nakedness. We all have those demons but walk around pretending we don't! So Uggy, I am sorry you sit with anxiety, and everyone else that does here too, but at least we are sitting completely together with the worries, fears, what-if's. So while you are sitting please remember we all care about you, are sitting with you, and are here for you as fellow demon-wrangler ship captains.

    Gassho,
    Jakuden
    SatToday/LAH
    清 道 寂田
    SEIDO JAKUDEN
    I am a novice priest. Any resemblance my posts may have to actual teachings about the Dharma, living or dead, is purely coincidental (and just my attempt to be helpful).

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Jakuden View Post
    ... I am sorry you sit with anxiety, and everyone else that does here too, but at least we are sitting completely together with the worries, fears, what-if's. So while you are sitting please remember we all care about you, are sitting with you, and are here for you as fellow demon-wrangler ship captains.


    Kevin
    STLaH

  20. #20

  21. #21
    Jundo has a great teaching on Gratitude. I canít find the link; if anyone can post it Iíd like to read it again.

    Also Checkout this latest podcast on gratitude: https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/...9-8dbc75743c5b

    The reason I thought of gratitude is that it is good medicine for me when Iím down, anxious etc; also I am not a dr, I only play one on the internet lol

    I think the bodhisattva path takes courage; normally we come into things to get something; I specifically came into Zen practice to get away from problems. But real practice happens (and none of this is my original thought lol) when we drop the likes and dislikes (as Tom pointed out). When something comes up that I like Iím grateful, but when something comes up I donít like also be grateful.

    I think thatís why in the Heart Sutra it says Bodhisattvas are fearless because we turn into it; if we do not face our dislikes we are missing out on the majority of our life, and often times what we donít like absolutely transforms us when we drop our resistance. But itís more: a bodhisattva not only takes a generally harder path by experiencing discomfort intentionally (eg giving things up in ango) but works to help other people too. The bodhisattva is the opposite of someone who shuts out the world when they have had too much; a bodhisattva never quits.

    In Jundoís talk in this past zazenkai he talks about how the universe has this openness or light shining through, but we only notice it when we drop our notion of open and closed or on and off. Think about wverything that had to hapoen for me to be here or you to be here; itís amazing. I think zazen lets us learn how to let the universe in, and we realize this real fundamental goodness of it all.

    Jukai is sort of like wedding vows. To me when I vow it binds me to that thing so that I know in my heart of hearts I have a responsibikity to fulfill it. Vow has a powerful resonance to humans which is why it is important. I think leaving practice for a while (which I have done) is a necessary part of it all, and having that vow, that seed planted; itís like a beacon that always calls you home.

    Iím not saying you should stop practice; in the end you canít hahaha I mean like Jundo said you have to decide.

    So my point is that if this is important to you, you sonetimes have to face and be completely with whst makes you uncomfortable; just know that you are not alone as Jakuden said; we are all in this together.

    gassho

    risho
    -stlah

    apologies for going over and typos(I am on my phone lol)
    Last edited by Risho; 03-27-2021 at 04:01 PM.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Risho View Post
    Jundo has a great teaching on Gratitude. I can’t find the link; if anyone can post it I’d like to read it again.
    I am grateful that this resonates with you. Is it the one?

    gratitude & Great Gratitude
    https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/show...reat-Gratitude

    Gassho, J

    STLah
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  23. #23
    thats the one! thank you

    gassho

    rish
    -stlah

  24. #24
    Risho.


    Tairin
    Sat today and lah
    泰林 - Tai Rin - Peaceful Woods

  25. #25
    I too suffer from Anxiety disorder and PTSD stemming from my years as an EMT/Firefighter. Zazen has been a challenge during the days when I have ¬ďissues¬Ē. My troubles are like a slide show when I have them, a repetition of the worst things I have been through, with many faces that emerge. When this happens sitting, or prior to sitting, I know that breath focus is the only thing that turns the slide projector off. I never make it past a 5 count (in cycles) before starting over, but usually after what seems like a few minutes I am able to stop the slides and then, eventually, the projector itself turns off. Zazen is honestly the only thing that has helped. I have been through the medications, drinking, drugs...... all they did was put a band aid on the hemorrhage, Zazen has been the surgery and the therapy for my issues. For me, this group has been the Nurse handing me, the Doctor, the tools and knowledge to perform the surgery.

    Longer than 3, apologies.

    Gassho,

    Jarrad

    Sat Today

  26. #26
    仁道 生開 - Jindo Shokai "Open to life in a benevolent way"
    May we all grow together in our knowledge of the Dharma

  27. #27
    I have bipolar disorder and anxiety disorder. I also suffer from Ankylosing Spondylitis. I was born with a gifted mind. I have developed in Poetry, other learning, but none of this did any good. Zazen does not do everything. I practice other forms and I pray and take non-narcotic drugs, and a small amount of one narcotic. I do what Marjorie, Dr Allan Funk say and I feel better. I try to do what my therapist and Jundo say and that helps. Nothing will ever do everything, but today I feel pretty good. I do my two yr 5th stp from my 12th stps today and I will be filled more and more with love as I work through stp 9. That's what really helps, the 12 steps.
    Gassho
    sat/ lah
    Tai Shi
    Last edited by Tai Shi; 04-10-2021 at 03:07 PM. Reason: Way too much, cut to the chase.
    "Nothing is so beautiful as spring--/ When weeds in wheels, shoot long and lovely and lush: Thrush eggs look little low heavens, and thrush/ Through the echoing timber does not rise and wring/ The ear it strikes like lightening to hear him sing;.." Hopkins

  28. #28
    Are we still writing here? I said way to much. I do what Marjorie and Dr Allan Funk say and I feel better. I try to do what others say, and today and most days I feel pretty good. Today I do step 5 ot the twelve steps and as I work steps 1 through 12 I will be filled with love. The 12 steps really help. I take my meds as I am told. Zazen helps, as do other forms. I have gotten better for 10 years as I practice Buddhism. Sorry the other stuff was way too much.
    Gassho
    sat/ lah
    Tai Shi
    "Nothing is so beautiful as spring--/ When weeds in wheels, shoot long and lovely and lush: Thrush eggs look little low heavens, and thrush/ Through the echoing timber does not rise and wring/ The ear it strikes like lightening to hear him sing;.." Hopkins

  29. #29
    Hope you are doing (relatively) well. These are one of the best tips I ever heard/read:

    Video (2:51 min long):


    Blog (3 parts):
    https://www.headspace.com/blog/2014/...-with-anxiety/

    And as paradoxically as this may sound, anxiety itself is not bad - it is 'just' part of being human. It is only when we create a storyline around it and/or push it away that it becomes 'a problem'.


    Warm wishes / All the best Ugrok,

    Matt

  30. #30
    Hey guys,

    Thanks for the messages and the advices. I'm doing "okayish"; started practicing yoga, does a ton of good, and still practicing zazen, trying to not get trapped by my fears. Back to the breathe and the posture, again and again. I also saw some important things i think. I now understand that when i hate feeling anxious, it's myself that i hate ; i spend too much time fighting ! The part of me that is anxious does not need to be hated, it needs to be treated gently and with care. I'm beginning to see that in fact i'm not very nice with my emotions and myself, and that is some stuff i need to work on.

    Gassho,

    Uggy,
    Sat today

  31. #31
    Nice self lesson, Uggy

    Gassho J

    stlah
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  32. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Ugrok View Post
    Hey guys,

    Thanks for the messages and the advices. I'm doing "okayish"; started practicing yoga, does a ton of good, and still practicing zazen, trying to not get trapped by my fears. Back to the breathe and the posture, again and again. I also saw some important things i think. I now understand that when i hate feeling anxious, it's myself that i hate ; i spend too much time fighting ! The part of me that is anxious does not need to be hated, it needs to be treated gently and with care. I'm beginning to see that in fact i'm not very nice with my emotions and myself, and that is some stuff i need to work on.

    Gassho,

    Uggy,
    Sat today
    Glad to hear that you're doing better. When I was younger, I often had bouts of anxiety. With practice, realizing that my thoughts are part of me but do not make up the entirety of what "I am" helped. A hand is part of your body but your body isn't just the hand. It's the natural function of thoughts to drift into view and drift away like clouds. We must remember not to cling to them and obsess.
    I'm not expert or doctor but it is what has helped me in the past


    Gassho, John.
    ST/LAH
    Last edited by Synjin; 04-23-2021 at 08:54 PM.
    "If youíre not sure, donít act. Once you act, you wander through birth and death and regret" -Bodhidharma Bloodstream Sermon

    "Frog is a good example of our practice ówhen a frog sits he sits. He becomes a frog, Zen becomes Zen." -Suzuki

  33. #33
    Been away from the forums but i still wear my treeleaf T shirt lol
    Being with nature, exercise and alone time are great ways to reconnect with your true self. Anxiety is like a split in your being, a separation dis-ease. The awe and wonder of nature is a great unifier. You donít have to do anything or be anything. Forget everything the society has taught you and just relax , let go and just enjoy your beingness
    🙏💜
    Sat lah

  34. #34
    Rich!

    Gassho, Jundo

    STLah
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  35. #35
    Yeah, but sometimes it is hard to enjoy your beingness, when it seems all your being sends you only fear...

    Yet, sometimes i have this deep feeling of being glad to be able to feel like crap. I don't know, it's really strange ; but sometimes i'm like "okay, you really feel like shit, confused, not knowing what to do, who you are, feeling lonely and stuck in your feelings, a bit desperate... What a great luck and experience to be alive and be able to feel all this !"

    But i'd rather feel good, of course.

    Gassho,

    Uggy,
    Sat today

  36. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Rich View Post
    Been away from the forums but i still wear my treeleaf T shirt lol
    Being with nature, exercise and alone time are great ways to reconnect with your true self. Anxiety is like a split in your being, a separation dis-ease. The awe and wonder of nature is a great unifier. You don’t have to do anything or be anything. Forget everything the society has taught you and just relax , let go and just enjoy your beingness
    ����
    Sat lah
    This is great advice!


    Tairin
    Sat today and lah
    泰林 - Tai Rin - Peaceful Woods

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