How does Zazen feel?

[Shonin]

Kind of an odd question. But lately I have been noticing that when I hold awareness in my body I feel a gentle warmth and happiness while sitting zazen. Like someone poured sunshine which spreads through the whole of my body lol. Is this normal? Out of old habit I tend to keep my tongue touching the roof of my mouth behind my teeth( some say this is proper but i couldn't say if that's for shikantaza or not). Just wondering if others experience this. Any input welcome.

Dave
SAT/LAH

[Inshin]

I also keep my tongue like this.
Meditative joy is something natural that arises, and from my understanding cultivating joyful mind without attachment is important in our practice . As long as we don't make it the goal of zazen, "I sit to experience that bliss" because that desire can be a trap.

Gassho
Sat

[Tomás ESP]

From my own experience, what tends to generate this feeling of bliss is awareness itself. It is like a fountain of immeasurable bliss. But it comes with a catch. You can easily become attached to that feeling. There are traditions that seek this feeling, but I feel like that isn't the case in this tradition. The Buddha was searching for peace beyond conditioned feelings.

Gassho, Tomás
Sat&LaH

[Horin]

I think it's right to sit in a manner, that's not too tense nor too loose . So we can find a physical balance. From the "inner" feeling, it's in my opinion normal to feel sometimes "warm", like sunshine, sometimes "blissy" but also sometimes tense, impatient, struggling with inner phenomenons like thinking or dreaming... So the inner attitude of zazen doesn't feel in a certain way, it takes the form of the conditions and we surrender to these conditions, melting with them through acceptance, going beyond the conditions and allow to feel good, bad, cozy, tense or whatever during zazen.
But that's just my take on it (sorry for running a bit long)

Gassho

Stlah

Horin

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[Seikan]

In my limited experience, I've found it "normal" to experience any and all types of sensations. None of them are any more correct/wrong than the others. Whether pleasant or unpleasant, they're all just scenery on the path of zazen—nothing to hold on to.

Gassho,
Rob

-stlah-


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[Onka]

Hey Dave.
For me Shikantaza hurts. A lot. In saying that the primary feeling I get is sitting WITH the pain these days rather than trying to escape it. I keep my tongue behind my front teeth with jaw gently shut too. I find this helps keep me awake.
Gassho
Onka
Sat today/apologies for more than 3 sentences

[Shonin]

Thank you all for the responses. I agree not to cling to or look for this. But i noticed it more recently and thought to ask. It seems that after a few minutes of this sensation that i feel like i'm floating outward and inward simultaneously and i tend to end my session feeling a deep peace and appreciation for the things and people around me. Just curious what others experience in regards to this or if it is more my imagination.
Dave SAT/LAH

[gaurdianaq]

Sometimes it feels like a barrage of thoughts flooding by me, other times it feels quiet. I try and sit with a deep trust that here and now is exactly where I need to be, but often I find my brain going "hey what if we do this!"


Evan,
Sat today, lah

[Shonin]

Well there's more going on than just the sense of warmth and peace. Im like everyone else in having to sit with physical or mental pain. Or having other thoughts arise. I just refocus on my breathing when these things arise. Hell, I have days where i try to sit and my brain wont shut up and i cant let go and just give in and try later. But in the end it is a feeling like " Everything is okay even if such and such is going on."

[Jundo]

Such wise comments from all!

I am also of the school that these feeling of joy or bliss are lovely ... and to be cherished.

Yet all of Zazen is lovely and to be cherished, including the times not so.

It is something like saying that the sunny and clear and pleasantly warm days are to be treasured, but so are the rainy, stormy or turbulent and cold days. Don't think that the point of this practice is just to make the weather always sunny and clear and warm. It is all OKAY, and the sun shines in the open sky whether seen or unseen.

There is nothing to "cultivate," but everything to allow, letting the weather just pass on by without resistance. We do not cling to sunshine. We do not resist the stormy days, nor stir them up into greater storms.

(sorry to run long)

Gassho, J

SatTodayLAH

PS - Yes, placing the tongue behind the teeth on the roof of the mouth is our traditional way. It reduces swallowing, for one.

[Geika]

Once, I heard Norman Fischer say, "Zazen is just sitting with the feeling of being alive."

Gassho
Sat, lah

[Jakuden]

I’m with the others here that sitting is sitting in all kinds of internal weather, and all kinds of sensations. What attracted me to answer this is that I remembered one of my earliest posts here was whether or not it was ok to feel joy! It was literally so long since I hadn’t felt guilty about being happy that it felt forbidden, somehow. I soon found out that the feeling of joy comes and goes and isn’t a permanent state of blissful enlightenment, though.

Gassho,
Jakuden
SatToday/LAH


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[Shonin]

Thanks to all whom haven't been thanked yet. : ) And to all who may comment. I was more curious about whether others experience it or not since it's been a more recent occurrence. I kinda fell off the wagon in my practice last two weeks but started up again a few days ago. I'm wondering if this sensation will return with my sittings. It would usually take about 5- 10 min before i experienced this. The 10 min mark is usually where i get into the "zone" so to speak. Takes a few minutes for my mind to settle and definitely settles faster if i can keep a diligent practice. It doesnt take away my physical or mental pain, i still suffer severe anxiety and depression...but I don't know ,something about sitting makes all of it okay.

Dave
SAT/LAH

[Jundo]

... It doesnt take away my physical or mental pain, i still suffer severe anxiety and depression...but I don't know ,something about sitting makes all of it okay.

Now, here is the counter-intuitive wise-weird of "Just Sitting":

When the joy or bliss and peace and big "It's Okay" comes which does remove our sadness and anxiety or other physical/mental pain ... we cherish this.

But when there is passing mental weather of "sadness and anxiety or other physical/mental pain" which stays, we are still somehow "Big Okay" with that fact too (even if, perhaps, it is sometimes more a trust and faith in the moment that the pain is "Big Okay," even when it sure don't feel "okay"!!)

There was the other thread today on "grief" in the face of death or the like: Sometimes the joy and bliss might sweep away grief ... and sometimes we just sit while grieving, trying our best to trust that there is something which leaps through the broken heart ... letting the grief just do its thing and resound through us ... letting the grief just be the grief being felt without adding to it our despair and frustration at feeling grief (in other words, letting the grief be grief without adding on "more grief about our grieving" ...) ... and all is Big Okay. Likewise for moments of anxiety or the like.

You will be surprised how the fire of the emotion still burns, but provides light rather than burning down the house!

(I feel the pain of having run long, and apologize).

Gassho, J

STLah

[Inshin]

Thanks to all whom haven't been thanked yet. : ) And to all who may comment. I was more curious about whether others experience it or not since it's been a more recent occurrence. I kinda fell off the wagon in my practice last two weeks but started up again a few days ago. I'm wondering if this sensation will return with my sittings. It would usually take about 5- 10 min before i experienced this. The 10 min mark is usually where i get into the "zone" so to speak. Takes a few minutes for my mind to settle and definitely settles faster if i can keep a diligent practice. It doesnt take away my physical or mental pain, i still suffer severe anxiety and depression...but I don't know ,something about sitting makes all of it okay.

Dave
SAT/LAH

I have also experienced what you're describing, it is lovely, especially when your mind is usually clouded by anxiety and depression, it feels like a ray of sunshine after a long dark winter.

I'm wondering if this sensation will return with my sittings.

From my own experience I would suggest not to look for it again on the cushion, because you may fall in the trap of seeking and attachment. Let the Zazen do Zazen and try to cultivate joy of the cushion in daily life. The way I did it was to pay attention to the tiny moments where I would experience some sort of relief : finally getting to sit down after standing for very long time, feeling with whole body the relief, or paying attention with the whole body to the first few sips of hot tea after coming from cold, feeling the warmth, letting the relief and joy sprout. Theese seem to be insignificant moments but they ad up and become more prominent in daily life.

Gassho
Sat

[Shonin]

I for one can tell a difference in my thoughts when i practice steadily. Even on a bad day ( the holidays are rough and full of triggers for me) I am just calmer. Less prone to long strings of profanity when i get frustrated. It has really reshaped my life. It doesn't solve the problems just how I view and react to them. Like others have said I try to let the bad days be bad days and the good days be good days.
Recently a friend of mine was engaging in dark humor and noticed I wasn't responding likewise and made a comment to another friend present that I had "grown a heart". Made me laugh. But people do notice. I chalk it up to zazen and trying to follow the precepts. Is this what we would call awakening?
Dave
SAT/LAH

[Shoki]

I, like I'd bet a lot of people, feel all kinds of things during zazen. Even if I feel calm and serene, that's nice but it's more of a byproduct of sitting. I don't get so hung up on it.

For some reason, lately I've been feeling impatient during zazen. I have things to do today. Chores, tasks, etc. If I'm going to be impatient today, then I'll be impatient. This feeling will not last.

While reading the section of The Zen Master's Dance I was struck by Jundo's writing of how time moves. An analogy came to mind of time being like watching a Youtube video. You know how that dot on the bottom of the screen moves along as the video plays? Time is kind of like that dot moving across the screen while watching and listening. You can think of that funny thing from 30 seconds ago or the scary thing happening now or what will happen in two minutes in the video, but....that dot is "where it's at".

Gassho
ST-lah
Shoki