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Thread: What is "silent annihilation"?

  1. #1

    What is "silent annihilation"?

    I came across a post on Reddit and had a question:

    Yuanyun Jiexian was a master of the Linji lineage, who lived from 1610 to 1672. This is an excerpt from his writings of advice for Chan masters teaching students using the huatou method. In this case, the huatou is the focus point of a broader koan. For example, "The myriad things return to one. What does one return to?" or "What was your original face before your parents were born?"

    In this excerpt, he's advising Chan masters in directing the specific needs of different students during a seven-day meditation retreat, and the importance of the master in having interviewed every single student and know precisely where they're at and which huatou they are working on.

    He then lists the various ways that students working on a huatou can go astray.

    ...

    When the master goes to the Chan Hall, he must first know the names and faces of everyone in the congregation and the huatou that each one of them has made his basic investigation. Only then can he set to work to train and temper them. If the master does not know the people he is dealing with, then even if they gather together for ninety days, they will be like passing strangers.

    If the master knows the people but does not know their fundamental question, then when the Chan master comes down to the Chan Hall and wants to engage the practitioners and press them to advance, he will have no way to do so.

    If a Chan master wants to know these things, the method is to have practitioners enter his private room and to probe and test them and cut away their illusions. In general, people vary in their basic capacities, and there are many different kinds of investigation and learning.

    Some may understand huatous intellectually but lack the will to come to grips with them and investigate them.

    Some cannot develop a decisive will in their investigation or are hesitant to go all out.

    Some have the will but cannot generate the doubt sensation.

    Some get caught up in wandering thoughts as soon as the huatou is brought forth.

    Some investigate for years without knowing how to do genuine meditation work, and so accomplish nothing.

    Some draw theoretical principles from the scriptures and seek to align these to the huatou.

    Some just make use of the huatou to dispel wandering thoughts.

    Some hide away inside the armour of "non-doing" and lay to rest their sense faculties.

    Some stubbornly follow their subjectivity and take it as their own master.

    Some recognise seamless silent annihilation as complete realisation.

    If there is no genuine Chan master to set the people who fall into these errors straight, and they have no real inner doubts, all sorts of sicknesses will develop. In all of these cases, when the practitioners who harbour these illusions enter the master's room, the master must search out and expose these illusions one by one and utterly sweep away each and every one of them.

    The master must dissolve the sticking points and remove the bonds for the practitioner, banish his fixations and wipe away his confusion.

    The master cuts the entanglements that the practitioner brings along with him and cures the mortal illness that has entered deep within him.

    If the master directs the practitioner towards genuine investigation, then the road he follows is sure to be correct.
    I've highlighted the bit relevant to my question. How can one tell the difference between "silent annihilation" and shikantaza?

    Gassho
    Kyōsen
    Sat|LAH
    橋川
    kyō (bridge) | sen (river)

  2. #2
    Hi Kyōsen

    Ever since Dahui, the Linji (Rinzai) school has often spoken pejoratively about the silent illumination practice of the Caodong (Sōtō) school, maintaining that it is an exercise in passivity and doing nothing since everyone is considered already enlightened: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahui_...t_illumination

    I imagine that 'Silent Annihilation' is another pejorative dig at silent illumination and shikantaza.

    The way to practice Shikantaza has been widely spoken about here by Jundo, and by many other reputable teachers elsewhere. I read Dōgen's Fukanzazengi often and Jundo's chapter on that piece in The Zen Master's Dance is excellent.

    I really would not worry about derogatory words from other schools and instead focus on the good practice advice from our own teachers.

    Apologies for taking too many sentences for explanation.

    Gassho
    Kokuu
    -satttoday-
    Last edited by Kokuu; 12-16-2020 at 12:43 AM.

  3. #3
    Thank you, Kokuu. I suspected that "silent annihilation" was derogatory for "silent illumination", but I'm not familiar enough with Yuanyun Jiexan to have known lol

    Gassho
    Kyōsen
    Sat|LAH
    橋川
    kyō (bridge) | sen (river)

  4. #4
    What Kokuu said.

    I would add that, in my understanding as someone from another tradition, the kind of personal one-on-one practice as described in the essay is very important in Koan Introspection practice.

    I would also say that "silent annihilation" may, in fact, not be a reference to "silent illumination" at all. From the context, it sounds more like some kind of deep losing oneself in emptiness or total "no thought," where the head is just deep and dead. That is a kind of practice that even Dogen and the Soto masters caution against. Such a state may arise to anyone sometimes, whether engaged in Shikantaza or Koan Introspection, but the Zen masters generally caution against mistaking such a blank state as enlightenment. A common misconception about Zen meditation is that the mind should be empty or void of thought and, while sometimes that happens, that is not "complete realization."

    In Zazenshin, for example, Dogen cautioned ...

    Recently, however, some stupid illiterates say, "Once you attain [the state in which] the breast is without concerns, the concentrated effort at seated meditation is peace and tranquility." ... In their writings, we only find that they encouraged people to return to original tranquility. The practice that they emphasized was, meaninglessly, to stop thinking and become still"
    Sorry to run long.

    Gassho, J

    STLah
    Last edited by Jundo; 12-16-2020 at 03:51 AM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  5. #5
    A: a zen heavy metal band? lol

    gassho

    risho
    -stlah

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Risho View Post
    A: a zen heavy metal band? lol

    gassho

    risho
    -stlah
    Somebody beat you to it ...



    Gassho, J

    STLah
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  7. #7
    Thank you, Jundo

    That makes sense; I have come across people who think that "enlightenment" is when thoughts stop arising in the mind and that always struck me as a strange thing to think.

    Gassho
    Kyōsen
    Sat|LAH
    橋川
    kyō (bridge) | sen (river)

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyōsen View Post
    Thank you, Jundo

    That makes sense; I have come across people who think that "enlightenment" is when thoughts stop arising in the mind and that always struck me as a strange thing to think.

    Gassho
    Kyōsen
    Sat|LAH
    The amount of anxiety I’d feel completely devoid of thought sounds like the opposite of enlightenment to me. Like being in a soundproof room for too long

    Gassho,
    Jesse
    ST

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