Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 50 of 107

Thread: Split Thread: "Freedom of Art Expression" v. "No Politics" Rule at Treeleaf

  1. #1

    Split Thread: "Freedom of Art Expression" v. "No Politics" Rule at Treeleaf

    WARNING TO THE SENSITIVE: THREAD CONTAINS SOME GRAPHIC VIOLENT IMAGES!

    JUNDO NOTE: Hmmm. Our "no politics" request vs. Freedom in Art Expression. Hmmm.

    Please see discussion below regarding why I am asking that we not post pictures of particular candidates or national flags here, in this Sangha, especially today, whether with dogs and families or not. I also try to explain more here: (A Time for Coming Together, Looking Past "Ours" and "Yours")

    I edited the photo (save for the dog), but it can be restored here. But let's not divide into cats and dogs.

    UPDATE: After sitting with this for a day, I have decided to remove all pictures of particular political candidates, national flags and like symbols.



    Beautiful dog named Champ. dlt beauty dog.jpg

    NOTE: PHOTO EDITED BY JUNDO TO REMOVE POLITICAL CANDIDATE AND HIS WIFE.
    Last edited by Jundo; 11-13-2020 at 01:32 AM.

  2. #2
    that is a beautiful dog!

    gassho

    risho
    -stlah

  3. #3
    Nice people broad smiles, champion dog!
    Gassho
    sat: lah
    Tai Shi


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    A monk asked Yun-men, "What are the teachings of a lifetime?" Yum-men said to him, "An appropriate statement." Zen Mondo

  4. #4
    Please note my change to a post above, focusing on the dog and not the politician. Happy to discuss.

    JUNDO NOTE: Hmmm. Our "no politics" request vs. Freedom in Art Expression. Hmmm.

    Well, Treeleaf is not a democracy, so ... dogs not politicians please.

    If ya don't like it, get a lawyer and take it to the Supreme Court!


    Beautiful dog named Champ.

    dlt beauty dog.jpg
    Gassho, Jundo, Chief Art Critic

    STLah
    Last edited by Jundo; 11-08-2020 at 04:55 AM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  5. #5
    Member Onka's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    rural queensland australia.
    Champ is a beauty Jishin.
    Growing up my family had 3 German Shepherds. Magnificent dogs. Old age took two of them, hip dysplasia eventually taking its toll on the third.
    Gassho
    Onka
    Sat today
    穏 On (Calm)
    火 Ka (Fires)
    aka Anna Kissed.
    Pronouns She/Her They/Them.
    Life's too serious to be taken seriously.
    No Gods No Masters.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    Please note my change to a post above, focusing on the dog and not the politician. Happy to discuss.



    Gassho, Jundo, Chief Art Critic

    STLah
    On a day when the entire world is talking about nothing else, this gets censored! There was no way anyone could reach out for support here during this really difficult time, and now there can't even be an acknowledgement of a world event that effects us all. What happened to all life being our temple?
    I can't work with the art forum under these conditions, take me off admin please.
    Meitou
    Sattoday
    命 Mei - life
    島 Tou - island

  7. #7
    Member Onka's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    rural queensland australia.
    Quote Originally Posted by Meitou View Post
    On a day when the entire world is talking about nothing else, this gets censored! There was no way anyone could reach out for support here during this really difficult time, and now there can't even be an acknowledgement of a world event that effects us all. What happened to all life being our temple?
    I can't work with the art forum under these conditions, take me off admin please.
    Meitou
    Sattoday
    Gassho
    Onka
    ST
    穏 On (Calm)
    火 Ka (Fires)
    aka Anna Kissed.
    Pronouns She/Her They/Them.
    Life's too serious to be taken seriously.
    No Gods No Masters.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    Please note my change to a post above, focusing on the dog and not the politician. Happy to discuss.



    Gassho, Jundo, Chief Art Critic

    STLah
    Sure. Let's discuss. I see a family portrait in the original with a beautiful German Shepherd dog as it's center piece. The photo also contains its owners who are happy to be posing with the dog. The photo is incomplete without the couple and no longer art (and a family portrait) without it. What do you see in the original that is objectionable?

    Gassho, Jishin, __/stlah\__

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Meitou View Post
    On a day when the entire world is talking about nothing else, this gets censored! There was no way anyone could reach out for support here during this really difficult time, and now there can't even be an acknowledgement of a world event that effects us all. What happened to all life being our temple?
    I can't work with the art forum under these conditions, take me off admin please.
    Meitou
    Sattoday
    Let me say that we can have a celebration of peace, transition and healing, but not about one candidate winning.

    Would that be okay?

    Folks (me too) are free to celebrate or be sad in their hearts because their candidate won or lost.

    There are 1000 other places in life where one can go to celebrate or mourn one's political desires, but this one place is beyond that. A college friend of mine is quite political on facebook, was asking people to post songs summing up their feelings, and I posted a video of a sarcastic, popular song to sum up my feelings (let's just say it expressed my own, personal political views and the particular candidates I like and dislike). Another friend wrote this ...

    This is a time for us to seek a way to heal. ... But not by those on the right, nor by those on the left... but by everybody on everybody. We are tasked with a serious charge now: to find a way to bring everybody back to the table so that we can have a meaningful conversation about what pragmatic compromise might look like. We must beat our swords into plowshares.

    If you still wish to be removed, that is fine, Meitou. Or, since the picture was of the Biden family, I can post a picture of the other candidate and a cute animal to balance this one. Either is fine, let me know.

    (sorry for running long)

    Gassho, J

    STLah
    Last edited by Jundo; 11-08-2020 at 01:55 AM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Meitou View Post
    On a day when the entire world is talking about nothing else, this gets censored! There was no way anyone could reach out for support here during this really difficult time, and now there can't even be an acknowledgement of a world event that effects us all. What happened to all life being our temple?
    I can't work with the art forum under these conditions, take me off admin please.
    Meitou
    Sattoday
    Thank you Meitou. Sadly and with a heavy heart I join you in this decision.

    Gassho, Anne
    ~st~

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Onka View Post
    Champ is a beauty Jishin.
    Growing up my family had 3 German Shepherds. Magnificent dogs. Old age took two of them, hip dysplasia eventually taking its toll on the third.
    Gassho
    Onka
    Sat today
    We have 3 German Shepherds and one comes to work with me everyday and sometimes serves as a therapy dog.

    This is her:

    JUNDO: Photo with Israeli Flag removed.

    Last edited by Jundo; 11-08-2020 at 01:13 AM.

  12. #12
    Thank you, Jishin,

    I removed the one photo with two dogs, and an Israeli flag. Or, if you wish to restore it, I can just go ahead and post a picture of a Palestinian flag and some pets. It is your choice completely.

    If our hosts wish to leave the arts center, they are welcome. The place can just stay open without hosts.

    Again, we must step beyond right and left, my people and your people, my country and your country ... etc. Let's not be like cats and dogs,

    Gassho, Jundo

    STLah
    Last edited by Jundo; 11-08-2020 at 01:32 AM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  13. #13
    NOTE: Please avoid posting national flags in this way. I will remove any further examples.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    Thank you, Jishin,

    I removed the one photo with two dogs, and an Israeli flag. Or, if you wish to restore it, I can just go ahead and post a picture of a Palestinian flag and some pets. It is your choice completely.

    If our hosts wish to leave the arts center, they are welcome. The place can just stay open without hosts.

    Again, we must step beyond right and left, my people and your people, my country and your country ... etc. Let's not be like cats and dogs,

    Gassho, Jundo

    STLah
    Here are some recent family pictures. Please counter balance them with any that you feel necessary.

    Gassho, Jishin, __/stlah\__

    NOTE: THREE PHOTOS REMOVED BY JUNDO DUE TO CENTRALLY FEATURED NATIONAL FLAGS

    Last edited by Jundo; 11-08-2020 at 11:24 PM.

  14. #14
    Here is another nice family portrait.

  15. #15
    Don't you have any lovely family photos without national flags, or pictures of dogs without candidates?

    I won't delete them, but I will ask you to reflect on why you feel this is necessary here, in this place of all places, where we try to look past flags and peoples a little? Is it different from three photos posted to intentionally highlight a "MAGA" (Make America Great Again) hat?

    Gassho, Jundo

    STLah
    Last edited by Jundo; 11-08-2020 at 04:56 AM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  16. #16
    PS - If you wish to repost your photo of the Bidens, Jishin, and the first Israeli/American flag, please do, and maybe I was too rash to actually edit it. However, I would like to put a little note at the top of your post pointing people to this discussion.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    PS - If you wish to repost your photo of the Bidens, Jishin, and the first Israeli/American flag, please do, and maybe I was too rash to actually edit it. However, I would like to put a little note at the top of your post pointing people to this discussion.
    Thank you. Here is the picture of Champ.

    I had to look up the meaning of "MAGA" hat. It means make America great again. I did not know it had a name. I am not sure where you saw a reference to that.

    Regarding Champ, he is a beautiful dog and a German Shepherd. It makes me feel good that other people have dogs, specially breeds that I like. It is even better when I like the owner.

    Regarding symbolism, you can not not teach and you can not not learn. Some of my pictures are teaching tools. That's all.

    Gassho, Jishin, __/stlah\__



    NOTE: PHOTO EDITED BY JUNDO TO REMOVE POLITICAL CANDIDATE AND HIS WIFE.
    Last edited by Jundo; 11-08-2020 at 11:28 PM.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Jishin View Post
    Thank you. Here is the picture of Champ.

    I had to look up the meaning of "MAGA" hat. It means make America great again. I did not know it had a name. I am not sure where you saw a reference to that.
    Here:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Make_America_Great_Again
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  19. #19
    I may me misunderstanding things. I know that it is something that Trump says and some people like it and some don't. I did not know that it had an acronym "MAGA". Did any of my pictures make mention of it?

    Gassho, Jishin, __/stlah\__

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Jishin View Post
    I may me misunderstanding things. I know that it is something that Trump says and some people like it and some don't. I did not know that it had an acronym "MAGA". Did any of my pictures make mention of it?

    Gassho, Jishin, __/stlah\__
    I believe that the pictures of national flags and a winning political candidate (with dogs and family or not) were in the same ballpark, and I would feel the same about MAGA photos too.

    NOTE: PHOTO WITH EXAMPLE MAGA HAT I POSTED NOW REMOVED

    I kind of think this is a little cute though, being a definite cat fanatic myself. NO DOGS ALLOWED in the Cohen house! LOCK EM UP (on a leash)! ...

    NOTE: PHOTO WITH EXAMPLE MAGA HAT I POSTED NOW REMOVED

    Gassho, J

    STLah
    Last edited by Jundo; 11-08-2020 at 11:29 PM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    I believe that the pictures of national flags and a winning political candidate (with dogs and family or not) were in the same ballpark, and I would feel the same about MAGA photos too.

    NOTE: PHOTO WITH EXAMPLE MAGA HAT I POSTED NOW REMOVED

    I kind of think this is a little cute though, being a definite cat fanatic myself (NO DOGS ALLOWED in the Cohen house! ) ...

    NOTE: PHOTO WITH EXAMPLE MAGA HAT I POSTED NOW REMOVED

    Gassho, J

    STLah
    These pictures are great. Thank you for sharing.

    I think you have a very difficult job in discerning benign from malignant photos from a political perspective and I would not want to be in your shoes.

    Gassho, Jishin, __/stlah\__
    Last edited by Jundo; 11-08-2020 at 11:30 PM.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Jishin View Post
    These pictures are great. Thank you for sharing.

    I think you have a very difficult job in discerning benign from malignant photos from a political perspective and I would not want to be in your shoes.

    Gassho, Jishin, __/stlah\__
    No, it is not so hard. Please avoid pictures of candidates, political slogans and national flags.

    Thank you.

    Gassho, Jundo

    STLah
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    No, it is not so hard. Please avoid pictures of candidates, political slogans and national flags.

    Thank you.

    Gassho, Jundo

    STLah
    I have not posted any pictures of candidates, political slogans or national flags. I posted family portraits.

    Gassho, Jishin, __/stlah\__

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Jishin View Post
    I have not posted any pictures of candidates, political slogans or national flags. I posted family portraits.

    Gassho, Jishin, __/stlah\__
    Gee, I didn't know that you were Joe Biden's son, or that you only own Star of David clothing.

    Gassho, J

    STLah
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    Gee, I didn't know that you were Joe Biden's son, or that you only own Star of David clothing.

    Gassho, J

    STLah
    I wear Star of David and Buddha clothing everyday. I have even worn a Trump hat on occasion though I am not a republican. It's just a hat.



    Gassho, Jishin, __/stlah\__

    NOTE PICTURE OF HAT SUPPORTING POLITICAL CANDIDATE REMOVED. TATTOO IS HERE AS AN EXAMPLE.
    Last edited by Jundo; 11-08-2020 at 11:31 PM.

  26. #26
    Well, no need to cover your tattoos. However, please no pictures of candidates, political slogans or national flags.

    If you do, I will just take them down.

    Gassho, Jundo

    STLah
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    Well, no need to cover your tattoos. However, please no pictures of candidates, political slogans or national flags.

    If you do, I will just take them down.

    Gassho, Jundo

    STLah
    The message you have conveyed is clear. Treeleaf is a place for practice. Leave things that are not conducive to practice such as politics at the door. That said, I don't see how anything I posted goes against this.

    Regarding taking things down, I trust your judgement.

    Gassho, Jishin, __/stlah\__
    Last edited by Jishin; 11-08-2020 at 07:58 AM.

  28. #28
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  29. #29
    Hello.
    I totally get, why party politics shouldn't have a place in a Buddhist Sangha.
    I totally get that seeing just a family portrait in these pictures and not party politics is practice, too.
    I also understand where and why Jundo draws the line.
    I also get that our curators and guides see the need to defend the freedom of art and am very sad about their decision.

    In the context of the Art Circle, I am also seeing the Social Sculpture in all this.
    Jishin has a quite striking way of expression (In German there is the word 'plakativ' for it, literally meaning 'like a poster').
    I am seeing it in his animal on black background pictures, zen postings, tattoos and also in this teaching.

    Imho Art is not mainly about beauty, but about the viewer relating to the work.
    So this work shows the tension, the pressure around this theme and reflects on the relation of Sangha, Art, Politics.

    It is just a family portrait. And yet, it is not.
    There is the need to defend the freedom of art. And yet, it is not?
    I would love to continue practicing Art with you, Meitou and Anne.

    Gassho,
    Kotei sat/lah today.

    義道 冴庭 / Gidou Kotei.
    Being a novice priest doesn't mean that my writing about the Dharma is more substantial than yours. Actually, it might well be the other way round.

  30. #30

    EXPRESSING CREATIVITY: Media Arts - photography, videography, photo collage, etc.

    Sorry I donít know the people above but the dog is a beautiful or should I say handsome specimen of a guard dog, German Shepherd bread. I understand that all dogs originated from a common simply wild brown dog and humans bred dogs of today.
    Gassho
    sat / lah
    Tai Shi


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    A monk asked Yun-men, "What are the teachings of a lifetime?" Yum-men said to him, "An appropriate statement." Zen Mondo

  31. #31
    Kotei, thank you for your kind words, you, Jishin, Kokuu and all who have contributed here will always be practicing art, both with Anne and myself and without us, because the circle is formed.
    I'll try to be brief. There seems to be a lack of definition here between what constitutes 'politics', and how it differs from 'party politics'.
    No-one can escape politics as long as they are breathing. Politics govern our every waking - and sleeping - moment. Even to get to this forum - the devices we use, the internet provider, the search engines, the website hosts - all of these things are governed directly or indirectly by political decisions - and in the main part, the huge companies we all think of as homogenous and international, are at heart, American. Google, Microsoft, Apple, Amazon, Facebook etc.
    For those of us who aren't straight white males, politics govern our basic rights, the amount of jurisdiction we have over our own bodies, how we are allowed to define our sexuality, who we can marry. Some of us have been fighting against those oppressions and for the rights of others since we could do joined up writing, politics before we knew the meaning of the word. Some of us can vote in our countries elections, some of us, including myself, cannot - that's politics.
    On this forum we have threads that are engaging with ecology and the destruction of our environment - politics plays, and will continue to play, a major role in how that progresses. We have threads relating to how we engage with racism, and how we engage with those of us who aren't straight white males, even to the extent of revisiting our vows and discussing how we can be more aware and inclusive - thanks to politics.
    I fully understand and support that this is not the place for party politics. But here's the rub. If someone came here, last week, today, tomorrow, and said Oh help I don't know who to vote for../ Jeez how could a Buddhist vote for../ I would ask you all to support.../ - yes, I agree, that is at best irrelevant and at worst divisive. Lots of other places to engage with those questions.
    But if someone came here and said Oh I feel so anxious and confused about the upcoming elections/ I'm so worried about my kids future I can't practice/ I don't know how to practice amongst all this political turmoil/I'm so freaking angry right about what's going on right now I can't sit/ I don't know how to reconcile my vows with how I'm feeling about the political situation - people that's a whole different ball game. And not to provide space for people to reach out in that way is a failure. It's not fulfilling our vows to be compassionate, it isn't socially engaged Buddhism. But you know what, ok, because as I posted elsewhere, other Sanghas and every Dharma related publication that drops into my email box have had a lot of wonderful advice and support for those in need- and I know there have been people here in need of that.
    But please Treeleaf, to deny just one small moment represented by one sweet and harmless photo, one small taste of the momentous events that are taking place right now, to deny that moment in an otherwise totally awful and utterly joyless year, that is more of a statement than the photo itself.( And I apologise wholeheartedly to all of those reading this for whom that photo represented an ocassion that has now made their year joyless.)
    And as someone who isn't a straight, white male, I feel sad that even after the work we've done with introducing the women's and differently abled ancestors lineage, and that we are reading and applauding a book dedicated to lost female voices, that there is no place here to just briefly honour the historic, immense and for many, life changing, achievement of one woman yesterday, but perhaps I just did that, ha.
    I can't speak for Anne, but I do know we share the same thoughts on much of what I've said, and I would suggest with the greatest respect, that this is a good time for us to step away from curating the Art Circle. As Jundo says, hosts aren't needed - art is like water, it flows through the cracks in everything and will always find a voice.
    Gassho
    Meitou
    sat
    Edit: ugh sorry for taking up so much space and time
    Last edited by Meitou; 11-08-2020 at 10:34 AM.
    命 Mei - life
    島 Tou - island

  32. #32
    Difficult discussion and I can see the point of view from both sides.

    So - I'll try to answer from an art point of view. As a viewer we automatically put our own interpretations on images/works of art - symbols speak to us.
    As a viewer belonging to an art forum I'm not primarily judging the image from a political point of view but I can see that prominent personalities/hats/flags etc
    might be interpreted that way. But as long as there's not any really offensive image being posted surely the whole pageant of life should be allowed on an art forum?
    We have this group to express our creativity on many levels - IMHO the calm acceptance of difference can only be polished amidst difference. As long as no one is proselytizing I'm happy
    to be challenged, made to think and appreciate views different to my own as expressed through art.

    I would be very sad if Ann and Meitou stand down,



    Will be sitting for remembrance Sunday here in the UK in a few hours

    Sorry Meitou - your post coincided with mine. I really understand where you're coming from but feel there are two connected/but different issues and maybe we should repost to the main message board?
    Last edited by Jinyo; 11-08-2020 at 11:32 AM.

  33. #33
    I'm late to this, having avoided the forum for the past two weeks because of my anxiety about the election.

    I have mixed feelings about all this. On the one hand, if someone posted a photo that _they took_ of the Bidens, or of Trump, I might consider that art. Or if someone posted photos that had _artistic value_, taken by someone else, _and crediting the photographer_, that would be different. But here, the posting of photos just as sort of - pardon the expression - pissing on benches to make a point doesn't seem to belong in a forum entitled "Expressing creativity."

    Yes, we are all political, and politics is everywhere, but I feel that there is a deliberate attempt to subvert the rules that have been made clear in the forum about leaving politics at the door. These are difficult times, and there is no point inflaming things that are outside the purview of these forums.

    Gassho,

    Kirk

    sat
    -----

    流文

    I know nothing.

  34. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinyo View Post
    Difficult discussion and I can see the point of view from both sides.


    Sorry Meitou - your post coincided with mine. I really understand where you're coming from but feel there are two connected/but different issues and maybe we should repost to the main message board?
    I'm not interested in discussing it further to be honest, I just stated my point of view, which is no more valid than anyone else's. I'm not looking for validation, approval or anything else, I won't be changing my mind because this is something I've been thinking about for a long, long time. I don't want it to be an issue and the more people weigh in, the more diffused the topic becomes. I think a line should be drawn here, and that be an end to it.
    As Jundo says, this isn't a democracy, he makes the rules and they have to be respected.
    Gassho
    Meitou
    sattoday lah
    命 Mei - life
    島 Tou - island

  35. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Meitou View Post
    I'm not interested in discussing it further to be honest, I just stated my point of view, which is no more valid than anyone else's. I'm not looking for validation, approval or anything else, I won't be changing my mind because this is something I've been thinking about for a long, long time. I don't want it to be an issue and the more people weigh in, the more diffused the topic becomes. I think a line should be drawn here, and that be an end to it.
    As Jundo says, this isn't a democracy, he makes the rules and they have to be respected.
    Gassho
    Meitou
    sattoday lah
    I will address your comments in a separate discussion.

    https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/show...e-Other-Places
    Last edited by Jundo; 11-08-2020 at 03:45 PM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  36. #36
    Every person who has, over the past few years, contributed to the Art Forum I bow in gratitude. There is so much wonderful creative energy in Treeleaf.
    It has truly been a humbling and enjoyable experience hosting, along with Meitou this past year, these discussions.

    But as Jundo has so succinctly pointed out we are dispensable and you can and will continue to post your wonderful work for all to enjoy whether we are here or not.

    I am committed to art, it is my career and my passion. Please if you want to share a project with me please contact me. I am dedicated to encouraging creativity. From the beginning of my tenure, I wanted to make it clear that we are ALL creative creatures whether we make music, words, dance, photos, visual arts, cooking, gardens. And that is something to celebrate.

    I am sorry that these 'political' differences seems to have caused bad feelings and hurt. This horrid year has left me raw and stressed and I have found my art practice has been a real respite place. As I long for a place of solace.

    I truly have loved my time on the forum and am grateful to Jundo for his trust in me...

    Keep making art!

    Bowing in gratitude to you all!
    Anne

    ~lahst~

  37. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Cooperix View Post
    Every person who has, over the past few years, contributed to the Art Forum I bow in gratitude. There is so much wonderful creative energy in Treeleaf.
    It has truly been a humbling and enjoyable experience hosting, along with Meitou this past year, these discussions.

    But as Jundo has so succinctly pointed out we are dispensable and you can and will continue to post your wonderful work for all to enjoy whether we are here or not.

    I am committed to art, it is my career and my passion. Please if you want to share a project with me please contact me. I am dedicated to encouraging creativity. From the beginning of my tenure, I wanted to make it clear that we are ALL creative creatures whether we make music, words, dance, photos, visual arts, cooking, gardens. And that is something to celebrate.

    I am sorry that these 'political' differences seems to have caused bad feelings and hurt. This horrid year has left me raw and stressed and I have found my art practice has been a real respite place. As I long for a place of solace.

    I truly have loved my time on the forum and am grateful to Jundo for his trust in me...

    Keep making art!

    Bowing in gratitude to you all!
    Anne

    ~lahst~
    I second that emotion!
    Gassho
    Meitou
    sattoday lah
    命 Mei - life
    島 Tou - island

  38. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by kirkmc View Post
    I'm late to this, having avoided the forum for the past two weeks because of my anxiety about the election.

    I have mixed feelings about all this. On the one hand, if someone posted a photo that _they took_ of the Bidens, or of Trump, I might consider that art. Or if someone posted photos that had _artistic value_, taken by someone else, _and crediting the photographer_, that would be different. But here, the posting of photos just as sort of - pardon the expression - pissing on benches to make a point doesn't seem to belong in a forum entitled "Expressing creativity."

    Yes, we are all political, and politics is everywhere, but I feel that there is a deliberate attempt to subvert the rules that have been made clear in the forum about leaving politics at the door. These are difficult times, and there is no point inflaming things that are outside the purview of these forums.

    Gassho,

    Kirk

    sat
    Exactly, Kirk, we are not even supposed to repost photos in the "Random Photos" group--the photos are supposed to be original works there. I presume the original intent was to avoid it becoming Facebook at Treeleaf. Why was the reposted picture of a political figure in this thread so important to a Zen arts group? IMO, it wasn't--it was placed here to start conflict, and it did so, very effectively.

    Gassho,
    Jakuden
    SatToday
    清 道 寂田
    SEIDO JAKUDEN
    She/her.
    I am a novice priest. Any resemblance my posts may have to actual teachings about the Dharma, living or dead, is purely coincidental (and just my attempt to be helpful).

  39. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Jakuden View Post
    Exactly, Kirk, we are not even supposed to repost photos in the "Random Photos" group--the photos are supposed to be original works there. I presume the original intent was to avoid it becoming Facebook at Treeleaf. Why was the reposted picture of a political figure in this thread so important to a Zen arts group? IMO, it wasn't--it was placed here to start conflict, and it did so, very effectively.

    Gassho,
    Jakuden
    SatToday
    You are projecting as this is what your intent would have been. You are not a mind reader Jakuden.

    Gassho, Jishin, __/stlah\__

  40. #40
    Member Onka's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    rural queensland australia.
    The real discussion should be about whether moccasin's are a shoe or a slipper.
    Gassho
    Onka
    ST
    穏 On (Calm)
    火 Ka (Fires)
    aka Anna Kissed.
    Pronouns She/Her They/Them.
    Life's too serious to be taken seriously.
    No Gods No Masters.

  41. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Jishin View Post
    You are projecting as this is what your intent would have been. You are not a mind reader Jakuden.

    Gassho, Jishin, __/stlah\__
    Ya got me there, yes the secret intent of my every post is to create conflict on the forum. Iíve been going about it all wrong!

    Gassho
    Jakuden
    SatToday


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    清 道 寂田
    SEIDO JAKUDEN
    She/her.
    I am a novice priest. Any resemblance my posts may have to actual teachings about the Dharma, living or dead, is purely coincidental (and just my attempt to be helpful).

  42. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Jakuden View Post
    Ya got me there, yes the secret intent of my every post is to create conflict on the forum. Iíve been going about it all wrong!

    Gassho
    Jakuden
    SatToday


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    I think this picture says it best. What do you see? Whatever you see is wrong. We should proceed with this in mind.

    Gassho, Jishin, __/stlah\__


  43. #43
    But as Jundo has so succinctly pointed out we are dispensable
    I NEVER said anyone is dispensable and, quite the contrary, you have been doing amazing things here. It is just my policy not to chase people into Treeleaf, nor to chase after folks who wish to go. You are the one who said you are going.

    However, sorry, while it is a fine line and I believe in art freedom, this was an end run by Jishin around the "no politics" rule of our Sangha, with a dog picture that "just happened," he never noticed, to have a political candidate sitting there.

    After sitting with and sleeping on this overnight, I have decided to delete the picture as well as the national flag pictures and MAGA hat pictures. Sorry, Jishin. We leave support of particular candidates and national flags at the door here. Thank you.

    Sorry to run long.

    Gassho, Jundo

    STLah
    Last edited by Jundo; 11-08-2020 at 11:39 PM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  44. #44
    No problem Jundo, you have to do what you think is best for the Sangha. I had to look up the meaning of "end run" as per Wikipedia:

    ...In gridiron football, an end run is a running play in which the player carrying the ball tries to avoid being tackled by running outside the end (or flank) of the offensive line.[1] It is distinct from a dive, which is a run "up the middle", or an off-tackle run, which is a run through the inside gap created by the offensive tackle...

    I think that we create the world with our minds and in this case a story has been created with many different interpretations.


    Gassho, Jishin, __/stlah\__

  45. #45
    I have deleted the photos of candidates, national flags as well as the MAGA hats posted by me.

    I have kept the pictures of the rainbow flags because they actually contain both the Buddhist "rainbow flag" and the LGBT+ rainbow flag (which, by the way, are not the same flag. They just happen to both be rainbow flags, the former representing all the many flavors of Buddhism as the colors associated with the below meanings) In our Sangha, the LGBT+ rainbow flag is not considered a political statement as much as a statement of non-discriminatory social policy in keeping with our Vows, Precepts, Wisdom and Compassion. It is a fine line, but those flags of inclusivity ... not nationalism and separation ... are tolerated here.

    About the Buddhist flag (there are actually some variations, and Japan has its own version a little different):

    The flag was originally designed in 1885 by the Colombo Committee, in Colombo, Ceylon ... At the 1952 World Fellowship of Buddhists, the flag of Buddhists was adopted as the International Buddhist Flag. ... The flag's six vertical bands represent the six colors of the aura which Buddhists believe emanated from the body of the Buddha when he attained Enlightenment:[6][1]

    Blue (Pāli and Sanskrit: nīla): The Spirit of Universal Compassion

    Yellow (Pāli and Sanskrit: pīta): The Middle Way

    Red (Pāli and Sanskrit: lohitaka): The Blessings of Practice – achievement, wisdom, virtue, fortune and dignity

    White (Pāli: odāta; Sanskrit: avadāta): The Purity of Dhamma – leading to liberation, timeless

    Orange (Pāli: maŮjeṭṭha; Sanskrit: maŮjiṣṭhā - alternatively scarlet): The Wisdom of the Buddha's teachings

    The sixth vertical band, on the fly, is made up of a combination of the five other colors' rectangular bands, and represents a compound of said colors in the aura's spectrum. This new, compound color is referred to as the Truth of the Buddha's teaching or Pabbhassara ('essence of light').



    In Japan, there is a traditional Buddhist flag (五色幕—goshikimaku) which has different colors but is sometimes merged with the design of the international flag to represent international cooperation.[citation needed]
    The Japanese Jōdo Shinshū replaces the orange stripe with pink.[citation needed]
    In Tibet, the stripes' colors represent the different colors of Buddhist robes comprehensively united in one banner. Tibetan monastic robes are maroon, so the orange stripes in the original design are often replaced with maroon.[citation needed]
    Tibetan Buddhists in Nepal replace the orange stripes with plum stripes.[citation needed]
    Theravāda Buddhists in Myanmar replace orange with pink, the color of the robe of the country's bhikkhunīs.[citation needed]
    Theravāda Buddhists in Thailand opt the usage of a yellow flag with a red dhammacakka; it is sometimes paired with the international Buddhist flag.[citation needed]
    Soka Gakkai uses a tricolor of blue, yellow, and red.[7] It is often mistaken to the flag of Romania.

    Japanese version:

    Personally, I don't really believe that we need a "Buddhist Flag" because, although inclusive of Buddhists, perhaps still dividing from others. Hmmm.

    Sorry to have written long.

    Gassho, J

    STLah
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  46. #46
    Member Onka's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    rural queensland australia.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jishin View Post
    No problem Jundo, you have to do what you think is best for the Sangha. I had to look up the meaning of "end run" as per Wikipedia:

    ...In gridiron football, an end run is a running play in which the player carrying the ball tries to avoid being tackled by running outside the end (or flank) of the offensive line.[1] It is distinct from a dive, which is a run "up the middle", or an off-tackle run, which is a run through the inside gap created by the offensive tackle...

    I think that we create the world with our minds and in this case a story has been created with many different interpretations.


    Gassho, Jishin, __/stlah\__
    Not intending to derail things but the story I've created involves Green Bay winning the Superbowl. Alas I think that without Clay Matthews and with Aaron Rodgers getting older it will be some time before my story becomes a reality. #GoPackGo
    In other news I'm still waiting for someone to commit to moccasin's being slippers or shoes...
    Gassho
    Onka
    ST/tried to play the diffusing card.
    穏 On (Calm)
    火 Ka (Fires)
    aka Anna Kissed.
    Pronouns She/Her They/Them.
    Life's too serious to be taken seriously.
    No Gods No Masters.

  47. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Onka View Post
    Not intending to derail things but the story I've created involves Green Bay winning the Superbowl. Alas I think that without Clay Matthews and with Aaron Rodgers getting older it will be some time before my story becomes a reality. #GoPackGo
    In other news I'm still waiting for someone to commit to moccasin's being slippers or shoes...
    Gassho
    Onka
    ST/tried to play the diffusing card.
    I commit to shoes.

  48. #48
    Member Onka's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    rural queensland australia.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    I have deleted the photos of candidates, national flags as well as the MAGA hats posted by me.

    I have kept the pictures of the rainbow flags because they actually contain both the Buddhist "rainbow flag" and the LGBT+ rainbow flag (which, by the way, are not the same flag. They just happen to both be rainbow flags, the former representing all the many flavors of Buddhism as the colors associated with the below meanings) In our Sangha, the LGBT+ rainbow flag is not considered a political statement as much as a statement of non-discriminatory social policy in keeping with our Vows, Precepts, Wisdom and Compassion. It is a fine line, but those flags of inclusivity ... not nationalism and separation ... are tolerated here.

    About the Buddhist flag (there are actually some variations, and Japan has its own version a little different):



    Personally, I don't really believe that we need a "Buddhist Flag" because, although inclusive of Buddhists, perhaps still dividing from others. Hmmm.

    Sorry to have written long.

    Gassho, J

    STLah
    At risk of being banned again I have to say sorry Jundo but the rainbow flag is extremely political, as political and beyond social policy for many Queer folk as the black flag is for those of us not into party politics. Many have been murdered for it just as people have been murdered for the Star of David, Palestinian and Anarchist flags.
    With respect
    Gassho
    Onka
    ST
    Not trying to cause trouble just clarifying.
    穏 On (Calm)
    火 Ka (Fires)
    aka Anna Kissed.
    Pronouns She/Her They/Them.
    Life's too serious to be taken seriously.
    No Gods No Masters.

  49. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Onka View Post
    In other news I'm still waiting for someone to commit to moccasin's being slippers or shoes...
    Onka, your asking the question is culturally appropriating.

    (Actually, I am not opening a serious discussion of that, just make a little snide attempt at humor to lighten things).

    Gassho, J

    STLah
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  50. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Onka View Post
    At risk of being banned again I have to say sorry Jundo but the rainbow flag is extremely political, as political and beyond social policy for many Queer folk as the black flag is for those of us not into party politics. Many have been murdered for it just as people have been murdered for the Star of David, Palestinian and Anarchist flags.
    I know that the LGBTQ+ rainbow flag is political and folks have struggled and died for it ... but I would still put it as primarily a symbol of unity, equality, coming together, human rights that places it in a category with, I feel, the "peace sign" flag, the Red Cross flag or the UN flag (some who are against world governance would disagree with me about the latter). The Israeli flag, Palestinian flag, Hammer & Sickle, Anarchist flags, US flag etc. are primarily politics and/or nationalism.

    It is a fine line, but that is why the rainbow flag or Red Cross flag etc. would be okay here.



    Gassho, J

    STLah
    Last edited by Jundo; 11-09-2020 at 12:10 AM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •