Posture and the content of my zazen.

[Stewart]

During the last 4 hour zazenkai, my leg went into spasm while I was sitting and I had to roll off the cushion to stretch. I have been sitting Burmese style. For a long time my left leg and foot has gone numb if I sit for longer periods but this was the first time this has happened. So, this weekend, I experimented with sitting seiza but with the zafu between my legs, so that I was still sitting on the cushion. In addition to no pain or numbness I was also sitting with a much better posture, i.e. a straight back. I could then sit without thinking about whether I could stand up again for kinhin. A couple of times in temples, I've fallen over after sitting because I was unable to walk.

As a result of this I settled into the sitting and had a few strong emotional reactions. As best I can I try to let thoughts simply drift away but this time when a recurring issue at work came up it was quickly followed by the startling image of a puss filled wound bursting and being drained. When I did kinhin, I found myself crying. More emotional fireworks than I've ever had in sitting before.

Stewart
Sat

[Tai Shi]

Sometimes I sit in an easy chair!


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[Bion]

During the last 4 hour zazenkai, my leg went into spasm while I was sitting and I had to roll off the cushion to stretch. I have been sitting Burmese style. For a long time my left leg and foot has gone numb if I sit for longer periods but this was the first time this has happened. So, this weekend, I experimented with sitting seiza but with the zafu between my legs, so that I was still sitting on the cushion. In addition to no pain or numbness I was also sitting with a much better posture, i.e. a straight back. I could then sit without thinking about whether I could stand up again for kinhin. A couple of times in temples, I've fallen over after sitting because I was unable to walk.

As a result of this I settled into the sitting and had a few strong emotional reactions. As best I can I try to let thoughts simply drift away but this time when a recurring issue at work came up it was quickly followed by the startling image of a puss filled wound bursting and being drained. When I did kinhin, I found myself crying. More emotional fireworks than I've ever had in sitting before.

Stewart
Sat

I don’t have the impression it troubles you. I don’t think it should. Zazen is good for nothing but then again able to accomplish so much that it manages to startle us and shake us up at times. I’ve shed tears during zazen before and cried during the metta verse, so no worries Stewart!

SatToday lah (sorry for the extra lines)

[Stewart]

I don’t have the impression it troubles you. I don’t think it should. Zazen is good for nothing but then again able to accomplish so much that it manages to startle us and shake us up at times. I’ve shed tears during zazen before and cried during the metta verse, so no worries Stewart!

SatToday lah (sorry for the extra lines)

Quite so - doesn't bother me at all. Interesting and has aroused my curiosity a little but no concern.

Stewart
Sat

[Jundo]

During the last 4 hour zazenkai, my leg went into spasm while I was sitting and I had to roll off the cushion to stretch. I have been sitting Burmese style. ....A couple of times in temples, I've fallen over after sitting because I was unable to walk.

"A guy walks into a doctor's office, and says 'Doctor, it hurts when I do this...' Doctor says, "Then don't do that."



If a posture feels reasonably balanced, stable, comfortable ... do that!

I take it that you are sitting Seiza with the Zafu turned sideways, like riding a horse. That's great.

As a result of this I settled into the sitting and had a few strong emotional reactions. As best I can I try to let thoughts simply drift away but this time when a recurring issue at work came up it was quickly followed by the startling image of a puss filled wound bursting and being drained. When I did kinhin, I found myself crying. More emotional fireworks than I've ever had in sitting before.

Yes, lovely. Stuff comes up in the silence and allowing of our sitting and kinhin. Good. It was probably a wound that needed to burst. Lovely. When crying just cry, then keep walking forward ...

(Sorry for running long. Don't do that! )

Gassho, J

STLah

[shikantazen]

FYI, I recently had similar issue but the numbness was more prolonged (https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/show...after-zazenkai). Since then I have been sitting in a chair. I was hesitant but the chair experience wow'ed me in that it is no different than sitting on a zafu; My posture is automatically aligned (most of the times) and I feel good about energy in the posture

Gassho,
Sam
ST

[Stewart]

Sometimes I sit in an easy chair!


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I'd have to buy an easy chair to do that...LOL.

Stewart
Sat

[Jundo]

I'd have to buy an easy chair to do that...LOL.

Stewart
Sat

Tai Shi (it is not confidence, as he discusses the condition here often) has some neck and other health issues that may require an easy chair. It is not usually the best kind of chair for zazen, as it is too easy just to sink into and just doze.

... I was hesitant but the chair experience wow'ed me in that it is no different than sitting on a zafu...

Gassho, J

STLah

[Seishin]

Stewart

I also sit in seiza in the manner you described. I have never had the flexibility sit full, half and quarter lotus but tried Burmese for a while but also experienced numbness and trouble standing ! I initially tried seiza with the zafu on its edge as is usually recommended but this resulted in sciatic pain and more numbness. Having purchased a slightly taller zafu I found I could sit on it "normally" with my legs either side. I very rarely get any discomfort sitting like this bar the occasional foot cramp when I first sit, cured by a little stretching.

However, sitting like this has yet to induce any strong experiences as you describe. But it works for me.

sat

[Tai Shi]

Seishin
So, sometimes I sit in a strait back chair with right arm up against a desk, but once I was able to sit in strait back chair for an entire Zazenkai without any former pill I’ve given up. Depends on how I feel.
Gassho
sat / lah
Tai Shi


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[Kokuu]

FYI, I recently had similar issue but the numbness was more prolonged (https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/show...after-zazenkai). Since then I have been sitting in a chair. I was hesitant but the chair experience wow'ed me in that it is no different than sitting on a zafu; My posture is automatically aligned (most of the times) and I feel good about energy in the posture

That is good to hear, Sam! One day we might have to get a collection of pictures of how many of us sit who cannot adopt some of the traditional postures.

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday(not on a cushion)-

[Onka]

That is good to hear, Sam! One day we might have to get a collection of pictures of how many of us sit who cannot adopt some of the traditional postures.

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday(not on a cushion)-

I agree Kokuu
Jundo has in my short time here always supported the idea of sitting how you can wherever you can (we even had a Lion's pose Zazenkai) but a lot of people still hold onto the idea that Shikantaza is only Shikantaza if performed sitting one of a few othodox poses. As another example of sitting how you can I can share that health challenges now mean I can only "sit" reclined with straight legs elevated, or laying down. Perhaps a small gallery of folk "sitting" in their non-traditional poses as an attachment to Jundo's beginner series of talks could add a visual reinforcement of his teaching...?
Gassho
Onka
sat today

[Meian]

I rarely sit traditionally, unable to without significant pain or problems.

Gassho, meian
Reclined today lh

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[Tai Shi]

I have what Jundo describes as driving down a highway taking note of scenery left and right but only noticed while watching straight ahead. Would you call that focus? I do exactly this while seated. I’ve never tried on my back, but Jundo says it can be done. My best results are with strait back chair with one arm supported. This is, of course, with my breath as Jundo describes I always try through my nose back and forth. Chanting as needed.
Gassho
sat / lah
Tai Shi

[Jundo]

Perhaps a small gallery of folk "sitting" in their non-traditional poses as an attachment to Jundo's beginner series of talks could add a visual reinforcement of his teaching...?
Gassho
Onka
sat today

That's a good idea. We do have our"Lion's Pose Zazenkai" ...



We will do it again during our Rohatsu Retreat.

Gassho, J

STlah

[Tai Shi]

I have found the chair of all chairs, just good for me, an office chair with back to my my shoulder blades. Arms on either sides I can keep me from falling out of the chair. The bottom contours the shape of my bottom with relatively firm back and seat. Perfect with feet flat on the floor. This is fairly comfortable with shape or straight back chair remodeled to fit a person like me. Full support with firm seat and back this is the closest I’ve ever come to a chair that meets requirements of me and Zazen. Or me! I found it in the dump, wiped it down. Except for one rip, the chair is perfect.
Gassho
sat / lah
Tai Shi


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[Tomás ESP]

Thank you for sharing Stewart. As Jake says, even though "Zazen is good for nothing", just being with whatever arises, without judging it, can be very different from our usual way of living. Just letting the emotions flow, seeing them come and go, sometimes different catharsis happen, and that is okay.

Gassho, Tomás

Sat