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Thread: Heart Sutra

  1. #1

    Heart Sutra

    May I kindly ask for an English singing version of Heart Sutra, with the stress on vowels, breaks etc...?
    Thank you.

    Gassho
    Sat

  2. #2
    Hi Ania

    Are you looking for a version that is different from what is chanted in the weekly Zazenkai?

    Gassho
    Kokuu
    -sattoday-
    ------------------------------------
    Feel free to message me if you wish to talk about issues around practicing with physical limitations. This is something I have been sitting with for a fair while and am happy to help with suggestions or just offer a listening ear.

  3. #3
    Maybe these links still work
    The Heart Sutra
    Voice only: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7J...ew?usp=sharing
    With Bell & Mokugyo: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7J...ew?usp=sharing
    Gassho
    Onka
    ST
    aka Anna Kissed
    Pronouns She/Her They/Them

  4. #4
    Yes, here is our version ...

    https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/show...nthly-Zazenkai

    Remember that there is quite a bit of variation in English (or other language) wording from western Sangha to western Sangha because these are all translations and interpretations of the Sino-Japanese (Chinese text pronounced in Japan in the Japanese way) which can be worded or expressed various ways in English and other languages. The text itself may have been composed in China first or in India (scholars are not sure), but is definitely a kind of "in a nutshell" summary of the much longer "Perfection of Wisdom" (Prajna Paramita) Sutra literature from India which emphasizes the identity of "form" and "emptiness" and how the mind creates our vision of a divided world.

    Gassho, Jundo

    SatTodayLAH

    PS - Hmmm. We haven't done so for awhile, maybe good to have a new teaching series on Heart Sutra. Hmmm.
    Last edited by Jundo; 10-02-2020 at 12:50 AM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    PS - Hmmm. We haven't done so for awhile, maybe good to have a new teaching series on Heart Sutra. Hmmm.
    Yes please.


    Tairin
    Sat today and lah
    泰林 - Tai Rin - Peaceful Woods

  6. #6
    Member RobD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    PS - Hmmm. We haven't done so for awhile, maybe good to have a new teaching series on Heart Sutra. Hmmm.
    I'll second (or third?) this. I've been wanting to take a deeper dive into the Heart Sutra for some time. I even recently picked up Kazuaki Takahashi's guide to the Heart Sutra, but it is still waiting patiently to be read.

    Gassho,
    Rob

    -stlah-

    Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by RobD View Post
    I'll second (or third?) this. I've been wanting to take a deeper dive into the Heart Sutra for some time. I even recently picked up Kazuaki Takahashi's guide to the Heart Sutra, but it is still waiting patiently to be read.

    Gassho,
    Rob
    The Tanahashi book is a little hard to read, but is fascinating from a translator's (like me) point of view because he handles the various character meanings in Chinese and Japanese in great detail. I like the Red Pine book on Heart Sutra as a better introduction.

    Gassho, Jundo

    STLah
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  8. #8
    Member RobD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    The Tanahashi book is a little hard to read, but is fascinating from a translator's (like me) point of view because he handles the various character meanings in Chinese and Japanese in great detail. I like the Red Pine book on Heart Sutra as a better introduction.

    Gassho, Jundo

    STLah
    Good to know about the Red Pine version. I'll likely grab a copy of that as well for comparison (and it sounds like it might be a required/suggested reading if you offer a course of study on the Heart Sutra).

    Thanks!

    Gassho,
    Rob

    -stlah-


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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post

    PS - Hmmm. We haven't done so for awhile, maybe good to have a new teaching series on Heart Sutra. Hmmm.
    Another yes, please!
    Gassho,
    Krista
    st

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    Yes, here is our version ...

    https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/show...nthly-Zazenkai

    Remember that there is quite a bit of variation in English (or other language) wording from western Sangha to western Sangha because these are all translations and interpretations of the Sino-Japanese (Chinese text pronounced in Japan in the Japanese way) which can be worded or expressed various ways in English and other languages. The text itself may have been composed in China first or in India (scholars are not sure), but is definitely a kind of "in a nutshell" summary of the much longer "Perfection of Wisdom" (Prajna Paramita) Sutra literature from India which emphasizes the identity of "form" and "emptiness" and how the mind creates our vision of a divided world.

    Gassho, Jundo

    SatTodayLAH

    PS - Hmmm. We haven't done so for awhile, maybe good to have a new teaching series on Heart Sutra. Hmmm.
    Thank you, that's what I was looking for! I'm gathering courage to try to chant it
    Study about Heart Sutra would be amazing!

    Gassho
    Sat

  11. #11
    To echo everyone else - I'd really like to study this again as well

    Gassho

    Risho
    -stlah

  12. #12
    When you said "singing version" I immediately thought of the Korean version, which is much more musical than it is in Japanese or English. Seon has a lot more Pure Land influence than Japanese Zen, so there's quite a bit more flair to their rituals.

    https://kwanumzen.org/resources-coll...utra-in-korean

    I sometimes go to a Korean Zen temple and the different approach to chanting is pretty interesting. The priests-in-training there have some very well-trained singing voices. The musicality has a purpose behind it (jump to 7:00 to get to the gyst ... also, these folks are from Regensburg and not Toronto!):


    At 17:00 he compares the Evening Bell Chant to punk rock... I have to agree!

    As for the sutra itself, I've read two books specifically on the topic, I would recommend both:

    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/...he-heart-sutra
    Kazuaki Tanahashi - "The Heart Sutra: A Comprehensive Guide to the Classic of Mahayana Buddhism"
    It's mostly a history book, comparing various versions of the sutra line-by-line, but Tanahashi's style keeps you entertained.
    I actually think Tanahashi is more accessible than, say, Shohaku Okumura, who writes in a style that would almost fit in an academic journal.

    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/..._Understanding
    Thich Nhat Hanh - "The Heart of Understanding: Commentaries on the Prajnaparamita Heart Sutra"
    Like most (all?) of his books, it's a very easy and pleasant read, maybe a bit too simplistic for some readers. Sometimes you just need to get to the heart () of the matter and not get so caught up in the words, though.

    Gassho,
    Kenny
    Sat Today
    Last edited by Kenny; 10-02-2020 at 05:34 PM.

  13. #13
    I would avoid Kazuaki Takahashi's book unless you are interested to know the details of the origin and history of the heart sutra. He does not explain the meaning of the heart sutra line by line. Red Pine's book is much better at teaching the content of the heart sutra.

    Gassho
    Van
    Satlah

    Sent from my HD1913 using Tapatalk

  14. #14
    Member RobD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vanbui View Post
    I would avoid Kazuaki Takahashi's book unless you are interested to know the details of the origin and history of the heart sutra. He does not explain the meaning of the heart sutra line by line. Red Pine's book is much better at teaching the content of the heart sutra.

    Gassho
    Van
    Satlah

    Sent from my HD1913 using Tapatalk
    Thank you for this. I'm actually very interested in both angles, so I'm thinking that a careful reading of both books is exactly what I need.

    Gassho,
    Rob

    -stlah-

    Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

  15. #15
    I thought the chapter on the Heart Sutra in the book “Living by Vow” by Shohaku Okumura was very good and accessible. We read this book a few years back as part of the Wordless Book club.


    Tairin
    Sat today and lah

  16. #16
    Member Seishin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onka View Post
    Maybe these links still work
    The Heart Sutra
    Voice only: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7J...ew?usp=sharing
    With Bell & Mokugyo: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7J...ew?usp=sharing
    Gassho
    Onka
    ST
    Onka/Ania

    I think the old links are unavailable but I downloaded them a few years back to learn the Heart Sutra by rote some Angos back. I have uploaded my own Treeleaf Recordings Chants folder to Drive, so feel free to help yourself to all that is in there.

    https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...Zv?usp=sharing

    Hopefully the share is working but shout up if you cannot access the files.

    Sat / lah


    Seishin

    Sei - Meticulous
    Shin - Heart

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Seishin View Post
    Onka/Ania

    I think the old links are unavailable but I downloaded them a few years back to learn the Heart Sutra by rote some Angos back. I have uploaded my own Treeleaf Recordings Chants folder to Drive, so feel free to help yourself to all that is in there.

    https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...Zv?usp=sharing

    Hopefully the share is working but shout up if you cannot access the files.

    Sat / lah
    Brilliant! Thank you.

    Gassho
    Sat

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny View Post
    When you said "singing version" I immediately thought of the Korean version, which is much more musical than it is in Japanese or English. Seon has a lot more Pure Land influence than Japanese Zen, so there's quite a bit more flair to their rituals.
    Most of the Koreans chants of the Heart Sutra that l have heard are at a quick pace, although much more "up and down" than the Japanese way.



    This seems closer to the modern Chinese form, although we have to guess what it might have been centuries ago.



    The Tibetans are also very musical ...



    The Japanese tend to the steady tone and beat ...



    A cultural difference. But the Heart Sutra is beyond the words and music anyway!

    Gassho, J

    STLah
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  19. #19
    Thank you Jundo


    SatToday
    流道
    Ryū Dou

  20. #20
    Member Seishin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ania View Post
    Brilliant! Thank you.

    Gassho
    Sat
    Ania

    Could you access the files ok ?

    sat lah


    Seishin

    Sei - Meticulous
    Shin - Heart

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Seishin View Post
    Ania

    Could you access the files ok ?

    sat lah
    Thank you Seishin!
    I didn't have any problems with accessing the files. Very valuable.

    Gassho
    Sat

  22. #22
    Apologies - long post coming in - - - Very interesting discussion, thank you. I was introduced to chanting this in the late 1970s/early 1980s. This was every day in English, as a part of Morning Office, 'The Heart of Great Wisdom' was the final text chanted after all these - Sandokai, The Most Excellent Mirror:Samadhi, the unabridged Ancestral Line, and the Scripture of Kanzeon Bosatsu. Then for particular festivals we chanted in Japanese. As it was what everyone else was chanting, I learned reading the text and copying what I heard, during actual ceremonial, no private practice. I think I understand why people read commentaries, for more insight or explanation, but I am not drawn to read commentaries. I don't know if my attitude is wrong? I suppose, being "thrown in at the deep end", as I was, meant that trainees either accepted the texts (and other ritual and schedules) or left. I am content to accept the texts as they stand, unless anyone thinks I am really missing a gem sonewhere. To me, producing the sounds of the Heart Sutra in Japanese (and equally, of the complete Ancestral Line) is an activity that is complete in itself.
    But I may be wrong, and I am always open and willing to hear other views and ideas.
    In Gassho
    Al
    stlah

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Allister View Post
    Apologies - long post coming in - - - Very interesting discussion, thank you. I was introduced to chanting this in the late 1970s/early 1980s. This was every day in English, as a part of Morning Office, 'The Heart of Great Wisdom' was the final text chanted after all these - Sandokai, The Most Excellent Mirror:Samadhi, the unabridged Ancestral Line, and the Scripture of Kanzeon Bosatsu. Then for particular festivals we chanted in Japanese. As it was what everyone else was chanting, I learned reading the text and copying what I heard, during actual ceremonial, no private practice. I think I understand why people read commentaries, for more insight or explanation, but I am not drawn to read commentaries. I don't know if my attitude is wrong? I suppose, being "thrown in at the deep end", as I was, meant that trainees either accepted the texts (and other ritual and schedules) or left. I am content to accept the texts as they stand, unless anyone thinks I am really missing a gem sonewhere. To me, producing the sounds of the Heart Sutra in Japanese (and equally, of the complete Ancestral Line) is an activity that is complete in itself.
    But I may be wrong, and I am always open and willing to hear other views and ideas.
    In Gassho
    Al
    stlah
    There is no right or wrong on this one, Al, and no one entrance to the Heart Sutra. You can just jump in and become the sound, in Japanese or English (or any other language, or silence. Washin often chants the Cерце Cутра for us in Ukranian: About the 7:00 mark here).



    Personally, I would say that the Heart Sutra is an important Zen/Mahayana doctrinal and philosophical text on Emptiness as Form, how the mind creates our experience of a divided world, and how our Practice undoes that process. So, it is worth study before and after we pour oneself into the naked sound. However, many entrances (non-entrances) to Emptiness.

    By the way, Kennett Roshi of the Order of Buddhist Contemplatives was very interested in merging Soto Zen with Christian (specifically Anglican) sensibilities (as seen, for example, in how she called the Morning Ceremony the "Morning Office," the "Scripture of Kanzeon," etc.) One beautiful example is how the OBC renders the Heart Sutra as evensong, a kind of Anglican Gregorian Chant (in my limited understand of church music). It is worth a listen.

    http://www.shastaabbey.org/audio/musicGreatwisdom.mp3

    Sorry for running long, more words about Emptiness.

    Gassho, J

    STLah
    Last edited by Jundo; 10-06-2020 at 09:49 PM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  24. #24
    Thank you Jundo. Old habits die hard.
    Al.

  25. #25
    If you could see heart sutra.



    https://www.lionsroar.com/if-you-cou...-heart-sutra/?
    utm_content=buffer10e66&utm_medium=social&utm_sour ce=facebook.com/lionsroarbuddhism&utm_campaign=buffer


    https://parabola.org/2019/07/25/pain...wasaki-tsuneo/

    Gassho
    Sat

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Seishin View Post
    Onka/Ania
    https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...Zv?usp=sharing

    Hopefully the share is working but shout up if you cannot access the files.
    Thank you for these Seishin.

    I have been following this Japanese "Karaoke" version that I found:



    Gassho,
    Phill
    sat

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