I can zazen on a hike. I can zazen on a bike...?

[sreed]

There are no dumb questions right?
Can I zazen on my stationary bike? I find the movement really helps me to silencing the monkey mind chatter. Is this a form of kinhin? What if I'm getting sweaty — does this still "count" as zazen? To really reap the benefits of zazen do I need to be on my cushion all the time?
Gassho
-Sara
ST

[floke]

I saw this and thought it was the Dr Seuss view of Zazen ...

I can Zazen on my bike
I can Zazen where I like!



Gassho,

Steve

sat:today


Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk

[Jundo]

But how do you pedal in the lotus posture?

Kinhin is kinhin (walking), samu is samu (working), biking is biking ... all can be A KIND of Zazen. One can bike without goal, each turn of the pedals the whole universe turning without before or after.

All can be beautiful forms of Zazen, HOWEVER, one should still sit Zazen each day without motion or other activity because there is simple a difference between the feeling of the body in motion and the body still, so not the same ... no.

Gassho, Jundo

STLah

[Bion]

But how do you pedal in the lotus posture?

Kinhin is kinhin (walking), samu is samu (working), biking is biking ... all can be A KIND of Zazen. One can bike without goal, each turn of the pedals the whole universe turning without before or after.

All can be beautiful forms of Zazen, HOWEVER, one should still sit Zazen each day without motion or other activity because there is simple a difference between the feeling of the body in motion and the body still, so not the same ... no.

Gassho, Jundo

STLah

The only “outrageous” “out of the ordinary” zazen I ever sit is when I do it on the bus. It’s a 1 hour ride from home to the city, and sometimes I take advantage. Can’t lotus it but I can SIT it

SatToday lah

[Kokuu]

The only “outrageous” “out of the ordinary” zazen I ever sit is when I do it on the bus

I can Zazen on my bike
I can Zazen where I like!
I can Zazen on my bus
I can Zazen with no fuss!

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday/madeupnonsenserhymeswithfloke!-

[Inshin]

There are no dumb questions right?
Can I zazen on my stationary bike? I find the movement really helps me to silencing the monkey mind chatter. Is this a form of kinhin? What if I'm getting sweaty — does this still "count" as zazen? To really reap the benefits of zazen do I need to be on my cushion all the time?
Gassho
-Sara
ST

Maybe of interest : an interview with Zen Master about Zen and biking
https://granfondo-cycling.com/interv...nerk-polenski/

He comes across a little bit Alan Watts-ey for me.
Gassho
Sat

[Washin]

I can Zazen on my bike
I can Zazen where I like!
I can Zazen on my bus
I can Zazen with no fuss!

Gassho
Kokuu

Cool!

Gassho
Washin
stlah

[Jundo]

Maybe of interest : an interview with Zen Master about Zen and biking
https://granfondo-cycling.com/interv...nerk-polenski/

He comes across a little bit Alan Watts-ey for me.
Gassho
Sat

I do not know this Rinzai teacher, and he says some interesting comments on experiencing "flow" or "being in the zone."

But Zen goes beyond these moments of flow. When this flow happens during a task, it’s called Samadhi in traditional Zen teachings, a state of meditative consciousness when you’re carrying out a movement that you’ve mastered. I have the strength, I have the energy, I have taken this movement to an unconscious level, completely submerged in the totality of the task. But it isn’t the true meaning of Zen. It’s simply an experience that shows me that there’s more to life than the constant entanglement around me. There’s more than stress, worries and my terraced house. There’s something inside me – as I just experienced – and it’s not something to which I can even give a name. ... Unfortunately many athletes call it a day with flow, saying: ‘Yes, that’s why I run, that’s why I ride a bike, that’s why I do this or that.’ But as humans we have the potential to unlock this dimension in our daily lives too. And then it’s no longer flow; it’s awareness. It becomes a transformation that changes your life, leading to a life full of happiness and awareness. Not simply riding as flow, but living a life of flow – with rough edges at times, missed trains, and relationship woes. The ideal Zen is uninterrupted flow. Athletes have this privilege for those moments in which they’re wholly inside the immediacy of the moment. You could call it a spark, but the sense of Zen isn’t simply one spark; it’s thousands, or millions, of these sparks, until they’re all shining in the light at some point. It’s not like a light being switched on [Laughs], but it is, in fact, reality that is illuminated.

Some folks think that Zen is about always feeling "in the zone" or experiencing "flow." I am not sure that the "ideal Zen is uninterrupted flow" if that means always FEELING "in the zone" and experiencing "flow." It is a subtle distinction, but Zen folks can so "Flow with the Flow" that we flow even with being "out of the zone" and not feeling flowy! One might say that it is a kind of universal Big "Z" Zone that holds both feeling "in the zone" or "out of the zone." It is so much "going with the flow" that one is even willing to sometimes have life flow right down the drain! We flow when life is flowing along our way, and we flow even in the turbulent waters when it feels more like drowning or an overflowing toilet than "flow!"

The kind of "flow" that any of us experience sometimes ... in riding a bike or other physical exercise, at those times when our movements feel as graceful as a gazelle ... are lovely, but they are not the only Flow of the Universe which also holds those moments when we fall right off the bike into the mud, or move with all the grace of a hippo with a sprained ankle.

(Sorry, I flowed right into too many sentences)

Gassho, J

STLah

[Bion]

I do not know this Rinzai teacher, and he says some interesting comments on experiencing "flow" or "being in the zone."



Some folks think that Zen is about always feeling "in the zone" or experiencing "flow." I am not sure that the "ideal Zen is uninterrupted flow" if that means always FEELING "in the zone" and experiencing "flow." It is a subtle distinction, but Zen folks can so "Flow with the Flow" that we flow even with being "out of the zone" and not feeling flowy! One might say that it is a kind of universal Big "Z" Zone that holds both feeling "in the zone" or "out of the zone." It is so much "going with the flow" that one is even willing to sometimes have life flow right down the drain! We flow when life is flowing along our way, and we flow even in the turbulent waters when it feels more like drowning or an overflowing toilet than "flow!"

The kind of "flow" that any of us experience sometimes ... in riding a bike or other physical exercise, at those times when our movements feel as graceful as a gazelle ... are lovely, but they are not the only Flow of the Universe which also holds those moments when we fall right off the bike into the mud, or move with all the grace of a hippo with a sprained ankle.

(Sorry, I flowed right into too many sentences)

Gassho, J

STLah

So you also think he’s Rinzai? I suspected that because of the book in the photo. I was thrown off first of all by his ideas, then by his rakusu and especially by the various mala beads.

SatToday lah

[Jundo]

So you also think he’s Rinzai? I suspected that because of the book in the photo. I was thrown off first of all by his ideas, then by his rakusu and especially by the various mala beads.

SatToday lah

Also by the fact that I looked up his biography on the internet.

Hinnerk Polenski is a Zen master and abbot of the European Dashin Zen order and the Zen monastery in Buchenberg in the Allgäu. He is an ordained monk and a member of the Hokoji Rinzai Order and the Syoko-ji in Japan. “Syobu” (Japanese for Zen warrior) is his Dharma name, which was given to him in 1992 by Zen master Oi Saidan Roshi. Polenski (born 1959) has been practicing the Zen path for more than 30 years. He is the Dharma successor (Inca) for Dashin-Rinzai-Zen by Reiko Mukai Roshi. Together with his teacher Reiko Mukai, he founded the Daishin Zen line, a Zen school that focuses on the development of a European Zen path. Zen for Leaders is one of three orientations of Daishin Zen.

...

Hinnerk Syobu Polenski has been leading Zen seminars for managers in Germany, Austria, Luxembourg and Switzerland for over 25 years. After more than ten years as a freelance management consultant, he has been devoting himself entirely to Zen training and executive coaching since 1999.

His "Zen Meditation" series, broadcast by Bayerischer Rundfunk and other third ARD programs since 2001, has so far reached millions of viewers, and the DVD of the same name has sold more than 10,000 times. ... In addition to 25 Daishin Zen meditation groups in Germany, Austria and Switzerland, there are now more than 15 Zendos (places of meditation) in German-speaking companies. Hinnerk Polenski supports executives on boards and management boards in their own meditation groups. Several thousand German-speaking managers and leaders meditate regularly, many of whom have been introduced to Zen through the Zen Leadership Academy.
https://zen-kloster.de/lehrer/

But I never heard of him (It is not like we Zen guys automatically know each other. especially, unfortunately, with some language barriers between Europe and North America)

I thought he might be one of the folks (but I don't see him) in this wonderful film on Zen in Europe that was recently introduced here, including my Dharma Sister:

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/show...r-Zen-Practice

Gassho, J

STLah

[Bion]

Also by the fact that I looked up his biography on the internet.



But I never heard of him (It is not like we Zen guys automatically know each other. especially, unfortunately, with some language barriers between Europe and North America)

I thought he might be one of the folks (but I don't see him) in this wonderful film on Zen in Europe that was recently introduced here, including my Dharma Sister:

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/show...r-Zen-Practice

Gassho, J

STLah

I was not that invested, as to go google him
I’ll have a look at that video you shared! Off to sit evening zazen!

SatToday lah

[Inshin]

Also by the fact that I looked up his biography on the internet.



But I never heard of him (It is not like we Zen guys automatically know each other. especially, unfortunately, with some language barriers between Europe and North America)

I thought he might be one of the folks (but I don't see him) in this wonderful film on Zen in Europe that was recently introduced here, including my Dharma Sister:

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/show...r-Zen-Practice

Gassho, J

STLah

I found this movie very interesting. All the Teachers sincerely replying in the simmilar manner, and suddenly there's Master Jion with cold stone face barking at the interviewer. I wasn't sure if it was an act, because he knows that Old Masters replied like that to questions, or if he was coming from a place of understanding (possibly both) - face of an interviewer : priceless

Gassho
Sat

[floke]

I can Zazen on my bike
I can Zazen where I like!
I can Zazen on my bus
I can Zazen with no fuss!

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday/madeupnonsenserhymeswithfloke!-

Gassho
Steve
sat:today

[sreed]

But how do you pedal in the lotus posture?

Kinhin is kinhin (walking), samu is samu (working), biking is biking ... all can be A KIND of Zazen. One can bike without goal, each turn of the pedals the whole universe turning without before or after.

All can be beautiful forms of Zazen, HOWEVER, one should still sit Zazen each day without motion or other activity because there is simple a difference between the feeling of the body in motion and the body still, so not the same ... no.

Gassho, Jundo

STLah

Gassho, Jundo and all


Yes, I was going for a Suessian vibe there.
-Sara
ST

[Seishin]

Interesting topic Sara

Personally I think there are many forms of zazen but sitting is sitting. I frequently log Carzen on Insight Timer, well at least every 28 days when my wife gets her heart check up. Then there is Treadmill Zen (TMZ) which I experience whenever I run (or Wherever I May Roam if Kyonin is reading ) on the ....well you guessed it Treadmill but also on the pavement or tracks. TMZ could be related to runners high and I recall Jundo some time back talking about Nishijima having similar experiences as he was also a runner. For me there is a difference between Runners High and TMZ. The former is like a floating no effort sensation where you could carry on running for kalpas but it last just a few moments. But TMZ is more a thoughtless clear mind type of running, like sitting difficult to explain. I run with variety of tempo playlist and all are pretty hard rock, hence a nudge to our Metallica loving Kyonin but TMZ rises above the music and it becomes running beyond thoughtless thought where I get lost in the physical activity.

Then there is the Zazen of Robert Pirsig (perhaps my first intro to Zen). I have ridden bikes all my live since my mid teens and now mid 60s but there is a special relationship between man (woman) and motorcycle. It is the oneness of all oneness, the absolute absolute of suchness. Its the response to that age old question "why do you ride a motorcycle" if you have to ask, you will never understand why. If Dogen was alive today he would ride. Just be Just ride. As the old Harley marketing machine says " Live To Ride. Ride To Live".

Biker Zazen thank you Robert, thank you Gudo thank you Dogen. Simples

Sat lah

[Meian]

I do on a stationary bike, and during yoga.

Gassho, meian st lh

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[Shinshi]

I am a distance runner (just did my 12th marathon) and will run up to 50 miles a week in training. I find that there is a notable overlap between running and sitting - but they are also different. They are the same in that when you run there are many times when everything drops away. You are just running. Your mind drops away, your evaluations drop away, you and the process are just one thing. You become the run. I think the fact that running is a very rhythmic activity helps, you are breathing in and out and your steps beat out tempo. You flow through the run. I find this particularly true when running trails. You don't think about where you are going or how you are going to navigate the terrain. Your body just sees and does, no time for thought. You just run the trail that is in front of you as it presents itself to you.

Sorry, already too many sentences.

Gassho,

Shinshi

SaT-LaH

[Onka]

I used to be a swimmer, swimming at least 6km per day and the rhythm you get into used to be incredibly peaceful, the only sound being the slapping of water. Without a word of a lie on occasions I felt so relaxed that I felt I could fall asleep distance swimming. Other experiences of being completely present and at one with everything is riding my motorcycle effortlessly finding gaps and lane splitting.
Gassho
Onka
ST/LAH

[Tosei]

I am a distance runner (just did my 12th marathon) and will run up to 50 miles a week in training. I find that there is a notable overlap between running and sitting - but they are also different. They are the same in that when you run there are many times when everything drops away. You are just running. Your mind drops away, your evaluations drop away, you and the process are just one thing. You become the run. I think the fact that running is a very rhythmic activity helps, you are breathing in and out and your steps beat out tempo. You flow through the run. I find this particularly true when running trails. You don't think about where you are going or how you are going to navigate the terrain. Your body just sees and does, no time for thought. You just run the trail that is in front of you as it presents itself to you.

Sorry, already too many sentences.

Gassho,

Shinshi

SaT-LaH

For years I ran ultras and often found as you do, Shinshi, that there’s a lot going on that’s pretty similar to what I experience in sitting. I’ll add a couple more—just for completeness—the times, the many times, where every fibre of your body mind is screaming ‘why am I doing this?’ and, ‘I think I’ll stop/no I won’t/I’m stopping/no I’m not’; or, the mantra ‘don’t need to win/just need to keep moving, hopefully forward, but I’ll take what I can get’, and finally, those days when the mountain trail unrolls beneath you, the smells of sage and grass come and go, the birds dance and dance away, and the sky is an ever-changing kaleidoscope of bright blue and gentle wisps of white cloud, there and gone again. In other words, yeah.

Apologies for meeting the technical standard of three sentences, while so clearly going beyond the spirit.

Gassho,

P

S/t

[Washin]

When I visit the gym (been doing it for the last 15 years) and do my mindful work out
it reminds me of Zazen. There's surely an overlap..and yet they are different.
Similar thing with Tai Chi.

Gassho,
Washin
sat today/LAH

[Jundo]

In fact, my daily exercise bike (I do a stationary bike for about 1 hour 15 minutes a day most days of the week) is my chance to catch up on TV shows (watching the most recent season of "Homeland" now, and recently the "Amazing Mrs. Maizel") and the monologue on America's "Colbert" show, plus "Last Week Tonight," Bill Maher and that kind of thing (I have political views ... just not here! ). It is my chance to play tv watching "couch potato," catch up on "culture" in my former country of the USA, while actually burning some calories!

(I learned years ago that even the big Roshis in the big Zen monasteries often had tv sets for their private time, cause even a Roshi needs to kick back ... but they often kept them discreetly hidden under a nice cloth or something at other times.

The car is the chance to catch up on podcasts (This American Life, RadioLab, Snap Judgement, mostly from the USA, the futurist "Singularity Podcast" from Canada, among my favorites, plus "No Such Thing As A Fish" from the UK, some Buddhist things like the Imperfect Buddha Podcast, Secular Buddhist and such ... not to mention the absolutely AMAZING "the ZEN of EVERYTHING!" featuring Kirk and Jundo! ).

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/foru...ELEAF-Podcasts

There is a time to sit Zazen. A time to watch "Better Call Saul" or "Samantha Bee." All in its time.

(Sorry for running long with my entertainment recommendations).

Gassho, J

STLah

[Yokai]

I know it's outrageous, but I've taken up sewing as a kind of zazen!

Gassho, Chris satlah

[Jundo]

I know it's outrageous, but I've taken up sewing as a kind of zazen!

Gassho, Chris satlah

SHOCKING!

Actually that will be part of the topic tomorrow during Zazenkai of Zen Practice as partly physical embodiment, including our sewing.

September 18th-19th Treeleaf Weekly Zazenkai - Embodiment
https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/show...kai-Embodiment

Gassho, J

STLah

[Kotei]

Running (in that slightly below 50miles a week category), sewing, practicing Shakuhachi and Samu in the large garden is what I find related to Zazen.
Autumn, the 50m3 of wonderfully coloured leaves falling over the next weeks and raking them together instead of using a leaf blower.
Gassho,
Kotei sat/lah today.