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Thread: September 11th-12th Treeleaf Weekly Zazenkai - 消災妙吉祥陀羅尼

  1. #1

    September 11th-12th Treeleaf Weekly Zazenkai - 消災妙吉祥陀羅尼

    Today's Talk will be on the Marvelously Beneficial Disaster Preventing Dharani (Shōsai Myōkichijō darani) common in Soto Zen, and why we generally DO NOT recite it in our Sangha.


    Dear All,

    Please sit our Treeleaf Zazenkai for 90 minutes with Zazen, Heart Sutra and more:

    10am Japan Saturday morning, NY 9pm, LA 6pm Friday night, London 2am and Paris 3am Saturday morning, or any time thereafter here:




    Join live (with or without a camera & microphone) on Zoom at: TREELEAF Now OR at DIRECT ZOOM LINK, password (if needed): dogen

    Gassho, Jundo

    SatTodayLah



    PS - There is no "wrong" or "right" in Zazen ... yet here is a little explanation of the "right" times to Bow (A Koan) ...


    Chant Book is here for those who wish to join in: CHANT BOOK LINK

    The other video I mention on Zendo decorum is this one, from our "Always Beginners" video Series:

    Sit-a-Long with Jundo: Zazen for Beginners (12) - Basic Zendo Decorum At Home
    https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/show...093#post189093
    Last edited by Sekishi; 09-11-2020 at 11:37 PM. Reason: Added youtube link.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  2. #2
    See you all tomorrow.

    Gassho, Jonathon

    SATLah

  3. #3
    I will sit with all of you on Sunday ,
    since working on Friday and Saturday .

    Gassho,
    eva
    sattoday and LAH

  4. #4
    Member Seishin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    La Croix-Avranchin, Basse Normandie, France
    Will sit On Demand as usual

    sat/lah


    Seishin

    Sei - Meticulous
    Shin - Heart

  5. #5
    See you all in a few hours! Can not wait!

    SatToday lah
    Bion
    -------------------------
    When you put Buddha’s activity into practice, only then are you a buddha. When you act like a fool, then you’re a fool. - Sawaki Roshi

  6. #6
    I have to teach Yoga at 530 tomorrow morning, so I will sit this tomorrow after Yoga.

    Gassho,
    Juki

    sat today and lah
    "First you have to give up." Tyler Durden

  7. #7
    I will be joining you all at a later time

    Gassho
    Sat today, lah
    求道芸化 Kyūdō Geika
    I am just a priest-in-training, please do not take anything I say as a teaching.

  8. #8
    I would like to dedicate our sitting today to our Sangha friends and others in Oregon and California who have had to flee their homes in the face of great fires, as well as all sentient beings everywhere who face natural disasters of all kinds around the world today.

    We dedicate our hopes and aspirations:
    To all victims of war and terrorism
    To the injured and to all families touched by these tragedies

    I will also discuss a tradition called the Marvelously Beneficial Disaster Preventing Dharani (Shōsai Myōkichijō darani 消災妙吉祥陀羅尼 or Shōsai shu 消災呪) and why we generally DO NOT chant the same in our Sangha even in the face of disaster and calamities.

    [Chinese]
    No mo san man da moto nan oha ra chi koto sha sono nan ◎ to ji to en gya gya gya ki gya ki un nun shifu ra shifu ra hara shifu ra hara shifu ra chishu sa chishu sa chishu ● ri chishu ri sowa ja sowa ja ● sen chi gya shiri ei so mo ko.
    It is a traditional chant of the Soto Zen temples in Japan and many around the world.


    Gassho, Jundo

    STLah
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  9. #9
    I will be there with the bells

    Gassho
    Jakuden
    SatToday/ LAH


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

  10. #10
    Treeleaf Priest / Engineer Sekishi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Virginia, USA
    See y'all soon!

    Gassho,
    Sekishi #sat
    Sekishi | 石志 | He/him | Better with a grain of salt, but best ignored entirely.

  11. #11
    See you all soon!

    Gassho,
    Rob

    -stlah-


    Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
    聖簡 Seikan (Sacred Simplicity)

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Sekishi View Post
    See y'all soon!

    Gassho,
    Sekishi #sat
    In no time. I’m a bit worried cause last evening I was sitting zazen in the Free Sitting Room and when I was done Zoom had closed already due to some error. I hope it doesn’t happen during zazenkai!

    SatToday lah
    Bion
    -------------------------
    When you put Buddha’s activity into practice, only then are you a buddha. When you act like a fool, then you’re a fool. - Sawaki Roshi

  13. #13
    Hi y'all.

    I will sit the zazenkai later on the Saturday. But of course in effect I'm with you across space and time.

    Gassho

    Neilio

    SAT/LAH

  14. #14
    Must sit this via the video. Thank you to everyone here!

    gassho
    shonin sat today and lah
    Visiting unsui: use salt

  15. #15
    Sorry but, Had to leave early. Thank you all who sat and will sit. And, thank you Jundo for your teaching. It recalls a story of a temple in India. One day someone started to build a Bar right across the road from the temple. The people of the temple were incensed. How dare he open a bar in front of a temple. So they prayed that the bar would not open and wouldn't you know, just the night before the opening there was a great storm. Lightening struck the bar and it burnt to the ground. The Bar owner got himself a lawyer and sued the temple. When the case came to court, he explained that the people of the temple had prayed against the opening of his bar and in resulted in the destruction of his building. The temple people of course agreed that they had prayed but denied that there was any connection. The Judge threw the case out on the grounds of it's strangeness. The bar owner was claiming the power of prayer whereas the people of faith denied prayer worked.

    gassho, Shokai
    stlah
    合掌,生開
    gassho, Shokai

    仁道 生開 / Jindo Shokai

    "Open to life in a benevolent way"

    https://sarushinzendo.wordpress.com/

  16. #16
    Member Yokai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Location
    Havelock North, Hawkes Bay, New Zealand
    Thanks Jundo for a great talk. Thanks Jakuden, and everyone for sharing, now and through the week.
    Nice to share the shaky tea time too!

    Gassho, Chris satlah

  17. #17
    Thank you, Jundo, Jakuden, and everyone. The talk was wonderful even if the dharani didn't work. I hope the quakes in Tsukuba don't get stronger, and I hope all the people in the path of fires find relief.

    Gassho,
    Onkai
    Sat/lah
    美道 Bidou Beautiful Way
    恩海 Onkai Merciful/Kind Ocean

    I have a lot to learn; take anything I say that sounds like teaching with a grain of salt.

  18. #18
    As always, a joy seeing you all and sitting with you! Thank you Jundo for that talk and for chanting for us and Jakuden for the bells and chanting us through!

    SatToday lah
    Bion
    -------------------------
    When you put Buddha’s activity into practice, only then are you a buddha. When you act like a fool, then you’re a fool. - Sawaki Roshi

  19. #19
    Thank you Jundo, Jakuden and everyone for sitting together.
    It was a lovely Dharani chanting, Jundo

    Gassho,
    Washin
    sattoday
    Kaidō (皆道) Every Way
    Washin (和信) Harmony Trust
    ----
    I am a novice priest-in-training. Anything that I say must not be considered as teaching
    and should be taken with a 'grain of salt'.

  20. #20


    Doshin
    St

  21. #21
    Glad to sit with you all this morning.

    Gassho,

    Nanrin

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Shōnin Risa Bear View Post
    Must sit this via the video. Thank you to everyone here!

    gassho
    shonin sat today and lah
    Your situation inspired today's sitting, dedicated to you and others in such circumstances.

    Gassho, J

    STLah
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  23. #23
    Thank you Jundo, Jakuden and all for sharing in practice together today.

    Jundo, I wouldn't count the Dharani out just yet. I liken it to that odd light switch in one's home that doesn't seem to control anything when flipped, but there's probably a person a few towns over that wonders why their lights keep turning off and on.

    On a serious note, I also sincerely hope for a quick and safe resolution to the wildfire situation out west. Until things subside, I will dedicate my practice to Shonin and everyone affected by the fires in some way.

    Gassho,
    Rob

    -stlah-

  24. #24
    Member Onka's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Rural Queensland, so-called Australia
    That talk resonated.
    Gassho
    Onka
    Sat
    穏 On (Calm)
    火 Ka (Fires)
    They/She.

  25. #25
    Thank you for introducing the Dharani. I wonder though if forbidding its use might be an overcorrection. While I certainly don't think it will directly weaken the fires or prevent new ones, it might help reduce some anxiety, or bring a little peace of mind. I spent many years studying the psychology of ritual and "magical" incantation and the like, and while they don't change reality, they are quite effective at changing people's mindsets, and if you change your mindset, you change your reality. If chanting the Dharani helps you set your intention that calamity won't get the best of you, then your mind will be fortified so that when calamity strikes you're more able to deal with it. Like your favorite lucky charm, even if you know it's not really lucky, having it with you can change your mindset enough to make life just a little easier. My two cents and more than three sentences.

    Gassho
    Kyōshin
    Satlah

    Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyoshin View Post
    Thank you for introducing the Dharani. I wonder though if forbidding its use might be an overcorrection. While I certainly don't think it will directly weaken the fires or prevent new ones, it might help reduce some anxiety, or bring a little peace of mind. I spent many years studying the psychology of ritual and "magical" incantation and the like, and while they don't change reality, they are quite effective at changing people's mindsets, and if you change your mindset, you change your reality. If chanting the Dharani helps you set your intention that calamity won't get the best of you, then your mind will be fortified so that when calamity strikes you're more able to deal with it. Like your favorite lucky charm, even if you know it's not really lucky, having it with you can change your mindset enough to make life just a little easier. My two cents and more than three sentences.

    Gassho
    Kyōshin
    Satlah
    My personal opinion is that superstition, magical hocum and such does more harm than good. We can see that today in this world where scientists and the sane have to fight for equal ground with folks selling crystals, making bogus medical claims, selling fortune telling, decrying conspiracies in which vaccines contain the devil.

    Yes, there might be some psychological benefits, but the harms caused by ignorance and old wives tales far outweigh the benefits.

    Anyone can choose to chant what they wish on their own time, but ignorance and superstition have no place in this Zen Sangha or on the lips of its priests, and the list of hocus-pocus and hooey starts with Dharani.

    A bit long, pardon.

    Gassho, Jundo

    STLAH
    Last edited by Jundo; 09-12-2020 at 08:13 AM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    My personal opinion is that superstition, magical hocum and such does more harm than good. We can see that today in this world where scientists and the sane have to fight for equal ground with folks selling crystals, making bogus medical claims, selling fortune telling, decrying conspiracies in which vaccines contain the devil.

    Yes, there might be some psychological benefits, but the harms caused by ignorance and old wives tales far outweigh the benefits.

    Anyone can choose to chant what they wish on their own time, but ignorance and superstition have no place in this Zen Sangha or on the lips of its priests, and the list of hocus-pocus and hooey starts with Dharani.

    A bit long, pardon.

    Gassho, Jundo

    STLAH
    I’ve been with all of you for maybe a month now and I came in being unfamiliar with how you practiced here yet what I found was a practice that reflected mine. I remember years back when I was finding my way in the world of Zen, separating myself from my christian background, I got a copy of the Soto Scriptures For Daily Practice and while studying all the different chants and sutras and verses and dharanis I slowly came to create a practice that was personal and felt sincere. I remember taking out certain parts of the dedication of merit, because I did not feel it necessary to mention deities and hungry ghosts and I decided to skip the dharanis as I understood their meaning and background and I felt they had no place in my daily practice. I was actually going to mention that during our tea time after zazenkai this morning. So I am grateful to you Jundo for keeping it real and working to keep the practice sincere!

    SatToday lah
    Bion
    -------------------------
    When you put Buddha’s activity into practice, only then are you a buddha. When you act like a fool, then you’re a fool. - Sawaki Roshi

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by jakeb View Post
    I’ve been with all of you for maybe a month now and I came in being unfamiliar with how you practiced here yet what I found was a practice that reflected mine. I remember years back when I was finding my way in the world of Zen, separating myself from my christian background, I got a copy of the Soto Scriptures For Daily Practice and while studying all the different chants and sutras and verses and dharanis I slowly came to create a practice that was personal and felt sincere. I remember taking out certain parts of the dedication of merit, because I did not feel it necessary to mention deities and hungry ghosts and I decided to skip the dharanis as I understood their meaning and background and I felt they had no place in my daily practice. I was actually going to mention that during our tea time after zazenkai this morning. So I am grateful to you Jundo for keeping it real and working to keep the practice sincere!

    SatToday lah
    Ya know, there are plenty of other groups and teachers in the Buddhist and Zen world offering all the bells and whistles of magic and wild claims ... and if somebody wants that, they can go there, easy to find. Here, try this guy ...

    Tulku Buddha Maitreya, the Reincarnation of Christ, designs and creates all of the Monastic Meditation Tools and transmits His meditation blessings thru these tools, along with His pujas that He personally performed for Soul Therapy Meditation music.
    https://www.shambhalahealingtools.com/Default.asp

    We just are trying to offer a contrast here for those who want something a bit more "down to earth."

    My attitude, by the way, has gotten me kicked off a few conservative Buddhist websites and forums where my skepticism on the literal truth of some doctrines is not welcome by the believers.

    Gassho, J

    STLah
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  29. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    Ya know, there are plenty of other groups and teachers in the Buddhist and Zen world offering all the bells and whistles of magic and wild claims ... and if somebody wants that, they can go there, easy to find. Here, try this guy ...



    https://www.shambhalahealingtools.com/Default.asp

    We just are trying to offer a contrast here for those who want something a bit more "down to earth."

    My attitude, by the way, has gotten me kicked off a few conservative Buddhist websites and forums where my skepticism on the literal truth of some doctrines is not welcome by the believers.

    Gassho, J

    STLah
    I am not surprised at all bu that last phrase pf yours. There is zero consensus on various topics even within the same buddhist school.
    I remember feeling very impressed with the Dalai Lama once, cause in an interview or talk he said he himself was very skeptical about various topics such as super powers, the idea of reincarnation as a literal thing, magical healing etc. There is much mixture of beliefs and superstitions within Buddhism, but I always say Buddhism is like water.. it takes the shape of the recipient it’s in: in Japan it mixed with Shinto and now Kami-sama protects temples, in China is drew from Taoism, in Tibet from Bön... It’s only natural it takes a different form in the western world!

    Sorry about the extra sentences! Going back to my rakusu now

    SatToday lah
    Bion
    -------------------------
    When you put Buddha’s activity into practice, only then are you a buddha. When you act like a fool, then you’re a fool. - Sawaki Roshi

  30. #30
    I sat with the recording, thank you everybody for your effort and stay safe.

    Jundo, I have a question about your teaching, and I'm sorry because I know I will write a bit more than three sentences. I appreciated the teaching and I think it is a good approach but then, why chanting the dedication? Isn't it a bit "abracadra" as well? Personally, I don't mind a bit of abracadra and magic in life, and I explain myself. I am the person who keeps crystals and read tarots, do I really believe in them? Well, not really, the stones and crystals are reminders of the targets I want to reach, some people keep dream/target boards, I'm not that crafty, so I have a beautiful crystal that my wife gave me that supposedly should help creativity. I don't believe it does, but it reminds me to sit down and be creative, write my stories. I read tarots (almost exclusively for myself) but I have always treated them like a means to explore my mind and unleash creativity. At times, I have found answers to my questions, but I know that the answers come from my mind, not an external power present in the tarots. Perhaps for some people dharanis would work in the same way, like Kyoshin was saying?

  31. #31
    Thank you, Jundo. Thank you, Sangha.

    gassho,
    Juki

    Sat today and lah
    "First you have to give up." Tyler Durden

  32. #32
    Thank you for the teaching Jundo, and for the efforts of everyone involved to make these Zazenkai the special events that they are.

    Gassho,

    Joshua
    SatToday

    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Bokucho; 09-12-2020 at 01:52 PM.

  33. #33
    Thank you everyone. I sat with you this morning.

    That was an interesting talk Jundo. Ultimately I am a down to earth kind of guy too. I think I’d feel uncomfortable if the teaching here had too much of a mystical element.

    My apologies for the extra sentences.


    Tairin
    Sat today and lah
    泰林 - Tai Rin - Peaceful Woods

  34. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    My personal opinion is that superstition, magical hocum and such does more harm than good. We can see that today in this world where scientists and the sane have to fight for equal ground with folks selling crystals, making bogus medical claims, selling fortune telling, decrying conspiracies in which vaccines contain the devil.

    Gassho, Jundo

    STLAH

    This is my grief, my concern of the future for my grandson. It defines my retreat from social media, more time spent alone in the desert and mountains. Six decades of resistance wore me down.

    Doshin
    St

  35. #35
    It was lovely to join you all last night at the end of a looong couple of weeks. Thank you Jakuden and Jundo, thank you sangha

    One of the things that led me to the path that brought me to zen was a personal paradigm shift away from superstition, so I can see where you are coming from.

    May all that are dealing with the fires find coolness and calm within in the midst of these difficult times.

    Gassho,

    Ryan S.
    Sat Today

  36. #36
    I'll sit late in the evening today. Alongside the victims of Oregon and California fires I'll also dedicate my practice to the the refugees of Moira camp in Greece (the biggest in Europe) that burned down recently and thousands of people are forced on the streets.

    Gassho

  37. #37
    Your situation inspired today's sitting
    Thanks so much Jundo; we spent two nights at Daughter's but the 156,000 acre fire has slowed and crews are finally able to get near it and start fire lines. So we're back at the house for now. Smoke is unreal, about 450 AQI, should start to clear by Tuesday.

    Screen Shot 2020-09-12 at 9.01.34 AM.jpg

    Gassho
    shonin sat today and some online lah
    Visiting unsui: use salt

  38. #38
    I sat with the recorded Zazenkai. Thanks Jundo, Jakuden and everyone. I hope you remain safe Shonin. We had terrible fires here on the East Coast of Australia early this year and my parents' and my sister's houses were threatened but saved so I know how worrying it is.

    When I was with the Diamond Sangha, we chanted Sho Sai Myo Kichijo Darani though I don't remember anyone ever explaining why. I too would be very sceptical of it having any magical power though I do think the Sangha chanting together has some psychological value. Perhaps the technology will allow it some day.

    Gassho,
    Mark.

    Sat today and lah
    Last edited by Kenku; 09-13-2020 at 01:38 AM.

  39. #39
    Just sat with the recorded zazenkai. Hope everyone affected by the fires remains safe. The talk reminded me that practice is not about dismissing our daily problems as delusions, but accepting them as whatever it is they actually are, then proceeding to do something about them.

    Gassho,
    Kenny
    Sat Today

  40. #40
    Member Seishin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    La Croix-Avranchin, Basse Normandie, France
    Sat on demand the last two mornings, thank you everyone.

    sat


    Seishin

    Sei - Meticulous
    Shin - Heart

  41. #41
    Sat this morning. Thank you all. Abracadabra, let the fury of the fires recede.

    Gassho,

    Peter
    東西 - Tōsei - East West
    there is only what is, and it is all miraculous

  42. #42
    Lovely! Thank you all!

    Gassho
    Kokuu

  43. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Shōnin Risa Bear View Post
    Thanks so much Jundo; we spent two nights at Daughter's but the 156,000 acre fire has slowed and crews are finally able to get near it and start fire lines. So we're back at the house for now. Smoke is unreal, about 450 AQI, should start to clear by Tuesday.

    Screen Shot 2020-09-12 at 9.01.34 AM.jpg

    Gassho
    shonin sat today and some online lah
    You and everyone in the "fire zone" are still very much in my thoughts and Metta chanting, dear Shonin. Stay safe.

    Gassho,
    Jakuden
    SatToday

  44. #44
    Thank you everyone... May we be gentle and kind even as we fight with all our might to put out the fires!

    Gassho
    Tom

    Sat

  45. #45
    Have sat with you all across space and time, thanks for the session! The talk was great, and love the phrase 'someone who winks at the gods', it sounds like the sort of thing a mythical Greek hero would do. That's us Jundo and the Argonauts!
    Gassho

    Neilio
    SAT/LAH

  46. #46
    Thank you, Treeleaf, for Zazenkai, and thank you for this insightful Dharma Talk. I love tradition wholeheartedly, but at the same time, the world could benefit from more waking to this "down to earth."

    Gassho,
    Mui
    Sat/LAH
    無依 Mui
    "Relies on Nothing"

  47. #47
    Sat the Zazenkai. Thank you Jundo for taking a stand for science, yet keeping your heart open for all beings who suffer. May you all have a wonderful week.

    Gassho, Tomás
    Sat

  48. #48
    Thank you for posting weekly Zazenkai. Couldn't sit on Sat due to prior commitments, but really appreciate experience in retrospect.

    Gassho,
    Brett.
    Sat Today.

  49. #49
    Thank you

    Gassho

    Risho
    -stlah

  50. #50


    Gassho
    Kyōsen
    Sat|LAH
    橋川
    kyō (bridge) | sen (river)

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