Clothes for Zazen

[Onkai]

I was wondering where I could find an online store for clothes appropriate for lay practitioners. I've been wearing jeans that are binding and I don't think I am breathing from my abdomen. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thank you.

Gassho,
Onkai
Sat/lah

[threethirty]

I do it in my undies.

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[gaurdianaq]

I'd say whatever is comfortable, I'm partial to shorts when it's warm, and sweat pants when it's not (if you like jeans carpenter cut jeans tend to be looser fitting so those might work as well)

Or as threethirty said (sorry don't know your name), could do it in your underwear as well if that's more comfortable. I guess that doesn't directly answer the question of recommendations for stores, but wherever sells comfy clothing, most places I could recommend would be Canadian though (Old Navy, The Gap, Winners... Guess you could order from Walmart, but they seem like an icky company to support)

Sorry went a bit over.


Evan,
Sat today, lah

[Meian]

I live in yoga-style pants and t-shirts.

I do shop online -- I buy pants from one online store only, every few years or so (after I've worn holes in them).

Gassho, meian st lh

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[Junkyo]

I was wondering where I could find an online store for clothes appropriate for lay practitioners. I've been wearing jeans that are binding and I don't think I am breathing from my abdomen. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thank you.

Gassho,
Onkai
Sat/lah

www.stillsitting.com has some nice samu-e and are a reliable company to deal with. I am sure there are others as well.

Gassho,

Junkyo
SAT

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[Shoka]

I was wondering where I could find an online store for clothes appropriate for lay practitioners. I've been wearing jeans that are binding and I don't think I am breathing from my abdomen. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thank you.

Gassho,
Onkai
Sat/lah

Onkai,

Personally I usually sit in yoga pants. I get them from target because they are fairly cheap and last a long time. But I wear yoga pants and leggings a lot, so I have them for others things as well. But I do have a set that has become my default sitting pants when I'm doing zazenkais or sitting with others.

If you want something more traditional there are a few places that are ran by practitioners or zen groups so purchases help support their activities:

Zen Mountian Monastery Store:
https://monasterystore.org/collectio...ation-clothing

They have Thai fisherman's pants that they have laypractioners wear


Zabu Zabu:
http://www.zabuzabu.net/

Liz studied zen sewing in Japanese monasteries, and sells samu sets, tops and pants. Several of the Unsui have robes from her.


Zen Stitchery:
https://zenstitchery.com/

Yuko is in Los Angeles and the sewing supports a local zen group, several Unsui also have robes from her. They have sitting pants and samuegi sets.


These are all great people to support; but there really isn't any need to buy anything beyond a simple comfortable pair of pants. Cotton or linen pants with a stretchy waist will be far more comfortable than jeans. I often do short sits in jeans when I'm too lazy to change.


Gassho,

Shoka
sat

[gaurdianaq]

Zen Mountian Monastery Store:
https://monasterystore.org/collectio...ation-clothing


Gassho,

Shoka
sat

Thank you for sharing this, been thinking I wanted to set up an altar and wanted to get a few things for it... but didn't know where else I could get some of this stuff that wasn't amazon... Wonder if there are any canadian stores that are similar.


Evan,
Sat today, lah

[Shoka]

Thank you for sharing this, been thinking I wanted to set up an altar and wanted to get a few things for it... but didn't know where else I could get some of this stuff that wasn't amazon... Wonder if there are any canadian stores that are similar.


Evan,
Sat today, lah

Evan,

Just like with clothing, there isn't really a need to buy much special for altars.

Here is an old thread where many members over the years shared pictures of their home altars:

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/show...light=butsudan

There are many that are very simple and just used things from home or that had personal significance to them.

Gassho,
Shoka
sat

[Onkai]

Thank you all for your suggestions. Looking up yoga pants I found some jogger's pants that look comfortable. My mother gave me some sweat pants that aren't too tight but are warm for this season. I appreciate your help.

Gassho,
Onkai
Sat/lah

[gaurdianaq]

Evan,

Just like with clothing, there isn't really a need to buy much special for altars.

Here is an old thread where many members over the years shared pictures of their home altars:

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/show...light=butsudan

There are many that are very simple and just used things from home or that had personal significance to them.

Gassho,
Shoka
sat

Might not be necessary, but still something I'd like to do.


Evan,
Sat today, lah

[Meitou]

Onkai I also use jogging pants or leggings, and a loose t shirt, usually in dark colours - I also have a samu type jacket and pants that I found on Amazon. I'm quite formal in my practice, even if no-one else is looking, and definitely wouldn't sit in underwear. I remember the very first time I sat in the FSR, I had to share it with someone, I never found out who he was, in a pair of short shorts and nothing else, ugh, it was months before I went back!
Thanks Shoka for the links.
Gassho
Meitou satlah

[Jundo]

Any clean, comfortable, non-restricting clothes are fine, suited to the temperature, such as loose sweat pants in winter or big legged linen pants of some kind in summer (ever shorts in the privacy of your home is fine, although usually not acceptable in groups and somewhat more formal settings), typically solid and dark/neutral colors avoiding bright colors and busy patterns.

It does not have to be "official" lay robes or the like unless, for some reason, someone finds that it serves as some kind of reminder to the heart of that this moment and place of sitting is somehow sacred ... like a Buddha statue and lighting incense. However, strictly speaking every moment and place is sacred.

Gassho, J

STLah

[Kokuu]

Hi Onkai

I find that Thai fisherman's pants are really good and come in many colours, including Soto black! Mine come from various Ebay sellers.

Mostly I just have a black t-shirt on top but you can add a samu jacket for formal occasions and birthdays.

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday (in funky pants!)-

[Seishin]

Like Meitou I also use an old pair of Ron Hill Tracksters (jogging pants) and a loose T, always black. My wardrobe is Johnny Cash black very little colour. These last few evenings I have been doing my additional Ango sit and have worn the jeans I have had on during the day and I have noticed they are more restrictive. So your post is a mindful reminder I should change and sit as I do in the morning.

Shoka thank you for the links, some interesting products. In fact the Samuegi from Zen Stitchery looks just like my old karate Gis and even the most heavy weight competition Gi was a fraction of the price and I am sure they would be equally comfortable for sitting. This has gone up in price since I was last teaching and would be a little too heavy for sitting maybe but suitable for cold winter sits

https://www.blitzsport.com/karate/ka...nd-karate-suit

A light weight Gi like this would be a perfect alternative https://www.blitzsport.com/karate/ka...nt-karate-suit

I now regret giving my old suits to my association when I "retired" from teaching and competition. If anyone should consider taking this route for clothing, I used Blitz for 25 years and used to bulk by clothing and equipment for the school I ran for a good few years. Their products are well made and good quality.

Just a thought.

Sat/lah

[Meitou]

I also like Johnny Cash Black! I seem to remember when this subject came up in the past, that someone suggested medical scrubs, which also come in JCBlack, and are suitably loose, plain and very economical.
https://www.amazon.com/Sivvan-Unisex...%2C581&sr=8-28
Amazon also has samue for around $60, full disclosure though, the mens largest size only just fit me!
Gassho
Meitou
sattoday lah

[Onkai]

I also like Johnny Cash Black! I seem to remember when this subject came up in the past, that someone suggested medical scrubs, which also come in JCBlack, and are suitably loose, plain and very economical.
https://www.amazon.com/Sivvan-Unisex...%2C581&sr=8-28
Amazon also has samue for around $60, full disclosure though, the mens largest size only just fit me!
Gassho
Meitou
sattoday lah

Thank you, Meitou, for the information and link. I'm going to try both the Samue (for winter) and the scrubs (for warmer weather). They look like what I was hoping for. Thank you all for your ideas. I'm looking forward to more comfortable zazen.

Gassho,
Onkai
Sat/lah

[Jundo]

Amazon also has samue for around $60, full disclosure though, the mens largest size only just fit me!

Just a footnote that, in Japan, "Samue" with pants bottom are not typically clothes for sitting Zazen, especially for priests, although I have seen times when some lay people might. They are work clothes for, for example, cleaning the temple (the name means "clothes for work/samu"). I sometimes where a kind of Samue for our Treeleaf Zazenkai, but I am definitely being a bit Western. It is maybe more common to see Japanese lay people, men and women, sitting in a kind of "Hakama" which is more of a long, divided skirt-like lower half, a little different from what is worn for Aikido but similar.

[


The Zazen robes for lay folks can be quite skirt-like too ...



Gassho, J

STLah

[Naiko]

Thank you for asking this question, Onkai, and thank you to all for your helpful suggestions. As the weather grows cooler I too will need comfortable long pants. Does anyone know if there are sewing patterns available for samue? Would this do for the top? https://www.folkwear.com/products/ja...30918199050306
Gassho,
Krista
st/lah
Sorry for running long.

[Onkai]

Just a footnote that, in Japan, "Samue" with pants bottom are not typically clothes for sitting Zazen, especially for priests, although I have seen times when some lay people might. They are work clothes for, for example, cleaning the temple (the name means "clothes for work/samu"). I sometimes where a kind of Samue for our Treeleaf Zazenkai, but I am definitely being a bit Western. It is maybe more common to see Japanese lay people, men and women, sitting in a kind of "Hakama" which is more of a long, divided skirt-like lower half, a little different from what is worn for Aikido but similar.

[


The Zazen robes for lay folks can be quite skirt-like too ...



Gassho, J

STLah

Thank you, Jundo. Some teachers at The Village Zendo in New York City wore clothes like yours and I thought maybe they were only for sensei's and roshi's wear. Those skirted robes look complicated.

Gassho,
Onkai
Sat/lah

[A.J.]

A lot of folks have said it already but I prefer to keep it simple with sweats or shorts. Other than looseness no need for anything special.

Gassho,

Andrew,

Satlah

[Geika]

I have often sat in jeans, but this is not recommended! Not bad for seiza on the fly, though.

Gassho
Sat today, lah

[Kyoshin]

I actually wear my work slacks. Normal pants such as jeans and chinos with a little bit of stretch material (97% cotton and 3% spandex, for example) are becoming increasingly popular and easy to find in many clothing stores. I can sit very comfortably in them, even when I'm in full "professional" dress to go to work.

Gassho
Kyōshin
Satlah

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[Seishin]

Gassho, J

STLah

Thank you Jundo for bringing back some wonderful memories. I could have done with that How To Wear set of diagrams 25 years ago. My beloved Hakama is the one piece of my MA clothing I kept. As a traditional Karate Association we were expected to wear the Hakama for Iaijutsu, Iaido and Kobujutsu and I recall it was an art dropping into sieza to bow, numerous times during a training session. The sitting was the easy part, getting back up into Musubidachi needed a health and safety warning And wearing one for Iaido produced some comical moments but we fortunately used bokken for training.

sat/lah

[Jundo]

Thank you Jundo for bringing back some wonderful memories. I could have done with that How To Wear set of diagrams 25 years ago. My beloved Hakama is the one piece of my MA clothing I kept. As a traditional Karate Association we were expected to wear the Hakama for Iaijutsu, Iaido and Kobujutsu and I recall it was an art dropping into sieza to bow, numerous times during a training session. The sitting was the easy part, getting back up into Musubidachi needed a health and safety warning And wearing one for Iaido produced some comical moments but we fortunately used bokken for training.

sat/lah

Another aspect of Hakama, as well as lay and priestly robes that people sometimes neglect (I must confess that I am sometimes a bit too "just hang it up" than I should be) is the time and procedure of folding, its own beautiful ritual ...

This is worth watching, as an area where "what is just Japanese culture" and "what is Zen culture" is hard to separate ...



Gassho, J

STLah

[Seishin]

Another aspect of Hakama, as well as lay and priestly robes that people sometimes neglect (I must confess that I am sometimes a bit too "just hang it up" than I should be) is the time and procedure of folding, its own beautiful ritual ...

This is worth watching, as an area where "what is just Japanese culture" and "what is Zen culture" is hard to separate ...



Gassho, J

STLah

Beautiful.

The first part was oh so familiar as we were taught to folder our Gi jackets exactly like that and something similar for the bottoms. However, I was never shown how to fold the Hakama and we were advised to use one of the trouser hangers with the two sprung grips. This puts me to shame, as my Hakama is hanging in the loft with some of my old bike leathers and waterproofs and bits of hiking gear that's not seen the light of day for a decade ! I must admit the black "outfit" you sometimes wear for Zazenkai always reminds me of my old Gis and I regret giving them up.

Thank you for sharing.

Sat/lah

[Koki]

I have a robe I wear. I also have a gi and a samue.
I use the robes for more formal sitting, the samue for everyday, and the gi in the dojo.

��
Koki
Satoday

[Meitou]

Another aspect of Hakama, as well as lay and priestly robes that people sometimes neglect (I must confess that I am sometimes a bit too "just hang it up" than I should be) is the time and procedure of folding, its own beautiful ritual ...

This is worth watching, as an area where "what is just Japanese culture" and "what is Zen culture" is hard to separate ...



Gassho, J

STLah

Why is watching something like this so satisfying and fulfilling?!. It's a meditation in itself.
Gassho
Meitou
Sattoday lah

[Tai Shi]

I found dark brown peach skin lay robe Japanese Zen for less than $35 . I cannot sew looks good to me. Something I can think about.
Gassho
sat
Tai Shi

[Kendrick]

I typically sit in gym shorts or loose lounge pants. Sometimes I drape a meditation shawl around me as well.

Gassho
Kendrick
Sat

[Jundo]

If someone is going to acquire "Lay Robes," they are very similar to a priest's "Koromo" (the black, long sleeved robes worn under the Kesa).



Again, as far as I am concerned, there is -not- particular reason to wear such robes unless ... like an incense, a statue ... they help the heart somehow to recognize the sacred moment. However, if you are going to have such a robe, the art of folding the robe (just like folding the Hakama above) is itself "Zazen in motion," care and mindfulness, an excellent practice that I might recommend. A Soto priest (he is the "mystery priest" online, as he is always wearing a mask long before Covid to keep anonymous) demonstrates careful folding of the priest's Koromo, but basically the same (this is not black, but even priests in their temple have a little fashion and color sometimes ):



(Sorry, ran long like those sleeves!)

Gassho, J

STLah

[Meian]

I have always been in awe of these robes, which is probably why I won't consider them as a lay practitioner. They feel off-limits to me. Speaking for myself only.

Gassho, meian st lh

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[Jundo]

I have always been in awe of these robes, which is probably why I won't consider them as a lay practitioner. They feel off-limits to me. Speaking for myself only.

Gassho, meian st lh

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Well, no, that is going to the other extreme.

Nishijima Roshi always held the Kesa (or "Kashaya," the top robe over one shoulder) in honor as a symbol encompassing the Dharma and all reality! But he basically referred to the Chinese style long sleeve robes as "dressing up like Ancient Chinese aristocrats for Halloween"

So, sometimes he wore then ...



... and sometimes not (and he explains why here) ...



Gassho, J

STLah

[Meian]

Thank you, Jundo.

Gassho2, meian st lh

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