Kōshō Uchiyama and Randomness

[Tai Shi]

Hi Ania, thank you for this clarification. For nearly a year when I was 19 I lived and worked in Europe (Germany) where beer is taken with two meals a day from the time when clean water was scarce. So, the custom remains.
Gassho
sat / lah
Tai Shi


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[Inshin]

Yes, but still, the change in my attitude do not fix the tire ... I still needed to get dirty, get the jack and do that. Our change in attitude sometimes changes the people, but sometimes not (I myself dealt with two difficult friends here in Japan yesterday that I cannot change them no matter my attitude, so I must keep some distance). However, we do have some ability to change how we react to the difficult situations between our ears.

One more example: When I had my cancer, I was pretty miserable and lonely one day in the hospital bed. Then, I decided to "Shikantaza" the experience and feel equanimity. Then, I even dried to feel "at home" in my bed, as if it was the best place in the world to be. I even experimented with "toggling" the switch between all three settings ... and I could! .... miserable ... at peace ... happy ... miserable ... at peace ... happy ... miserable ... at peace ... happy ...

It did not change the objective situation one bit, but it changed everything!!

Thank you Jundo - I think this teaching is key really. 'Toggling the switch' is a great metaphor that can really play out in the relative world as regards how we respond to challenges. There's some interesting work in Neuroscience that's applying practical methods to how we can work on our responses (Stephen Porges - Polyvagal theory) that fits with this.

Gassho

Jinyo

Sat today

Thank you Jinyo for mentioning this, I'll check it out! As a new member of this Sangha and a newbie to Zen I find all of the members very inspiring, there's so much intersting stuff to find here! I find it fascinating to read scientific discoveries/theories that correlate with Dharma. I have just came across David Bohm "Wholeness and the implicate order" and his other two books with J. Krishnamurti "The end of time" and "The limits of Thought". Although tempted to dip into reading, I'm keeping it for after Ango : Shikantanza first - my head is already full of ideas and "discoveries".
Gassho
Sat

[Inshin]

Hi Ania, thank you for this clarification. For nearly a year when I was 19 I lived and worked in Europe (Germany) where beer is taken with two meals a day from the time when clean water was scarce. Try he custom remains.
Gassho
sat / lah
Tai Shi


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That's interesting! Now I know where the saying "drink beer save water" comes from
I didn't intend a deeper meaning in the beer glass, I've mentioned it just as an example, it could have been anything else seemingly random!
Gassho
Sat

[gaurdianaq]

Things are as they are in suchness, form is emptiness, emptiness is form and we know that samsara is a delusion, fixation of something that is impermanent, but How dose it happen, how this dualism/division happens : is it in the process of relating to the form within emptiness?
Gassho
Sat

There is a really interesting book I read recently that talks about this, it's called "No Self, No Problem" https://www.amazon.ca/No-Self-Proble...s%2C167&sr=8-1

One of the things the book mentions is the differences between the left and right brain (and how the left brain, which is associated with language processing, creates all these distinctions that separates this from that, me from you). The book covers some interesting cases where they talk about split brain patients (peoples who's left and right brains have been disconnected and can't communicate with each other), and how the left brain will completely ignore reality to come up with reasons that make sense. (They showed the right brain in these patients a set of instructions, that said laugh) and then asked the left brain why they laughed and it came up with a completely unrelated reason without hesitation.

To clarify, the left brain controls the right eye, and the right brain controls the left eye, so they could distinguish between these two by having someone close one eye so that only the right or left brain would process the image, and the left brain is responsible for processing language, so vocal questions would get processed by the left brain. At least, assuming my understanding is correct. Normally the two sides of the brain communicate with each other, but these split brain patients offered a unique opportunity to study the different sides of the brain.

Apologies for going over 3 sentences.


Evan,
Sat today, lah

[gaurdianaq]

Also thank you Ania for the book inspirations (David Bohm, Steven Porges) both sound fascinating!


Evan,
Sat today, lah

[Ryumon]

The right/left brain stuff has been debunked. There are some brain processes that are lateralized, but not many.


https://www.britannica.com/story/are...brained-people

Gassho,

Kirk

Sat

[Jinyo]

Thank you Jinyo for mentioning this, I'll check it out! As a new member of this Sangha and a newbie to Zen I find all of the members very inspiring, there's so much intersting stuff to find here! I find it fascinating to read scientific discoveries/theories that correlate with Dharma. I have just came across David Bohm "Wholeness and the implicate order" and his other two books with J. Krishnamurti "The end of time" and "The limits of Thought". Although tempted to dip into reading, I'm keeping it for after Ango : Shikantanza first - my head is already full of ideas and "discoveries".
Gassho
Sat

Hello Ania,
I came across the David Bohm/Krishnamurti connection recently too. It is interesting and I'd like to follow up some time. The trouble is there's so much amazing reading/thoughts/ideas and I often get swamped!!

Gassho

Sat Today

[gaurdianaq]

The right/left brain stuff has been debunked. There are some brain processes that are lateralized, but not many.


https://www.britannica.com/story/are...brained-people

Gassho,

Kirk

Sat

That's not what I was referring to, and in fact that article refers to some of the same science the book I'm talking about references. That article is referring to the idea that you can be "right brained or left brained" and that one side associates with creativity and the other with logical thinking, which yes has been debunked. To quote the article you shared

Generally, the right hemisphere of the brain was found to be more proficient at spatial tasks, while the left side of the brain was found to be the center of language and problem-solving.

Evan,
Sat today, lah

[Jinyo]

There is a really interesting book I read recently that talks about this, it's called "No Self, No Problem" https://www.amazon.ca/No-Self-Proble...s%2C167&sr=8-1

One of the things the book mentions is the differences between the left and right brain (and how the left brain, which is associated with language processing, creates all these distinctions that separates this from that, me from you). The book covers some interesting cases where they talk about split brain patients (peoples who's left and right brains have been disconnected and can't communicate with each other), and how the left brain will completely ignore reality to come up with reasons that make sense. (They showed the right brain in these patients a set of instructions, that said laugh) and then asked the left brain why they laughed and it came up with a completely unrelated reason without hesitation.

To clarify, the left brain controls the right eye, and the right brain controls the left eye, so they could distinguish between these two by having someone close one eye so that only the right or left brain would process the image, and the left brain is responsible for processing language, so vocal questions would get processed by the left brain. At least, assuming my understanding is correct. Normally the two sides of the brain communicate with each other, but these split brain patients offered a unique opportunity to study the different sides of the brain.

Apologies for going over 3 sentences.


Evan,
Sat today, lah

You might be interested in Iain McGilchrist's 'The Master and His Emissary - The Divided Brain and the Making of the Western World'. McGilchrist is a psychiatrist, philosopher and scientist - a remarkable book that's taking me a long time to read as incredible amount of research/thought gone into it and it's quite long! Well worth a read though.

Gassho

Jinyo

Sat Today

[gaurdianaq]

You might be interested in Iain McGilchrist's 'The Master and His Emissary - The Divided Brain and the Making of the Western World'. McGilchrist is a psychiatrist, philosopher and scientist - a remarkable book that's taking me a long time to read as incredible amount of research/thought gone into it and it's quite long! Well worth a read though.

Gassho

Jinyo

Sat Today

Sounds right up my alley, I'll look them up. Thanks!


Evan,
Sat today, lah

[Risho]

oo both those books sound interesting - thank you Jinyo and Evan

Gassho

Risho
-stlah

[Inshin]

"Form is Emptiness
Emptiness is Form" (form is form, emptiness is emptiness) - is samsara created by RELATING to form whithin emptiness?

Could the following be an answer to my question ? :

Shakyamuni Buddha says, “The true Dharma Body of the Buddha Is like empty space. Responding to things, it manifests its form. It is like the moon in water.” - from Realising Genjokoan by Okumura. Quote originates from Konkōmyōkyō (Sutra of Golden Radiance).

When it comes to practice and daily life there is an “empty space” before a thought and a reaction to something arises. I find that there’s a great freedom in that space.

Gassho
Sat

[Kokuu]

When it comes to practice and daily life there is an “empty space” before a thought and a reaction to something arises. I find that there’s a great freedom in that space.

Hi Ania

There is indeed freedom in that space.

However, I would also say that form is fine too. The problem is when we start to compare forms to our ideas of how forms should be, and feeling attachment or aversion, rather than relating to things just as they are and seeing them as what Dōgen calls flowers in space (kuge).

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday-

[Inshin]

Hi Ania

There is indeed freedom in that space.

However, I would also say that form is fine too. The problem is when we start to compare forms to our ideas of how forms should be, and feeling attachment or aversion, rather than relating to things just as they are and seeing them as what Dōgen calls flowers in space (kuge).

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday-

Big part of my practice is to observe and investigate the appearance of attachments and aversion.

relating to things just as they are and seeing them as what Dōgen calls flowers in space (kuge).

Don't we create duality when we relate to things just as they are, in any way even if it's not caused by attachment or aversion?

Gassho
Sat

[Kokuu]

Big part of my practice is to observe and investigate the appearance of attachments and aversion.

How do you find that?

Don't we create duality when we relate to things just as they are, in any way even if it's not caused by attachment or aversion?

The relative world is dualistic, and in everyday life we relate in terms of self and other. However, within that, it is possible to see the greater wholeness in which everything is just as it is, without separation.

However, I must say I mostly experience that on the cushion or in moments of stillness during the day when I remind myself that how things appear is not all there is. Letting all things be as they are, there is just this rather than this and that and the other.

Apologies for going long.

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday-

[Inshin]

How do you find that?

It is a bit like bringing zazen quality to daily situations: noticing the desire to buy something arising, let it be let it go, not buy anything. Noticing anger arising, letting it be, let it go, making a cup of tea instead of engaging in an argument, etc. Even if decided to have an argument it is a conscious choice rather than a habitual reaction, which significantly changes the perspective .

Gassho
Sat

[Kokuu]

It is a bit like bringing zazen quality to daily situations: noticing the desire to buy something arising, let it be let it go, not buy anything. Noticing anger arising, letting it be, let it go, making a cup of tea instead of engaging in an argument, etc. Even if decided to have an argument it is a conscious choice rather than a habitual reaction, which significantly changes the perspective .

Yes, giving those habitual reactions more space can definitely free us from acting blindly. The form is there but so is the space.

Maybe that is what you were saying from the beginning?

[Tai Shi]

Someday, Kokuu, you will be a very good priest. Stick with the training you are worth it! I know you know Gary Snyder back words AND forwards. So what if I briefly said . Do you know my mentor?” “ who is that?” “ Bill Hotchkiss” “Yes” and he walked briskly by me guarded by two Full Professors. I got to hear a reading and I forgot all that I heard! I was about one year sober and HE was the Zen monk I knew nothing about. You have have taught me, your friend just a guy!
Gassho
sat: lah
Tai shi


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