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Thread: RENAMED: To be such a thing, you must be such a person ...

  1. #1

    RENAMED: To be such a thing, you must be such a person ...

    While listening to a podcast while doing dishes, this quote struck me so I quickly jotted it down... but failed to catch the precise wording and source. I can't remember which podcast episode it was either (I do know it was one of the Zen podcasts I listen to)! Does this seem familiar to anyone?

    To be such a thing, you must be such a person... and what such a person would crave such a thing?
    Gassho,

    Ryan S
    Sat Today
    Last edited by Jundo; 08-10-2020 at 02:54 AM.

  2. #2
    Here you go ...

    The "Fukanzazengi" continues, "If you want to attain suchness, you should practice suchness without delay." This refers to statement by Yunju Daoying or Ungo Doyo, a disciple of Tozan Ryokai or Dongshan. One day Ungo addressed his assembly, saying, "If you want to attain such a thing, you must be such a person. Since you are such a person, why trouble about such a thing?
    Taigen Leighton comments:

    Yunju Daoying said, “If you want to attain such a thing, you should be such a person. Already being such a person, why worry about such a thing?” This is the style of our tradition. He’s talking about this thing we sometimes call suchness. Sometimes we give it other names, such as Buddha nature, or interconnectedness. There are various ways to talk about it. But here in this talk, Dogen is emphasizing the aspect of suchness. This could be translated a little differently: “If you want to attain the matter of suchness, you should be a person of suchness. Already being a person of suchness, why worry about this matter of suchness?”
    https://www.ancientdragon.org/person...n-these-times/
    Gassho, J

    STLah
    Last edited by Jundo; 08-05-2020 at 03:40 PM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  3. #3
    To be such a thing, you must be such a person... and what such a person would crave such a thing?
    I am almost sad it is Dōgen as it sounds like something from Alice in Wonderland!

    “Who are you?” said the Caterpillar.
    This was not an encouraging opening for a conversation. Alice replied, rather shyly, “I—I hardly know, Sir, just at present—at least I know who I was when I got up this morning, but I think I must have been changed several times since then.”
    Gassho
    Kokuu
    -sattoday/lah-
    ------------------------------------
    Feel free to message me if you wish to talk about issues around practicing with physical limitations. This is something I have been sitting with for a fair while and am happy to help with suggestions or just offer a listening ear.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    Here you go ...



    Taigen Leighton comments:



    Gassho, J

    STLah
    Thank you! I was pretty sure it was from something common in zen literature. I haven't read Fukanzazengi just yet. Many of the texts are still so new to me and Google was not being much help in this case

    Gassho,

    Ryan S
    Sat Today
    Last edited by Ryan-S; 08-06-2020 at 01:00 AM.

  5. #5
    One subtle difference in emphasis between Dogen's expression in Fukanzazengi is worth mentioning ...

    The "Fukanzazengi" continues, "If you want to attain suchness, you should practice suchness without delay." This refers to statement by Yunju Daoying or Ungo Doyo, a disciple of Tozan Ryokai or Dongshan. One day Ungo addressed his assembly, saying, "If you want to attain such a thing, you must be such a person. Since you are such a person, why trouble about such a thing?
    Note how Tozan seems to emphasize that, since we are already Buddha, already emptiness, already wholeness, then nothing to worry about, nothing to do. That is true.

    But Dogen's words emphasize that since we are already Buddha, already emptiness, already wholeness, we had better put that fact into practice, and practice suchness right now. We may be Buddha ... but if we don't act like it, dropping away thoughts and emotions of excess desire, anger and divided thinking, sitting Zazen ... we will not manifest that fact, bringing Buddha to life in our life and realizing the wholeness. That is true too!

    So, who is right? Both!

    Practice but without anything to do, keep striving sincerely but without an ounce of worry. Like that.

    Gassho, J

    STLah
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokuu View Post
    I am almost sad it is Dōgen as it sounds like something from Alice in Wonderland!



    Gassho
    Kokuu
    -sattoday/lah-
    Kokuu, that is so true -- and the quote is quite philosophically appropriate

    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    One subtle difference in emphasis between Dogen's expression in Fukanzazengi is worth mentioning ...



    Note how Tozan seems to emphasize that, since we are already Buddha, already emptiness, already wholeness, then nothing to worry about, nothing to do. That is true.

    But Dogen's words emphasize that since we are already Buddha, already emptiness, already wholeness, we had better put that fact into practice, and practice suchness right now. We may be Buddha ... but if we don't act like it, dropping away thoughts and emotions of excess desire, anger and divided thinking, sitting Zazen ... we will not manifest that fact, bringing Buddha to life in our life and realizing the wholeness. That is true too!

    So, who is right? Both!

    Practice but without anything to do, keep striving sincerely but without an ounce of worry. Like that.

    Gassho, J

    STLah
    Thank you for taking the time to add this, Jundo This is excellent. I was looking this up because I sort of needed the meaning of it right now -- much appreciated.

    Gassho,

    Ryan
    Sat Today

  7. #7
    It's a lovely excerpt.

    Gassho
    Sat today, lah
    求道芸化 Kyudo Geika
    I am just a priest-in-training, please do not take anything I say as a teaching.

  8. #8
    I have one sacred sentence for this thread: right on!

    Gassho,

    Hobun

    STLAH

    Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

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