Enlightenment experience

[Jakuden]

Also, the impression I get from reading Steve Heine's new book on Dogen, is that Dogen says awakening (as synonymous with the word "enlightenment") is not wasting life. Not wasting life because of a deep knowledge of impermanence and death. I'm a newbie so I hope this is correct and relevant.

Gassho,
Tom

Sat/Lah

[Jundo]

Also, the impression I get from reading Steve Heine's new book on Dogen, is that Dogen says awakening (as synonymous with the word "enlightenment") is not wasting life. Not wasting life because of a deep knowledge of impermanence and death. I'm a newbie so I hope this is correct and relevant.

Also, seeing through life, through death too, unto this never born or dying, neither coming or going, which can never be wasted no matter how much we foolishly try.

Nevertheless, there is also life and death, healthy roads and those which are not, so do not squander this life before you die.

Gassho, J

STLah

[Ippo]

What a brilliant and "enlightening" thread. Thank you all for you thoughts and words.

Gassho,

Ippo

SatToday

[shikantazen]

Brad told me he didn't have any experiences for many years and then in the last few months before his awakening experience he had a few. This seems to be the way of this practice. Just Sitting and a sudden experience one day, especially when you care least about it.

Gassho,
Sam
ST

[Jundo]

Brad told me he didn't have any experiences for many years and then in the last few months before his awakening experience he had a few. This seems to be the way of this practice. Just Sitting and a sudden experience one day, especially when you care least about it.

Gassho,
Sam
ST

And then move on, with or without, neither clinging nor running toward nor running away ... just moving on.

Gassho, J

STLah

[Horin]

I'm not even sure, if experiences like Satori or Kensho are really important for our practice at all.
When we sitting through any condition, we can realize that which is beyond all states and conditions.
With or without extraordinary moments of "Satori", isn't it?

Gassho
Horin/Ben

Stlah

Enviado desde mi PLK-L01 mediante Tapatalk

[Ryumon]

I read Peter Matthiessen's Nine-Headed Dragon River over the past few days. In the beginning, he's into Rinzai zen, and it's all about the kensho, and deeper kensho, and MU! But he then discovers Soto zen, and the difference is stark. I think we may have been too influenced by books like The Three Pillars of Zen, and think that kensho is a goal. For those doing shikantaza, it's not.

By the way, this is a very interesting book, once you get about 1/3 of the way through, and he's gone through Rinzai, and spent some time in Tibet. He does a sort of pilgrimage with Bernie Glassman to the great temples, and his "travel writing" along with reflections on Dogen are quite beautiful.

Gassho,

Kirk

sat

[Jishin]

Brad told me he didn't have any experiences for many years and then in the last few months before his awakening experience he had a few. This seems to be the way of this practice. Just Sitting and a sudden experience one day, especially when you care least about it.

Gassho,
Sam
ST

Hi Sam,

If a tree falls in the forest and there is no one around, does it make a sound? If Brad has an enlightenment experience and you are not around to listen to him tell about his enlightenment experience, does he have an enlightenment experience?

Without a sufficient amount of enlightenment experiences to attract students he would not have any students and then would have no enlightenment experiences. You make him enlightened.

Enlightenment experiences are masters in my opinion. You should have no masters (enlightenment). Only then you will be free.

Gassho, Jishin, __/stlah\__

PS: did Brad become a slave to enlightenment?

[shikantazen]

Hi Sam,

If a tree falls in the forest and there is no one around, does it make a sound? If Brad has an enlightenment experience and you are not around to listen to him tell about his enlightenment experience, does he have an enlightenment experience?

Without a sufficient amount of enlightenment experiences to attract students he would not have any students and then would have no enlightenment experiences. You make him enlightened.

Enlightenment experiences are masters in my opinion. You should have no masters (enlightenment). Only then you will be free.

Gassho, Jishin, __/stlah\__

PS: did Brad become a slave to enlightenment?

Just to clarify he talked about them in response to my question about his experiences and when he had them during his years of sittings. He wasn't showing off or talking about them by himself

Gassho,
Sam
ST

[Kokuu]

If a tree falls in the forest and there is no one around, does it make a sound? If Brad has an enlightenment experience and you are not around to listen to him tell about his enlightenment experience, does he have an enlightenment experience?

Without a sufficient amount of enlightenment experiences to attract students he would not have any students and then would have no enlightenment experiences. You make him enlightened.

As Sam says, this is not something Brad talks about much and has only written about in one of his earliest books.

He seems to attract students through his offbeat way of explaining Dogen and practice which (mostly) stays true to Soto tradition while bringing western sensibilities to his teachings.

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday-

[Ryumon]

As Sam says, this is not something Brad talks about much and has only written about in one of his earliest books.

He seems to attract students through his offbeat way of explaining Dogen and practice which (mostly) stays true to Soto tradition while bringing western sensibilities to his teachings.

To be fair, he wrote a whole book about it, suggesting that, in some way, he had seen "god." (I know, it's more complex than that, and I haven't read the book in years.)

Gassho,

Kirk

sat