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Thread: Sangha's views on Corona Virus?

  1. #51
    Meian, it's not selfish, it's just what it is (I know you know that, & am just confirming it out loud). My son, who is 37, is locking down with his sister, who, as we age, is becoming his primary point person. They love each other wholeheartedly, but were not prepared for him to move in, with only a little of his stuff; but it's the only way to go for now. So he's grumpy and holding her dog in his lap a lot.

    They needed to see us, as we're locked down even tighter (a potential exposure 18 days ago), so we had a Zoom meeting last night.

    Today or tomorrow they will bring us groceries and pick up some things they need. It will be like an exchange of prisoners. "Leave it by the gate and wave." Interesting times.

    Kenny, you just lent a hand. _()_

    gassho
    Doyu sat/lah today
    I'm a visiting unsui from Bird Haven Zendo. Take what I say with a box of salt. Mmm!

  2. #52
    Member Onka's Avatar
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    Rural Queensland, Australia
    Quote Originally Posted by Meian View Post
    The virus is not causing my panic, even with lupus.

    This is where being autistic can be an issue for me.

    Too many changes are happening at once. Big changes, routine changes. Home, family, school, work, all changing "indefinitely." People being cruel to each other, more than usual.

    It's too much.

    The virus is irrelevant to me right now.

    I'm experimenting with chanting and shikantaza for now to work through it. Short amounts. Trying to calm my overloaded system. I'm also very tired.

    It's occurred to me that this probably sounds selfish. All I can say is I'm doing the best I can, and things are still changing here. I don't expect anyone to agree with me, I'm just explaining my experience.

    Gassho
    Meian st lh

    Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
    Be kind to yourself my amazing comrade Meian.
    Gassho
    Anna
    st

    Sent from my Lenovo TB-8304F1 using Tapatalk
    On Ka
    穏 火
    aka Anna Kissed.
    No Gods No Masters.
    Life is too serious to be taken seriously.

  3. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Meian View Post

    It's occurred to me that this probably sounds selfish. All I can say is I'm doing the best I can, and things are still changing here. I don't expect anyone to agree with me, I'm just explaining my experience.
    Yes, not selfish, just human, a bit scared because of your health issues. Cut yourself some slack, let yourself be human. It is okay to be worried about yourself and your family, of course.

    On a separate matter ...

    My grandmother was a (Jewish) "Christian Scientist" in her later years. Although she did not buy into all aspects of their beliefs which can be quite fantastic, she did believe in mind over matter against disease. She just refused to buy what her mind was selling. She called the negative thoughts "lies," and would recite a "get out lie!" mantra. Although my grandmother never even heard of "Zen," I saw her walk away from several medical conditions that doctors said were beyond treatment. I believe that we can do that sometimes (not for all sickness), but it cannot hurt and we all should now. I think that I will talk about this on the little talk during Zazenkai today.

    Gassho, J

    STLah
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  4. #54
    This too shall pass. Like any virus or illness it will strike some and pass others. Some will die and most will live. Each of us could die at any moment due to any number of reasons, many of which are unpredictable and unavoidable. Simply maintain your hygene, learn where the known risks are, and continue being mindful of each day we have. Many people are experiencing higher than normal levels of fear over this and could use reassurance where they can get it.
    Gassho
    David
    Sat/lah

  5. #55
    Hi folks

    Always one to look on the bright side of things, at least the world is adopting the gassho as a greeting, although it is getting called the 'namaste' greeting, but us zennies know the truth!

    Watch UK Prince Charles giving the game away that he is a secret buddhist -

    Anyhow, now I can go to work and gassho to everyone - maybe it'll catch on. Is there a gassho song that I could sing to go with it???

    Sorry haven't read everyone's posts, but a curious impact on New Zealand culture is that the traditional greeting of the indigenous Maori people is to press noses together, the hongi, sharing the breath of life - or in this case - possibly the breath of death.

    Sadly even the toilet paper purchasing pandemic has hit my little city at the bottom of the world, but we bought a big pack just a week ago so haven't had to start rationing just yet ;-D

    Gassho - sat zazenkai a couple of hours after live, nice to see you all one way!

    satlah, Tokan

  6. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Onka View Post
    Hey Sam
    My view on Corona Virus is that the fear and panic is borne of modern social media information overload and good ol' media sensationalism.
    I'm not into fear mongering and although many media organisations thrive on the 'If it bleeds it leads' model I think there is sufficient sensible information out there for me to decide that I have little to worry about.
    At the moment my Asthma is uncontrolled and I'm on steroids to try to get hold of it again. My partner has an autoimmune disease Multiple Sclerosis. By rights we should be concerned about this virus but we're not.
    As to how this thinking is related to Zen, I'm not sure it does. Zen helps me SIT WITH pain and life in general rather than HIDE FROM pain and life in general but my lack of fear of Covid-19 is probably more to do with critical thinking and science based information than Zen.
    Gassho
    Anna
    sat today

    Sent from my Lenovo TB-8304F1 using Tapatalk
    I agree with your views. I'm 70 and have death with issues including my own over the years. However it's annoying how one cannot escape from the discussion. Fear damages our immune systems too.

    Sat/LAH

    Kyousui - strong waters 強 水

  7. #57
    My local Target was almost completely out of dog food. I understand preparedness, but to hoard dog food for no reason beyond fear of leaving the house is not helpful. I really wish that local governments would get the word out that there is no need for hoarding, and that it hurts everyone in the long run.

    Also, LITERALLY all of the medicine was gone.

    Sitting with the stress.

    Gassho
    Sat today, lah
    求道芸化 Kyudo Geika
    I am just a priest-in-training, please do not take anything I say as a teaching.

  8. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyousui View Post
    ... I'm 70 and have death with issues including my own over the years.
    Well,that is a great Freudian slip! However, yes all do "birth and death" all through our years.

    Gassho, J

    STLah
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  9. #59
    PS -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    Well,that is a great Freudian slip! However, yes all do "birth and death" all through our years.

    Gassho, J

    STLah
    By the way, Kyosui, I bet that they had some protocols when the flu started to go around one of those submarines who were crew on ...
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  10. #60
    Good slip of the tongue there Tom, gotta love those

    gassho, Shokai
    stlah
    仁道 生開 - Jindo Shokai "Open to life in a benevolent way"
    May we all grow together in our knowledge of the Dharma

  11. #61
    I admit I've been stressed lately. Our schools shut down, daycares are expected to shut down next and don't have spots for the school age kids anyway, and unprocessed, fresh foods can be harder to find right now depending on when you happen to check for them. The schools being shut down has caused the most distress for us here. Employers haven't shut doors so people are still expected at work yet have no way to actually do it because of young children with no one else to watch them. That's been our case and it's cut our income in half since we will need to alternate working days back and forth between us to salvage keeping our jobs the best we can. If it gets too risky to keep taking days off I will probably sacrifice my job and let my wife work since her income is higher than mine and she provides our insurance and such (I have no work benefits anyway). Many people will lose their jobs here. Workplaces are generally quite uncaring here when it comes to your circumstances.

    People aren't social distancing where I live either. They are meeting calls for it with aggression and holding large gatherings at churches and such saying it's a "test of faith" and it's not going to be a good result. They are turning it into an even larger problem. It's quite frustrating. I imagine the infection rates will be quite high in my area once we analyze the numbers after it's all over.

    Gassho
    Kendrick
    Sat
    “Life and death are of supreme importance. Time swiftly passes by and opportunity is lost. Each of us should strive to awaken. Awaken! Take heed, do not squander your life.” ― Dōgen

  12. #62
    Kendrick

    Doshin
    St

  13. #63
    Daughter, a County Health worker, checks up on us old folks. Social Distance!

    social distance.jpg

    gassho
    doyu sat/lah today
    I'm a visiting unsui from Bird Haven Zendo. Take what I say with a box of salt. Mmm!

  14. #64
    For any of you that think this disease is mostly hype, I would direct you to the whole country of Italy: 1,800 deaths, 368 of those in just the last 24 hours.

    I'm a nurse that manages several Geriatrics practices, counseling programs, and providers at long-term care facilities in the area for a huge health system. I've worked closely with the Dept. of Health in a major metropolitan area in the Midwest with a focus on biological weapon readiness. Cases of COVID-19 are, roughly, doubling every four days. There are not enough test kits. There are not enough rapid flu swabs to rule out flu. There are not enough providers. The protocol for testing changes daily, sometimes several times a day. And we are just at the beginning. A pandemic doesn't care if you think you're the "most developed nation on earth." This virus, like influenza, will likely be with us from now on, and we will simply have to manage it with infection prevention measures and vaccine. If you're wondering how that will work in the meantime, imagine how many deaths we could have from influenza if there were no vaccine.

    Coronavirus is a family of viruses. All of us have probably had one. This is a new strain, hence the name "novel." To say it's "just a coronavirus" is disingenuous. There is nothing speculative about clusters of dead people.

    I urge everyone to not panic but take infection prevention seriously.

    I know this comment wasn't related to the original question, but seriously, it's not the obviously sick people or infection-conscious people that will spread the disease, it's the "this is overblown" crowd that will spread it the most to others, like many we have in this sangha, who have chronic health conditions. I wouldn't be a good nurse if I didn't point that out.

    Shinshou (Daniel)
    Sat Today

  15. #65
    Thank you, Shinshou. Metta to Italy and all.

    Gassho
    Doyu sat today and lah
    I'm a visiting unsui from Bird Haven Zendo. Take what I say with a box of salt. Mmm!

  16. #66
    Member Onka's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Rural Queensland, Australia
    Quote Originally Posted by Doyū View Post
    Daughter, a County Health worker, checks up on us old folks. Social Distance!

    social distance.jpg

    gassho
    doyu sat/lah today
    Brilliant! This brought a hearty laugh and broad smile Doyu.
    How is you son going? Is he letting your daughter's doggo get any peace?
    Be well comrade
    Gassho
    Onka
    st

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    On Ka
    穏 火
    aka Anna Kissed.
    No Gods No Masters.
    Life is too serious to be taken seriously.

  17. #67
    Member Onka's Avatar
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    Rural Queensland, Australia
    Quote Originally Posted by Kendrick View Post
    I admit I've been stressed lately. Our schools shut down, daycares are expected to shut down next and don't have spots for the school age kids anyway, and unprocessed, fresh foods can be harder to find right now depending on when you happen to check for them. The schools being shut down has caused the most distress for us here. Employers haven't shut doors so people are still expected at work yet have no way to actually do it because of young children with no one else to watch them. That's been our case and it's cut our income in half since we will need to alternate working days back and forth between us to salvage keeping our jobs the best we can. If it gets too risky to keep taking days off I will probably sacrifice my job and let my wife work since her income is higher than mine and she provides our insurance and such (I have no work benefits anyway). Many people will lose their jobs here. Workplaces are generally quite uncaring here when it comes to your circumstances.

    People aren't social distancing where I live either. They are meeting calls for it with aggression and holding large gatherings at churches and such saying it's a "test of faith" and it's not going to be a good result. They are turning it into an even larger problem. It's quite frustrating. I imagine the infection rates will be quite high in my area once we analyze the numbers after it's all over.

    Gassho
    Kendrick
    Sat
    Comrade Kendrick
    It genuinely upsets me to hear stories like yours and so many others as you face some very real, in your face challenges around employment, familial responsibility and care.
    I can't even begin to comprehend the level of undue stress this is having on you all.
    The anarchist in me is not surprised that employers are not being as supportive or understanding of employee needs beyond their production of profit hours but it disappoints me nonetheless.
    Here in Australia, people are literally fighting with each other over toilet paper! I believe that a few have actually been charged by police.
    *shakes head* Unreal.
    As an anarchist I'm also an eternal optimist and believe in the inherent good in everybody and the greater power in unity rather than division. Despite the very real challenges you're facing Kendrick, the social and mainstream media coverage of toilet paper brawls and fear mongering of impending social collapse and even stories of people "testing their faith" I still believe that we're going to get through this blip in history just fine.
    My partner and I are classed as being in the vulnerable category but I have for the second time convinced my GP to not waste a Covid19 test on me. I'm practicing social isolation and have been the last week or so, and my increased medical regime seems to be having a positive effect on my breathing so freeing up a test for someone else makes sense to me.
    If we all try to stay level headed and be the examples we wish our young people to see we'll get the best outcome overall and be able to look back on these current challenges with a smile.
    I hope this in no way comes across as dismissive of your stress Kendrick because it wasn't my intention. Today I sit for your family and all others.
    Gassho
    Onka
    st

    Sent from my Lenovo TB-8304F1 using Tapatalk
    On Ka
    穏 火
    aka Anna Kissed.
    No Gods No Masters.
    Life is too serious to be taken seriously.

  18. #68
    Hey y'all

    Seeing all the talk about everyone doing business, education, family get togethers and.....religious meetings/ceremonies online kinda reminds me of someplace I like to hang out......were's that???? Oh year, right here. The Zen of the future is now, congratulations sangha brothers and sisters, you are all trailblazers!!!

    Went to supermarket for a few bits, lots of empty shelves and stressed looking people - my two year old was shouting all sorts of random happy excited stuff and brought smiles out of the otherwise concerned looking public - yay for my baby bodhisattva even helped me to see the 'it's okay' part of all this.

    Metta to all who are suffering - whether from disease or delusion (or lack of toilet paper)

    Gassho, satlah, Tokan

  19. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinshou View Post
    For any of you that think this disease is mostly hype, I would direct you to the whole country of Italy: 1,800 deaths, 368 of those in just the last 24 hours.

    I'm a nurse that manages several Geriatrics practices, counseling programs, and providers at long-term care facilities in the area for a huge health system. I've worked closely with the Dept. of Health in a major metropolitan area in the Midwest with a focus on biological weapon readiness. Cases of COVID-19 are, roughly, doubling every four days. There are not enough test kits. There are not enough rapid flu swabs to rule out flu. There are not enough providers. The protocol for testing changes daily, sometimes several times a day. And we are just at the beginning. A pandemic doesn't care if you think you're the "most developed nation on earth." This virus, like influenza, will likely be with us from now on, and we will simply have to manage it with infection prevention measures and vaccine. If you're wondering how that will work in the meantime, imagine how many deaths we could have from influenza if there were no vaccine.

    Coronavirus is a family of viruses. All of us have probably had one. This is a new strain, hence the name "novel." To say it's "just a coronavirus" is disingenuous. There is nothing speculative about clusters of dead people.

    I urge everyone to not panic but take infection prevention seriously.

    I know this comment wasn't related to the original question, but seriously, it's not the obviously sick people or infection-conscious people that will spread the disease, it's the "this is overblown" crowd that will spread it the most to others, like many we have in this sangha, who have chronic health conditions. I wouldn't be a good nurse if I didn't point that out.

    Shinshou (Daniel)
    Sat Today

    Thanks you for the profession you chose. Gratitude to all health care workers.

    Doshin
    St

  20. #70

  21. #71
    My friend Ed just posted this, stunning ...

    Prayer for a Pandemic: (Author Unknown)

    May we who are merely inconvenienced
    Remember those whose lives are at stake.

    May we who have no risk factors
    Remember those most vulnerable.

    May we who have the luxury of working from home
    Remember those who must choose between preserving their health or making their rent.

    May we who have the flexibility to care for our children when their schools close
    Remember those who have no options.

    May we who have to cancel our trips
    Remember those that have no safe place to go.

    May we who are losing our margin money in the tumult of the economic market
    Remember those who have no margin at all.

    May we who settle in for a quarantine at home
    Remember those who have no home.

    As fear grips our country,
    Let us choose love.
    During this time when we cannot physically wrap our arms around each other,
    Let us yet find ways to be the loving embrace of the Universe/Buddha Nature/God... to our neighbors.
    --- Author Unknown
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  22. #72


    Will recite and share this with others , thanks

    Satlah, Tokan

  23. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinshou View Post
    For any of you that think this disease is mostly hype, I would direct you to the whole country of Italy: 1,800 deaths, 368 of those in just the last 24 hours.

    I'm a nurse that manages several Geriatrics practices, counseling programs, and providers at long-term care facilities in the area for a huge health system. I've worked closely with the Dept. of Health in a major metropolitan area in the Midwest with a focus on biological weapon readiness. Cases of COVID-19 are, roughly, doubling every four days. There are not enough test kits. There are not enough rapid flu swabs to rule out flu. There are not enough providers. The protocol for testing changes daily, sometimes several times a day. And we are just at the beginning. A pandemic doesn't care if you think you're the "most developed nation on earth." This virus, like influenza, will likely be with us from now on, and we will simply have to manage it with infection prevention measures and vaccine. If you're wondering how that will work in the meantime, imagine how many deaths we could have from influenza if there were no vaccine.

    Coronavirus is a family of viruses. All of us have probably had one. This is a new strain, hence the name "novel." To say it's "just a coronavirus" is disingenuous. There is nothing speculative about clusters of dead people.

    I urge everyone to not panic but take infection prevention seriously.

    I know this comment wasn't related to the original question, but seriously, it's not the obviously sick people or infection-conscious people that will spread the disease, it's the "this is overblown" crowd that will spread it the most to others, like many we have in this sangha, who have chronic health conditions. I wouldn't be a good nurse if I didn't point that out.

    Shinshou (Daniel)
    Sat Today
    Thank you for this Shinshou, from here in Italy it's frightening and sad to see people expressing the 'overblown/only flu/more people die from...' attitude. I don't want any country to have to go through what we are still going through, don't panic, but for goodness sake take this seriously.
    Gassho
    Meitou
    sattoday
    命 Mei - life
    島 Tou - island

  24. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    My friend Ed just posted this, stunning ...
    Thank you Jundo, that’s lovely

    Gassho
    Libby
    ST

  25. #75
    I find myself in a bit of a dilemma. I have a friend who is legally blind. He needs assistance with errands, shopping, appointments, household repairs, yard work, etc. He literally can't screw-in a light bulb. I took him on a few errands today and I was dismayed that he does not practice any safety, social distance, sanitizing, or cleanliness. No awareness at all. He thinks this whole this is a big hype. Everybody is just "hysterical." Since he is otherwise healthy, if he get the virus he'll be fine. I can't get him to understand that although that may be true he could pass it to somebody else. I am over 60 and healthy but once you hit 60 your getting into a more dangerous area. But I am not afraid. My wife had "the worst case of shingles" her doctor ever saw so who knows how her immune system is. Also what about the 75 year old guy in line with us at the pharmacy that he is breathing on from one foot away. He just doesn't get it.

    I hate to say that I want to cut off my aiding him. I did not feel safe today and although he is otherwise well educated and intelligent he's just being impossible about this. I am not super close to him so I don't feel like I could have a best buddy conversation with him. But I don't want to do this anymore. He is financially fine so can afford uber, food delivery, etc. I am not sure how to approach this and feel weird about it.

    Gassho
    STlah
    James

  26. #76
    I'd tell him I was concerned of the risk to your wife regarding her medical condition and that he should get help from someone else. My partner is totally blind and she is terrified by the news. A friend of hers who is also blind just came back from Florida and was not going to take any precautions. he said he felt fine and there was no risk. However, we were able to convince him that even if he didn't get sick he could possibly be a carrier and infect a number of others, Finally, he is now staying in and ordering on-line. Doreen has had to ask for help for thirty years now. Initially, most blind people don't see the need, they'd prefer to be independent but eventually they need to face the reality of their situation. we've just recently been able to convince this fellow of the very thing.

    gassho, Shokai
    stlah
    仁道 生開 - Jindo Shokai "Open to life in a benevolent way"
    May we all grow together in our knowledge of the Dharma

  27. #77
    Shoki

    I would have offered the same advice. The truth which can be offered diplomatically. If he has difficulty accepting, that is not your fault. I understand the feeling of wanting to help and having difficulty saying no.

    The best

    An aging baby boomer

    Doshin
    St

  28. #78
    Unfortunately I have no answer to give you, Shoki. It is a difficult situation.
    I am also facing one. We have a woman that cleans our house once a week. But as our town enters a partial lockdown and we have two suspected cases of Covid-19, I don’t know if it is a good idea for her to keep coming to work here.
    The problem is that she depends on this work to sustain herself and her son (she is a domestic violence survivor and has to work alone for them). She works once a week in six different houses. Her income is good as she charges R$ 360,00 for each house (for comparison, my salary is R$ 1566,00). But with the lockdown, many houses in which she works are now telling her not to go to work. And it will undoubtedly affect her income in a time she most needs it.
    On the other hand, she uses the public transportation to get here, and it can be dangerous to her and her son.
    In the end, my wife and I decided to live the decision to her if she will or will not come. We also offered to pick her up and leave her at her home using our car so she doesn’t need to use the bus.
    Was it a good decision? Someone has a suggestion for me?
    Thank you for the mutual support in these times.
    Gassho,
    Mateus
    Sat/LAH

  29. #79
    Thanks Shokai and Doshin. To complicate matters, a few days before this got crazy with all the shutdowns and restrictions I was at a family funeral. I come from a large old school Italian-American family where the men greet each other with a hug and a kiss on the cheek. So there was a lot of that. Great. Also I just heard from a cousin who was sitting next to somebody at a work meeting who was later tested positive so his house in under quarantine. Then my grandson who works as a busboy at a restaurant found that somebody who was tested positive was in the place so he's locked down with his mother and sister awaiting test results. He's out of a job. He was accepted at three colleges for this fall but who knows if that's going to happen. I am not in fear but we're in uncharted territory.

    Gassho
    STlah
    James

  30. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by mateus.baldin View Post
    Unfortunately I have no answer to give you, Shoki. It is a difficult situation.
    I am also facing one. We have a woman that cleans our house once a week. But as our town enters a partial lockdown and we have two suspected cases of Covid-19, I don’t know if it is a good idea for her to keep coming to work here.
    The problem is that she depends on this work to sustain herself and her son (she is a domestic violence survivor and has to work alone for them). She works once a week in six different houses. Her income is good as she charges R$ 360,00 for each house (for comparison, my salary is R$ 1566,00). But with the lockdown, many houses in which she works are now telling her not to go to work. And it will undoubtedly affect her income in a time she most needs it.
    On the other hand, she uses the public transportation to get here, and it can be dangerous to her and her son.
    In the end, my wife and I decided to live the decision to her if she will or will not come. We also offered to pick her up and leave her at her home using our car so she doesn’t need to use the bus.
    Was it a good decision? Someone has a suggestion for me?
    Thank you for the mutual support in these times.
    Gassho,
    Mateus
    Sat/LAH
    Mateus,
    No easy answers. Even if the neighborhood customers chipped in and gave her a cash donation, how long would that last? This thing is not going away in a few weeks. The frustrating thing is if there was an earthquake, wildfire, hurricane, tornado, there are known things we could do to help. Either make a donation or roll up your sleeves, grab a shovel and get in there next to your neighbors. But now you can't.

    Gassho
    STlah
    James

  31. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Shoki View Post
    Mateus,
    No easy answers. Even if the neighborhood customers chipped in and gave her a cash donation, how long would that last? This thing is not going away in a few weeks. The frustrating thing is if there was an earthquake, wildfire, hurricane, tornado, there are known things we could do to help. Either make a donation or roll up your sleeves, grab a shovel and get in there next to your neighbors. But now you can't.

    Gassho
    STlah
    James
    Thank you, Shoki. May we all find wisdom to deal with it all.

    Mateus
    Sat/LAH

  32. #82
    My mother's family is also old school Italian, and it's how I was raised, traditional everything. So I can relate on that. My family is having a hard time understanding what's going on, what can they access, they want to do everything in person (they don't believe in the internet, they want paper). The restrictions, prohibitions, and closures grow by the day, and it's distressing to them.

    It's quite scary. My family is trying to keep me safe (I'm forbidden to leave the house), but we're also trying to keep our elders safe, as they are all in delicate health. And one elder keeps leaving home to get a break from his wife Such are the golden years.

    The store shelves are empty, and my aunts are saying, maybe tomorrow they'll look for some toilet paper, but they still have a pint of milk for a day or two. I said we have these things, the girls will walk a package down tomorrow, please stay home.

    Meanwhile my classmates are vying for top spot in a simulated competition that I told my professor..... I'm really mentally checked out right now. I'm doing what I can, but I just can't focus well.

    Gassho
    Meian st lh

    Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
    Not all who wander are lost. (Tolkien)
    Sometimes there are no answers.
    迷安 - Mei An - Wandering At Rest

  33. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Shoki View Post
    I find myself in a bit of a dilemma. I have a friend who is legally blind. He needs assistance with errands, shopping, appointments, household repairs, yard work, etc. He literally can't screw-in a light bulb. I took him on a few errands today and I was dismayed that he does not practice any safety, social distance, sanitizing, or cleanliness. No awareness at all. He thinks this whole this is a big hype. Everybody is just "hysterical." Since he is otherwise healthy, if he get the virus he'll be fine. I can't get him to understand that although that may be true he could pass it to somebody else. I am over 60 and healthy but once you hit 60 your getting into a more dangerous area. But I am not afraid. My wife had "the worst case of shingles" her doctor ever saw so who knows how her immune system is. Also what about the 75 year old guy in line with us at the pharmacy that he is breathing on from one foot away. He just doesn't get it.

    I hate to say that I want to cut off my aiding him. I did not feel safe today and although he is otherwise well educated and intelligent he's just being impossible about this. I am not super close to him so I don't feel like I could have a best buddy conversation with him. But I don't want to do this anymore. He is financially fine so can afford uber, food delivery, etc. I am not sure how to approach this and feel weird about it.

    Gassho
    STlah
    James
    He is a friend who is legally blind and needs assistance. If your not comfortable in public with him perhaps just help him out at home. Some of my friends are suspicious of the moon landing. My wife’s grandmother thought stone henge was made by giants. oh well. Makes for really interesting conversations.. but they are adults and I cannot control what they do or say or think.

    Gassho, Kyotai
    ST LaH
    I am a student at Treeleaf. Please take what I say with a grain of salt. Gassho

  34. #84
    Hello Friends,

    Here is something to share with deniers. An acquaintance in Italy has been keeping a daily blog about their quarantine. It's rather dire there:

    Eigth day of lockdown. The news show us that numbers are worsening, as if in either the lockdown isn't working (due to people not respecting it) or simply health care isn't capable of stopping the disease anylonger. It's probably a mix of the two, as confirmed by a few Chinese doctors that helped during the outbreak in China and were flown it by night. They said they don't understand why there's so many people still on the streets, and why so many aren't wearing masks. They clearly stated that in these conditions is impossible to contain the pandemic, and today's numbers proved them right: we hit 41035 infected (that we know of), with a contagion rate of +14.9% (in the previous three days we were around a stable 13%). 3405 people died in total, making the human losses in Italy greater than those in China (talking absolute numbers, not relative frequency, which is even more impressive considering we have so many less inhabitants than China), for an apparent death rate of 8.30%. 4440 were declared healed.

    This morning Dr Stefano Fagiuoli, director of the Medical Division at the Hospital "Papa Giovanni XXIII" in Bergamo released this call for help in the morning. It's in English, so, please, retweet / share / embed on your socials

    If you're wondering if he's exagerating, please open the following spoiler tags:

    External image (photo of long line of army trucks)


    Yes, it's the army. But they are not moving troops. They are moving bodies


    At the moment, we're running out of everything: not only means to fight the virus (machinery, specific drugs, equipment), but we're also running out of doctors (there's casualties among them too) and of generic drugs for other treatments, specifically drugs used for anesthesia. The implications of this are catastrophic.

    In the meantime, cases in my region almost doubled in 24 hours, meaning people don't understand a forking nothing about staying at home: 8 days in the lockdown, and we keep having new cases popping up like mushrooms after a rainy afternoon. Yesterday in Treviso the police stopped a rave on a roof.

    The European Central Bank moved, and the economy recovered a little bit. DiMaio announced they signed an agreement with China for 100 millions of protective masks. Let's hope we have enough resources to lessen the blow a bit until they come here.
    The biggest risk isn't everyone dying of COVID19--it's of the medical system becoming completely overwhelmed, leading to deaths or delayed treatment of serious issues because there are no beds/doctors/nurses available...
    Last edited by Kaishin; 03-19-2020 at 06:39 PM.
    Thanks,
    Kaishin (Open Heart aka Matt)
    Please take this layman's words with a grain of salt.

  35. #85
    Member Onka's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Rural Queensland, Australia
    I wonder how many people die daily from poverty related causes such as preventable illness, disease, malnutrition and starvation?
    I wonder how many people die daily from domestic and family violence?
    I wonder how many people die from wars and violence that were inflicted on them by warmongering heads of states?
    I wonder if we only give a hoot about Covid 19 because it's not as discriminatory about who dies...?

    No Gassho. No deep bows. No Metta. No hiding from reality.
    Anna
    Sat today/avoided news and social media.
    On Ka
    穏 火
    aka Anna Kissed.
    No Gods No Masters.
    Life is too serious to be taken seriously.

  36. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Onka View Post
    I wonder how many people die daily from poverty related causes such as preventable illness, disease, malnutrition and starvation?
    I wonder how many people die daily from domestic and family violence?
    I wonder how many people die from wars and violence that were inflicted on them by warmongering heads of states?
    I wonder if we only give a hoot about Covid 19 because it's not as discriminatory about who dies...?

    No Gassho. No deep bows. No Metta. No hiding from reality.
    Anna
    Sat today/avoided news and social media.


    I think you said it, sister.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  37. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Onka View Post
    I wonder how many people die daily from poverty related causes such as preventable illness, disease, malnutrition and starvation?
    I wonder how many people die daily from domestic and family violence?
    I wonder how many people die from wars and violence that were inflicted on them by warmongering heads of states?
    I wonder if we only give a hoot about Covid 19 because it's not as discriminatory about who dies...?

    No Gassho. No deep bows. No Metta. No hiding from reality.
    Anna
    Sat today/avoided news and social media.
    That's what I've been thinking too. Covid 19 is all about being equal opportunity.

    Gassho
    STlah
    James

  38. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Onka View Post
    I wonder how many people die daily from poverty related causes such as preventable illness, disease, malnutrition and starvation?
    I wonder how many people die daily from domestic and family violence?
    I wonder how many people die from wars and violence that were inflicted on them by warmongering heads of states?
    I wonder if we only give a hoot about Covid 19 because it's not as discriminatory about who dies...?

    No Gassho. No deep bows. No Metta. No hiding from reality.
    Anna
    Sat today/avoided news and social media.
    Hi Onka.
    I share your concerns. Thank you for bringing this.

    And also, at least here where I live, we are in the middle of other major outbreaks that are spreading specially on the lower part of our society: H1N1 (800 deaths already), dengue fever, zikavirus, hantavírus (my two nieces got this one but are recovering well) and yellow fever.

    But this new disease is worrying us all more than these old killers that are spreading among my country.

    And now, what the homeless people will do if they don’t have a house to self isolate or quarantine themselves. In São Paulo alone there are 25,000 people living on the streets. The government will probably do nothing and the few people who helped them are now under lockdown. And, at least in the South, the winter is coming. What is going to happen to them?

    May all people who suffer from poverty be free from these diseases and all suffering.

    Gassho,
    Mateus
    Sat/LAH

  39. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Onka View Post
    I wonder how many people die daily from poverty related causes such as preventable illness, disease, malnutrition and starvation?
    I wonder how many people die daily from domestic and family violence?
    I wonder how many people die from wars and violence that were inflicted on them by warmongering heads of states?
    I wonder if we only give a hoot about Covid 19 because it's not as discriminatory about who dies...?

    No Gassho. No deep bows. No Metta. No hiding from reality.
    Anna
    Sat today/avoided news and social media.


    Hi sangha, Anna

    So true, so many suffering for so many reasons. And so many people experiencing joy for so many other reasons. I wash my hands, hug my family, wash my hands again and sit.

    Gassho

    tokan

    Sat LAHHHHHH!

  40. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Risho View Post

    This is an airborne disease; last I heard (if it's true lol) is that it can last in the air for 3 hours. It can live on surfaces for 2 weeks.
    Not weeks. This is the scientific advice right now:

    The virus that causes coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) is stable for several hours to days in aerosols and on surfaces, according to a new study from National Institutes of Health, CDC, UCLA and Princeton University scientists in The New England Journal of Medicine. The scientists found that severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) was detectable in aerosols for up to three hours, up to four hours on copper, up to 24 hours on cardboard and up to two to three days on plastic and stainless steel.
    From https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news...hours-surfaces

    Please check reputable sources before sharing information about this virus.

    Gassho,

    Kirk

    SAT
    -----
    I know nothing.

  41. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by kirkmc View Post
    Not weeks. This is the scientific advice right now:



    From https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news...hours-surfaces

    Please check reputable sources before sharing information about this virus.

    Gassho,

    Kirk

    SAT
    HOWEVER, other scientists said that the aerosol used in an experiment like that is not representative of a sneeze or cough, which would tend to be much heavier and sink faster, thus not remaining in the air ...

    https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/16/...t-mean-doomed/

    Scientists not involved in the study raised a couple of concerns: whether the mechanical nebulizer simulates coughs or sneezes, and whether the lab conditions reflect the real world. ... The NIAID study “is measuring virus under ideal conditions and with a lot of virus,” said microbiologist Benjamin tenOever of the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai. “So their results are all likely to be overestimates. "... “We’ve seen no evidence that aerosolized virus is the primary transmission risk for everyday people in everyday settings,” said Dylan Morris of Princeton University, a co-author of the study. “One should not rule anything out categorically with a novel, still-poorly-understood virus, [but] based on what we know about coughing and sneezing, one should be cautiously optimistic that aerosolization may not play a big role in everyday transmission.”
    So, seems like the question is still open on that.

    Gassho, J

    STLah
    Last edited by Jundo; 03-22-2020 at 09:07 AM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  42. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by shikantazen View Post
    Corona virus seems to be the raging topic out now. People getting worried everywhere and stocking up stuff etc..

    They say if a cure is not found this can spread to 40-70% of world population in the next 1 year. We all have our karma that we need to go through and there is an overall prevailing dharma (law) according to which universe functions. I feel a one epidemic like coronavirus coming and killing everyone is not possible as it goes against the karma and dharma.

    What is the sangha's and zen's view on corona virus?

    Gassho,
    Sam
    STlah
    I speak for neither the Sangha nor the Dharma, but these are some of the thoughts that come to me.

    Upon witnessing the death of the Buddha, senior monks observed, "All conditioned things are impermanent; how could it be otherwise?"
    I suspect that plagues and pandemics quite probably have tormented our ancestors since long before they descended from the trees and started walking upright. It was ever thus. In the vast and ancient lineage of humanity (and viruses), what hubris is it to think that I'm somehow exempt? Old age, illness, and death are inseparably part and parcel of life for all of us; even me.

    "There are these five facts that one should reflect on often, whether one is a woman or a man, lay or ordained. Which five?
    I am subject to aging, I have not gone beyond aging.
    I am subject to illness, I have not gone beyond illness.
    I am subject to death, I have not gone beyond death.
    I will grow different, separate from all that is dear and appealing to me.
    I am the owner of my actions, heir to my actions, born of my actions, related through my actions, and have my actions as my arbitrator. Whatever I do, for good or for evil, to that will I fall heir.
    These are the five facts that one should reflect upon often, whether one is a woman or a man, lay or ordained."
    Upajjhatthana Sutta

    In past years, when folks would ask why I get a flu shot every year, I'd reply "1918", to their utter bewilderment. One author has suggested that the reason such a cataclysmic event has largely been erased from our collective consciousness is collective shame; the dark memories of survivors who at the height of the epidemic closed their hearts to the suffering of others out of mortal terror. As Mahayana, I aspire to be a bodhisattva; well, here's my opportunity. Hopefully I'll keep in mind these Five Remembrances, and realize that as Thich Nhat Hanh wrote; "my actions are my only true possessions; the ground upon which I stand." I was once told to regard my rakuzu as a waiter's apron; that a sincere "How may I help you?" fulfills all of my vows. Ultimately, the Corona Virus doesn't change my fundamental practice; find a need and fill it. Repeat PRN. Simply do the next right thing.

    May you be well, free of suffering, and at peace.

    Sat today.
    May all beings everywhere plagued with sufferings of body and mind
    quickly be freed from their illnesses.
    May those frightened cease to be afraid
    and may those bound be free.
    May the powerless find power
    and may people think of befriending one another.

  43. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Emmet View Post
    I speak for neither the Sangha nor the Dharma, but these are some of the thoughts that come to me.

    Upon witnessing the death of the Buddha, senior monks observed, "All conditioned things are impermanent; how could it be otherwise?"
    I suspect that plagues and pandemics quite probably have tormented our ancestors since long before they descended from the trees and started walking upright. It was ever thus. In the vast and ancient lineage of humanity (and viruses), what hubris is it to think that I'm somehow exempt? Old age, illness, and death are inseparably part and parcel of life for all of us; even me.

    "There are these five facts that one should reflect on often, whether one is a woman or a man, lay or ordained. Which five?
    I am subject to aging, I have not gone beyond aging.
    I am subject to illness, I have not gone beyond illness.
    I am subject to death, I have not gone beyond death.
    I will grow different, separate from all that is dear and appealing to me.
    I am the owner of my actions, heir to my actions, born of my actions, related through my actions, and have my actions as my arbitrator. Whatever I do, for good or for evil, to that will I fall heir.
    These are the five facts that one should reflect upon often, whether one is a woman or a man, lay or ordained."
    Upajjhatthana Sutta

    In past years, when folks would ask why I get a flu shot every year, I'd reply "1918", to their utter bewilderment. One author has suggested that the reason such a cataclysmic event has largely been erased from our collective consciousness is collective shame; the dark memories of survivors who at the height of the epidemic closed their hearts to the suffering of others out of mortal terror. As Mahayana, I aspire to be a bodhisattva; well, here's my opportunity. Hopefully I'll keep in mind these Five Remembrances, and realize that as Thich Nhat Hanh wrote; "my actions are my only true possessions; the ground upon which I stand." I was once told to regard my rakuzu as a waiter's apron; that a sincere "How may I help you?" fulfills all of my vows. Ultimately, the Corona Virus doesn't change my fundamental practice; find a need and fill it. Repeat PRN. Simply do the next right thing.

    May you be well, free of suffering, and at peace.

    Sat today.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  44. #94
    Emmet

    I have been thinking similar thoughts as you. I live a few miles from a ghost mining town that began to “die” around the beginning of the last Century. The Spanish Flu was the last critical blow. The cemetery is full of those who died in 1918.

    When looking at my ancestry years ago I noted how many children my ancestors had but also how many never survived to adulthood. Epidemics, pandemics etc are part of life. Not only for us but other species. Science has built a buffer between us and many diseases. Vaccinations have helped to dampen outbreaks. Modern medicines and procedures have greatly increased survival. I was in a hospital in 1968 from a Pandemic and medicine brought my recovery.

    Today many are counting on Science to find a solution. In this darkness I hope one spark of understanding will emerge. Which is understanding of the value Science brings. In my youth when I began to pursue science there was more confidence in it. Now there seem to be more that have lost trust. I often wonder if it is because they don’t understand the method. Knowledge changes with information. Ideas are refined or discarded. It is always a search for the best answer and that answer changes with more information.

    Good health

    Doshin
    St
    Last edited by Doshin; 03-23-2020 at 03:12 PM.

  45. #95


    Lovely insights, Emmet and Doshin.

    Gassho
    Sat today, lah
    求道芸化 Kyudo Geika
    I am just a priest-in-training, please do not take anything I say as a teaching.

  46. #96
    Yes thank you for your teachings !

    Gassho
    Jakuden
    SatToday/LAH


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    清 道 寂田
    SEIDO JAKUDEN
    I am a novice priest. Any resemblance my posts may have to actual teachings about the Dharma, living or dead, is purely coincidental (and just my attempt to be helpful).

  47. #97
    Thank you, Emmet and Doshin.
    Gassho,
    Mateus
    Sat/LAH

  48. #98
    Member Onka's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Rural Queensland, Australia
    Wisdom from Emmett and Doshin is always welcome.
    I have known since I was very very young that my life would not be an easy one and from my mid teens, possibly not a long one. Science has done so much to get me to 48 so I'll always champion science and wisdom that comes from it.
    I get a government paid (yay!) flu shot every year because my lungs aren't fantastic and my partner has MS. It's a no brainer for me. Get vaccinated, get a flu shot, trust science!
    Where I think things changed was the advent of the internet and social media. Social media brought so many good things. It helped people connect and share, it provided a platform for quality independent journalism to develop, the world became smaller and transparent. On the other hand it brought out online bullying, internet pile on's, stalking, misinformation, conspiracy theories and the thing most applicable to this thread - anti-vaxxer twits and less respect for science.
    It bends my noggin to think that we seem to have gone from people capable of at least a little bit of critical thinking thirty years ago. We were able to distinguish between rightwing and leftwing news and find quality journalism and information in each. Now it seems we are mushy brained fools who will run with any kind of nonsense that someone puts on Facebook as fact. Don't get me started on leaders of nations who declare respected journalism and information as "fake news".
    *shakes head in dismay*
    Long live science and wisdom and thank you to ALL people working in the health arena from cleaners, receptionist's, stores workers, security, doctors, nurses and everyone else. I humbly follow your advice and hope this blip in history doesn't cost you more than you can give.
    I'm also thankful for my teacher Jundo and my Sangha sisters, brothers and others, I have genuine affection for you all.
    Gassho
    Onka
    Sat today/Rang the old bloke I usually walk with.

    Sent from my Lenovo TB-8304F1 using Tapatalk
    On Ka
    穏 火
    aka Anna Kissed.
    No Gods No Masters.
    Life is too serious to be taken seriously.

  49. #99
    I am a student at Treeleaf. Please take what I say with a grain of salt. Gassho

  50. #100
    Just re-read this entire thread, funny how the tone has changed.

    Gassho
    (About to) sit (10 am central)
    Marc Connery
    明岩
    Myo̅ Gan - Bright Cliff

    I put the Monkey in Monkeymind

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