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Thread: Negativity against engaged Buddhism?

  1. #51
    Sen, sorry for what you deal with.

    Doshin
    St

  2. #52
    Thank you for your kindness Isshin and Doshin

    Although those experiences were unpleasant, they have been tremendous opportunities for me to learn and grow. I don't exactly regret they happened.

    Gassho
    Sen
    Sat|LAH
    "Air stays fresh when it’s moving."

  3. #53
    I would like to ask some caution on some words in this thread that might be taken as a criticism of Islam as a violent religion. I do not think that any religion ... including Buddhism ... escapes from having violence and extremist groups.

    Kindly watch our language too. Like graffitti, empty lots filled with trash and broken windows, harsh speech with even a few "sh*ts" and "cr*ps" just brings down the peace and welcoming atmosphere of this place, like actual cr*p on the floor. I personally curse like a sailor when the time is right (I stubbed my toe yesterday, and I love the Koan that Buddha is an old shit stick), but there is a place and time for all things.

    I will also insist, no matter our individual personal views (I certainly have my own personal views on all these matters, yes I do), that "good Buddhists" can still disagree on issues such as climate change, whether the government should be involved in providing health care, same-sex marriage, God, vegetarianism, Brexit, how to handle immigration, globalization and weak labor/environmental laws in places like China and the like, and still be "good Buddhists" if they sincerely believe that they are acting to benefit our fellow Sentient Beings, while seeking to be free of anger, violence and division. I feel that one can be a "liberal, or conservative or moderate or Marxist, or feminist, or socialist or anarchist" Buddhist, but one does not have to be a "liberal, or conservative or moderate or Marxist, or feminist, or socialist or anarchist" Buddhist, and we have to be a bit careful about imposing our personal political views on others in this Sangha ... where we basically come together to drop all separation and views before heading back out the door into samsara. I am glad that everyone seems to be discussing these issues in a civil tone without anger ... and I think that says a lot about our community.

    Just as a side note, I would not allow any hate speech in this Sangha, except maybe once ... and then only to swiftly correct it (then offer Metta for the speaker's suffering). Fortunately, that rarely comes up around here. What is "hate speech"? Not so clear, but I know it when I hear it. For sure, certain critical comments about other religious groups, races, sexual identities and preferences would quickly be over the line. I once shut down some of our younger members calling things "retarded" or "Gay" around here because I work with some kids who actually are the former and know many good people who identify as the latter, and I think sometimes certain seemingly innocuous terms can be hurtful.

    Although I do keep a less than iron hand on the wheel around here, please humor me and honor the above. Thank you.

    Gassho, J

    STLah

    PS - Some very good ideas above for future reading in the "no words" book club.
    Last edited by Jundo; 10-30-2019 at 04:23 AM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  4. #54
    points taken

    I think when I communicate I assume a lot but, as Kokuu pointed out, there is freedom of speech but we must be responsible; sometimes I assume responsibility but words can easily be weaponized; I know I have to be more conscious of that. Catching up on Realizing Genjokoan, chapter 2 talks just about that: taking personal responsibility as individuals that also impact tge community; I fall into the extreme of both sides just like he mentions! hahaha

    I wonder if that’s what Dogen means with “ In seeing color and hearing sound with body and mind, although we perceive them intimately, [the perception] is not like reflections in a mirror or the moon in water. When one side is illuminated, the other is dark.”

    gassho

    rish
    -stlah
    Last edited by Risho; 10-30-2019 at 12:53 PM.

  5. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    I would like to ask some caution on some words in this thread that might be taken as a criticism of Islam as a violent religion. I do not think that any religion ... including Buddhism ... escapes from having violence and extremist groups.

    Kindly watch our language too. Like graffitti, empty lots filled with trash and broken windows, harsh speech with even a few "sh*ts" and "cr*ps" just brings down the peace and welcoming atmosphere of this place, like actual cr*p on the floor. I personally curse like a sailor when the time is right (I stubbed my toe yesterday, and I love the Koan that Buddha is an old shit stick), but there is a place and time for all things.

    I will also insist, no matter our individual personal views (I certainly have my own personal views on all these matters, yes I do), that "good Buddhists" can still disagree on issues such as climate change, whether the government should be involved in providing health care, same-sex marriage, God, vegetarianism, Brexit, how to handle immigration, globalization and weak labor/environmental laws in places like China and the like, and still be "good Buddhists" if they sincerely believe that they are acting to benefit our fellow Sentient Beings, while seeking to be free of anger, violence and division. I feel that one can be a "liberal, or conservative or moderate or Marxist, or feminist, or socialist or anarchist" Buddhist, but one does not have to be a "liberal, or conservative or moderate or Marxist, or feminist, or socialist or anarchist" Buddhist, and we have to be a bit careful about imposing our personal political views on others in this Sangha ... where we basically come together to drop all separation and views before heading back out the door into samsara. I am glad that everyone seems to be discussing these issues in a civil tone without anger ... and I think that says a lot about our community.

    Just as a side note, I would not allow any hate speech in this Sangha, except maybe once ... and then only to swiftly correct it (then offer Metta for the speaker's suffering). Fortunately, that rarely comes up around here. What is "hate speech"? Not so clear, but I know it when I hear it. For sure, certain critical comments about other religious groups, races, sexual identities and preferences would quickly be over the line. I once shut down some of our younger members calling things "retarded" or "Gay" around here because I work with some kids who actually are the former and know many good people who identify as the latter, and I think sometimes certain seemingly innocuous terms can be hurtful.

    Although I do keep a less than iron hand on the wheel around here, please humor me and honor the above. Thank you.

    Gassho, J

    STLah

    PS - Some very good ideas above for future reading in the "no words" book club.
    Thank you Jundo.
    Gassho
    Meitou
    Sattoday lah
    命 Mei - life
    島 Tou - island

  6. #56
    Treeleaf Unsui / Engineer Sekishi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risho View Post
    I think when I communicate I assume a lot but, as Kokuu pointed out, there is freedom of speech but we must be responsible; sometimes I assume responsibility but words can easily be weaponized; I know I have to be more conscious of that. Catching up on Realizing Genjokoan, chapter 2 talks just about that: taking personal responsibility as individuals that also impact tge community; I fall into the extreme of both sides just like he mentions! hahaha
    (I'm quoting Risho here, but this is more of a general observation on the topic.)

    Our words, thoughts, and actions create future karmic conditions.

    There are some different "views" on the specifics (particularly when it comes to rebirth and the like), but one widely accepted Buddhist understanding of karma (including in Zen) is that consciousness is seen as having eight aspects: the six senses (the usual five plus "thought"), the manas (the sense of "I am" or "the observer"), and "alaya" - the storehouse or "seed" consciousness. It is this storehouse / alaya that we work with during Ango with Thich Nhat Han's "Nurturing Seeds" practice. The basic idea is that our thoughts, speech, and actions take root as "seeds" which later bear "fruit" when activated by circumstances. By nurturing "positive" seeds (e.g. based on compassion, non-self, right view, etc.) right now, in this moment, they may bear "positive" fruit in the future.

    I have spent a lifetime watering the seeds of self-blame, self-recrimination, and self-loathing. I can be sitting peacefully in the tub and remember "the cat needs an insulin injection". The thought is neutral (and with a positive intention -- care for the cat's diabetes), but thanks to all of the watering of negative seeds, by the time it arrives as a complete mental formation it is shaped more like "Hey useless moron, you forgot to medicate the cat." If I'm really determined, I can then spend a good 90 seconds spinning that out into a story about how utterly useless and lazy I am. This all waters the seeds of self-blame, self-recrimination, and self-loathing. Repeat this basic process 10,000 times over a lifetime and it is easy to see how we can unthinkingly go straight to familiar mental patterns when conditions arise.

    I believe the same process occurs in more subtle ways. Most of us use language throughout our waking days, watering seeds that divide the world into "self" and "other", "good" and "evil", "beautiful" and "ugly" until we bare the fruit of believing that those things really truly ultimately exist.

    Maybe that all sounds technical and woo (sorry), but in simpler terms: through repetition - thought, word, and act become habit. If we repeat kindness and compassion in our thoughts, words, and acts; these are a gift to our future selves (and all beings we encounter). When we encounter a difficult person or situation, we will be in the habit of kindness and compassion. So our practice is to make a habit of kindness and compassion in thoughts, words, and acts.

    So kind speech is a sort of mind training and a gift to the world and our future self.

    Just my $0.02.

    Gassho,
    Sekishi
    sekishi
    石志

    As a novice priest-in-training, this is simply an expression of my opinion. Please take it with a grain of salt.

  7. #57
    Treeleaf Unsui / Engineer Sekishi's Avatar
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    Virginia, USA
    There was a quote I wanted to use in my previous post that I couldn’t find. Finally found it...

    It is from Ben Connelly (who gave a talk here at Treeleaf a few years back):

    “If we cultivate beneficial mind-states, principally through being mindfully aware of them as they arise but also by thinking and talking about them, encouraging each other to cultivate them, we can transform the storehouse. Consciousness tends to create the same kinds of things it’s seen before. Seeds of peace grow peace, which plants seeds of peace.

    I see gentle speech not as piety or fake nicey-nice. I see it as one part mind training and one part acknowledgment of deep interconnectedness.

    Again, just my $0.02. I’ll be quiet now.

    Gassho,
    Sekishi
    #sat


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    sekishi
    石志

    As a novice priest-in-training, this is simply an expression of my opinion. Please take it with a grain of salt.

  8. #58
    Member Anna's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
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    Rural Queensland, Australia
    Gassho
    Anna
    stlah

    Sent from my Lenovo TB-8304F1 using Tapatalk
    Life's too serious to be taken seriously.
    No Gods No Masters.

  9. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Sekishi View Post
    There was a quote I wanted to use in my previous post that I couldn’t find. Finally found it...

    It is from Ben Connelly (who gave a talk here at Treeleaf a few years back):

    “If we cultivate beneficial mind-states, principally through being mindfully aware of them as they arise but also by thinking and talking about them, encouraging each other to cultivate them, we can transform the storehouse. Consciousness tends to create the same kinds of things it’s seen before. Seeds of peace grow peace, which plants seeds of peace.

    I see gentle speech not as piety or fake nicey-nice. I see it as one part mind training and one part acknowledgment of deep interconnectedness.

    Again, just my $0.02. I’ll be quiet now.

    Gassho,
    Sekishi
    #sat


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Some years ago, with another Sangha, I took part in a course on Non Violent Communication which showed participants how important both thoughtful speech and active listening are. What you are saying here directly relates to that Sekishi. Thanks.
    Gassho
    Meitou
    Sattoday
    命 Mei - life
    島 Tou - island

  10. #60
    Sekishi droppin' the knowledge all over the place!!!! It's funny how right (well right imho ) this idea of storehouse consciousness is; it's a very astute observation by a culture in a pre-scientific era - now I'm assuming this came out of Yogacara or some school of thought prior to the scientific method. I would think storehouse consciousness would now be neural pathways, and the neural pathways can be reinforced by how we choose to let our reactions cause chain reactions in our thought; just like you are saying Sekishi. Edit and clarification because I may not know what I'm talking about here : I'm not a doctor, I just play one on the internet. lol

    For example - something happens that's difficult, and we give up. Or we make promises to ourselves and we quit. Or politics come up, we get angry and shutdown. Or something difficult happens and our thoughts of shame and not being good enough start kicking off. These are all lies! Big, huge lies! Dr. Amen calls these Automatic Negative Thoughts (ANT's). These habits and pathways are our karma and can be changed - but we have to observe them and consciously decide not to allow these thoughts to overtake our consciousness - sowing new seeds (or constructing new pathways) is difficult but worth it. There is also a huge nutritional and physical aspect to all of this; it truly is all interconnected as the heart sutra says which, if you think about it, is pretty amazing that people came to these conclusions via practice.

    Good stuff - thank you Sekishi!

    Gassho

    Rish
    -stlah

    PS - I'm sorry I keep responding to these; I tell myself not to respond, you don't need the last word all the time, but this discussion is just very compelling and my storehouse consciousness won't let me stop. hahahahah Seriously, thank you everyone for this discussion; it has transformed from my gripe to me learning quite a bit.
    Last edited by Risho; 10-31-2019 at 11:26 AM.

  11. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Risho View Post
    Ok anyway - so also climate change and CO2 emission. So George Bush or Trump whomever gets blamed, and it may be justifiable. But here's the thing. The US gets a lot of heat for shit that it's not fully responsible for. Now this is my opinion - and I'm open to correction - so I'm not here waving a placard angrily. just hear me out.

    So the reason the US doesn't want to impose more regulation is that even if we do, it incurs significant financial cost, which reduces our ability to compete in the marketplace - where we are significantly hindered already because of our cost to deliver goods and services vs China; further, the main reason is that if countries like China don't do anything or adhere to regulations, we are basically taking ourselves out of being a viable competitor on the world market when they need to do something. Change on our side would be minimal. China needs to step up their game. They literally have the vast majority of humans on the planet. We can be an example, but China doesn't care about that. They do their own thing; they care about their people's interest, just as we do.
    I took the freedom to put an important part of this in bold characters.
    You wrote the impact would be minimal, but the truth is that the US ranks number 2 worldwide when it comes to absolute CO2 emissions - even before India that has lots of more people. To think the more people the more CO2 emissions is wrong.
    If you take a look at the CO2 emission per capita you see why: The per capita CO2 emissions of the US is about 2.5 higher than that of China. US number 3, China number 12.
    It has also something to do with the degree of industrialization and lifestyle.

    These numbers are from 2016:

    Code:
    Rank Country Total emissions from fuel combustion Per capita emissions from fuel combustion
    1 China 9056.8MT 6.4T
    2 United States 4833.1MT 15.0T
    3 India 2076.8MT 1.6T
    4 Russian Federation 1438.6MT 9.9T
    5 Japan 1147.1MT 9.0T
    (Source: https://www.ucsusa.org/resources/eac...-co2-emissions)

    A friend of mine recently said: "The US and China are by far the worst polluters, let them begin taking measures." (FYI: I live in Germany, number 6 on the list, really bad considering how small our country is)
    So the US says "let China take steps first", China says "let the US begin", and all the others say "let the biggest players begin".
    If everyone thinks that way, nothing will happen though.

    Another argument one hears a lot recently is what you also wrote above: "ability to compete in the marketplace"
    However, if we carry on with doing business as usual there won't be a marketplace in the long run. It won't make much sense any more if the planet is not habitable for human life anymore.
    We cannot eat or breathe money.

    Our governments behave like someone who is in a burning house but refuses to use the fire extinguisher because he/she does not want to ruin his/her flatscreen TV with all the water.

    The source of this thinking is that a lot of people simply don't know the numbers. They think "It's not that bad as they say in the media."
    No, it is not that bad - it's worse.
    Over decades the oil industry has spent hundreds of millions of Dollars every year (!) for campaigns that give the public a false image. Watering down facts and numbers. Just to make profit.
    Governments don't do enough, because they just think about re-election and don't want to make unpopular decisions.



    =====================


    I don't think everyone needs to be an "Engaged Buddhist" (after all just another category that separates), and I would not call myself an Engaged Buddhist, since I don't like to put labels on things/people.
    However, it is absolutely compatible on an individual basis to incorporate in one's practice. To use it even as a foundation for one's practice.
    With our way of life humanity has violated the First Precept to the highest possible extent. In order to avoid doing harm we must treat our world better. There is no Earth 2.0 within our reach.

    I try to do my best to have a small CO2 footprint - not because I am Buddhist, but because I see it as my moral obligation as a human being.


    Buddhist practice, however, can give us the strength, means and foundation to act.

    Gassho,

    Daitetsu

    #sat2day
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Daitetsu; 10-31-2019 at 11:44 AM.
    no thing needs to be added

  12. #62
    Assuming of course climate change is occurring due to humans

    Gassho

    Rish
    -stlah

  13. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Risho View Post
    Assuming of course climate change is occurring due to humans
    It is not an assumption, it is a fact.

    A quote by the Union of Concerned Scientists:
    The scientific consensus is clear. Building on two previous studies, a landmark 2013 peer-reviewed study evaluated 10,306 scientists to confirm that over 97 percent climate scientists agree, and over 97 percent of scientific articles find that global warming is real and largely caused by humans.
    A more recent peer-reviewed paper examined existing studies on consensus in climate research, and concluded that the 97 percent estimate is robust.
    This level of consensus is equivalent to the level of agreement among scientists that smoking causes cancer – a statement that very few people, if any, contest today.

    (Source: Scientists Agree: Global Warming is Happening and Humans are the Primary Cause)


    That some people doubt that humans are responsible is a result of the campaigns launched by oil companies that I mentioned in my above post.

    The five biggest oil and gas companies, and their industry groups, have spent at least €251m (£217m) lobbying the European Union over climate policies since 2010, research has revealed.
    [ ... ]
    The report says the lobbying has succeeded in watering down EU climate legislation. Lobbying, it says, peaks at times when legislation is being drawn up. The oil and gas companies, and their industry groups had high spending in 2014 during the discussions over the EU’s 2030 climate targets, when they spent €34.3m on lobbying the EU institutions.

    The report says the climate targets were weakened as a result; they included no binding energy savings target and included a “woefully inadequate” renewable energy target.

    Source: Fossil fuel big five 'spent €251m lobbying EU' since 2010


    Another quote from UCS:

    The George W. Bush administration consistently sought to undermine the public’s understanding of the view held by the vast majority of climate scientists that human-caused emissions of carbon dioxide and other heat-trapping gases are making a discernible contribution to global warming.


    More about that here: Climate Change Research Distorted and Suppressed


    Gassho,

    Daitetsu

    #sat2day
    no thing needs to be added

  14. #64
    Shitou Xiqian had a very low carbon footprint.

    gassho
    doyu sat today
    特別な人ではない

  15. #65
    I could be on the wrong side of history here - but I'm suspicious; we've heard the sky is falling repeatedly throughout our history.

    We aren't even aware of all the changes and cause of changes in our environment and ecosystem.

    Things we think we know, we don't know.

    Gassho

    Rish
    -stlah

  16. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Doyū View Post
    Shitou Xiqian had a very low carbon footprint.

    gassho
    doyu sat today
    hahahhahahahah that's true!

  17. #67
    I usually direct folks to Nasa's page as they put it in terms that are easier for non-scientists to understand. If everyone had said, "uh, I dunno if I believe you guys" we would not have put people on the moon. Although, of course the conspiracy theorists do not believe that happened either.

    It only takes a few Scientists to agree enough to put this amazing technology in our hands that we use to talk to each other across the world, to put satellites in orbit that can pinpoint our exact location to the second to give us GPS, to increase our current survival rates from diseases and even increase our lifespans drastically from what they were just a few decades ago... but when pretty much all of them get together and say we are causing climate change, let's take the risk and tell them they need more proof? And the frustrating thing is that it isn't even complicated Science, it's just basic. Although they can track it to pretty sophisticated levels now too, if one is interested enough to educate themselves on the details.

    https://climate.nasa.gov/causes/

    Gassho,
    Jakuden
    SatToday/LAH
    清 道 寂田
    SEIDO JAKUDEN
    I am a novice priest. Any resemblance my posts may have to actual teachings about the Dharma, living or dead, is purely coincidental (and just my attempt to be helpful).

  18. #68
    Yeah I get it - but the "experts" have led us down false paths since the beginning of time. The "experts" tell us eating meat causes cancer, saturated fat and cholesterol are bad when they are in fact protective, that you need to eat a certain amount of portions or calories to lose weight (the cal in/out hypothesis), that taking a statin to lower cholesterol is good even though statin drugs are very harmful and have never been scientifically proven to help reduce cardiovascular events and have been correlated in an increase in dementia, and the same "experts" that tell their diabetic patients to make sure they eat enough carbs even when carbs are what causes the pancrease to release the most insulin.

    I know I'm switching topics to nutrition, but this is the same case where the purported "experts" who tow the company line do not know anything when it comes to human nutrition.

    So forgive me if I'm suspicious of experts that claim the world is ending; but of course I could be wrong

    Gassho

    Rish
    -stlay

  19. #69
    I think, sadly, the real problem is that everyone on the internet sounds like an "expert," so when there is real information there, the average person doesn't know how to discern fact from opinion. Unfortunately the solution to that is to rigorously incorporate education about this in school curricula, especially now in the age of the internet where someone can find pretty much any argument backed up by an "expert" that black is white and vice versa. If one is armed with the knowlege of how to find real facts and interpret them, then they can go right to the study information itself and see, for example, where current medical recommendations are generated.... there is a huge difference in conclusions that can be drawn based on number of studies, size of studies, types of methods used to study, etc. etc.

    A lot of those medical recommendations, for example, were perceived as "expert opinions" given all the hype in the media but at least in my case, my doctors actually come out and tell me "I base this medication recommendation on one study, so it may change in the future." Scientists naturally take into account degree of doubt in their conclusions, where to everyone else it is just a sea of "expert opinion."

    Gassho,
    Jakuden
    SatToday/LAH
    清 道 寂田
    SEIDO JAKUDEN
    I am a novice priest. Any resemblance my posts may have to actual teachings about the Dharma, living or dead, is purely coincidental (and just my attempt to be helpful).

  20. #70
    Assuming of course climate change is occurring due to humans
    Hi Risho

    It isn't an assumption but based on data and knowing the mechanism by which warming occurs.

    Given that we know that increased levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere causes higher global temperatures and the mechanism by which this happens, and that human activity has been releasing more and more CO2 in the past century, it is not even a particularly hard problem to understand why temperatures are rising in accordance with carbon dioxide levels.

    In my experience, raising doubts over the credibility of man-made global warming tends to come more from worries about the political implications of the fact that economic activity and environmental harm may be linked, something which is admittedly much easier for the left to accept and fundamentally challenges ideas around free-market economics.

    Given this, discussions of the science tend to be pointless but, in terms of engaged practice, it does not matter. For some people, environmental activism will form part of their practice and for others it will not. This is fine. I don't think it is for us to determine the political views of Treeleaf members or what aspects of society most concern them. For me, the importance of Engaged Buddhism is in the making our practice bigger than just ourselves. It does not have to adhere to any political colour or philosophy but does, I believe, require stepping outside of our own lives and acting with kindness and generosity to others in society in some way that accords with our bodhisattva vow. That can be to help at a food bank, supporting veterans, picking up litter in a local park or city centre, volunteering at an animal shelter or whatever works for you. This is not about politics but about helping sentient beings in a demonstrable way.

    At Treeleaf we have historically firmly encouraged engaged action to be part of our practice and designated days and weeks in which we set aside time to do just that. Even those of us who are physically unable to do many kinds of volunteer work have found ways of doing this.

    Maybe we could focus on what kind of engaged action we would be willing to undertake rather than the kinds that we disagree with? Or are there objections to making practical ways of helping people part of practice in general? Most of us are willing to spend a considerable amount of time sewing a rakusu, but are we as willing to put ourselves out into the world to make a difference to the lives of sentient beings, even if in just a small way?

    Gassho
    Kokuu
    -sattoday/lah-
    ------------------------------------
    Feel free to message me if you wish to talk about issues around practicing with physical limitations. This is something I have been sitting with for a fair while and am happy to help with suggestions or just offer a listening ear.

  21. #71
    yeah but then why isn't India and China in the lead? They have orders of magnitude more humans all releasing CO2?

  22. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Risho View Post
    yeah but then why isn't India and China in the lead? They have orders of magnitude more humans all releasing CO2?
    China is in the lead when it comes to total emissions.
    However, in the US the emissions per person is by the factor 2.5 higher than in China, which means the average American person produces more CO2 than the average Chinese person.

    Is has something to do with which kind of engergy sources and technologies are used and lifestyle among other things.

    More populous countries with some of the highest per capita emissions – and therefore high total emissions – are the United States, Australia, and Canada. Australia has an average per capita footprint of 17 tonnes, followed by the US at 16.2 tonnes, and Canada at 15.6 tonnes.

    This is more than 3 times higher than the global average, which in 2017 was 4.8 tonnes per person.

    Since there is such a strong relationship between income and per capita CO2 emissions, we’d expect this to be the case: that countries with high standards of living would have a high carbon footprint. But what becomes clear is that there can be large differences in per capita emissions, even between countries with similar standards of living. Many countries across Europe, for example, have much lower emissions than the US, Canada or Australia.

    (Source: Where in the world do people emit the most CO2?)



    Gassho,

    Daitetsu

    #sat2day
    no thing needs to be added

  23. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Risho View Post
    yeah but then why isn't India and China in the lead? They have orders of magnitude more humans all releasing CO2?
    I think Daitetsu answered that question above! If you are truly interested in learning more about this topic, there are some good links posted here in the thread now... otherwise, Kokuu’s advice about finding an engaged activity that meshes with your own practice is great. For those who have chosen Mahayana Buddhist practice such as Zen, engaged activity is important, no matter how small or large. It is time to sit with what has been said and for each of us to make our own decisions about what activities to pursue, and which to leave to others.

    Gassho
    Jakuden
    SatToday/LAH


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    清 道 寂田
    SEIDO JAKUDEN
    I am a novice priest. Any resemblance my posts may have to actual teachings about the Dharma, living or dead, is purely coincidental (and just my attempt to be helpful).

  24. #74
    For those who have chosen Mahayana Buddhist practice such as Zen, engaged activity is important, no matter how small or large. It is time to sit with what has been said and for each of us to make our own decisions about what activities to pursue, and which to leave to others.
    ------------------------------------
    Feel free to message me if you wish to talk about issues around practicing with physical limitations. This is something I have been sitting with for a fair while and am happy to help with suggestions or just offer a listening ear.

  25. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Jakuden View Post
    For those who have chosen Mahayana Buddhist practice such as Zen, engaged activity is important, no matter how small or large. It is time to sit with what has been said and for each of us to make our own decisions about what activities to pursue, and which to leave to others.

    Gassho
    krissy
    SToday/lah
    Thank you for teaching me.

    I am very much a beginner and appreciate any words you may give me.

  26. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Risho View Post
    The "experts" tell us eating meat causes cancer, saturated fat and cholesterol are bad when they are in fact protective, that you need to eat a certain amount of portions or calories to lose weight (the cal in/out hypothesis), that taking a statin to lower cholesterol is good even though statin drugs are very harmful and have never been scientifically proven to help reduce cardiovascular events and have been correlated in an increase in dementia, and the same "experts" that tell their diabetic patients to make sure they eat enough carbs even when carbs are what causes the pancrease to release the most insulin.

    I know I'm switching topics to nutrition, but this is the same case where the purported "experts" who tow the company line do not know anything when it comes to human nutrition.

    So forgive me if I'm suspicious of experts that claim the world is ending; but of course I could be wrong
    Science does seem to have a bit of a PR problem and unless you're a scientist yourself or you're immersed in the world of academic research it's perfectly understandable why anyone might think the experts are confused (at best) or even maliciously deceiving the public to push an agenda (at worst). I honestly believe the real problem lies with how scientific studies and findings are reported by mainstream media which does not understand how science is done; they pick up on some neat bit of "gossip" from the science world and run with it and there's no sense of literacy there. So we end up with having a new study every other year that says coffee is either good for you or bad for you. Which begs the question: How is the average person supposed to make sense of any of this?

    In my opinion: They should stop getting their science news from mainstream sources. Mainstream sources, again, don't care about educating or informing - they care about viewership because viewership means ad revenue which means $$$ for them. They should not be trusted sources when it comes to studies being done about nutrition, climate, physics, astronomy, or anything of the sort. They are, at best, tabloid magazines sensationalizing things that only may be true in part.

    To get a better understanding of what's really going on, there are free sources which are much better. There are YouTube channels like Seeker, SciShow, PBS SpaceTime, Crash Course, It's Okay to Be Smart, and more. These channels are focused on education (while being entertaining) rather than getting attention for those ad revenue dollars.

    Channels like these often take care to explain when more research is needed, how one study may or may not be valid depending on methods used to reach conclusions, how other studies contradict one another and why that may be the case, etc.

    Then there are philosophical/debunking YouTube Channels like HBomberGuy who investigate claims made against hot-topic issues like climate change and who shows his research, methodology, and uses logical deconstruction to show where other views are weak or even incorrect. He's also an entertainer so his videos tend to be "flashier" than a serious academic investigation (he is on YouTube after all). A good example of this would be his video Climate Denial: A Measured Response.

    I realize not everyone has the time to watch a ton of videos, and it's not my intention to suggest that you do - we all have busy lives and can't necessarily find the spare time to sit down and watch these things. By bringing up these sources I hope to start to point others in the right direction. Channels like Seeker and SciShow tend to do shorter videos in and around the 5-minute mark so they're pretty easy to digest once or twice a day and, over time, I think they're pretty effective at giving a clearer view of what is actually going on in the world of scientific research and academia.

    Gassho
    Sen
    Sat|LAH
    "Air stays fresh when it’s moving."

  27. #77
    Again, I have to bring this conversation back to Zen Practice, no matter how we each personally feel about the question of Global Warming.

    If there is global warming, if the land will flood and most of the animals will vanish (including us), and whether or not humankind is the cause ... sit Zazen and let it be.

    And if there is no global warming, if the land will not flood, if the animals will flourish, and/or if humankind is totally innocent ... sit Zazen and let it be.

    In either case, all composite things are impermanent, this earth and our lives upon it, all the plants and trees are only here for a time, long or short. What is more, there is something tasted in Zazen that is beyond all time, at the source of all hot and cold, free of passing ages, without coming nor going, sweeping in all people, plants and trees, their thriving and dying ... and we sit Zazen here.

    At that point, when the bell rings, getting up from the Zafu sitting cushion, some folks may wish to march and install solar panels, believe the scientific data and move higher up the mountain.

    ... while others may wish to stay in their house not far from the beach in Florida (where Risho lives by the way, in Tampa, so he will have to live the Karma of his beliefs I suppose ) enjoying a high fat burger.

    We already have one or two threads in this Forum dedicated to those who would like to make environmental issues part of their Practice ...

    Living Earth
    https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/show...0-Living-Earth

    ECO-Life
    https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/show...17002-ECO-Life

    Those folks feel that it is their calling to help clean the planet, just in the same way that monks in a temple make it their practice to sweep the floors, wash their bowls and tend the garden. However, participation there is purely optional, and it will not resonate with all our members to join there.

    Zen practice is a strange beast: We may seek to stop a war, take medicine to cure a disease, prevent violence against children ... yet somehow when we sit, we sit as that which is at the center and beyond all disease, war, violence and other suffering. Then, getting up, we get back to stopping war and violence, curing the disease. We may not all agree on the means and medicine however.

    Gassho, J

    STLah

    PS - Ya can't trust those Nasa guys anyway, as they faked the moon landing. (Just kidding)
    https://www.space.com/apollo-11-moon...believers.html

    PPS - As a former Florida resident I will also say that, should the whole place vanish ... well, it is not only a bad thing.
    Last edited by Jundo; 11-01-2019 at 01:16 AM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  28. #78
    Thank you Jundo

    Gassho
    Jakuden
    SatToday/LAH


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    清 道 寂田
    SEIDO JAKUDEN
    I am a novice priest. Any resemblance my posts may have to actual teachings about the Dharma, living or dead, is purely coincidental (and just my attempt to be helpful).

  29. #79
    Treeleaf Unsui / Engineer Sekishi's Avatar
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    Apr 2013
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    Virginia, USA
    Quote Originally Posted by Risho View Post
    PS - I'm sorry I keep responding to these; I tell myself not to respond, you don't need the last word all the time, but this discussion is just very compelling and my storehouse consciousness won't let me stop. hahahahah
    And then you took action, allowing the seeds to bare fruit, planting future seeds. And then I responded, and ... D'OH!

    Gassho,
    Sekishi
    #sat
    sekishi
    石志

    As a novice priest-in-training, this is simply an expression of my opinion. Please take it with a grain of salt.

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