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Thread: Insight Timer, FSR Hangouts, vs Old-School ?

  1. #1

    Insight Timer, FSR Hangouts, vs Old-School ?

    I tried doing a search on this topic but didn't find one specifically related. Would like the sangha's thoughts .....

    I've generally used Insight Timer to "time" zazen at dawn, followed by posting (usually, when i remember) in TreeLeaf Insight group. Sometimes I use Hangouts FSR, but often I do not, because Insight and Hangouts seem not to play nicely together on my phone.

    After some recent discussions here (forum), I've been reevaluating my practice and the direction i'm going, and decided to try some things. Experiments, just to see what works, what doesn't. I have the dedicated morning practice settled for months, so I'm tweaking a bit.

    I've been using Insight Timer to record morning zazen. But I do "impromptu zazen" at other times of the day/night, and sometimes before bed, and don't record it, so Insight is often irrelevant -- it doesn't give the whole story. Some mornings I zazen but don't record because i just don't feel like it. But since it does a "track record", that makes it look like i'm missing days or only zazen a little, but that's not true.

    It kind of bugs me.

    I'm thinking of ditching the Timer part, just posting in TreeLeaf group because I like the community "check-in" feeling (Hi all, just sat with you) ..... using Hangouts and hoping it works well alone, and using the Timer setting built into my phone. I have to use a timer of some sort -- I go right from zazen to work (tutoring), which is why I had relied on Insight.

    Does anyone use just a regular timer (not Insight) with Hangouts and have success with it? Or some other method? I'm wondering what works for others that doesn't involve "keeping score" of zazen sessions, which i am not interested in at this point. I am focusing on deepening and expanding my practice, not how many days i am building up.

    I hope this makes sense -- I often know what I want to say, but it tends to come out rather garbled (Working on this.)

    And if this post needs to be re-titled or placed elsewhere -- please do or explain to me.

    gassho
    kim
    st lh
    "Not all those who wander are lost." (J.R.R. Tolkien)

  2. #2
    I believe you can add times manually to your Insight account. I haven't done it yet though and don't record my off the cuff sits: https://help.insighttimer.com/hc/en-...Timer-session-

    I hear you re hangouts and insight timer, I think insight sometimes cuts off my hangouts feed. The Zazenkai is always a challenge too running hangouts, insight and youtube all at once on my phone all while trying not to wake everyone up and scare them with the strange sound of chanting coming from the living room!

    Gassho,

    Neil

    StLaH

  3. #3
    Hello Kim

    I use an Android app called zazen meditation timer. It doesn't keep track of anything. It lets me set different bells (including intermediate bells, good for zazenkai as YouTube sometimes pauses silently). I find insight timer busy and feature heavy, which is not helpful.

    The free sitting room is nice. I don't sit there often due to my internet connection. I usually bow at the end of a sit to all of you for joining me in sitting, whenever and wherever that may be.

    Gassho,

    Nanrin

    Sat

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by allwhowander View Post

    It kind of bugs me.

    It bugged me too, so I deliberately continued to deal with it. In fact, it used to bother me enough that I wanted to turn off Insight's little "star" rating counting how many times you sat in a row, etc. But since it bothered me, I left it there, and just sat with the days I missed for whatever reason and didn't get the gold star. Now I am liberated from caring about gold stars or tracking sits or whatever.
    There is no "story" of doing Zazen, it just is, when it is and how it is, and then it is gone and forgotten!

    Gassho,
    Jakuden
    SatToday/LAH
    清 道 寂田
    SEIDO JAKUDEN
    I am a novice priest. Any resemblance my posts may have to actual teachings about the Dharma, living or dead, is purely coincidental (and just my attempt to be helpful).

  5. #5
    Hi Kim,
    I had the same problem with Insight Timer and Hangouts. The apps simply don't wor together. I try to sit in the SSR whenever possible, but sometimes I use only the Insight Timer when my schedule doesn't allow for the SSR. Sometimes I sit in the FSR using my computer and set the Insight Timer on my phone, but it is not very convenient, as it takes some 10 or 15 minutes to change my computer from my working table to the side of the zafu. I couldn't find a timer app that works with the Hangouts, and my phone alarm don't have nice bell sounds to use. Thank you for posting this thread, you are not alone in this.
    Gassho,
    Mateus
    Sat today/LAH

  6. #6
    I use insight timer but no longer log my times as I always sit for a minimum of 30 minutes a day, usually a lot longer so I don't need to track the sits over time. It's useful to give interval bells to remind me to bring my attention back. I also like the options for different timing sessions. Some sanghas use 50/30/20 minute sits.
    That way I can label them by the sangha.
    SAT/LAH

    Kyousui - strong waters 強 水

  7. #7
    I haven’t tried Hangouts yet (only done one way thus far) but I picked up using Insight timer shortly after I joined here. I was using a basic timer before (Meditation Timer Pro, it was like $2 years ago). It tracks you too and gives averages and such and I encountered the same personal issue of being bothered by trying to keep track of it and remembering to use it and add in my missed times manually. However.. it didn’t have any social aspect to it and I have really been consistent with using Insight when I sit now because I know I’m sitting with the sangha and having everyone here that is on Insight in mind helps me remember to use the app. I like the features on Insight more than what I have on my other app - better sounds and options - being able to sit for an unknown amount of time and then end it when you are finished is really nice too (and being able to sit longer if you wish without messing up the log).

    Another thing I’ve enjoyed about it is I’ve discovered other people sitting within an hour or so of me that I end up sitting at the same time with. It’s refreshing to know there is general interest in meditation growing near me.

    Gassho /\
    Kendrick
    Sat/lah
    Last edited by Kendrick; 06-29-2019 at 01:42 AM.

  8. #8
    Iíve spent far too much time thinking about Insight Timer but since you raised the topic....

    As many of you would know, I used to sit and post daily to Insight Timer but I stopped about a year ago. Truth is I stopped a few times, even deleted my account once. Why? Well multiple reasons actually

    - I donít like that it tracks my sitting statistics ... I find that more of a hindrance than a motivator. This is even with the milestones turned off
    - I am very concerned about internet privacy. The nature of my day job makes me very aware of the daily breeches in privacy and personal information on the web. I have no confidence in Insight Timerís ability to protect that data. (And yes everything you do on Insight Timer is being logged to a database)
    - like others have said about sitting I wasnít clear on whether I should post after every sit or once a day. What if I sat multiple times? Do I post after each? It is a weird thing to get stressed
    - As they piled on new features to IT I found it was getting slower and more frustrating to use
    - (the straw that broke the camelĒs back). Some update about a year ago started killing my phoneís battery.

    I do miss posting to the Sanghaís board and I feel like I am some how disconnected from the rest of you but I wonít go back to it. I took some time to find an alternative and settled on the Belfast Zazen Timer which I am quite happy with. It has nice bells and no features I donít need.

    I donít mean to steer anyone away from IT. If it works for you then thatís great.


    Tairin
    Sat today and lah
    泰林 - Tai Rin - Peaceful Woods

  9. #9
    Member Seishin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    La Croix-Avranchin, Basse Normandie, France
    After multiple Insight Hangouts conflicts, here's my approach : Insight Time on tablet, Hangouts on Phone, Zazenkai on demand via PC (I sit in the Study/Den).
    Also Insight on phone for random sits, like carzen. I like to use the timer, so I can thank friends and snagha member for sitting with.
    When Insight has hung mid session, I've added the sit manually afterwards - Profile -> See detailed charts => hit three dots top right hand corner -> Add session, which is self explanatory once in. Hope that may help folks.


    Seishin

    Sei - Meticulous
    Shin - Heart

  10. #10
    i like insight timer and the logging of the statistics. It motivates me - and i know i am a big boy with toys - not to skip a day. i am sitting now for almost two years every day for 2 x 25 minutes and i am sure (knowing my sitting history for 38 years) without Insight timer i wouldn't have done that (did i say i know i am a big boy with toys ? )



    aprapti

    sattoday (with IS )

    Meister Eckhart ĎNothing in all creation is so like God as stillness.í

  11. #11
    Stone age sitter here. No smart phone. Am I missing an essential layer of Treeleaf?

    gassho
    doyu sat today
    土友 上人 ... 特別な人ではない

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Doyū View Post
    Stone age sitter here. No smart phone. Am I missing an essential layer of Treeleaf?

    gassho
    doyu sat today

    Insight Timer is like the doorway into the Treeleaf Zendo. You bump into other members and share a quick exchange as you finish your daily sit.
    Last edited by Tairin; 06-29-2019 at 03:19 PM. Reason: Tweaked my analogy
    泰林 - Tai Rin - Peaceful Woods

  13. #13
    You might consider me as the silent one bowing in the doorless doorway, I guess.

    gassho
    doyu sat today
    土友 上人 ... 特別な人ではない

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Doyū View Post
    Stone age sitter here. No smart phone. Am I missing an essential layer of Treeleaf?

    gassho
    doyu sat today
    Itís the Koan of Treeleaf, we are everywhere and nowhere, all the time but timeless, using new technologies but sitting like Dogen sat.
    Gassho
    Jakuden
    SatToday/LAH


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    清 道 寂田
    SEIDO JAKUDEN
    I am a novice priest. Any resemblance my posts may have to actual teachings about the Dharma, living or dead, is purely coincidental (and just my attempt to be helpful).

  15. #15
    This is why I post my (weird??) questions Such a variety of great ideas (and funny ones also).

    Yes, I also have men in my life who love their "toys" (gadgets!) -- husband and father both love their toys.

    After reading the ideas here ..... I changed my zazen arrangement. Now using phone for Insight Timer and laptop for FSR Hangouts (screen likes to go dark, but I can't have everything, right?). But Hangouts is not kicking me out now, yay!!

    I still have to remember to post in TreeLeaf Insight group, but that's usually because I go right from zazen to preparing for work shortly after. The reason I stay with Insight is because I love the TreeLeaf Insight group -- I guess it's how some people cherish their Starbucks in the morning? I like being able to "check-in and say hi" and see everyone also saying "just sat" or sharing a little story of their zazen time -- it always makes me smile and feel more connected to my "TreeLeaf family" around the world. And if all is not well in TreeLeaf world, then we get to share Metta as well, and it warms my heart to do so, whether or not I can post it at the time, I send metta.

    So TreeLeaf Insight lets me know that "all is right with the world" and my day feels better because of it. Even if I can't post until later (or forget completely). Or is that an attachment also .... hmmmm.

    Jakuden, you brought up something I never considered -- the attachment to avoidance and the attachment to achievement ..... never thought of that! So I have added that to my list of things I am working on

    Glad I'm not the only one who had this difficulty

    gassho
    kim
    st lh
    "Not all those who wander are lost." (J.R.R. Tolkien)

  16. #16
    Member Seishin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    La Croix-Avranchin, Basse Normandie, France
    . Now using phone for Insight Timer and laptop for FSR Hangouts (screen likes to go dark, but I can't have everything, right?). But Hangouts is not kicking me out now, yay!!
    Kim

    Is it hangouts itself going dark or just the whole screen. It could just be a matter of adjusting the display settings I tend to have my "sleep" setting set at 2 hours. Not sure if that helps.


    Seishin

    Sei - Meticulous
    Shin - Heart

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Jakuden View Post
    It bugged me too, so I deliberately continued to deal with it. In fact, it used to bother me enough that I wanted to turn off Insight's little "star" rating counting how many times you sat in a row, etc. But since it bothered me, I left it there, and just sat with the days I missed for whatever reason and didn't get the gold star. Now I am liberated from caring about gold stars or tracking sits or whatever.
    There is no "story" of doing Zazen, it just is, when it is and how it is, and then it is gone and forgotten!

    Gassho,
    Jakuden
    SatToday/LAH
    Thank you Jakuden

    Gassho/SatToday
    流道
    Ryū Dou

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Doyū View Post
    You might consider me as the silent one bowing in the doorless doorway, I guess.

    gassho
    doyu sat today

    I will now notice your presence even if not in "Insight" or the "FSR" Doyu

    Gassho/SatToday
    流道
    Ryū Dou

  19. #19


    gassho
    doyu sat today
    土友 上人 ... 特別な人ではない

  20. #20
    Treeleaf Unsui Geika's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    San Diego County, California
    My Insight Timer stats don't reflect my sitting habits at all... so I doubt anyone is looking at the stats and thinking, hmm... they don't sit as much as they say! I wouldn't worry about it.

    Gassho

    Sat today, lah
    求道芸化 Kyudo Geika
    I am just a priest-in-training, please do not take anything I say as a teaching.

  21. #21
    I miss the old timers we had here many years ago.
    Dave _/\_ ST/LAH

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Shonin View Post
    I miss the old timers we had here many years ago.
    Dave _/\_ ST/LAH
    You are old!

    Well, the timer is long gone (as is, alas, Nyogetsu Seldin, the shakuhachi master who donated his performance to us), but we still have the closing theme ... Please sit for old time's sake ...

    https://soundcloud.com/user-86634669...i-final-mixmp3

    Let's dedicate our Zazenkai tomorrow to Master Nyogetsu. A shout out too to John S. the original designer of Treeleaf 1.0 in 2006, who made a really nifty JAVA animation of an incense stick that burned down as we sat.

    Oh, and the bells to start sitting!

    https://soundcloud.com/user-86634669...mixshortvermp3

    Gassho, J

    STLah
    Last edited by Jundo; 07-12-2019 at 02:34 AM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  23. #23
    Treeleaf Unsui Geika's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    San Diego County, California
    Wow... nostalgic. I really miss the old color scheme. Anybody have any screenshots?

    Gassho

    Sat today, lah
    求道芸化 Kyudo Geika
    I am just a priest-in-training, please do not take anything I say as a teaching.

  24. #24
    Old? Im only 43 on Sat. and yes I know who else dings another year so...there's that I really miss the bells and incense sticks.

    Geika- I dont fully remember the color scheme so you'll have to remind me but I recall it being more green? Is that right?

    _/\_ Dave ST/LAH

  25. #25
    OMG I just listened to that shakuhachi track and book marked it. When I first heard it when new to Treeleaf i downloaded it into my crappy $10 mp3 player and would play it at work during the mornings while my coworkers and i were all doing our morning prep chores before the lunch rush when i started to get heated and about to blow my top.Helped me relax and get back to slicing meat and cheese for the day. On breaks I listened to it to help me meditate.Rednecks cracking jokes about what I was doin having no clue and i could sit right through it no anger.

    _/\_ Dave ST/LAH

  26. #26
    Treeleaf Unsui Geika's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    San Diego County, California
    Quote Originally Posted by Shonin View Post
    Old? Im only 43 on Sat. and yes I know who else dings another year so...there's that I really miss the bells and incense sticks.

    Geika- I dont fully remember the color scheme so you'll have to remind me but I recall it being more green? Is that right?

    _/\_ Dave ST/LAH
    It was like browns and maroons and greens, I think...

    Gassho

    Sat today, lah
    求道芸化 Kyudo Geika
    I am just a priest-in-training, please do not take anything I say as a teaching.

  27. #27
    Must one have a timer at all? Is Treeleaf not with me during every minute of my day? All Buddhas throughout space and time, etc., etc.?

    I am sick of my data life. Everything is beeping and buzzing, and I spend useless moments consulting graphs about my habits. Today is more than yesterday but tomorrow will be less. Why bother with this information at all? I'm trying to disown it little by little.

    In the morning, I have the birds. By late afternoon, the cicadas. When the sun goes down, the crickets sing. These are the best timers.

    Gassho,
    Kate the Grump

    sat.lah
    Kate

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Kate View Post
    Must one have a timer at all? Is Treeleaf not with me during every minute of my day? All Buddhas throughout space and time, etc., etc.?

    I am sick of my data life. Everything is beeping and buzzing, and I spend useless moments consulting graphs about my habits. Today is more than yesterday but tomorrow will be less. Why bother with this information at all? I'm trying to disown it little by little.

    In the morning, I have the birds. By late afternoon, the cicadas. When the sun goes down, the crickets sing. These are the best timers.

    Gassho,
    Kate the Grump

    sat.lah
    I am with you at this point in my sitting career. Unless at a formal group sitting such as our Zazenkai, I just sit most days as long as I feel like sitting. There is also an inner "clock" that is not far wrong.

    Yes, nice to "unplug."

    Before clocks, Zen monks used to measure sitting time by how long the incense burned, but then I guess one would have to look over at the incense. However, they did not have watches and such, so when just sitting under a tree or alone, I am sure they just sat.

    Remember, whether using a "timer" or not ... always sit beyond measure of time, dropping "Long" and "Short" from mind, with one instant of sitting holding all the time and timeless of the universe! Really.

    SIT-A-LONG with Jundo: Why Zen Folks FAIL!! (5) - Watching The Clock Rackin Up Points
    https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/show...ckin-Up-Points

    Gassho, J

    STLah
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

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