Strange Zazen Experiences?

[Victor]

Hello all! Many bows to you all and much love.

The last two times I have sat, I have experienced strange sensations during zazen. Colors streaming in my vision, strong vibrations in my body, and a light ringing in my ears mark the primary experience I had. Today, I even heard a female voice speak a word or two in my left ear of a language I don't know. It sounded almost Japanese but I'm not sure.

I sometimes hear that these experiences are common and are generally to be left alone as they are, but I wanted to ask everyone here what their experience of this has been and what you all may suggest I do, if anything.

Gassho,
Victor

[Mitka]

I've had these as well. I believe they are termed makyo: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makyo . Sometimes they can be blissful, sometimes frightening. Mine have just strange, after images falling into themselves and once I saw what looked like social media posts on the wall (almost could read them). I think the main danger in them is that they can become a hindrance: if you get makyo that fills you with bliss you may attempt to cling to that feeling and sit zazen just to return to that place, which of course, is not a good reason to sit. I know very little about this however, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

Gassho,
Mitka
SAT

[Victor]

Thank you, Mitka! I believe I have heard this term.
Blissful or not, it can still be tempting to dwell too much on these experiences during zazen. I had to remind myself not to pursue to but to just sit with it.

[Rich]

Whatever you have been taught is engraved in your mind, your subconscious. When sitting things bubble up to the surface. Just watch them and return to just sitting. Happy trails

Sat/lah


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[Rich]

Also, Buddha said you don’t need any dreams, visions, beliefs or opinions. He called it right view. Seeing things just as they are. It’s kind of difficult but the only way to the truth


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[Victor]

Thanks so much, Rich! I'll keep that in mind.
Gassho

[Jundo]

Hi Victor,

Here is the short and the long post on Makyo. Silence and/or falling half asleep or into a dreamy state can cause the brain to play tricks, tinnitus and other sensations to become noticeable in the silence and stillness that were masked before. If it just happens once in awhile, and does not seem particularly upsetting or disturbing, I would not worry. If it persists, perhaps we need to think what it could be.

Some other meditation traditions may assign all kinds of meanings and energies to such things but, alas, I think we Soto Zen folks are rather down to earth before resorting to that.


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THE SHORT VERSION

Ah, the mind playing tricks! I recently had the wavy carpet effect (described below) sitting in a hotel room with a bad carpet ...

All manner of sensory "tricks" can occur during Zazen. Sensory deprivation, and really paying attention to objects of sight that we usually do not pay attention to (the patterns on the carpet, for example) can have such an effect. These things usually are connected to the mechanics of the visual sense, and often beyond our control. It is just an optical illusion.

Seeing patterns on the carpet or wall you are looking at, and floor undulation, is kind of like this effect produced by a bad carpet:

https://web.archive.org/web/20120318...-illusion.html

Another common effect is to see "spots in the eyes". Most are there all along (floating impurities, early cataracts and such of the eyeball itself), but we just do not notice them until we sit still. Many are just the "cones and rods" of the eye that were there all along. The cones and rods of color, for example, are always present in our eyes, but we do not give them notice so often in day to day life. In Zazen, what is always there just stands out sometimes, and the brain plays some tricks by seeing "connect the dot" patterns.

The eyes contain cones and rods for color that we usually do not notice (but, if you look at any object closely, you will see little dots of color, much like the picture tube of a color tv):

http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/retina.html

The sensory deprivation effect at staring at the white surface just brings the little dots to our attention, and they play pattern tricks in the brain.

Like a new pair of glasses, the brain will adjust and soon not notice the dots as much. Maybe we are subconsciously looking for the patterns, and thus noticing the patterns. If we just forget about them, they usually go away.

The brain tends to try to recognize objects in formless patterns such as we see the "man in the moon" or bunny rabbits in clouds or Jesus on a piece of toast. There is even a scientific name for it: Pareidolia

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-22686500

However, visual hallucinations are common in Zazen. Not a worry, nor of any particular importance other than as an amusement, possibly with a small lesson about how we create the world through the senses. What you are seeing is a fine lesson on how the mind can create a sense of reality. Learn that lesson, and return to just sitting. (My suggestion to a person seeing patterns on a carpet was to change the place where sitting to some wall or floor with less pattern suggestion, more monotone and a different color.

My tinnitus becomes very pronounced during the quiet of sitting. As well, a little "carpal tunnel" I have in the hands, and my old football injury in the knees, becomes noticeable when I stop moving and just sit in open awareness.

If you would like to read a much longer post on "Makyo" illusions during Zazen, as well as psychological experiences, I will paste it below.

Gassho, Jundo

SatTodayLAH

PS - And, yes, if any idea that it might be a symptom of a more serious health issue, see your physician.

[Jundo]

THE LONG VERSION:

I have had many similar experiences scattered over the years, my body feeling very large or spaceless, a sense of floating. Once, a tiny Buddha popped out of the wall and we had a little conversation. In the Zen world, it is typical not to pay any special attention to such times.

In Zen Practice, we have to be careful of certain games the mind will play during Zazen once in awhile ... including unusual visual and auditory sensations, brief periods of paranoia or panic, memories arising from deep down in our subconscious. Once, during a Sesshin, I became irate inside because I felt the monk at Sojiji sitting next to me was "encroaching on my space". I once had a little Buddha pop out of the wall and chat with me for several minutes (I pinched myself ... he stayed!), and felt like I was floating in the air. It is common during Sesshin, because of the strains involved, the "sensory deprivation", to experience such things as emotional swings, hearing becoming so sharp you can be disturbed by an ant walking across the room, strange bodily sensations such as feelings of floating or being giant sized, and paranoia.

Do not drive them away or forcefully push them out ... neither grab them, cling to them or stir them up. If finding oneself doing any of that, simply open the hand of thought and let them go.

If it happens once in awhile, it is not a particular concern ... just an interesting moment. If it happens very often, we may need to see what you are doing or what is going on that may be causing such experiences.

-------------------------------

All manner of sensory "tricks" can occur during Zazen. Some are quite interesting, as seems this one. We may note them, but do not particlarly encourage them in our little corner of Buddhist meditation. ...

In Zen Practice, we have to be careful of certain games the mind will play during Zazen once in awhile ... including unusual visual and auditory sensations, brief periods of paranoia or panic, memories arising from deep down in our subconscious. We are not used to the stillness and quiet of Zazen, and it lets certain memories, emotions, fears and like psychological states rise to the surface ... or allows some things (spots in our eyes that are always there even though not usually noticed, background sounds) to be noticed that are usually blocked out by all the noise and busyness in our heads, senses and around us.

If it is just once in awhile ... and if you are aware of this, and it was not too overwhelming ... then I do not think it cause for worry. If it becomes too overwhelming, break off that sitting and take a little time off until you cool down. If it becomes a regular event, or too profound, that may be a sign of something else that needs to be approached. But, once in awhile ... I would not be concerned.

We tend to call such things "Makyo", defined as follows (by Daido Loori Roshi). He speaks of hallucinatory like experiences ...

In Zen, hallucinations are called makyo. It is not unusual for practitioners sitting in meditation for long periods of time to experience makyo. Some people feel like they are levitating, others see visions of the Buddha bathed in light, some hear sounds or voices. This in itself is not a problem. The problem arises when we confuse these experiences with enlightenment. When students come to me in dokusan to give me elaborate description of their makyo, a common response from me could be something like, “Oh, don’t worry about it—it will go away. Maybe you’re not sitting straight.” In other words, don’t attach to it. But if a dream is real, why isn’t makyo real? Are dreams, makyo, enlightenment and delusion the same, or are they different?

We learn from all these experience ... we learn how the mind is like a theatre, and creates our experience of the life-world.

I also posted this once ...

Sensory deprivation, and really paying attention to objects of sight that we usually do not pay attention to (the patterns on the carpet, for example) can have such an effect. These things usually are connected to the mechanics of the visual sense, and often beyond our control. It is just an optical illusion.

A dry as toast, but good book on the topic is Dr. Austin's Zen and the Brain ... he has a discussion of all manner of hallucinations here (from about page 373).

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...EJTUDyJTKBdEnA

More here ...

Hallucinations and Illusions

Kornfield (1979, 1983) noted that there was a strong correlation between student reports of higher levels of concentration during insight meditation, when the mind was focused and steady, and reports of altered states and perceptions. He reported that unusual experiences, such as visual or auditory aberrations and hallucinations, and unusual somatic experiences, are the norm among practiced meditation students. Walsh (1978) reported that he experienced hypnagogic hallucinations, and Goleman (1978-79) reported visionary experiences during deep meditation. Shimano and Douglas (1975) reported hallucinations similar to toxic delirium during zazen.

... Earlier, Deikman (1966a) reported that during meditation on a blue vase, his subjects' perception of color became more intense or luminous, and that for some of them the vase changed shape, appeared to dissolve, or lost its boundaries. Maupin (1965) reported that meditators sometimes experience "hallucinoid feelings, muscle tension, sexual excitement, and intense sadness."

The contemplative literature contains numerous descriptions of the perceptual distortion produced by meditation. It is called makyo in Zen Buddhist sources, and is characterized in some schools as "going to the movies," a sign of spiritual intensity but a phenomenon that is regarded to be distinctly inferior to the clear insight of settled practice. In some Hindu schools it is regarded as a product of the sukshma sharira, or "experience body," in its unstable state, and in that respect is seen to be another form of maya, which is the illusory nature of the world as apprehended by ordinary consciousness.

In a similar manner, St. John of the Cross described the false enchantments that may lure the aspirant in prayer, warning that "devils may come in the guise of angels." [51] In his allegory of the spiritual journey, The Pilgrim's Progress, John Bunyan described Christian's losing his way by following a man who says he is going to the Celestial City but instead leads him into a net. In all the great contemplative manuals, one is taught that detachment, equanimity, and discrimination are required for spiritual balance once the mind has been opened and made more flexible by prayer and meditation. Illusions and hallucinations, whether they are troubling or beatific, are distractions—or signposts at best—on the way to enlightenment or union with God.

http://noetic.org/meditation-bibliog...iography-info/

Move along folks ... nothing to look at here! :-)

Actually, it is all a fine lesson in how the body-mind-self-world are all interconnected.

What we are seeing or experiencing is a fine lesson on how the mind can create a sense of reality. Learn that lesson, and return to just sitting.

Gassho, Jundo

STLah

[Jishin]

Hi,

I think that perceptual distortions limited to sitting are most likely not a problem.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Tai Do]

When I first started sitting zazen, I used to have a feeling that my head was big and my body small (or the opposite). With time it went away. Now I sometimes see concentric circles of different colors, sometimes collapsing on each other. But most of the time my vision simply blurs a little (I have myopia and generally take of my glasses for sitting zazen) or gets darker as if it was night and not day. Other times I start to see patterns of faces or animals in the little imperfections of the wall. I don’t pay them much attention, but sometimes I want to experience again the feeling of having a big head as I did years ago (it never returned, though).
Gassho,
Mateus
Sat today/LAH

[Victor]

Thanks so much for your answers, everyone! For now, I will pay no special attention to the makyo, but I will ask again if it becomes an overly recurring issue.

Gassho

[Jundo]

I will point out one more fact about Makyo that I have noticed over the years. I don't think this applies to Victor or anyone specifically perhaps, so I am only speaking generally.

Some folks are a bit obsessive in the Zen world about "doing things right" and small details. I think that this is sometimes excellent for aspects of Zen practice, because there are many practices in Japanese culture where people strive to "do thing right" in very proper form ... a ceremony, bowing, Zazen posture exactly right .... and focus on the small details. So, sometimes it makes for a very beautiful monk who moves with grace and poise through intricate ceremonies like a ballet dancer.

However, it also can lead to a kind of "obsessive-compulsive" fixation on getting "perfect" posture, etc. in Zazen, It can be too tight.

I like to say that, instead, we should sit not too loose and not too tight. Posture should be balanced and stable, but comfortable without obsessing. One sits awake and alert, but meither straining and pushing hard, nor dull and dreary. Diligently sitting with nothing to reach for.

So, what does this have to do with Makyo?

Well, I notice that some folks during Zazen are particularly sensitive or obsessive-compulsive about noticing and focusing on small stuff ... a small sound, a small spot drifting in the eyes, a usually ignored sensation. They overly focus and latch on to it, and it becomes magnified. What is minor, or always present but not a matter of attention, suddenly becomes the center of attention and 10x bigger. Got the point?

In such a case, just relax, let it go, release one's mental grip and just sit.

Gassho, J

STLah