Living with Uncertainty and Hardship

[Anka]

Hello all,

It seems like one of the themes of this year's Ango is questioning of the path. Personally this ango has brought up concerns if this is the practice I want to dedicate to. We have also seen a few members taking a break or moving on to something new.

Yesterday Jakuden and I talked about how easy it is to think we are the only ones "struggling" in our practice. Especially for newer members who are just getting acclimated it can feel as though some members were removed from the womb doing full lotus.

I was wondering if some members were willing to share times there was doubt in their practice. What was It? What did you do? What did you come to realise? It would serve as a good reminder to everyone that you are not alone in thinking "how has it not been 20 minutes by now...is the timer broken?".

For a while now I have been interested in other spiritual practices. Reading about them, trying them out, and inevitably comparing them to Soto Zen. Through this I have found practices I like which are not core to Soto like mantra work, physical yoga, and to a point the "bliss" of devotional practice. All this led to questioning if TreeLeaf was right for me and quite honestly I am still not 100% sure.

What I have also learned though is how similar all of the spiritual practices around the world are. The forms, chants, and literature may be different but all are leading to the same place. All move to develop compassion in it followers and have a form of meditation even if it is not obvious.

But this is the great thing about this world. We don't have to 100% fit into that mental picture of a zen buddhist we have in our head. We can tweak our practice to meet the needs we have. Honestly I hope my practice never stops shifting and evolving. But I think TreeLeaf will have a centerpiece in it for a long time to come.

James F
Sat lah

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[Doshin]

Hi James,

My response will not shed a lot of light on your question but you asked about doubt and would some of us share. My journey is maybe different as are my goals But then maybe not.

I will try to put over 50 years into this paragraph. I was raised loosely in Christianity but in my early teens I drifted away from it. It was the mid 1960s and there was a cultural change sweeping across the US where I live. I became aware of and practiced Trancedental Meditation (where you repeat a mantra in silence).: I was under the impression that enlightenment would grace me. In restropect I believe the instructors suggested as much. I did not know what that meant but assumed some type of glow...a feeling of bliss. Well that did not happen. After a few years of sporadic practice I had great doubt and kept drifting further away. School, career and family became greater priorities but once in awhile I would return to meditation and sometims seek out a TM teacher to check me. I just had a sense that meditation was good and it kept me coming back. I also looked into other Buddhist spiritual paths but there was too much “mysticism” associated with them so I could not connect. To be honest I was not really sure what I was looking for. I did not have a need to know what came following death because I felt I knew (even if I don’t) nor did the genesis of the universe demand a belief from me. I was ok with not knowing because I felt no one knew, nor probably would for a long time to come. It just was, though I am fascinated by the evolution of life on earth. About 20 years ago I started following Zen. It felt right to me. I started once again seeking that elusive concept of enlightnment which I still had no idea what it was other than some form of acceptance. As my journey continued I started expecting less from it. I do not mean it would not have value for me, I just no longer worried about enlightenment. So maybe that can be interpreted as doubt. The one thing that has always remained constant these years is that meditating appeals to me and from it something comes.

As I have said, maybe my path is built on doubt but I no longer view it as such. I just move forward and use my practice to accept things (more than I use to). My meditation has provided me a skill I try to incorporate into my life off the cushion (or in my case I use a chair now).

Gassho
Doshin
Stlah

[Jundo]

Hi Anka,

This is the season of doubts. The Buddha is said to have faced doubts and challenges to his path, fears and temptations, on the night before Rohatsu, which we are celebrating this week. It is probably the season changing, the year ending, the close of Ango and such.

I have felt doubts and temptations leading away from this path many many many times over the years.

There is nothing wrong with adding other paths and practices to Shikantaza, so long as one recalls the central lesson of Shikantaza and can practice it a little each day: The sea is always this, no matter which direction one sails one's boat. In fact, the sea is boat and sailor too, and has been all along. Do not miss the truth and wonder of the waters right here while searching for something distant.

I have told folks who are Christian that they can sit Shikantaza, then pray to Jesus or head to church. Yoga folks can sit then go to the yoga lesson and bend. I lift weights in a gym three times a week, and three nights on the exercise bike, because Zazen does not burn many calories. I sit, then get up and work in the garden a bit. If a Mantra trips your trigger, then chant it. If you like to take cooking classes, then cook. If twirling like a Sufi is your thing, then twirl.

But always recall that no matter how much you pray or bend that body, no matter what you chant, what you cook or how long you dance ... there is a miracle and wholeness that is just this, right here, always. That is the message of Shikantaza which we human beings have such difficulty to learn, as we run and seek for more and more, or to escape or seek some distant treasure. It is fine to get up from the cushion and plan, build, seek, run and climb ... but also know the power and beauty of Just Sitting, in Completeness, no other place to go and not one drop more to attain.

Perhaps it is not an either/or choice between Shikantanza and some other practices and activities that trip your trigger.

This is the second time today that I posted this old talk ...

WHAT's NEXT!?!
https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/show...-s-NEXT%21-%21

Almost each week someone asks me, "What comes next in my practice? How do I deepen it? What should I do now? What book should I read with all the secrets? I feel like something is still missing and that I must do more."

But how can I respond to such a question when the very heart of this Path is learning to live and be this life radically FREE OF THE NEED FOR 'WHAT'S NEXT', LIBERATED OF 'SOMETHING MORE THAT NEED BE DONE', FULFILLED OF 'ANYTHING MISSING'!

Wherever we go, whatever we look for, we can all learn the power of putting down the search and savoring the treasure always in hand. That is the lesson I learned when I was tempted with doubts and challenges.

Gassho, J

STLah

[Junkyo]

Hi Anka!

I have had my share of "doubt" over the years since I began to practice Buddhism (Almost 9 years now!). I originally came to Buddhism through the Jodo Shinshu Pureland tradition and my practice has gradually migrated toward Zen. Most of my doubts have been overcome through pure persistence in my practice, however some of them only fell away after my understanding of the Buddha's teachings began to mature.

One thing that really helped me was to deepen my understanding of Buddha nature. In the Jodo Shinshu tradition the focus is total reliance on Amida Buddha and his vows as a path to awakening through rebirth in the Pureland of Sukhavati. At first glance I thought that I had to believe in a literal "Pure land" as a place to "Go", it was only after deeper study and lots and lots of Zazen that I came to understand that the Pureland was right here, right now; that we only needed to open our "eyes" to it. Also that Amida was not just a Buddha in some far away land, but also a reflection of our own Buddha Nature. This understanding was solidified by my Zen practice. When we sit, the Buddha sits; When we bow, the Buddha bows etc. Our own Buddha nature and that of the Tathagatas are not different, they are the same nature!

Perhaps now I can not say I am "Shin" or "Zen" buddhist, but rather somewhere in the middle. I chant from both traditions, my practice has aspects of both traditions, and that is perfectly ok! I just do my best to "do". When I sit, I sit; when I chant, I chant; When I work, I work.

Just "Doing", with no expectations, no where to go, nobody to be, helps the doubts drop away. I have found my doubts stem from expectations, or ideas of how things should be, or could be. When we drop the expectations we also drop the doubt.

I am not sure if my sharing was of any benefit to you or your question. I am excited to see the other replies and continue to learn with you!

Gassho,

Robert B

SAT

[Anka]

Gassho Doshin / Jundo / Robert,

Thank you for the responses. Doshin I hope one day I can say my practice has lasted as long as yours. I don't know much about TM but it is mantra driven mediation correct? Personally I have found mantras useful at work, while doing chores, or when nerves have kicked up. Just something to occupy the mind. Shikantaza is my preferred meditation and I believe is the nature progression for meditation practice. Breath and mantra and counting when gett a feel for it which gives way to open awareness.

Jundo,
I will look for the What's Next talk on the podcast for tomorrow. That certainly feels like where I am at the moment. Searching for something new and exciting only for it to lose the edge over time...then looking for the next. The thing is I understand that this searching can only lead to suffering. Suffering when the new thing does not turn out to be as anticipated. I also find myself less present in the moment when researching the new thing. But alas I still get distracted by the shiny new thing every once and a while.
Thanks for the response it was helpful.

Robert,
" I have found my doubts stem from expectations, or ideas of how things should be, or could be."
This a thousand times over. Thank you.


James F
Sat lah

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[Jishin]

Hi,

Decouple your thinking from your emotions to make better decisions.

My 2 cents.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Jundo]

One thing that really helped me was to deepen my understanding of Buddha nature. In the Jodo Shinshu tradition the focus is total reliance on Amida Buddha and his vows as a path to awakening through rebirth in the Pureland of Sukhavati. At first glance I thought that I had to believe in a literal "Pure land" as a place to "Go", it was only after deeper study and lots and lots of Zazen that I came to understand that the Pureland was right here, right now; that we only needed to open our "eyes" to it. Also that Amida was not just a Buddha in some far away land, but also a reflection of our own Buddha Nature. This understanding was solidified by my Zen practice. When we sit, the Buddha sits; When we bow, the Buddha bows etc. Our own Buddha nature and that of the Tathagatas are not different, they are the same nature!

Perhaps now I can not say I am "Shin" or "Zen" buddhist, but rather somewhere in the middle.

Robert, if that is how you hold the Pureland in heart, then count me in too. I might say that I also am not just "Shin" or "Zen," but beyond and right through all names and divisions. My "middle" is boundless and holds the whole universe.

Let me mention that, while I do not chant to Amida each day, I recite the Heart Sutra in Japanese each day. Just something I do for no reason, but I toss myself into that and it is "Zen" and the "Pure Land" and "Jesus" and "Twirling Sufi Dancers" and cooking and gardening too.

Jundo,
I will look for the What's Next talk on the podcast for tomorrow. That certainly feels like where I am at the moment. Searching for something new and exciting only for it to lose the edge over time...then looking for the next. The thing is I understand that this searching can only lead to suffering. Suffering when the new thing does not turn out to be as anticipated. I also find myself less present in the moment when researching the new thing. But alas I still get distracted by the shiny new thing every once and a while.

I am a Zen practitioner and a person. So, I spend some time each day sitting, staring at a wall, realizing that there is nothing lacking, nothing outside this, no other place in the whole universe in need of being for that time.

Then, I get up and get on with it, get in the car to get to the doctor, channel surf Netflix (watching Season 3 of Fargo right now, pretty good), write my book (to be published next year ), vacuum to keep my wife happy, try to (slowly at my age) increase the number of bench presses at the gym, pick up my daughter from school on time, get my translation work to my client on time, combat the weeds in the garden, take my daughter to the park etc. etc.

And you know what? Both sides of myself are fine and go hand in hand. I am basically a "Type-A" personality who was rescued from himself by Zen nearly 40 years ago. I am a human being who needs and wants to get things done, but Zazen has helped me not be trapped by myself.

So, I sit each day ... then I bike and channel surf and take my medicine and write and vacuum with, simultaneously, a place in my heart with no place in need of going or attaining, no sickness in need of healing, nothing more in need of saying, no dirt to clean. I work to achieve plans, get things done, but ... if they don't work out ... that is okay too. I spend time with my daughter in the park knowing that, in that moment, there is not one other place to be too. "Type-A" is also "Type-Z" (for Zen). Buddha, Dogen, all the great Ancestors where active folks too, building and managing their Sangha and temples, advising kings and commoners ... they did not just sit around on their butts.

Anyway, if there is some other practice or activity that trips your trigger, then pull it ... but know too that one's True Home is always this.

Gassho, J

STLah

[Jundo]

PS - Sorry, one more thing. When Norman Fischer Roshi comes to lead Zazenkai next month, you might want to ask him about this. His personal path is to combine Zen and Judaism for many years, so I am sure that he has great insights ...


"What Is Zen?" Author & Zen Teacher Norman Fischer Coming to Treeleaf in January
https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/show...eaf-in-January

The Roshi and the Rabbi
Norman Fischer, a leading Zen teacher, explains to Vishvapani his initiatives to revive Jewish spirituality through meditation

"DL: ... What about issues such as believing in God?

NF: It depends what you mean by God. Rabbi Lew tells a story: someone comes to him, very angry, and says, 'I'm mad because I don't believe in God!' So the Rabbi says, 'Describe for me the God you don't believe in'. So the person does that, and Rabbi Lew says, 'Well, I don't believe in that God either.'

God to me is the word to describe the sense of presence that is larger than any individual or individual entity. So if God is a Supreme Being then, no, I don't think there is a Supreme Being. But there have been many volumes of theology written on God and very few of them depict God as a Supreme Being. You have to pick carefully through them philosophically to see where they differ from Buddhist thought."

...

"We all have identity. There is no being a person without an identity. If you are trapped in your identity, whether that is 'being a Jewish person' or 'not being a Jewish person' then either way you are suffering. But it is possible to embrace being Jewish as the identity to which you are karmically wedded, without being myopic and limited. For it's not the alpha and omega of what you are - ultimately you are Buddha Nature."

http://www.dharmalife.com/issue18/roshiandrabbi.html

[Anka]

Hello all,

It's funny as I made this post because I thought it would bring interesting discussion. We have seen many people questioning things this Ango and I knew I had been a little also. I did not expect your responses to hit like a keisaku. Thank you all for that. Jundo I will be keeping the What's Next podcast on my phone for a while. Perhaps listen to it once a week until it finally settles in deep.

James F
Sat

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[Kokuu]

Hi Anka

When I moved from Tibetan Buddhism to Zen, I found that there were practices I missed in terms of mantra, tantra and devotion.

However, like you say, there is space to tweak your practice to fit your needs. In Soto Zen there are more devotional and mantra-based practices such as the ancestor lineage chant and several dharanis but they are not emphasised a great deal. As long as shikantaza is front and centre, I see no problem with also doing the others.

Whenever I feel dissatisfied I often find that a little shift in emphasis can make all the difference and adding something in for a time, while keep everything else pretty much the same.

I am not sure there is ever a path which will feel 100% like home and it is likely that elements of other paths will also have appeal. However, if shikantaza is your main focus, I think that other elements of Soto can be made to give you what you need in practice and things like physical yoga/tai chi/qi gong can be done alongside without any issue.

One of the great things about Ango is that we come face-to-face with ourself so it is natural that issues around practice may be more likely to come up at this time. Having a practice partner to discuss this with is also extremely valuable.

On a personal note, I would say that I have noticed your contributions to the forum to be very balanced and considered and those are great qualities to bring to the sangha.

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday-

[Koki]

Another interesting discussion!

My thoughts, if I may?

I was raised Catholic. When I was 12 years old, I was introduced to meditation by my martial arts instructor. When I was 16, I remember my first glimpse of "enlightenment".

When I was married at 19, a Catholic priest threatened to excommunicate me, for not remembering when was the last time I went to reconciliation (confession). Time came for me to return to my roots, joining the Cleveland Buddhist Temple at 16.. I went to services "religiously", and sat zazen with Sensei Ogui.

I joined the military, and travelled extensively, always having my butsudan in my home. At one point, joining the Tri-State Buddhist Temple in Denver, and becoming a Sangha leader.

After leaving the military, my wife attended a retreat at a local Catholic Church, and we began to attend services, team reaching the parish school of religion to 8th graders for 10 years. Someone suggested I become a Catholic Deacon, so after attending 4 years of seminary, I was ordained a Catholic Deacon, where I counseled, taught, married, baptized, buried, conducted services, etc for over 5 years. But again, the inner politics of the organized church was disenheartening. I requested laicization, which was granted by the Holy See in Rome....and again my search continued.

Sitting in Tibetan Temples, Shambhalla, Jodo Shinshu, Korean lineages, Zen and even studying and testing Wicca, Asatru, Native American, Knights Templar, Masonic Lodge, etc....

Yet, I've ALWAYS been consistent in Zen, and sitting with my butsudan.

I have many tattoos that map my journey, one being a double spiral on the web of my left hand. To me, it symbolizes that what we seek, lies inside of us, and then we take it out to the world to help others.

Recently in a discussion with a hospice nurse, the topic of death and dying came up, and I was asked about my personal thoughts on the subject.

Firstly, I wish to die sitting up, and fully cognizant, smiling.
My thoughts on afterlife? Korean Zen is "I don't know".
But, I hope, and feel that my journey will continue...now, "I don't know", if I'll meet God, Buddha, or Odin. I'm not sure if the Valkyeries will whisk me off to Valhalla, or St Peter will meet me at the pearly gates, perhaps Lucifer will turn up the heat, or I'll return as a majestic soaring Hawk.

But this I DO KNOW..... It's going to be a hell of a journey!

I wish you peace, and whether we travel the same path, parallel paths, or just briefly cross paths...I'll be sure to give you a smile

Gassho
Frank (Kunzang)
Satoday

[Doshin]

Jundo,

I just watched your video “What’s Next?” I do not remember seeing it before but it made me realiize where I have obviously been influenced by your teachings the past 4 years. For whatever reason the talk put it together in a summary of what I have learned from you and the pieces that have been loosely coming together for so long. So, I guess I just had a fleeting moment of enlightenment...Drop Mic! Thank you.

Gassho
Doshin
Stlah

[Anka]

Hi Kokuu,

"I am not sure there is ever a path which will feel 100% like home and it is likely that elements of other paths will also have appeal."

So true, it's amazing how something catches your eye and looks perfect. That will be It! It will fill the need I have (or think I have). Only to find out after hours and hours of research and practice that it isn't perfect...nothing is. Like many others have pointed out although my interests wander meditation seems to be the common theme. The rock behind it all. Thanks for the words.

Kunzang,
Wow what a life! What you said hit home over and over again. The range of experiences you must have had throughout all the spiritual and religious traditions is staggering. The fact that this is where you seem to have settled is a tremendous endorsement of the practice.
Hopefully I can hear more stories of your travels in the future. Gassho.

James F
Sat



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[Koki]

Gassho James F

Frank (Kunzang)


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[Shokai]

If we wait for perfection we will probably not be breathing well enough to appreciate it.
Personally, I've studied Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Bahai, hung out with a Sikh a few Buddhists even tried Voodoo and Shamanism; and guess where I ended up. I've been referred to as Sarnia's only Buddhist Priest. When they built it (the Zen Garden) I appeared, to act as a greeter; just like in Walmart.

May you Journey include peace
gassho, Shokai

[Geika]

Every time I have had doubt, it was because I was seeking something more interesting. I always come back to this because it stresses that wanting things to get interesting is just part of regular human grasping. It will always be true. So every time I have strayed, I always come back because after getting to the core of things, it seems that there is no where else to go.

Sat today, lah

[Jishin]

The other side of the fence is always greener. I think it has something to do with that insatiable thirst that humans have. I think it’s okay to look for a better situation as long as you know a perfect situation is not to be found. The looking itself then becomes fun.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Anka]

Shokai, Geika, Jishin,

To me you have all said the same thing in slightly different ways. Like hitting the nail with a different type of hammer. Each hit home albeit in a slightly different manner. That drive for the new and interesting. The stories we tell ourselves of how this new thing will be somehow better.

I feel like this has to be a common issue especially for us western practitioners. We found Zen because we were searching for something more. Or it caught our interest because it was different. This grass is greener drive helped us find Zen.

James F
Sat

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[Mp]

The other side of the fence is always greener. I think it has something to do with that insatiable thirst that humans have. I think it’s okay to look for a better situation as long as you know a perfect situation is not to be found. The looking itself then becomes fun.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

The grass is no greener on the side, as it is the same grass. The fence is the obstacle within our own minds. =)

Gassho
Shingen

Sat/LAH

[Jishin]

The grass is no greener on the side, as it is the same grass. The fence is the obstacle within our own minds. =)

Gassho
Shingen

Sat/LAH

Sounds like a paraphrase of that book “the Gateless Gate”.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Mp]

Sounds like a paraphrase of that book “the Gateless Gate”.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

I think you are right. =)

Gassho
Shingen

Sat/LAH