Karma, Kindness and Neo-Nazis

[Jundo]

The Buddhist teachings in this story may not be obvious at first. It is an interview with a former white-supremacist who reaches out to those who are still so. He discusses how young people become involved in these movements, which I can only described as their own being filled with anger, doubt, fear and divided thinking. It is the product of their own suffering in the past.

The story also touches upon how our actions, large and small, for good or bad, can have effects on ourselves and those around us ... even strangers ... for good and bad.

You have to wait for the end of the story when he discusses how small acts of kindness, something like our small "LAH" actions, can sometimes have amazing powers to change minds and hearts more than we might expect.

It is not a pretty story, but please have a listen if you can (there is a button to click to download or listen online).

Every single person in that movement, whether they are part of a group, or a lone wolf, or just indoctrinated online, has gotten to that point because they have felt marginalized or broken. We cannot continue to marginalize them further because that just pushes them further away. Now, I'm not suggesting everybody hug a Nazi like I did with Richard Spencer, but we need to bring them in closer.

https://www.ttbook.org/interview/can...e-supremacist#

Gassho, J

SatTodayLAH

[Horin]

Thats the problem with all this extremist groups, it doesnt matter if its IS, taliban, left extremists, right wingers et cetera..its their lack of participation in society, their desperation that makes them vunerable to that ideologies. They become indoctrinated in some black-white image of world, we (good) against others (bad),
especially at the right wingers there is hope, "we change the society into our image of utopia and become fame and the possibility to compensate the lack of our ability to participate" or at least become some kind of hero/legend in their own rows.. but indeed they are also victims of their socialization. people must participate in society and become the feeling to be worth and important.. thats imo the best way to prevent from terror and hate in this context.. well thats what i have learned in my studies as social worker

Gassho, ben

Stlah

[Jundo]

Ex-Nazis (or current Nazis wishing sincerely to become ex-Nazis) would be welcome in our Sangha, I feel.

Current Nazis are probably still too filled with hate and division to benefit much.

Gassho, J

SatTodayLAH

[Eva]

I'm so glad you found his work worthy to mention here
His story is extraordinary (imho) and I do hope he gets all support possible to continue .

Thank you, Jundo,
thank you everyone who takes time to read this .

Gassho, eva
sattoday and also LAH

[Kokuu]

There is an interesting article in The Guardian today which correlates the desire for authoritarianism (and similarly, the kind of far-right thinking that pushes someone into Nazism) with the fear of external threats, whether those fears are real or perceived. This goes for environmental threats as well as human ones.

Feeling threatened, people seek to reduce the threat, often by blaming one group, or any group which is not one's own. Leaders (e.g. Donald Trump) and solutions (such as Brexit) which seem to offer defence or measure against the perceived threat. Those who seek solutions by suggesting that working with perceived human threats, such as different cultures and religions, rather than ostracising them, will also be seen as a threat themselves.

It is in the interests of those groups and leaders to make the threats seem as big and scary as possible, by running media stories about how dangerous they are to you, your family, and your country.

At his war crimes tribunal, Joseph Goebbels pointed out that it was easy to manipulate people into war. All you have to do is tell them that their country is under threat and anyone not helping to fight that threat is a traitor to the fatherland. Modern Nazism works in exactly the same way.

It is great if ex-members of that community such as Christian Picciolini can talk to current Nazis and explain to them how the propaganda works and that there is a way out. Although I have little sympathy with their point of view, I can totally empathise with being caught up in those notions of fear. You only have to listen to the Charlottesville white supremacist marchers with their chant "Jews will not replace us" to hear that fear writ large, even if the vast majority of people can see that it is totally misplaced. As Christian himself says, he was not a monster but someone from a broken background looking for a way out of his own pain and isolation. This is exactly the same mindset that can lead some young western Muslims into Islamic extremism.

Some extremists are ready to hear a different version of events. Some aren't. All we can do is let the authorities take care of the latter but we can reach out a hand to the former. Part of taking away the fear that drives them is letting them see that others are not the enemy.

Gassho
Kokuu
-sdattoday/lah-

[Mp]

Thank you Jundo,

I really liked what he had to say about we are not born this way; as human beings we are driven by this need of belonging, a need to have purpose, and identity. I feel this is so true. The words, thoughts, and acts we have today are taught to us from a young age or from causality (cause and effect).

I feel Sangha (and our precepts) plays a vital role in this, as it provides a place of common values of love, respect, acceptance, and openness for folks to come together and feel and know they matter.

Gassho
Shingen

Sat/LAH

[Hoseki]

There is an interesting article in The Guardian today which correlates the desire for authoritarianism (and similarly, the kind of far-right thinking that pushes someone into Nazism) with the fear of external threats, whether those fears are real or perceived. This goes for environmental threats as well as human ones.

Feeling threatened, people seek to reduce the threat, often by blaming one group, or any group which is not one's own. Leaders (e.g. Donald Trump) and solutions (such as Brexit) which seem to offer defence or measure against the perceived threat. Those who seek solutions by suggesting that working with perceived human threats, such as different cultures and religions, rather than ostracising them, will also be seen as a threat themselves.

It is in the interests of those groups and leaders to make the threats seem as big and scary as possible, by running media stories about how dangerous they are to you, your family, and your country.

At his war crimes tribunal, Joseph Goebbels pointed out that it was easy to manipulate people into war. All you have to do is tell them that their country is under threat and anyone not helping to fight that threat is a traitor to the fatherland. Modern Nazism works in exactly the same way.

It is great if ex-members of that community such as Christian Picciolini can talk to current Nazis and explain to them how the propaganda works and that there is a way out. Although I have little sympathy with their point of view, I can totally empathise with being caught up in those notions of fear. You only have to listen to the Charlottesville white supremacist marchers with their chant "Jews will not replace us" to hear that fear writ large, even if the vast majority of people can see that it is totally misplaced. As Christian himself says, he was not a monster but someone from a broken background looking for a way out of his own pain and isolation. This is exactly the same mindset that can lead some young western Muslims into Islamic extremism.

Some extremists are ready to hear a different version of events. Some aren't. All we can do is let the authorities take care of the latter but we can reach out a hand to the former. Part of taking away the fear that drives them is letting them see that others are not the enemy.

Gassho
Kokuu
-sdattoday/lah-

I think its also worth noting that many of these people misdirect their anger. But their anger maybe just. For some the hardship which they blame on immigrants may be the result of structural issues like reducing government programs that provide supports for the population to pay for tax cuts for large corporations. Or the widening income inequality and consolidation of wealth in the hands of a few.

Where I live there was a moratorium on the cod fishery which caused a lot of hardship here. People here fished for generations and then all of a sudden they simply weren't allowed anymore or it was very limited. I remember people talking about foreign over fishing that are taking "our" fish as well as blaming the seal population. As I understand it the collapse of the fishery was the result of a number of factors including new technologies. But looking at the structural problems isn't intuitive and they get missed.

Sad stuff really.

Gassho
Hoseki
Sattoday

[Enjaku]

No one selects the kind of person they wish to be from a list of options. In my view, our thoughts, feelings and behaviours (including our most deeply held values and core beliefs) are the culmination of endless interlinking factors, many of which are beyond our awareness or control.

Therefore, while someone else's views and beliefs will naturally provoke our disapproval, or even our disgust, I feel that we must not be deluded about the complex source of views and beliefs.

I worry that wider society's response to racism and sexism is often naive and dualistic (the good people must shame and punish the bad people). I applaud those who are willing to explore complex issues such as racism without sacrificing their fundamental respect for all beings.

When providing therapy, I have encountered young people who hold dangerous views, including those that justify violence and sexual abuse. Many have experienced significant neglect and trauma. The main emotion I feel is sadness. I hope somehow that they can find a safe, loving environment in which to learn, grow and develop healthier attitudes and take responsibility for their impact on others. As Buddhists, I feel we are responsible for modelling compassion for all beings, including those we find challenging. May we all feel safe and loved.

Gassho,
Enjaku
Sat LAH

[Mitka]

I'm an ex-fundamentalist Christian (The Left Behind series type), so I understand intimately how this process works. I was also brought out of that line of thinking by the kind and compassionate examples of many individuals who didn't fit the "fundamentaist" world-view and led me to question by beliefs. So, you never know what impact you can have, just be real with people and show them love.

[Kyoshin]

An old African proverb: "The child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel its warmth"
Gassho
Nick
Satlah

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

[Jishin]

An old African proverb: "The child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel its warmth"
Gassho
Nick
Satlah

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

Wow. Thank you for sharing this.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[aprapti]

An old African proverb: "The child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel its warmth"
Gassho
Nick
Satlah

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

Thanks, Nick.


aprapti

satlah

[Kyonin]

Thank you Jundo.

It's a powerful teaching and I concur. The more desperate a culture is, the most it leans towards hate and fear. But it takes only a little compassion to start changing things around.

I see both things everyday here in the Spanish speaking world. In some countries of South America racism is big towards native people, despite the fact that native Peruvians (for instance) are the ones that work the fields and generate most of the national income. However, it's not uncommon to see constantly stories of compassion and care surfacing more and more often.

This gives me hope. And makes me happy to know that we are open to welcome people with violent pasts.

Gassho,

Kyonin
Sat/LAH

[Hoseki]

Hi folks,

I think this is one of those cases where pull with one hand and push with the other. When it comes to individuals I think (assuming its safe) to try and see them as vulnerable contingent creatures just like our selves. Offering help if they need it and modelling decent human behavior.

But in the public sphere we can't let this stuff stand. Nazism, nationalism, etho-nationalism etc... can't be legitimized in the public sphere. Sometimes that means we might not be nice or necessarily civil (So were clear, I'm not advocating violence.) I'm not sure how to deal with it but these ideologies are born out anger and fear and that's what they will reproduce.

At least that's my thoughts on the matter.

Gassho
Hoseki
Sattoday/LAH

[Shoki]

I have no experience with Nazis but in the city where I grew up in the 1960s and 1970s there was much racial turmoil. We had race riots, looting, hate and violence. Every aspect of life was based on race and race relations. My high school years were abnormal marked with tension, violence and fear. As you may expect it was rooted in ignorance and fear. Also the other side had to me de-humanized. They were different than us. Less human. Monkeys. Animals. This goes both ways. Nothing good is going to happen when you see a neo-nazi and do the same to him. From watching the video, Christian Picciolini is so patient and kind with Spencer. If he got 100 Neo-nazis to quit as he says, it was not done by yelling in their face, punching them and calling them names.

Gassho LAH
Sat Today
James

[Jundo]

The famous quote attributed to Buddha in the Dhammapada ...

"He insulted me, hit me, beat me, robbed me" — for those who brood on this, hostility isn't stilled. "He insulted me, hit me, beat me, robbed me" — for those who don't brood on this, hostility is stilled. Hostilities aren't stilled through hostility, regardless. Hostilities are stilled through non-hostility: this, an unending truth. (Verses 3-5, Translator: Thanissaro Bhikkhu)

Gassho, J

STLah

[Hoseki]

Hi guys,

I think its our role in the greater scheme of things is to try to deescalate conflict. But what do we do when we feel anger at an injustice? Fascism certainly leads to injustice. For example, we are experiencing an ecological crisis with climate change and yet we have politicians who deny it currently but in the past have said its an issue. How do we handle that? What do you do with people who argue in bad faith? Or who want to create policies that will lead to the suffering of others?

At the end of the day I don't want anyone to suffer. I just don't know what to do with people who do?

Thoughts?

Gassho
Sattoday/lah

[Mp]

At the end of the day I don't want anyone to suffer. I just don't know what to do with people who do?

How quickly do you remove a bandaid? Whether fast or slow, you are still going to create suffering and/or pain. But this is not your intention. Intention I feel is this most important. Right intention comes from a heart that is compassionate, empathetic, open, accepting, kind, patient, etc ... when we come from that place of equanimity we are looking at the end "goalless goal" if you will and not the current outcome(s).

Sometimes we have to be stern in that moment (parenting is a great example for that) ... in doing so not all folks will like it, but if are intention is for the benefit of ALL, then that sternness is what is needed at that time.

Gassho
Shingen

Sat/LAH

[Hoseki]

How quickly do you remove a bandaid? Whether fast or slow, you are still going to create suffering and/or pain. But this is not your intention. Intention I feel is this most important. Right intention comes from a heart that is compassionate, empathetic, open, accepting, kind, patient, etc ... when we come from that place of equanimity we are looking at the end "goalless goal" if you will and not the current outcome(s).

Sometimes we have to be stern in that moment (parenting is a great example for that) ... in doing so not all folks will like it, but if are intention is for the benefit of ALL, then that sternness is what is needed at that time.

Gassho
Shingen

Sat/LAH

Thank you Shingen,

Gassho
Hoseki
Sattoday/lah

[Daiyo]

Sorry for bumping this, but there is something really important about to happen in South America these days.

Brazil, one of the most important countries in the region, and the biggest economy, is electing its president next Sunday.

The candidate who has more chances to win is well known (and voted) for his hatred speech; he has said that he would prefer a dead son than a gay son, has spoken ill about the LGBT community and threatened to jail, or kick all opposition out of the country.
He has told a former minister that he would not rape her because she didn't deserve it, has spoken against women's equality of rights and many awful things more, even speaking in favour of torture and saying that Brazilian military dictatorship fell short of killings, that they tortured too much and didn't kill enough. All of this is documented and got viral in the social networks. His campaign gesture is to put his hands as two guns pointing and of course he is in favour of death penalty and the use of weapons among the citizens. He has many supporters in Argentina too. Europe is also seeing a rise of right wing movements.

How can one cope with this kind of situations when the majority of people around are so influenced by the mass media that they would happily choose murder to fight alleged theft?
Should one just ignore everything for the sake of acceptance? How to avoid feeling despair?

I'm finding really hard to focus on practice with all of this happening around me and that is one of the reasons I gave up for some months. The world was always a violent place, but now I'm hearing the gunshots in my neighbour's backyard.
On the other hand, I know that practice helps me to cultivate equanimity, which is much needed, so I need to figure out what to do.


Gassho.


ST

[Kyoshin]

Sorry for bumping this, but there is something really important about to happen in South America these days.

Brazil, one of the most important countries in the region, and the biggest economy, is electing its president next Sunday.

The candidate who has more chances to win is well known (and voted) for his hatred speech; he has said that he would prefer a dead son than a gay son, has spoken ill about the LGBT community and threatened to jail, or kick all opposition out of the country.
He has told a former minister that he would not rape her because she didn't deserve it, has spoken against women's equality of rights and many awful things more, even speaking in favour of torture and saying that Brazilian military dictatorship fell short of killings, that they tortured too much and didn't kill enough. All of this is documented and got viral in the social networks. His campaign gesture is to put his hands as two guns pointing and of course he is in favour of death penalty and the use of weapons among the citizens. He has many supporters in Argentina too. Europe is also seeing a rise of right wing movements.

How can one cope with this kind of situations when the majority of people around are so influenced by the mass media that they would happily choose murder to fight alleged theft?
Should one just ignore everything for the sake of acceptance? How to avoid feeling despair?

I'm finding really hard to focus on practice with all of this happening around me and that is one of the reasons I gave up for some months. The world was always a violent place, but now I'm hearing the gunshots in my neighbour's backyard.
On the other hand, I know that practice helps me to cultivate equanimity, which is much needed, so I need to figure out what to do.


Gassho.


ST

Hi Daiyo,
I'm sorry to hear about the difficulties you're having. I don't really have much to offer in terms of nice comforting things to say that make you feel better. Though if anyone else does, I wouldn't mind hearing it myself. But in terms of practice during these hard times, I can offer this talk from angel Kyodo Williams where she lays out an interesting perspective on practice in the face of oppression and hard times. The talk is ostensibly about Zen in the USA, but she talks for a bit about how the practice helped her. She describes how learning equanimity and accepting the reality of injustice allowed her to find the courage and motivation to work for change. I think it's a good perspective and pertinent to the challenges you're talking about. Hope you find it valuable. The link is here:
Gassho
Nick
Satlah

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

[Mp]

Sorry for bumping this, but there is something really important about to happen in South America these days.

Brazil, one of the most important countries in the region, and the biggest economy, is electing its president next Sunday.

The candidate who has more chances to win is well known (and voted) for his hatred speech; he has said that he would prefer a dead son than a gay son, has spoken ill about the LGBT community and threatened to jail, or kick all opposition out of the country.
He has told a former minister that he would not rape her because she didn't deserve it, has spoken against women's equality of rights and many awful things more, even speaking in favour of torture and saying that Brazilian military dictatorship fell short of killings, that they tortured too much and didn't kill enough. All of this is documented and got viral in the social networks. His campaign gesture is to put his hands as two guns pointing and of course he is in favour of death penalty and the use of weapons among the citizens. He has many supporters in Argentina too. Europe is also seeing a rise of right wing movements.

How can one cope with this kind of situations when the majority of people around are so influenced by the mass media that they would happily choose murder to fight alleged theft?
Should one just ignore everything for the sake of acceptance? How to avoid feeling despair?

I'm finding really hard to focus on practice with all of this happening around me and that is one of the reasons I gave up for some months. The world was always a violent place, but now I'm hearing the gunshots in my neighbour's backyard.
On the other hand, I know that practice helps me to cultivate equanimity, which is much needed, so I need to figure out what to do.


Gassho.


ST

Hello Daiyo,

First, these are the times when practice is most important!!! We cannot control the actions of others, we can only influence others through our own actions. Politics is a hard game to play and can such the energy out of us, can make our minds go in so many directions. So really, the best for you to do and for others is to sit with all this uncertainty - it doing this you are going to work on you and how you interact and are affect by all of this political unrest.

Then when you are done sitting, done with finding stillness in your own heart, clarity in your own heart, you go out into the world and help people see and understand that clarity. But as you already know, we can lead a horse to water, but we cannot make it drink. It is what we do that makes a difference, not always the outcome of that effort (as we don't have full and total control).

I hope this helps ... but please remember, it is times like this that we need to practice, not only for others, but ourselves.

Gassho
Shingen

Sat/LAH

[Kyonin]

Hi Daiyo,

Yes, what's happening in Brazil will make ripples in history and I know how hard it is to focus on practice… but you see, political problems and all those things we don't like about the world are also part of practice!

It's very natural to feel powerless and used when you see the news, but please keep in mind that the power of one and benevolence can change the future of humanity. If there's a lesson here is that we can't stop practice and our service. By helping others, donating time or money to organizations, by getting involved and teaching the young ones about kindness and compassion, you'll feel less helpless and more focused on our Bodhisattva vows.

So chin up, brother. We have a lot to do

Gassho,

Kyonin
Sat/LAH

[Jishin]

Hi Dayo,

Brazilians like Argentinians can be dramatic. The Romance languages are more expressive and passionate. His language is inflammatory but Brazilians settle their differences over soccer matches. It’s aggressive talk but that’s all it is. Just talk.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Daiyo]

Hi Dayo,

Brazilians like Argentinians can be dramatic. The Romance languages are more expressive and passionate. His language is inflammatory but Brazilians settle their differences over soccer matches. It’s aggressive talk but that’s all it is. Just talk.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

Hi Jishin, I wish I could be as optimistic as you are.
A woman was killed a few months ago in Rio de Janeiro because of her LGBT activism.
And there were many other violent incidents. The far-right candidate was stabbed himself during the campaign and spent a couple of weeks in the hospital.
I think that sort of things do not get solved over a soccer match, that sounds a bit underestimating. We can be dramatic but we do not have high school shootings.
However, violence in the region is escalating and it will be worse once they get the power.
Perhaps the candidate himself will not do such deeds, but his speech empowers a number of people to shift from words to action.

Gassho,

ST

[Shokai]

the candidate himself will not do such deeds, but his speech empowers a number of people to shift from words to action.

Sounds very familiar

gassho, Shokai
stlah

[Jishin]

Hi Jishin, I wish I could be as optimistic as you are.
A woman was killed a few months ago in Rio de Janeiro because of her LGBT activism.
And there were many other violent incidents. The far-right candidate was stabbed himself during the campaign and spent a couple of weeks in the hospital.
I think that sort of things do not get solved over a soccer match, that sounds a bit underestimating. We can be dramatic but we do not have high school shootings.
However, violence in the region is escalating and it will be worse once they get the power.
Perhaps the candidate himself will not do such deeds, but his speech empowers a number of people to shift from words to action.

Gassho,

ST

Hi Dayo,

In many parts of Brazil a man is not considered gay if he is not a “bottom”. This is specially true of transgenders. I am sure the same holds true for Argentina and other Latin countries.

Crime and violence has risen in general in Latin countries due to increased concentration of wealth. This is not a local but a global problem.

History predicts the future and Brazil is extremity pacific regarding wars with other countries or civil revolutions. I can’t think of any wars with other countries or civil revolutions where blood was spilled but it has been 37 years since I studied Brazilian history. Maybe several hundred years ago when it gained independence from Portugal. Coup d'etats have been peacefull. “Soccer” is the weapon of choice.

I think that energy is better spent locally where I can make a difference.

2 days ago I voted to make a national impact which will make a global impact. It works like this. I can’t make a global impact, that makes a national impact that then impacts me. It begins locally.

Don’t worry so much about over there and worry about over here although here and there are all one.

Cheers! \ (•◡•) /

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Kokuu]

Perhaps the candidate himself will not do such deeds, but his speech empowers a number of people to shift from words to action.

I think this is a worrying trend. Both the election of Donald Trump in the US and Brexit vote in the UK has caused a rise in race based violence. When you have a leader, or leaders spouting anti-immigrant rhetoric, it empowers people to think they can take action. At the top there is usually a disavowal of the violence in spite of the words they have used but violence begets violence and hatred begets hatred.

I am sorry for the path that Brazil appears to be taking. As citizens in any country we have to help and support each other as much as we can and stand up for targetted minority groups. This seems to be a difficult time in the history of our planet (although I am not sure there has ever been a truly easy one) and kindness is more needed than ever.

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday/lah-