Delusions

[Genjun]

They are inexhaustible, and we vow to put an end to them... but what exactly are they? What might be a definition of delusion? My guess is that they are ideas about things that we mistake for those things. What do you think?

Sat today.

[Rakurei]

I enjoy this vow.

However, I find as a Buddhist that nothing ever really ends. A translation I enjoy is, "Delusions are inexhaustible, I vow to transform them."

When we work with our delusions, we find that we transform them, or even find the wisdom and self-awareness that our delusions can contain (a hidden treasure!).

Delusions are the games we play in our minds, the games which are endless.

I've heard delusions described as the plaque on our teeth; they are always going to come back because we are eating the meal (of life) all the time. Brushing your teeth once or twice a year isn’t going to remove the plaque. We then find ourselves continually in the process of transforming delusions because they will always arise.

A single practice session or even a single deep practice period isn’t going to take care of our delusions. It’s a type of work left for the 'everyday mind.'


Gassho,

SatToday,

Rakurei

[Jundo]

They are inexhaustible, and we vow to put an end to them... but what exactly are they? What might be a definition of delusion? My guess is that they are ideas about things that we mistake for those things. What do you think?

Sat today.

Generally, in Zen and Mahayana Buddhism, we define delusions as divided thinking and judgments (me/not me, me/you, this/that, Canada/France, good/bad, friend/enemy, table/chair) and all the accompanying judgments (liked/disliked, beautiful/ugly, mine/yours) and desires that go with that, very easily leading to excess desires, anger and frustration, jealousy, regrets of the past and fear of the future as our little selfish self relates to all the "not self" stuff. It is the source of "Dukka" (Suffering in Buddhist sense) when the little "me" is frustrated in its relationships with all that "not me." We live in a world of apparent separate things, some of which we feel attracted to, neutral about or despise.

Dropping all that away is the Flowing Wholeness (sometimes called "Emptiness") without division and frictions.

All that is precisely what is dropped away in Zazen. One realizes that all the Flowing Wholeness and all the separate things of the relative world are not apart.

We say that "delusions are endless" because, so long as we are alive in this world, as separate selves, we cannot escape a world divided into "this and that." Our practice of realizing the "not apart" with Wholeness is a daily affair, so never ends in this life.

Very simple really.

Gassho, J

SatTodayLAH

[Kyonin]

We say that "delusions are endless" because, so long as we are alive in this world, as separate selves, we cannot escape a world divided into "this and that." Our practice of realizing the "not apart" with Wholeness is a daily affair, so never ends in this life.

Thank you for this, Jundo.

Yes, as long as we have a body that perecieres the world around us and a mind that interprets everything based on our culture, preferences and languages; we will be deluded.

By no means I am an expert, but then only way we have to escape this Matrix is by sitting zazen and let life be life without us affecting it.

Gassho,

Kyonin
Sat/LAH

[Mp]

Hello Genjun,

Simple put for me, delusions is judgements. But wait a minute, do we not live in a world of judgements? A world of relativity? Why yes we do! But I feel if our judgements create separation, you vs me; them vs us; this vs that, then we create suffering. Because we are all interconnected what we say and do has an impact both positively and negatively.

Even though we may not agree with something that is happening in this world, accepting those conditions as they are helps in reducing delusion. When we just sit we are given the opportunity to see and accept this world just as it is. That being said, accepting of something as it is doesn't mean you agree or condone such. Again if we push away the things we do not like in this world and say they/it is over there and I am here, this is separation, this is delusion.

We say that "delusions are endless" because, so long as we are alive in this world, as separate selves, we cannot escape a world divided into "this and that." Our practice of realizing the "not apart" with Wholeness is a daily affair, so never ends in this life.

It is a crazy concept to see that even suffering in this world is part of the "Wholeness". But I do feel that when we get up off the cushion and go out into this world to do our best to make change, to try and end that suffering, we do it from a place of equanimity and non-separation. =)

Gassho
Shingen

Sat/LAH

[Rich]

Identifying or attaching to your thinking and dreaming obscures the reality of here now. So we vow to let them go and return to our practice

SAT today
LAH

They are inexhaustible, and we vow to put an end to them... but what exactly are they? What might be a definition of delusion? My guess is that they are ideas about things that we mistake for those things. What do you think?

Sat today.

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[Genjun]

I see! So the basis of delusion is a separation that enables judgment, giving us "something" to push away or pull towards or turn away from. And meanwhile, we discriminate to get through the day and help others, ideally after/while we let go of all discrimination.

Sat today.

[Jundo]

I see! So the basis of delusion is a separation that enables judgment, giving us "something" to push away or pull towards or turn away from. And meanwhile, we discriminate to get through the day and help others, ideally after/while we let go of all discrimination.

Sat today.

Ideally after a while one learns to let go of all discrimination & judgments, and still live in this world of discrimination & judgments which we need to live in the world, as if seeing the world one way out of one eye, the other way out of the other eye, with both eyes open together the Clarity of a Buddha's Eye.

This is our Practice, were I to stick it in a nutshell.

Gassho, J

SatTodayLah

[Mp]

Ideally after a while one learns to let go of all discrimination & judgments, and still live in this world of discrimination & judgments which we need to live in the world, as if seeing the world one way out of one eye, the other way out of the other eye, with both eyes open together the Clarity of a Buddha's Eye.

This is our Practice, were I to stick it in a nutshell.

Gassho, J

SatTodayLah

Gassho
Shingen

Sat/LAH

[sjlabat]

Good discussion, delusion - in greek 'plani,' in Russian, I believe it's 'prelest' (not sure what it is in Ukrainian!) often I've heared it attached with big 'spiritual' experiences (perhaps this in itself is a hint, separating "spirituality" from "life"?) My ordinary, boring, tedious life isn't good enough. But, if I have some big experience...that would be really cool! Sometimes, in Zen, I'm trying to learn how to 'speak Buddhist,' I've heard that with making too much of 'kensho' experiences and with thoughts, experiences, perceptions may perceive during zazen that are sort of out of the ordinary. Most of us likely do have experiences that are 'out of the ordinary' for lack of a better term off the top of my head - but my understanding, would not Dogen agree? is try not to make too much of them and get back to just sitting.
gassho,
sean
sat, lah

[Shugen]

Hi Sean,

Would you create an avatar for the forum please? It makes communication more human.

And yes, don’t make a big deal about the things that come up during sitting. Just keep on keeping on.

Gassho,

Shugen

Sattoday/LAH


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[Shinshou]

The example Jundo uses about seeing out of two eyes has been helpful...to me, an apt comparison would be wearing old-school red and blue 3D glasses. If you close one eye, everything is definitely red. If you close the other, everything is definitely blue. It seems impossible that both things could be true at once, but when you open both, you can still say everything is red, but also everything is blue, however the experience of these two together creates a deeper experience. I think that's similar to how zazen begins to awaken one to the experience (not idea) that delusion and liberation, although seemingly contradictory, are really just two truths of one experience. But after a while, there's no red, or blue, or anything else. You just take off the glasses and experience what is.

Dan (Shinshou)
Sat Today

[Genjun]

I've found it amazing how we can operate well enough in daily life, even engaging with other people, while not making all of those usual discriminations. Our bodies and minds can function well enough in society without all the "stuff" we can generate in our minds. I remember, a long time ago, worrying that I would forget how to "be me" if I really went deep into this practice. These days I don't need to make "me" so much, as me just happens.

Sat today.

[Jundo]

I've found it amazing how we can operate well enough in daily life, even engaging with other people, while not making all of those usual discriminations. Our bodies and minds can function well enough in society without all the "stuff" we can generate in our minds. I remember, a long time ago, worrying that I would forget how to "be me" if I really went deep into this practice. These days I don't need to make "me" so much, as me just happens.

Sat today.

I find that 35 years of this Practice has not changed me much, yet has changed me thoroughly ... and anyway, there is something beyond change.

What I mean is that we still need things to get by in life, like aversions and attractions, opinions and views, "kitty cat good, angry tiger wanting to eat us bad," thoughts of "me" and "not me," love and broken hearts, regrets for mistakes of the past, some natural worry and planning for the future. etc. etc. I don't think I would want to be without much of that because, not only would it be hard to function in the ordinary world, the absence would leave me cold and unfeeling as stone. No problem to be naturally fearful of hungry tigers, or to have a broken heart when the kitty cat dies.

On the other hand, this Practice has filled me with the Wholeness that shines at the heart of my small "self," with nothing needing to "get" in life, beyond aversions and attractions, free of opinions and views, with nothing to fear and not even "birth vs. death," no me and no not me, no tigers or little cats, a Heart which can never be broken, flowing wholly through and beyond past or future and all measures of time. Truly. There is nothing to "change," because always so whether seen or unseen (like the moon which is present and always shining in space, whether seen at night or hidden in the day).

These together are one, perfume each other, are possible to know at once. The moon lights every dew drop on the blades of grass, every puddle and every wave of the sea. The result is a radical change in the experience of life.

Except, gee, I am the same ass I always have been, the same grump and with too big a sweet tooth and a continued fear of being eaten by tigers. I would not have it any other way (except, well, I could do with less sweets).

Gassho, J

SatTodayLAH