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Thread: Oryoki revival?

  1. #51
    Thank you Shugen, see you all on Sunday. =)

    Gassho
    Shingen

    Sat/LAH

  2. #52
    Treeleaf Unsui Shugen's Avatar
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    Hello All,

    We will meet in the Treeleaf Now Meeting Room. Here is the link: http://www.treeleaf.org/now/go.php?l=meeting-room

    (Donít forget about the time change overnight for North America)

    Gassho,

    Shugen

    Sattoday/LAH


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    Meido Shugen
    明道 修眼

  3. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Shugen View Post
    Hello All,

    We will meet in the Treeleaf Now Meeting Room. Here is the link: http://www.treeleaf.org/now/go.php?l=meeting-room

    (Donít forget about the time change overnight for North America)

    Gassho,

    Shugen

    Sattoday/LAH


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Thanks Shugen, see you tomorrow morning. =)

    Gassho
    Shingen

    Sat/LAH

  4. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Shugen View Post
    Hello All,

    We will meet in the Treeleaf Now Meeting Room. Here is the link: http://www.treeleaf.org/now/go.php?l=meeting-room

    (Don’t forget about the time change overnight for North America)

    Gassho,

    Shugen

    Sattoday/LAH


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    I'll see you all shortly. I'm slightly confused about the time because I had previously worked it out to be 5.00 pm my time, ( 4.00pm gmt) but my phone is telling me that it's actually 4.00pm my time, so I'll check in at 4.00, if there's no-one around I'll come back at 5.00pm. I'm really looking forward to this, thank you again Shugen.
    Gassho
    Meitou
    satwithyoualltoday/lah
    命 Mei - life
    島 Tou - island

  5. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Meitou View Post
    I'll see you all shortly. I'm slightly confused about the time because I had previously worked it out to be 5.00 pm my time, ( 4.00pm gmt) but my phone is telling me that it's actually 4.00pm my time, so I'll check in at 4.00, if there's no-one around I'll come back at 5.00pm. I'm really looking forward to this, thank you again Shugen.
    Gassho
    Meitou
    satwithyoualltoday/lah
    Hey Meitou, it will be starting in 25mins on the hour. See you then. =)

    Gassho
    Shingen

    Sat/LAH

  6. #56
    Treeleaf Unsui Shugen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shingen View Post
    Hey Meitou, it will be starting in 25mins on the hour. See you then. =)

    Gassho
    Shingen

    Sat/LAH
    Yep, see you in a little while!

    Gassho,

    Shugen

    Sattoday/LAH


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Meido Shugen
    明道 修眼

  7. #57
    Awesome stuff, thank you Shugen and folks for coming together to practice, was lovely. =)

    Gassho
    Shingen

    Sat/LAH

  8. #58
    Treeleaf Unsui / Engineer Sekishi's Avatar
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    Wonderful to practice together!

    Today I learned: I need to practice this more - much was forgotten.

    Gassho,
    Sekishi
    #sat #fumbled


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    sekishi
    石志

    He/him. As a novice priest-in-training, this is simply an expression of my opinion. Please take it with a grain of salt.

  9. #59
    Treeleaf Unsui Shugen's Avatar
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    Thank you all for sharing a meal together.

    We will do it again soon!

    Gassho,

    Shugen

    Sattoday/LAH


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Meido Shugen
    明道 修眼

  10. #60
    All ready here...
    So, I did get the time wrong ;-)
    Next month then.
    Gassho,
    Bram

    SAT

  11. #61
    Thank you Shugen and all!
    I need to review things. I am out of practice.

    Gassho,
    Entai
    #st

    泰 Entai (Bill)
    "this is not a dress rehearsal"

  12. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Sekishi View Post
    Wonderful to practice together!

    Today I learned: I need to practice this more - much was forgotten.

    Gassho,
    Sekishi
    #sat #fumbled


    Sent from my Tricorder using Tapatalk Pro
    Yes, I really need to practice, this was my first Oryoki since Rohatsu and I too was fumbling and fiddling. I was also fidgeting because I chose to sit in seiza, thinking it would be easier to reach for things, but I was too low and after 5 minutes I couldn't feel my lower legs, so apologies for all the moving about. I learnt so much today - I'm going to rethink my bowls and utensils and make another utensil holder. I'll now make this a regular weekly practice, especially that knot tying at the end! Washing the bowls with green tea felt quite luxurious and tasted delicious
    Thank you again everyone, it was lovely to share with you all.
    Gassho
    Meitou

    satwithyoualltoday/lah
    satwithyoualltoday/lah
    命 Mei - life
    島 Tou - island

  13. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by bram View Post
    All ready here...
    So, I did get the time wrong ;-)
    Next month then.
    Gassho,
    Bram

    SAT
    Oh no Bram! I nearly made the same mistake, I think it was because of the daylight savings in the US; I checked today at the last minute and my phone told me it was 4.00. not 5.00 - I believe everything my phone tells me otherwise I would also have missed it. At least now you can get plenty of practice in for next month
    Gassho
    Meitou
    satwithyoualltoday/lah
    命 Mei - life
    島 Tou - island

  14. #64
    Indeed, I relied on the 16:00 GMT, but I guess it was actually 15:00 GMT.
    It is probably for the best, as I didn't manage to watch Jundo's demonstration prior to the meeting.
    Looking forward to next month in any case!
    Gassho,
    Bram

  15. #65
    You may be interested in this if a bit of a history buff ...

    I recently discovered some material that shows that this Practice of Oryoki, although refined by Dogen and the Japanese masters, largely reaches back to China centuries before, with elements (such as the grouping of bowls) originating in India long before.

    However, perhaps in all that time, no one has ever attempted to teach and undertake Oryoki in the way of this group of people today. So, a little Oryoki history has been made by you. Thank you to Shugen for a lovely and careful effort to shepard folks through this lovely Practice.

    Gassho, J

    PS - About the origins of Oryoki ...

    I thought our Oryoki folks might find this interesting. 11th Century Oryoki instructions from before the time of Dogen. As well, the author traces aspects back to many centuries before that, and the configuration of the bowls to India. Some of the chants are identical to chants in the 4th century AD ...

    The Chanyuan qinggui (Chinese: 禪苑清規 or The Rules of Purity in the Chan Monastery, is a highly influential set of rules for Zen monasteries compiled by the Chinese monk Changlu Zongze in 1103. Although many other monastic codes aimed at the Zen school would follow, Chanyuan qinggui is the oldest extant work of its kind. Prior to the Rules of Purity, various translations of Indian Vinaya texts had existed in China since the fifth century, while Chinese monks beginning with Daoan has created sangha regulations in the 4th century. However, none was extensive or geared towards any particular sect that existed at that time. Both types of regulations has a direct influence on Chanyuan qinggui, but neither aimed to be nearly as extensive or authoritative. The text regulates nearly all aspects of daily life in a monastery, from the proper protocol for ceremonies to the correct way to visit the toilet. The text became the standard reference for its topic not only in Song Dynasty China, but also well into the Yuan Dynasty, as well as abroad in Korea and Japan.
    Daoxuan himself was largely preserving practices codified more than two hundred years before by Daoan, through his works we can discern indirectly how many Chan monastic practices, many of them still carried out today, can be traced as far back as the fourth century. We see, for example, that the octagonal hammer with its pillar stand, which sits in the center of the Sangha hall in Chan monasteries, is not a Chan invention, but a device used long before by Daoxuan, who, in turn, inherited it from Daoan. The five contemplations [recited when opening the Bowls] and other verses chanted by Chan monks during the Tang and Song are described in Daoxuan’s Xingshi chao, and these, too, can be traced back to Daoan’s time. ... Even the use of four nesting bowls at mealtimes, often thought to be unique to the Chan monastery, can be found in the original Vinaya texts [from India]
    The 11th Century text ...

    To correctly display a nest of bowls, the monk should first
    bow and untie his cloth bundle. He takes out the bowl wiper and
    folds the cloth into a small shape. He then takes out his spoon and
    chopstick bag and places them horizontally, close in front of him. Next
    the clean towel is used to cover the knees, after which the cloth
    bundle is completely opened and the three corners closest to him are
    folded over and neatly joined together at the center, while the far corner
    is allowed to drape over the edge of the platform. He then uses
    both hands to unfold the mat. With his right hand facing down, he
    holds the corner of the mat closest to him on the right side and places
    it over the top of the bowls in front of him. Then, with the left hand
    facing up, he reaches under the mat to pick up the bowls and places
    them on the left side of the mat. Using the fingertips of both hands,
    he takes out the three smaller bowls stacked together and places
    them on the mat one at a time without making any noise. If his seat
    is narrow, he should display only three of his bowls. He then opens
    the bag to take out his spoon and chopsticks. (When removing these
    items, he should take out the chopsticks first. When replacing them, he should
    put the spoon in first.) He places the chopsticks and spoon horizontally
    behind the first bowl, with the handles to the side of his upper shoulder.
    The brush he places on the edge of the mat to the side of the
    lower shoulder with the handle facing out. He then waits for the offering
    of food to all sentient beings.

    ...

    To correctly receive the food, the monk should hold the bowl with
    both hands and lower his hands close to the mat. The bowl should
    be held level. The monk should gauge the amount of food served
    him; he should not request too much and leave unfinished food. He
    must wait until the food has been distributed and the rector has struck
    with the hammer before he lifts up his bowl to make the offering.
    After the hammer has struck, he presses his hands together in honor
    of the food and performs the five contemplations:

    one, to ponder the effort necessary to supply this food and to appreciate its origins; two, to reflect
    on one’s own virtue being insufficient to receive the offering; three, to protect the
    mind’s integrity, to depart from error, and, as a general principle, to avoid being
    greedy; four, at the same time to consider the food as medicine and bodily nourishment,
    preventing emaciation; five, to receive this food as necessary for attaining
    enlightenment.

    After this comes the offering of food to all sentient beings.

    (Before the completion of the five contemplations the food cannot
    be considered one’s own portion and therefore cannot be offered to sentient beings.)
    While the monks perform the offering of food to all sentient beings,
    they chant a verse: “All spirit beings and deities, / Now I offer you this
    food. / May this food be spread in all ten directions / For all spirit beings and
    deities to share.

    ...

    After he has finished eating, if there
    is anything left in his bowl he should use the bowl wiper to clean it
    and then eat it. When he receives the water, the monk should wash
    the largest bowl first and then the other bowls in order from largest
    to smallest. He should not wash the smaller bowls inside the large
    bowl. He then wipes the bowls to dry them. In addition, the
    spoon and chopsticks should be washed and placed inside their bag.
    The water for the bowls should not spill onto the floor around the
    platform. The mantra pronounced while the water from the bowls
    is poured out is “Om mahorase sv‚h‚.” The two thumbs are used to
    stack all the bowls inside each other. With the left hand facing up,
    the monk puts the bowls into the center of the cloth. Then with the
    right hand facing down, he holds the corner of the mat closest to him
    on the right side and puts it on top of the bowls. He then folds the
    mat and places it back on top of the bowls. Next he picks up the corner
    of the cloth closest to the body to cover the bowls. Then he pulls
    the corner of the cloth draped over the end of the platform toward
    himself to cover the bowls. He folds the clean towel and places it, together
    with the bag containing the spoon and chopsticks and the bowl
    brush, on top of the now covered bowls and covers them with the
    bowl wiper. After the monks have put their bundles back in order,
    when they hear the hammer strike to exit the hall, they will all chant
    the verse for the completion of the meal:

    “After the meal, the body is full
    of physical energy / And quakes with a power like the heroes, which permeates
    all ten directions in the past, present, and future./ One can now revert
    causes and transform effects and therefore one need no longer be preoccupied
    with one’s inabilities. / Let all sentient beings obtain supernatural power
    through this strength.”
    http://terebess.hu/zen/Chanyuan-qinggui.pdf

    Gassho, J
    SatToday
    Last edited by Jundo; 03-12-2018 at 01:43 AM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  16. #66
    Thank you Jundo for this walk down history lane. Oryoki is such a wonderful and beautiful practice ... I am happy that we are able to come together and carry on the tradition. =)

    And yes, thank you to our dear Shugen. =)

    Gassho
    Shingen

    Sat/LAH

  17. #67
    Treeleaf Unsui Shugen's Avatar
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    Thank you Jundo.

    Gassho,

    Shugen

    Sattoday/LAH


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    Meido Shugen
    明道 修眼

  18. #68
    Thank you for this Jundo, it makes sense to me that there would always have been rituals around sharing food - I liked the clarity of the instructions.
    I'm very grateful that we can share this practice online as we do everything else, I can't imagine any other Sangha offering this opportunity.
    Gassho
    Meitou
    Satwithyoualltoday lah
    命 Mei - life
    島 Tou - island

  19. #69
    Treeleaf Unsui Shugen's Avatar
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    Hello all,

    The 8th of April is the second Sunday of the month. Shall we meet again for Oryoki practice? And, would anyone object to meeting half an hour later (8:30am Los Angeles time, 11:30am New York City time)?

    Gassho,

    Shugen

    Sattoday/LAH


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Meido Shugen
    明道 修眼

  20. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Shugen View Post
    Hello all,

    The 8th of April is the second Sunday of the month. Shall we meet again for Oryoki practice? And, would anyone object to meeting half an hour later (8:30am Los Angeles time, 11:30am New York City time)?

    Gassho,

    Shugen

    Sattoday/LAH


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Works for me brother! =)

    Gassho
    Shingen

    Sat/LAH

  21. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Shugen View Post
    Hello all,

    The 8th of April is the second Sunday of the month. Shall we meet again for Oryoki practice? And, would anyone object to meeting half an hour later (8:30am Los Angeles time, 11:30am New York City time)?

    Gassho,

    Shugen

    Sattoday/LAH


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Even better for me Shugen, see you there!
    Gassho
    Meitou
    Satwithyoualltoday lah
    命 Mei - life
    島 Tou - island

  22. #72
    Sounds great! See you all then.

    Gassho, Entai
    st

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    泰 Entai (Bill)
    "this is not a dress rehearsal"

  23. #73
    Treeleaf Unsui Shugen's Avatar
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    Hello all,

    We will be meeting Sunday, April 8th at 8:30am Los Angeles time for Oryoki practice in the Treeleaf Now Meeting Room:http://www.treeleaf.org/now/go.php?l=meeting-room

    Gassho,

    Shugen

    Sattoday/LAH
    Meido Shugen
    明道 修眼

  24. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Shugen View Post
    Hello all,

    We will be meeting Sunday, April 8th at 8:30am Los Angeles time for Oryoki practice in the Treeleaf Now Meeting Room:http://www.treeleaf.org/now/go.php?l=meeting-room

    Gassho,

    Shugen

    Sattoday/LAH
    Awesome shugen, see you tomorrow morning. =)

    Gassho
    Shingen

    Sat/LAH

  25. #75
    Dear friends, unfortunately I can't make it after all today, I am so sorry. I will be thinking of you and hopefully later this evening I'll be able to do the practice on my own. Again, I'm sorry that I can't be with you.
    Gassho
    Meitou
    Satwithyoualltoday lah
    命 Mei - life
    島 Tou - island

  26. #76
    Good job Shugen, thank you for your guidance and thank you folks for coming out to practice. =)

    Gassho
    Shingen

    Sat/LAH

  27. #77
    Thank you all for the nice meal together!
    @Meitou, I see you next month too.
    Gassho,
    Bram

  28. #78
    Treeleaf Unsui Shugen's Avatar
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    Hello all,

    It is the second Sunday on May 13th. (Also mother's day here in the US). Shall we meet for Oryoki practice at 8am Los Angeles time?

    Gassho,

    Shugen

    Sattoday/LAH
    Meido Shugen
    明道 修眼

  29. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Shugen View Post
    Hello all,

    It is the second Sunday on May 13th. (Also mother's day here in the US). Shall we meet for Oryoki practice at 8am Los Angeles time?

    Gassho,

    Shugen

    Sattoday/LAH
    I am good to go and can be there. =)

    Gassho
    Shingen

    Sat/LAH

  30. #80
    I can make it, see you there.
    Gassho
    Meitou
    Satwithyoualltoday lah
    命 Mei - life
    島 Tou - island

  31. #81
    Treeleaf Unsui Shugen's Avatar
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    Hello all,

    We will be meeting in the Treeleaf Now Meeting room at 8am Los Angeles time, 11am New York City time.

    Here is the Link:https://www.treeleaf.org/now/go.php?l=meeting-room

    Gassho,

    Shugen

    Sattoday/LAH
    Meido Shugen
    明道 修眼

  32. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Shugen View Post
    Hello all,

    We will be meeting in the Treeleaf Now Meeting room at 8am Los Angeles time, 11am New York City time.

    Here is the Link:https://www.treeleaf.org/now/go.php?l=meeting-room

    Gassho,

    Shugen

    Sattoday/LAH
    See you in the morning folks. =)

    Gassho
    Shingen

    Sat/LAH

  33. #83
    Regret I'll have to miss this one.
    See you all at the next meeting.

    Gassho
    Washin
    sattoday
    Kaido (有道) Every Way
    Washin (和信) Harmony Trust
    ----
    I am a novice priest-in-training. Anything what I say must not be considered as teaching
    and should be taken with a 'grain of salt'.

  34. #84
    Thank you Shugen and Meitou, lovely practicing with you this morning. =)

    Gassho
    Shingen

    Sat/LAH

  35. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Shingen View Post
    Thank you Shugen and Meitou, lovely practicing with you this morning. =)

    Gassho
    Shingen

    Sat/LAH
    Thank you Shingen and deep bow to Shugen for leading, lovely to be with you both. I'm getting there!
    Gassho
    Meitou
    satwithyoualltoday/lah/practised oryoki
    命 Mei - life
    島 Tou - island

  36. #86
    Treeleaf Unsui Shugen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meitou View Post
    Thank you Shingen and deep bow to Shugen for leading, lovely to be with you both. I'm getting there!
    Gassho
    Meitou
    satwithyoualltoday/lah/practised oryoki
    Thank you both. I always enjoy sharing a meal together.

    If anyone else is interested in Oryoki practice but is unable to join because of the time or day, please pm me.
    I would be happy to try and accommodate.

    Gassho,

    Shugen

    Sattoday/LAH


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    Meido Shugen
    明道 修眼

  37. #87
    Sorry I missed it this month. Hope to see you next month!
    Gassho, Entai
    st

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    泰 Entai (Bill)
    "this is not a dress rehearsal"

  38. #88
    Treeleaf Unsui Shugen's Avatar
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    Hello all,

    It is the second Sunday on June 10th. Shall we meet for Oryoki practice at 8am Los Angeles time?

    Gassho,

    Shugen

    Sattoday/LAH
    Meido Shugen
    明道 修眼

  39. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Shugen View Post
    Hello all,

    It is the second Sunday on June 10th. Shall we meet for Oryoki practice at 8am Los Angeles time?

    Gassho,

    Shugen

    Sattoday/LAH
    You betcha ... look forward to it. =)

    Gassho
    Shingen

    Sat/LAH

  40. #90
    Sorry friends, I can't make it today, I'll do the practice tomorrow with you all in mind.
    Gassho
    Meitou
    Satwithyoualltoday lah
    命 Mei - life
    島 Tou - island

  41. #91
    Regret, I won't be able to participate today.
    Looking forward to our next gathering.

    Gassho
    Washin
    st
    Kaido (有道) Every Way
    Washin (和信) Harmony Trust
    ----
    I am a novice priest-in-training. Anything what I say must not be considered as teaching
    and should be taken with a 'grain of salt'.

  42. #92
    Treeleaf Unsui Shugen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shugen View Post
    Hello all,

    We will be meeting in the Treeleaf Now Meeting room at 8am Los Angeles time, 11am New York City time.

    Here is the Link:https://www.treeleaf.org/now/go.php?l=meeting-room

    Gassho,

    Shugen

    Sattoday/LAH




    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Meido Shugen
    明道 修眼

  43. #93
    Awesome stuff, thank you Shugen ... this sure is a practice that teaches to be present in each and every moment. =)

    Gassho
    Shingen

    Sat/LAH

  44. #94
    I am not able to attend on Sunday morning (EST) due to a weekly class conflict. I am hoping to view the demonstration video soon. I would like to learn more about this ceremony, I find the concept so intriguing.

    Gassho
    Kim
    St lh

    Sent from my SM-G930U using Tapatalk
    迷安 - Mei An - Wandering At Rest

  45. #95
    Treeleaf Unsui Shugen's Avatar
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    Oryoki revival?

    Hello all,

    Normally this Sunday (July 8th)would be when we meet for Oryoki. I will be going out of town for a family vacation. We can reschedule for later in the month or just meet again in August.

    Please let me know your wishes.

    Gassho,

    Shugen

    Sattoday/LAH


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    Last edited by Shugen; 07-04-2018 at 11:00 PM.
    Meido Shugen
    明道 修眼

  46. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Shugen View Post
    Hello all,

    Normally this Sunday (July 8th)would be when we meet for Oryoki. I will be going out of town for a family vacation. We can reschedule for later in the month or just meet again in August.

    Please let me know your wishes.

    Gassho,

    Shugen

    Sattoday/LAH


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    I am easy and will go with the group ... =)

    Gassho
    Shingen

    Sat/LAH

  47. #97
    Sorry to have missed a couple of meetings, I should be able to attend the next one - same as Shingen, I'm easy about when that happens.
    Gassho
    Meitou
    satwithyoualltoday/ lah
    命 Mei - life
    島 Tou - island

  48. #98
    Treeleaf Unsui Shugen's Avatar
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    Hello all,

    Shall we start up again?

    Letís meet this Sunday (and every Sunday after that) at 8:15am Los Angeles time.

    Since it has been a little while, and Shingen is going to need to coach me a bit on recording, letís just share a meal together without recording it.

    After this one, we can start recording them for those that wish to join us but are unable to.

    Gassho,

    Shugen

    Sattoday/LAH


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Meido Shugen
    明道 修眼

  49. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Shugen View Post
    Hello all,

    Shall we start up again?

    Letís meet this Sunday (and every Sunday after that) at 8:15am Los Angeles time.

    Since it has been a little while, and Shingen is going to need to coach me a bit on recording, letís just share a meal together without recording it.

    After this one, we can start recording them for those that wish to join us but are unable to.

    Gassho,

    Shugen

    Sattoday/LAH


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Sounds good to me Shugen ... I will be there. =)

    Also, if you or others need a recording for this Sunday, I can always set one up in the interm ... Let me know what is best.

    Gassho
    Shingen

    Sat/LAH

  50. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Shugen View Post
    Hello all,

    Shall we start up again?

    Let’s meet this Sunday (and every Sunday after that) at 8:15am Los Angeles time.

    Since it has been a little while, and Shingen is going to need to coach me a bit on recording, let’s just share a meal together without recording it.

    After this one, we can start recording them for those that wish to join us but are unable to.

    Gassho,

    Shugen

    Sattoday/LAH


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    I believe that's 17.15 my time. See you there / here
    Gassho
    Meitou
    Satwithyoualltoday lah
    命 Mei - life
    島 Tou - island

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