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Thread: Make Your Own Oryoki Set

  1. #1

    Make Your Own Oryoki Set

    I know I've seen it somewhere, but I just can't find it - ages ago I saw a thread where folk were talking about putting their own sets together - there was also a great Jundo video on the same subject. Can anyone point me in the right direction? I've found bowls, but I need some info about the cloths, sizes etc.
    Thank you!

    Gassho
    Frankie
    satwithyoualltoday/lah
    Last edited by Jundo; 07-21-2020 at 04:04 PM.

  2. #2
    Hi Frankie

    Jundo's video is usually to be found at the beginning of the Rohatsu thread.

    I don't know if this is universally the case (and probably depends on bowl sizes for the outside cloth) but the cloths I received with my bowls are the following sizes:

    Wrapping/table cloth - 45cm x 45cm (18 square)
    Drying cloth - 30cm x 30cm (12 square)
    Lap cloth - 55cm x 27.5cm (22 x 11)

    This booklet contains dimensions and was linked to by Myozan in a previous thread: https://terebess.hu/zen/szoto/oryoki-instructions.pdf


    Gassho
    Kokuu
    -sattoday/lah-
    ------------------------------------
    Feel free to message me if you wish to talk about issues around practicing with physical limitations. This is something I have been sitting with for a fair while and am happy to help with suggestions or just offer a listening ear.

  3. #3
    This is the "things around the house" do-it-your(non)self Oryoki kit ...

    RETREAT PREPARATION LESSON I -

    Below in this thread, we will provide various short lessons and tips to help you participate. Please review them between now and the days of the Retreat.

    First, the following video will explain a bit about how to make and dance with a simple, home Oryoki kit. All you need is:

    1 - Clean Pillow Case
    2 - Bowls and 1 Tea Cup (that fit into each other)
    1 - Cloth Napkin
    1 - Small Wiping Cloth
    1 - Table Spoon
    1 - Tea Spoon or Chop Sticks
    1 - Small Cut Piece of a New Sponge
    1 - Letter Envelope
    1 - A small dish on the side for the "Hungry Ghosts"



    Gassho, J

    SatTodayLAH
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  4. #4
    This video has come in handy many times!

    Gassho, sat today, lah
    求道芸化 Kyudo Geika
    I am just a priest-in-training, please do not take anything I say as a teaching.

  5. #5
    Thanks everyone and thank you Jundo, this is such a great video. I'm gradually putting a set together, although finding a small spatula is proving a challenge. I'm thinking of making the wrapping cloth from material left over from the rakusu, perhaps using the same style of stitching.
    This has turned out to be a great Ango project.
    Gassho
    Frankie
    Satwithyoualltoday /lah

  6. #6
    Eishuu
    Guest
    Don't know if this is helpful to anyone, but after much hunting online I founded a nice little Etsy shop in Thailand that does oryoki sets. But they also sell the napkins and the utensils separately and for a reasonable price. I eventually found some melamine oryoki bowls on Amazon (unfortunately they're no longer available). But if anyone wants to either buy a cheapish set or get the accessories (Frankie, they have spatulas), I had a good experience with this shop. https://www.etsy.com/uk/shop/GreatEa...on_id=15653508

    Gassho
    Lucy
    ST/LAH

  7. #7
    I saw that seller too, Lucy. Thank you for commenting on your experience with them.

    Jundo, is this the full oryoki set as it seems pretty reasonable? https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/2196...su-5-bowl-sets


    Gassho
    Kokuu
    -sattoday/lah-
    ------------------------------------
    Feel free to message me if you wish to talk about issues around practicing with physical limitations. This is something I have been sitting with for a fair while and am happy to help with suggestions or just offer a listening ear.

  8. #8
    Eishuu
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokuu View Post
    I saw that seller too, Lucy. Thank you for commenting on your experience with them.

    Jundo, is this the full oryoki set as it seems pretty reasonable? https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/2196...su-5-bowl-sets


    Gassho
    Kokuu
    -sattoday/lah-
    Just to clarify, I can't attest to their bowls as I only ordered the utensils and napkins, but the guy was polite and sent them very quickly. I also thought the postage was very reasonable. I did think that their bowls looked lovely though. If you do get some I'd be interested to know what you think.

    Gassho
    Lucy
    ST/LAH

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokuu View Post
    I saw that seller too, Lucy. Thank you for commenting on your experience with them.

    Jundo, is this the full oryoki set as it seems pretty reasonable? https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/2196...su-5-bowl-sets


    Gassho
    Kokuu
    -sattoday/lah-
    Hi Koku,

    No, I would have to say that they are not an orthodox Soto style set (maybe Rinzai, but I have my doubts even then). The first point is that a "proper" Buddha Bowl (the large bow) should have a fully rounded bottom, meaning that what seems the smallest saucer is actually a stand for it to rest upon ... the bowl itself is also quite rounded.



    Here is the appearance of a Soto priest's set.





    I would not call the set you point to inexpensive, although it purports to be lacquer. There are less expensive sets, but they are usually some manmade material like bakelite (however, this does help with ease of care).


    Many of the western sets, for lay people especially, have flat bottoms on all bowls including the largest. It is not so important that shape or content, and frankly, I think a home built set is perfectly fine if just for personal use.

    Gassho, J

    SatTodayLAH
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  10. #10
    PS - Here is a better picture of the rounded bottom of the Buddha Bowl, although the color is wrong (this is by an artist). It should be black.

    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  11. #11
    Lucy thanks for that link, I had a look and yes, the accessories are a good price - the bowls, while beautiful, are completely out of my price range. I'm wondering now how much the trainee monks and priests in Japan have to spend on their sets, they look so beautiful ( and expensive!)
    As wonderful as it must be to have one of these beautiful sets, my belief these days is that intent should triumph over form. I will admit right now that my two bowls cost €1 each and I found them in the pet department of a local supermarket, the third is a small tea bowl from a Vietnamese tea set that I've had for some years - but they all work so well together. If I should win the Lotto however ( or rather if my husband does as I don't play) I'll buy everyone the Oryoki set of their choice
    Gassho
    Frankie
    satwithyoualltoday/lah

  12. #12
    As a footnote, I found this rather lovely shop online today, https://www.boutiquezen.com/ full of delicious things that I mostly can't afford. The Oryoki set is more reasonably priced than some, although I can never get past paying so much for plastic bowls. However it is all sold separately and looks to be very nice quality. Id' like to know a bit more about the Japanese incense they sell and why some of it is so expensive - I wonder if it is artisan made - last night I was watching a clip on a TV show called Japanese Style Generator ( Netflix) about the making of Japanese candles, so beautiful and so labour intensive I can't even imagine what a fair price would be for them. Window shopping costs nothing, thankfully!
    Gassho
    Frankie
    satwithyoualltoday/lah

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
    Id' like to know a bit more about the Japanese incense they sell and why some of it is so expensive
    Hi Frankie,
    the high priced ones most likely contain Agarwood https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agarwood (called Jinko or Kyara in its better qualities).
    This is a very rare wood, that, together with a fungus produces this wonderful scent. Also the oil, extracted from the wood, called Oud is very famous.
    Depending on Agarwood quality, there are waaaay more expensive ones avail ;-)
    Gassho,
    Kotei sat/lah today.

    義道 冴庭 / Gidou Kotei.
    Being a novice priest doesn't mean that my writing about the Dharma is more substantial than yours. Actually, it might well be the other way round.

  14. #14
    Really, unless you are heading to Eiheiji in Japan to train, or want to make this a lifetime passion and support a Japanese craftsman (assuming the bowls are not actually made in China) ...

    ... hunt around, make your own.

    Gassho, J


    SatTodayLAH
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokuu View Post
    This booklet contains dimensions and was linked to by Myozan in a previous thread: https://terebess.hu/zen/szoto/oryoki-instructions.pdf


    Gassho
    Kokuu
    -sattoday/lah-
    The utensil holder is simple enough to do.


    Gassho
    Sat



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Marc Connery
    明岩
    Myo̅ Gan - Bright Cliff

    I put the Monkey in Monkeymind

  16. #16
    Lovely Myogan.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    Really, unless you are heading to Eiheiji in Japan to train, or want to make this a lifetime passion and support a Japanese craftsman (assuming the bowls are not actually made in China) ...

    ... hunt around, make your own.

    Gassho, J


    SatTodayLAH
    Yes this is exactly what I am doing, it's a great exercise in creativity and improvisation. I find that when I make something myself I feel more connected to it and it takes on a different value.
    Thank you Kotei for the info about the incense, loved reading about that and thanks Myogan for the utensil holder info. I'm thinking of adapting an origami chopstick sleeve.
    Gassho
    Frankie
    Satwithyoualltoday /lah

  18. #18
    The utensil holder is simple enough to do.
    https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...37f69ff996.jpg
    Looking nice, Myogan.

    it's a great exercise in creativity and improvisation. I find that when I make something myself I feel more connected to it and it takes on a different value.
    I agree, Frankie. I find this encouraging for my practice. I have made this by myself (including the utensils which I made out of the regular wooden kutlery of the bigger size)
    20171025_101556.jpg

    Gassho
    Washin
    ST

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Washin View Post
    Looking nice, Myogan.


    I agree, Frankie. I find this encouraging for my practice. I have made this by myself (including the utensils which I made out of the regular wooden kutlery of the bigger size)
    20171025_101556.jpg

    Gassho
    Washin
    ST
    That looks great Washin! I do like these utensil holders, perhaps when the rakusu is completed, I'll attempt to make one. Thank you.
    Gassho
    Frankie
    Satwithyoualltoday /lah

  20. #20

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Washin View Post
    Thanks for the practice reminder ;-).

    Gassho,
    Kotei sat/lah today.

    義道 冴庭 / Gidou Kotei.
    Being a novice priest doesn't mean that my writing about the Dharma is more substantial than yours. Actually, it might well be the other way round.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Washin View Post

    Gassho
    Frankie
    Satwithyoualltoday /lah

  23. #23
    Thanks for the tips in this thread !

    Just had the opportunity to cross the border to participate in a Sesshin at the nearest Zen temple in France. I sew an Oryoki set upfront consisting of the following pieces (all sizes final sizes after sewing the hem):

    • Drying cloth (white) 30x30 cm
    • Lap cloth (black) 33 x 72 cm
    • Wrapping cloth (black) 54 x 54 cm
    • Flat bottom black bowl, a spoon, and a fork


    That worked out pretty well. Usually, I would just let the corner of the wrapping cloth closest to me hang from the table after unwrapping it because we were sitting (kneeling) tightly. Because I had no utensil holder, I placed the spoon & fork in between the final fold of the lap cloth when wrapping things up. That prevented the spoon & fork from falling out easily. Maybe not the "correct" way to do it, but nobody complained

    It's really nice make use of the Oryoki set at home from time to time (and also saves some of the dishwashing afterwards ).

    Gassho,
    Souchi

    SatToday

  24. #24
    Treeleaf Unsui Shugen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Souchi View Post
    Thanks for the tips in this thread !

    Just had the opportunity to cross the border to participate in a Sesshin at the nearest Zen temple in France. I sew an Oryoki set upfront consisting of the following pieces (all sizes final sizes after sewing the hem):

    • Drying cloth (white) 30x30 cm
    • Lap cloth (black) 33 x 72 cm
    • Wrapping cloth (black) 54 x 54 cm
    • Flat bottom black bowl, a spoon, and a fork


    That worked out pretty well. Usually, I would just let the corner of the wrapping cloth closest to me hang from the table after unwrapping it because we were sitting (kneeling) tightly. Because I had no utensil holder, I placed the spoon & fork in between the final fold of the lap cloth when wrapping things up. That prevented the spoon & fork from falling out easily. Maybe not the "correct" way to do it, but nobody complained

    It's really nice make use of the Oryoki set at home from time to time (and also saves some of the dishwashing afterwards ).

    Gassho,
    Souchi

    SatToday
    I am glad that it was useful to you. We meet every second Sunday of the month to practice together if you are interested in joining in. (We did skip July but will meet again in August)

    Gassho,

    Shugen

    Sattoday/LAH


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    Meido Shugen
    明道 修眼

  25. #25
    Thanks, Shugen. Sunday usually clashes with our family day, but I will keep an eye on the dates and join if it is possible for me.

    Gassho,
    Souchi

    SatToday

  26. #26
    First attempt; a work in progress.
    Everything but the chopsticks scrounged from second-hand shops.





    Sat today/LAH
    Last edited by Emmet; 09-15-2018 at 08:12 PM.
    Emmet

  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Emmet View Post
    First attempt; a work in progress.





    Sat today/LAH
    Looking good Emmet. =)

    Gassho
    Shingen

    Sat/LAH

  28. #28
    Wow Emmet, that looks great, love those bowls! I only just learned this week how to do that knot, I've been trying to figure it out for a year - I realised I had misread the instructions

    Gassho
    Meitou
    satwithyoualltoday/lah
    命 Mei - life
    島 Tou - island

  29. #29
    Treeleaf Unsui Shugen's Avatar
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    Very nice Emmet!

    Gassho,

    Shugen

    Sattoday/LAH


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    Meido Shugen
    明道 修眼

  30. #30
    Lovely set, Emmet. Great job

    Gassho
    Washin
    just sat
    Kaido (有道) Every Way
    Washin (和信) Harmony Trust
    ----
    I am a novice priest-in-training. Anything what I say must not be considered as teaching
    and should be taken with a 'grain of salt'.

  31. #31
    Member Koki's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Parma Ohio (just outside Cleveland)
    Good Afternoon All!

    I will begin putting together my Oryoki set. This is all new to me, so it will be a work in progress.
    I will be putting my own set together for personal use, and hope to begin this practice 2-3 times per week.
    Once I have it all together, I hope to join you for a meal online here, with our wonderful Sangha.

    Any suggestions you may have, are very welcome.

    Gassho

    Frank
    Satoday

  32. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Kunzang View Post
    Good Afternoon All!

    I will begin putting together my Oryoki set. This is all new to me, so it will be a work in progress.
    I will be putting my own set together for personal use, and hope to begin this practice 2-3 times per week.
    Once I have it all together, I hope to join you for a meal online here, with our wonderful Sangha.

    Any suggestions you may have, are very welcome.

    Gassho

    Frank
    Satoday
    That's lovely Frank! If you haven't already, do watch Jundo's excellent video above in this thread, so many good ideas. This is a great opportunity to be creative - I found some good bowls in the pet dept of a local department store! I look forward to you joining us as soon as possible.
    Gassho
    Meitou
    satwithyoualltodaylah
    命 Mei - life
    島 Tou - island

  33. #33
    Member Koki's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
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    Parma Ohio (just outside Cleveland)
    Thank you Meitou!

    Im going to take a ride to a local shop that carries All sorts of things appropriate for putting together Oryoki!

    Ill see what kind of treasures I can find!

    Gassho
    Frank
    Satoday

    Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

  34. #34
    Hello,

    some weeks ago I went to the market here in Vietnam and bought one of those "buckets" for food.
    I actually wanted to do it to reduce my waste. Vietnamese love putting everything in styropor boxes. I do not have a kitchen and have to buy every meal, so sometimes it is just too much waste.

    While being home, I realised that it just looks like an oryoki set.

    I would love to join oryoki but, as I wrote above, I have no kitchen. I cannot do it at a local food stall. Maybe another time I will get some food home.

    Gassho,
    Karsten
    SAT/LAHIMG_20181004_114355_HDR__1540819254_73391.jpgIMG_20181005_064451__1540819359_57573.jpg

  35. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Kha View Post
    I would love to join oryoki but, as I wrote above, I have no kitchen. I cannot do it at a local food stall. Maybe another time I will get some food home.
    Hello Karsten,

    You don't need a kitchen to practice ... a lot of the time I just use either dry cereal or toast. I boil some water which I use in my small bowl and for clean up. Super easy with no cooking required. =)

    Gassho
    Shingen

    Sat/LAH

  36. #36
    Treeleaf Unsui Shugen's Avatar
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    Redding California USA

    Make your own Oryoki set

    As Shingen said, simple is good. A little something to eat and some warm water....

    Please join us if you can!

    Gassho,

    Shugen

    Sattoday/LAH


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Meido Shugen
    明道 修眼

  37. #37
    Thank you both, Shugen and Shingen.
    At the moment I still feel not being ready, but I will try to join an oryoki at the end of the month. I need to prepare some more things and want to read more about the oryoki.

    Gassho,
    Karsten

    SAT

  38. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Kha View Post
    Thank you both, Shugen and Shingen.
    At the moment I still feel not being ready, but I will try to join an oryoki at the end of the month. I need to prepare some more things and want to read more about the oryoki.

    Gassho,
    Karsten

    SAT


    Gassho
    Shingen

    Sat/LAH

  39. #39
    Treeleaf Unsui Shugen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Kha View Post
    Thank you both, Shugen and Shingen.
    At the moment I still feel not being ready, but I will try to join an oryoki at the end of the month. I need to prepare some more things and want to read more about the oryoki.

    Gassho,
    Karsten

    SAT
    If there is anything I can do to help or if you would like to get together and practice, please let me know.

    Gassho,

    Shugen

    Sattoday/LAH


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Meido Shugen
    明道 修眼

  40. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    With respect to the utensils holder: Are there any rules how the corners of the white cloth should be folded before sewing them? I think the instructions in the pdf file from Kannon Do sangha don't contain anything about this. In the picture posted by Jundo above it looks to me like they are folded diagonally and that the border of the short edge is on top of the border of the long edges. Here are two pictures to illustrate what I mean (long edges left and right, short edge at the bottom).

    IMG_20181223_153308.jpg

    IMG_20181223_153332.jpg

    The second picture represents the state right before folding the two little triangles and building up the "barber's pole".

    Gassho
    Souchi

    SatToday
    Last edited by Souchi; 12-23-2018 at 03:00 PM.

  41. #41
    Hi Souchi,

    I have absolutely no experience in sewing a utensil case, so I can only comment by looking at mine.

    I think the diagonal stripes are not found on most of the cases I have seen in the west, so I am not sure about the need for those. Most I have seen in the west are a solid pattern.

    Here are a couple of more photos that may help.






    The top is poiny, but the bottom of the bag (where the utensils fall when fully inserted) is flat.

    If that is not helpful, I will photograph mine and post.

    Gassho, J

    STLah
    Last edited by Jundo; 12-24-2018 at 01:19 AM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  42. #42
    Treeleaf Unsui Shugen's Avatar
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    Hi Souchi,

    I also have not sewn a utensil case so am not sure best how to advise you. Mine is a single color and was a gift.

    Gassho,

    Shugen

    Sattoday/LAH


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Meido Shugen
    明道 修眼

  43. #43
    Hello Souchi,

    I have sewn my holder using the Kannon Do's pdf. On pages 8,9 you may find detailed instrutions
    how to proceed as per the figures 6 and 7.
    https://terebess.hu/zen/szoto/oryoki...BV0fH3FSMT97C4

    Here's how it looks when done:
    20181224_102909.jpg20181224_102923.jpg

    Hope it is helpful.

    Gassho,
    Washin
    stlah
    Kaido (有道) Every Way
    Washin (和信) Harmony Trust
    ----
    I am a novice priest-in-training. Anything what I say must not be considered as teaching
    and should be taken with a 'grain of salt'.

  44. #44
    Thanks, I think I have to clarify a bit more what I meant. Curiously, I seem to have overlooked Emmet's utensil holder because on his pictures you can see what I was referring to when I wrote about folding the corners diagonally.

    00.jpg

    01.jpg

    So I guess it is also OK to fold the corners that way.

    Merry Christmas

    Gassho
    Souchi

    SatToday

  45. #45
    Thanks for your inspiration, here is what I came up with: a barber pole version and a more simple one; also a very basic setsu.

    utensil-holder-setsu.jpg

    The simple two-colored version consists of a piece of white cloth and a shorter piece of black cloth (if anyone is interested, I can describe in more detail how it is sewn).

    Personally, I prefer the more simple one since it is not so eye-catching when you eat with other people who mostly use one-colored utensil holders. Anyway, it was a nice sewing practice

    Gassho
    Souchi

    SatToday

  46. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Souchi View Post
    Thanks for your inspiration, here is what I came up with: a barber pole version and a more simple one; also a very basic setsu.

    utensil-holder-setsu.jpg

    The simple two-colored version consists of a piece of white cloth and a shorter piece of black cloth (if anyone is interested, I can describe in more detail how it is sewn).

    Personally, I prefer the more simple one since it is not so eye-catching when you eat with other people who mostly use one-colored utensil holders. Anyway, it was a nice sewing practice

    Gassho
    Souchi

    SatToday
    Looks great, well done. =)

    Gassho
    Shingen

    Sat/LAH

  47. #47
    Lovely! Thanks for sharing, Souchi.

    Gassho
    Washin
    stlah
    Kaido (有道) Every Way
    Washin (和信) Harmony Trust
    ----
    I am a novice priest-in-training. Anything what I say must not be considered as teaching
    and should be taken with a 'grain of salt'.

  48. #48
    Treeleaf Unsui Shugen's Avatar
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    Redding California USA
    Very nice!

    Gassho,

    Shugen

    Sattoday/LAH


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Meido Shugen
    明道 修眼

  49. #49
    A few weeks ago my wife and I went to a new secondhand shop that had recently received a shipment of things from Japan. I scoured the shop to find some bowls that would fit inside each other, and although they certainly aren't a traditional set, at least they neatly fit within each other. We don't have many things in our kitchen - even Jundo's does whatever works set barely worked, I think I used a plate, a bowl, and a tea cup and a small tablecloth to wrap it all.

    The bowls are a funny mix of colors and materials, combined with nearly sewn scap cloths, all of different materials and colors as well.

    Since getting things assembled, I've been occasionally doing a simple oryoki ceremony every few days. Quite the different experience then eating with phone in hand or having a conversation.

    Gassho,

    Nanrin

    Sat today

    PS
    At the same shop, I got a new teapot as my old one was broken by my stepdaughter on accident. It was only a dollar or two. I don't have any sort of a ceremony I do all drinking tea, but it is a pleasure to slowly brew it and enjoy it without doing anything else in particular.
    南 - Southern
    林 - Forest

  50. #50
    Looks good Nanrin! =)

    Gassho
    Shingen

    Sat/LAH

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