Zen Practice with Physical Illness or Disability

[Seibu]

Good news
Ultrasound of my heart:
Normal range 50 to 70
Mine is 55 to 60
Heart muscle normal: some minor change stenosis and regurgitation.
Gassho
sat/ lah
Tai Shi


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Sounds great Tai Shi

Gassho,
Seibu
Sattoday

[Tai Shi]

Great news about your heart and I have a pacemaker still I was strong enough for brain surgery. I was put through every test to determine heart muscle strength. I am happy for you!!!!
Gassho
sat/ lah


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[Kokuu]

Hi Angel

What is your first language? I am not sure how much has been written about Zen and autism/neurodiversity but we do have some members at Treeleaf who have autism.

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday/lah-

[Hōkan]

What is your first language?

I'm not sure, but I found this (densely written) explainer that may be what this is about: https://www.integratedtreatmentservi...peak-language/

TLDR: Some autistic folks communicate/think with things other than than the word symbols that many of the rest of us use.

Sat

[Kokuu]

I did wonder if that is what Angel meant, Hōkan.

Angel, there are perhaps teachings like that which work on a neurotypical mind. However, many Zen teachings also appear inpenitrable at first and many rely on symbols and images so I don't know if they would cut through neuro-atypical thinking. Other neuro-diverse folk in the sangha may be able to offer suggestions of teachings that have worked for them and if they have struggled in the same way.

In our school of Soto Zen, our primary teaching is that of 'just sitting' (Shikantaza), which goes beyond words and language. It is my hope that this practice is universally appropriate.

I did manage to find a couple of resources related to autism and Zen practice. I do not know if they are relevant or they may be stepping stones to something that is:
https://the-art-of-autism.com/the-au...enlightenment/
http://ravingjoy.blogspot.com/2017/0...th-author.html

There is also an autism sitting group, Autsit, which means three times a month on Zoom: http://autsit.net/

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday/lah-

[Meian]

Angel,

Welcome to Treeleaf. I am meian, and autism level 1.

While I can't direct you to specific teachings or translate them for you, perhaps a discussion on how we understand these teachings (how we translate them) may be useful sometimes.

Written expression is also my primary communication. However, translation can also be difficult for me. I share this challenge.

You can message me if I can help with Treeleaf or autism and Zen.

Gassho meian st lh

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[Doshin]

Angel,

Welcome to Treeleaf. I am meian, and autism level 1.

While I can't direct you to specific teachings or translate them for you, perhaps a discussion on how we understand these teachings (how we translate them) may be useful sometimes.

Written expression is also my primary communication. However, translation can also be difficult for me. I share this challenge.

You can message me if I can help with Treeleaf or autism and Zen.

Gassho meian st lh

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Doshin
St

[Angel]

Hi Angel What is your first language?

My apologies; I could have been more clear. Though I know that I am not the only one to use the phrase 'first language' in regards to the way that I process language rather than the language itself, it clearly is not something that has reached the social consciousness. I did not know that when I wrote it. I have often used the example, to good effect with both neurotypicals and neurodiverse folks, that the world is made up of PC's - and I am a Mac. I work perfectly fine, right up until I try to run 'Word for Windows' on my system - then it crashes.

In our school of Soto Zen, our primary teaching is that of 'just sitting' (Shikantaza), which goes beyond words and language. It is my hope that this practice is universally appropriate.

It is unlikely to be coincidence that I gravitated to the simplicity of Zen over other branches. Still, part of my practice consists of a morning meditation followed by a short reading by the local Zen master. Favorite's of hers include some names that have appeared elsewhere in this thread - Darlene Cohen, Robert Aitken, etc. Sitting is vital, but this fruit is often out of my reach. Perhaps you, or someone else here, has had the opportunity to enter into a dharma dialogue with a teacher. I understand that many folks find value in this exchange, gaining clarity - whereas for me, I am being fed a word salad. A teacher might point to the moon differently if s/he pointing for a blind person.

Meian: I appreciate your kind offer, I'm sure I'll be in touch at some point.

I am humbled by the responses and the links. I have not yet had the opportunity to follow them but expect I shall, later today. Thank you to Kokuu, Hokan, and Meian.

sat

[Jakuden]

My apologies; I could have been more clear. Though I know that I am not the only one to use the phrase 'first language' in regards to the way that I process language rather than the language itself, it clearly is not something that has reached the social consciousness. I did not know that when I wrote it. I have often used the example, to good effect with both neurotypicals and neurodiverse folks, that the world is made up of PC's - and I am a Mac. I work perfectly fine, right up until I try to run 'Word for Windows' on my system - then it crashes.



It is unlikely to be coincidence that I gravitated to the simplicity of Zen over other branches. Still, part of my practice consists of a morning meditation followed by a short reading by the local Zen master. Favorite's of hers include some names that have appeared elsewhere in this thread - Darlene Cohen, Robert Aitken, etc. Sitting is vital, but this fruit is often out of my reach. Perhaps you, or someone else here, has had the opportunity to enter into a dharma dialogue with a teacher. I understand that many folks find value in this exchange, gaining clarity - whereas for me, I am being fed a word salad. A teacher might point to the moon differently if s/he pointing for a blind person.

Meian: I appreciate your kind offer, I'm sure I'll be in touch at some point.

I am humbled by the responses and the links. I have not yet had the opportunity to follow them but expect I shall, later today. Thank you to Kokuu, Hokan, and Meian.

Hi Angel! I am what would have been considered Aspergers in the past system and have ADHD as well. Your request really gave me pause, as I would not have even considered that there might be Zen teachings out there that would particularly appeal to neuroatypical folks. Like you I’m sure, I try to fit the square peg into the round hole on a daily basis.

Initially I found Joko Beck’s books to be the most clear and if not for them, the others I read (which included some of the most widely recommended) would probably not have led me down this path.

I also find Domyo Burke’s “Zen Studies Podcast” to be very helpful. She is very clear and uses good examples and metaphors, and the podcasts are categorized in such a way that you can organize listening in whatever way is most helpful to you.

Treeleaf is a treasure chest of teachings available in every form—video, Zazenkai, guest lectures, book club, and general teaching posts in bite-sized thought-provoking essays. Jundo has a way of explaining the teachings that penetrates even the most resistant of my brain states. His beginner series cemented many of the concepts (and non-concepts) for me. And he is incredibly dedicated to being available to directly answer questions on the forum as well as to helping us find accommodating ways to practice. In my first years here I would constantly dig through the archives and find things that resonated.

If nothing else, you have support and friends here and we can try to help in whatever way we can!

(Sorry for such a long post)

Gassho,
Jakuden
SatToday


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[Angel]

Initially I found Joko Beck’s books to be the most clear and if not for them, the others I read (which included some of the most widely recommended) would probably not have led me down this path.

I have found Joko Beck's book at my favorite bookseller just now and will explore the writings moving forward. Thank you for the recommendation. I have never failed to be surprised at how one teacher/author can resonate with me so strongly whilst others - even those that come highly recommended, often do not. As difficult as it can sometimes be for me to discern the meaning behind a neurotypical explanation, there are those who seem to be able transcend my personal challenges with ease. Adya is one such teacher. Ajahn Brahm is another. Thank you for your welcome.

[Kokuu]

Hi Angel

If there is some agreement between neuro-atypical people here as to which resources are more accessible, we can look to providing a list for any new members coming with similar processing issues.

Please do share with us anything you find helpful. We try to be as inclusive as possible in making the teachings and practice work for people but some areas are currently more developed than others.

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday/lah-

[Jakuden]

As difficult as it can sometimes be for me to discern the meaning behind a neurotypical explanation, there are those who seem to be able transcend my personal challenges with ease. Adya is one such teacher. Ajahn Brahm is another. Thank you for your welcome.

Thank you in return for your recommendations! I am excited to explore them.

Gassho
Jakuden
SatToday


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[Tai Shi]

I’m on Medication double duty. Seizure, and pain. Works for both. My AVM was masked when it began to grow. Cause seizure. I was experiencing paralyzed seizure. That’s what tipped off doctors. Then imagining was there showing AVM in 3d and enlarged. Looked like a spider except many legs. Thank you everyone for being there! Okay! I feel the foam where doctors placed the material.
Sat/ lah
_/\_


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[Rich]

Faith that just sitting contains the whole universe and joyful bliss is only obscured by our own minds

Sat/lah


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[Andrea]

Hi, I just wanted to add a note to this thread to say I'm so glad that Treeleaf is so accommodating to people with chronic illness and disability. That's been the main reason I haven't been able to join a sangha despite practicing for so long, and I've realised a lot of Buddhist spaces are quite excluding to disabled people (because of 'tradition?') It's so nice to feel that I'll be able to fully participate here despite my chronic illness and disability. Thank you, Jundo and everyone at Treeleaf.

Gassho,
Andrea

SatToday

[Meian]

Hi, I just wanted to add a note to this thread to say I'm so glad that Treeleaf is so accommodating to people with chronic illness and disability. That's been the main reason I haven't been able to join a sangha despite practicing for so long, and I've realised a lot of Buddhist spaces are quite excluding to disabled people (because of 'tradition?') It's so nice to feel that I'll be able to fully participate here despite my chronic illness and disability. Thank you, Jundo and everyone at Treeleaf.

Gassho,
Andrea

SatToday

Welcome, Andrea, and yes! I have had similar experiences in this area.

If you ever have any questions, or need assistance with anything, please feel free to reach out. We are happy to help!

Gassho2, meian stlh

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[Tai Shi]

I have read that 59% of Ankylosing Spondylitis patients have mental illness. My first real diagnosis was psychotically depressed, and I was treated improperly with massive doses or Thorazine; when looking back I had I believe unipolar bipolar disorder. for many years misdiagnosed AS as besides, finally diagnosed at age 41 with AS and bipolar at age 60, always passed on with massive doses of antipsychotics which did not work for my physical illness, finally given Lithium and I responded, and after massive doses of nonsteroidal pain relivers, all of which destroyed my kidneys, finally in 2001 beginning proper treatment for my serious arthritis of my spine with the biological Enbrel, and finding a wonderful psychiatric hospital in 2010 diagnosed at an age when I am and was getting old, and realization of long growing AVM last year, finally freeing my thinking. I sought both pain relief and enlightenment to Find Shikantaza, and a teacher in Jundo. I am grateful for everything. Please Jundo, let this brief excursion into a history stand or strike it down or move it, but I request it is only understanding my journey to Ubasoku.
Gassho
sat/lah
calm poetry

[Tai Shi]

Ankylosing Spondylitis continues as it has all my life, exercise almost daily good for both Illnesses. Ss I come off muscle relaxers, saliva glands working better, more concentration, better hand, eye, better hearing. Now have come down significantly, anxiety less, happiness returning. Long term illness improved, followed doctors advice. I am better.
Gassho
sat/lah

[Tokan]

Hi all

I just felt like acknowledging this thread. I have practised in a place many years ago that required square pegs to fit in round holes. Here at Treeleaf I feel the pegs and holes are both round and square at the same time and can either fit or not fit - everyone's reality just being as it is. I have OCD, which took about 25 years to really understand, previously believing that it was a problem with my beliefs, attitude, and the three poisons! Sometimes, those concrete beliefs or ideals, the dedication to perfection/ritual that can be driven by some neurodivergent conditions, can hamper zen practice, but here I believe you are able to roll with it, just do what you can, and sit, and know that it is enough for the moment.

Tai Shi - your perseverance and lightness of heart is always inspiring

Gassho to all and thanks for be sharing of yourselves, Tokan

satlah

[Meian]

I just felt like acknowledging this thread. I have practised in a place many years ago that required square pegs to fit in round holes. Here at Treeleaf I feel the pegs and holes are both round and square at the same time and can either fit or not fit - everyone's reality just being as it is. I have OCD, which took about 25 years to really understand, previously believing that it was a problem with my beliefs, attitude, and the three poisons! Sometimes, those concrete beliefs or ideals, the dedication to perfection/ritual that can be driven by some neurodivergent conditions, can hamper zen practice, but here I believe you are able to roll with it, just do what you can, and sit, and know that it is enough for the moment.

Tai Shi - your perseverance and lightness of heart is always inspiring

Gassho to all and thanks for be sharing of yourselves

What a beautiful message of caring that shines an inclusive and loving light on our beautiful sangha.

Tai Shi and all sentient beings with our uniqueness and experiences on The Way of wabi-sabi and equanimity of all.

gassho,
stlh

[Tai Shi]

My friends and family marvel at my poetry, my ignorance of heart.
I do not deserve this marvelous toy sung when eighteen years old
Seventy-one years less than a fortnight of that body, marvelous
Toy, I have no doctor who realizes nothing of my skeleton, defied

Hours before, doctor away from me, slanting was chastised for critical
Patient told He could not distinguish good from bad, he had argued
No longer to treat me, my pain growing, said no place alleviating
Marvelous sigh to possible shatter point. Perhaps I relive death

If tumor, seek doctors who will care for me skeleton on system rely on
Pain as system resets itself. I have learned doctors can decline to treat
Patients, when openly criticized, can choose to leave patient
No warning, leave body, toy of growth within child become old

Die at seventy-one with a patient seeking remedy and relief, nothing
May deny calm poetry, five minutes, perhaps when that patient
Cannot drive, must be home with pneumonia, in his own home,
Nothing leaning can treat any patient to determine reputation?

This Rheumatologist has told me he will not treat me because
I was openly critical of his remarks, he believes me not that,
I am losing sight, that I have Uveitis in right eye, that I cannot
See as well, is it coincidence or have doctors decided no treatment?

Gassho
sat/ lah

[Jishin]

My friends and family marvel at my poetry, my ignorance of heart.
I do not deserve this marvelous toy sung when eighteen years old
Seventy-one years less than a fortnight of that body, marvelous
Toy, I have no doctor who realizes nothing of my skeleton, defied

Hours before, doctor away from me, slanting was chastised for critical
Patient told He could not distinguish good from bad, he had argued
No longer to treat me, my pain growing, said no place alleviating
Marvelous sigh to possible shatter point. Perhaps I relive death

If tumor, seek doctors who will care for me skeleton on system rely on
Pain as system resets itself. I have learned doctors can decline to treat
Patients, when openly criticized, can choose to leave patient
No warning, leave body, toy of growth within child become old

Die at seventy-one with a patient seeking remedy and relief, nothing
May deny calm poetry, five minutes, perhaps when that patient
Cannot drive, must be home with pneumonia, in his own home,
Nothing leaning can treat any patient to determine reputation?

This Rheumatologist has told me he will not treat me because
I was openly critical of his remarks, he believes me not that,
I am losing sight, that I have Uveitis in right eye, that I cannot
See as well, is it coincidence or have doctors decided no treatment?

Gassho
sat/ lah

I am sorry you are suffering.

A couple of points:

A doctor does not represent doctors as a whole.

A doctor simply renders opinions. Everybody has one.

Gassho, Jishin, ST, LAH

[Jundo]

I just added the following to our top message. I don't think it a secret that Meian will be Ordained as a priest soon at Treeleaf. So, I will note that in the message as soon as that happens!

~~~~~~~~~~~~

SANGHA CONTACT POINT

Here is a special message from Meian, our long time member who practices with several disabilities and is an excellent person to contact on these issues [MESSAGE LINK]:

Hello all, I want to welcome all new members to Treeleaf, and I extend a particular welcome to any new members living with chronic illness of body and mind. At Treeleaf, we have plenty of opportunities to sit and practice in various ways to accommodate chronic illnesses, and you are welcome to join us for any of them! I would also like to invite new members with chronic illness to feel free to message me any time, if anyone would like to discuss practicing with chronic illness or if you just want a listening ear. I've been living with chronic illness (multiple) for a number of years now and, while I don't have answers to give, I am happy to share experiences with you, or just listen. As such, if you would like to sit together some time, please do message me and I'll do my best to arrange it.

Gassho, Meian

Gassho, J

stlah