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Thread: SPLIT THREAD: Of Priests and Priest Training at Treeleaf

  1. #1

    SPLIT THREAD: Of Priests and Priest Training at Treeleaf

    Hi,

    A new member (who is a paramedic) stated:

    I would like to take my practice to the next step and take the precepts. However, I keep thinking about becoming a monk/priest. But, in the lineage I am with it discourages those who are married and requires a full-time monastic commitment. I feel that formalising my practice is the best way to spread it to all.

    At the moment, I do not feel like I can give him my work as it is as much a part of me and I am of it. So, I am curious to hear from anyone who has/is training via Treeleaf as I would like to learn more about this Sangha and whether this is the right place for me to train when the time comes.
    Seido commented:

    Quote Originally Posted by Seido View Post
    I would encourage you to think about why you want to be a monk/priest. You say it is through monastic training you feel it is the best way to spread your practice to all, but I would counter and say that a householder can have more opportunity to live as a Bodhisattva, and make many tangible differences in this world. Just something to sit with.
    In our Sangha, we do not make such a hard and fast distinction between Priest and householder (lay) folks. You can read more about why and how in this obituary I wrote for my Teacher, Nishijima Roshi ...

    Eight Ways GUDO WAFU NISHIJIMA Will Help Change ZEN BUDDHISM
    http://sweepingzen.com/eight-ways-gu...-zen-buddhism/

    But that being said, I believe the difference is that the priest should embody an extra degree of caring for the nurturing of others in the Community (Sangha), devotion, ethical behavior, wisdom and compassion as Soto Zen Buddhist clergy dedicated to saving all sentient beings, good spiritual friends and teachers of the Sangha, knowledgable in our history and Traditions (both our Traditions as traditionally practiced and our Traditions as re-expressed and evolving for new times and settings). That extra degree of training in our history, Traditions and Practices, and the work to pass that on to others and the next generation, is perhaps what requires an extra degree of training and commitment from other householders. ("Priest" is a not such a good word, by the way, imposed by Christian missionaries in describing Asian Buddhists in the 19th century. I much prefer "Soryo", a Chinese-Japanese term which means "Sangha Companion").

    However, within that context, our Sangha (and Nishijima Roshi's Lineage) is based on figuratively “knocking down monastery walls”, to find that Buddha’s Truths may be practiced any place, without divisions of “inside” walls or “outside”. For some of us, the family kitchen, children’s nursery, office or factory where we work diligently and hard, the hospital bed, volunteer activity or town hall are all our “monastery” and place of training. All of life is our temple.

    That said, Ordination in our Sangha, or becoming any kind of authorized teacher, takes waiting for several years, and I must first really know the person well. If I know someone well for several years, they feel at home in our community, and I feel at home with them, then after a few years we would consider to start talking about Ordination or other Teaching. Then, Ordination etc. is itself just the first step on many years of training that may or may not result in anything. Being Ordained does not make one a full priest, only a Novice in Training, and that Training will take many years without any guaranty or promise that the person will eventually become a Priest. I would not turn loose a Teacher in any way unless I had know them for long and worked with them for years. If you are still here in our community after a few years, we can begin to talk about it.

    In the meantime, please keep sitting and living gently. (Also, in your work as a paramedic, you are truly rescuing Sentient Beings each day, true Bodhisattva Work, in a way that no ordinary priest ever could).

    Gassho, Jundo

    SATTODAY (at the airport) LAH
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  2. #2
    Thank you Jundo,
    I appreciate the clarity to my comment. I believe my wording was incorrect, and I intended to focus on the benefits (and challenges) to being a practitioner outside of physical monastery walls. I don't think there are many practitioners or priests in this Sangha who reside in a monastery, and I was loose on my use of the word "householder" to be on par with the notion of all of life is our temple.

    I think there are two reasons to want to be a priest, you want something for yourself, or you want "nothing" for yourself. The deep compassion required to live in service as a priest, or as a priest in training, requires a grave understanding of emptiness. I hope I did not imply it is of some lesser value with my comments.

    Gassho
    Seido
    SatToday
    The strength and beneficence of the soft and yielding.
    Water achieves clarity through stillness.

  3. #3
    Thank you, both for your insight.

    I look forward to being a part of and serving this community.

    Simon.
    Ask not what the Sangha can do for you, but what you can do for your Sangha.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Seido View Post

    I think there are two reasons to want to be a priest, you want something for yourself, or you want "nothing" for yourself. The deep compassion required to live in service as a priest, or as a priest in training, requires a grave understanding of emptiness. I hope I did not imply it is of some lesser value with my comments.

    Gassho
    Seido
    SatToday
    Point well taken, and thank you Seido. Very wise.

    I might add that one can also get great benefit for oneself right in the fact that one's core reason and calling should be the benefit others providing what they lack ... even as there is nothing lacking, so no need for benefit ... all while knowing that self and others are "not two", and anyway, what "self" and what "others"?

    In Zen, we work all sides of the sideless street. (Sorry to sound Koany for a moment, but this is Zen after all).

    Gassho, J

    SatToday (at 2am with Jetlag) LAH
    Last edited by Jundo; 08-31-2017 at 04:59 PM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Seido View Post
    I think there are two reasons to want to be a priest, you want something for yourself, or you want "nothing" for yourself. The deep compassion required to live in service as a priest, or as a priest in training, requires a grave understanding of emptiness.
    I don't feel like being an Unsui as a position for personal gain. If I wanted to get rich, I would have stayed in my old job. I do feel a sense of servitude towards the fellow man (and woman), which is why I became a Paramedic. In a way, I believe (to paraphrase JFK) "Ask not what your Sangha can do for you, but what you can do for your Sangha". I even turned down a promotion as it would have been a cosy desk job that was not patient facing.

    I just feel drawn to the image I have of what a monk/priest represents. Someone who takes their practice seriously, to gain a deep and genuine understanding. Someone who can be trusted and turned to for guidance.

    I think the time that made me realise Zen is the way for me was when I was talking to a patient who was going through a rough part of their life. They asked for my opinion on what they should do, I gave them my view, which is influenced by my understanding of Zen. That changed their perception of their situation and mine. Since then, I started taking my practice seriously, and things began to make more sense.

    Gassho,
    Simon
    Sat Today.
    Ask not what the Sangha can do for you, but what you can do for your Sangha.

  6. #6
    Hi Simon

    For me there is a certain image of a monk/priest as having a deeper, richer, nobler, more virtuous "faith" (for lack of a better word). It is a somewhat romantic notion built up over the years of reading and likely influenced by media. I am not saying this is exactly the same for you....

    But I will say that being here in this Sangha with the members here and Jundo's fine guidance has taught me that I can do a lot of good in my daily life. All of life is my temple and i needn't add anything more. If being a priest/monk truly calls you then go but being a lay practitioner is also good. The importance is to live well. Do good. Don't do bad and do good things for the benefit of all. That is possible as priest or laity.

    My humble thoughts which I hope don't sound too preachy.

    Gassho
    Warren
    Sat today and LAH

  7. #7
    Mp
    Guest
    Hello Simon,

    I will write more to you about this, but I also remember some of us Unsui did a Q&A videos with some questions our lovely Sangha member's had for us ... maybe it will be helpful. =)

    Video Q&A: http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showt...Novice-Priests

    Gassho
    Shingen

    SatToday/LAH

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Shingen View Post
    Hello Simon,

    I will write more to you about this, but I also remember some of us Unsui did a Q&A videos with some questions our lovely Sangha member's had for us ... maybe it will be helpful. =)

    Video Q&A: http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showt...Novice-Priests

    Gassho
    Shingen

    SatToday/LAH
    Reminds me that we might add some more for the other novice Priests who have come since.

    Gassho, J

    SatTodayLAH
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  9. #9
    Mp
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    Reminds me that we might add some more for the other novice Priests who have come since.

    Gassho, J

    SatTodayLAH
    I agree! =)

    Gassho
    Shingen

    SatToday/LAH

  10. #10
    Thanks for bringing attention to the link. It was good to learn about all of you (maybe again, can not remember ). You all are amazing folk!

    Gassho
    Doshin
    St/lah
    Last edited by Doshin; 09-01-2017 at 10:25 PM.

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