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Thread: Research on a "Differently Enabled Ancestors List" - Volunteers

  1. #1

    Research on a "Differently Enabled Ancestors List" - Volunteers

    Dear All,

    In various Zen Ceremonies, we recite a list of the "Zen Ancestors" (sometimes called "Zen Patriarchs"), stretching from the Buddha through Bodhidharma, Dogen, to modern times. For various cultural reasons, the list is exclusively a boy's club.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_lineage_charts

    In recent years, to recognize the roll of great Women in Buddhism and Zen, a "Women Ancestors Lineage" has been created (we will recite and honor this during our upcoming San Francisco Retreat) ...

    https://www.lionsroar.com/chanting-n...nce-forgotten/

    I have now proposed to the Soto Zen Buddhist Association (SZBA, a group of many Soto Zen Teachers primarily in North America) a "Differently Enabled Ancestors List" of figures from the Buddhist past who practiced and taught from various disabilities, a list similar to the Women's Ancestor List. I am thinking that such a Differently Abled Lineage might become the centerpiece of a special Ceremony or periodic recitation to accompany the core Lineage or Female Lineage.

    Unfortunately, in Traditional Buddhism (and even today), people with physical disabilities were sometimes prevented from Ordination for many cultural reasons, including a seeming inability to participate in the great physical demands of monastic life. For example, Ajahn Brahmavamso says this on Vinaya standards in many traditional Buddhist societies ...

    There are others still who should not be ordained, although if they are ordained by mistake their ordination is valid. These include: one with infectious diseases, a slave, one escaped from jail, one known to be wanted by the police, one with unpaid debts, one in the 'King's Service' (e.g. a soldier), one maimed, deformed, disabled or very old (meaning to the extent that it is impractical to perform the duties of monastic life).

    http://www.budsas.org/ebud/ebsut020.htm
    I believe that the main point was simply that disability would interfere with monastic life, study and its many physical requirements.

    Our Sangha particularly is looking at Training of those who, because of physical restrictions, cannot engage in a standard course of training ... cannot bow or climb steps or move fast for a Ceremony ... but who are excellent individuals with much to teach in the aid of other Sentient Beings, and who will make excellent Priests with reasonable accommodations to what they can do. I think that the "Differently Enabled Ancestors List" is a worthy project for those who were shut out of, or faced impossible obstacles, to Buddhist Training in the past.

    Some folks from the SZBA have suggested that we take the lead on a first draft of such a list. If anyone is interested, please let me know. Perhaps the criteria would be figures, both legendary and historical, who are known to have had physical disabilities which did not prevent their engagement in Buddhist Practice or Zen Training, and who had much to offer. Like the Women's Lineage, it does not have to be an actual chain of Teacher-to-Student.

    Gassho, Jundo

    SatTodayLAH
    Last edited by Jundo; 08-09-2017 at 03:23 AM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  2. #2
    This is a beautiful idea, Jundo. We once had a very heated discussion on a UK Buddhist group on Facebook concerning the ordination of disabled people. Theravadins were very opposed to it, citing the vinaya. They claimed that disability and monasticism were incompatible whereas Mahayana Buddhists were far more open to wheelchair users being pushed by their fellow monastics on an alms round.

    Do you think there are sufficient numbers of differently able ancestors to make a workable list? It is certainly worth looking into.

    Gasshp
    Kokuu
    -sattoday-
    ------------------------------------
    Feel free to message me if you wish to talk about issues around practicing with physical limitations. This is something I have been sitting with for a fair while and am happy to help with suggestions or just offer a listening ear.

  3. #3
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    I also think this is a beautiful impulse. The first buddhist monastics I ever met had physical challenges (stroke, rheumatoid arthritis) and were really inspiring people; taught me a lot about getting on with it and practicing with suffering. Jundo's proposal left me wondering: wouldn't those lists of male and female ancestors already include the differently abled?

    Faith-Moon
    st

  4. #4
    I too think this is a beautiful idea ... =)

    Gassho
    Shingen

    SatToday/LAH
    RINDO SHINGEN
    倫道 真現

  5. #5
    Yes, beautiful Jundo. I am excited to see what becomes of this.

    Gassho,
    Joyo
    sat today/lah

  6. #6
    Jundo,

    This is an excellent idea--a true embrace of suffering and compassion. I'm not sure what help I could be, but I'm willing to offer it nonetheless.

    Gassho,

    Michael

    Sat today LAH

  7. #7
    Jundo's proposal left me wondering: wouldn't those lists of male and female ancestors already include the differently abled?

    Faith-Moon
    st
    Hi Faith

    I would say that many would be also in the existing lists, although their particular age and health issues are not particularly highlighted, and others would be in various cherished stories and Sutras but not part of the existing Lineages (as in the figures in the Womens List).

    Gassho Jundo (on train heading to SF Retreat)
    SatTodayLAH
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  8. #8
    I support this very much. My initial thoughts were that it might inspire someone who had a disability to follow this path.

    Gassho, Kyotai
    ST LAH
    I am a student at Treeleaf. Please take what I say with a grain of salt. Gassho

  9. #9
    Treeleaf Unsui Shugen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyotai View Post
    I support this very much. My initial thoughts were that it might inspire someone who had a disability to follow this path.

    Gassho, Kyotai
    ST LAH
    I agree!

    Gassho,

    Shugen

    Sattoday/LAH


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    As a priest in training, please take everything I say with a pinch of salt

    Meido Shugen
    明道 修眼

  10. #10
    Great idea.

    Gassho,
    G.
    ST.

  11. #11
    Maybe this would be a project for a group?
    Like a wiki?
    More people could contribute more easily to a possible list.
    And there might be some discussion - let's say I suggested Bodhidharma and Huike in "practitioners with amputation", others might say those are metaphors.

    Maybe create a sticky and bump it from time to time?
    And update the first post, like it is done with the Ango buddy list.
    So if a new suggestion makes it, it is edited into the list on page 1.

    And another question - are there Sangha members who don't like this idea?
    I think I remember some athlete saying "I'd rather be last at the Olympic games than first at the Paralympics".

    Gassho,
    Jika
    sattoday, LAH
    治 Ji
    花 Ka

  12. #12
    I think it's a wonderful idea!

    Gassho
    Lucy
    ST
    鋭 Ei - Sharp
    集 Shuu - Focus

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyotai View Post
    I support this very much. My initial thoughts were that it might inspire someone who had a disability to follow this path.

    Gassho, Kyotai
    ST LAH
    Yes I agree and I really hope it does! This is a wonderful idea. I had no idea that there were difficulties for differently abled people and while I understand ( sort of ) the argument regarding the rigours of monastic life, it's not really a valid one in this day and age surely? It would be great if this initiative could trigger a shift in a more compassionate and inclusive direction. If there's anything I can contribute, I will.
    Gassho
    Frankie

    Satwithyoualltoday/Lah

  14. #14
    Member Seishin's Avatar
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    Fully support this idea, especially for our modern society. My historical and theological knowledge is limited and I could in no way offer suggestions of who should be added to such a list and would humbly leave that to others but believe no one should be restricted from practice or not recognized for their Bodhisattva actions due to disability.

    STMIZ / lah


    Seishin

    Sei - Meticulous
    Shin - Heart



    Sat Today / lah

  15. #15
    I can see this from various points of view. When I read the criteria for Plum Village re ordination/monastic training I was a bit shocked as it seemed to exclude many potential monastics. The age restriction particularly baffled me.
    https://plumvillage.org/about/becoming-a-monastic/ - but on the other hand I can understand that the community relies on members being able to contribute on every level - including labour intensive physical work.
    With the advent of internet groups and many other pathways to be of service to others it does feel very different in our current times and disability need not be a bar.
    It would be really interesting to know how this worked in the past - I can imagine that monastics who became ill or disabled some time after their training would be supported but maybe doubtful that they could have chosen the path of ordination if they were already ill or disabled?

    Gassho

    Willow/Jinyo

    ST

  16. #16
    Member Seishin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by willow View Post
    I can see this from various points of view. When I read the criteria for Plum Village re ordination/monastic training I was a bit shocked as it seemed to exclude many potential monastics. The age restriction particularly baffled me.
    https://plumvillage.org/about/becoming-a-monastic/ - but on the other hand I can understand that the community relies on members being able to contribute on every level - including labour intensive physical work.
    With the advent of internet groups and many other pathways to be of service to others it does feel very different in our current times and disability need not be a bar.
    It would be really interesting to know how this worked in the past - I can imagine that monastics who became ill or disabled some time after their training would be supported but maybe doubtful that they could have chosen the path of ordination if they were already ill or disabled?

    Gassho

    Willow/Jinyo

    ST
    Willow

    The age restriction baffles me as well. Since retiring at 55 and moving to France and buying a 1.5 acre plot I'm working harder now physically at 61 than at any other time of my life. I'm not looking for a monastic life but I'm sure and am grateful that I could contribute equally with someone half my age when it comes to manual labour. In MHO it is a state of mind and you can do whatever you put your focus into and as such you should not be discriminated against in that degree. Like I say just MHO but all year round I get daily samu and to be honest I love it and would be bored witless with a more sedentary life.

    No fool like and old fool. Sat today.


    Seishin

    Sei - Meticulous
    Shin - Heart



    Sat Today / lah

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by willow View Post
    I can see this from various points of view. When I read the criteria for Plum Village re ordination/monastic training I was a bit shocked as it seemed to exclude many potential monastics. The age restriction particularly baffled me.
    https://plumvillage.org/about/becoming-a-monastic/ - but on the other hand I can understand that the community relies on members being able to contribute on every level - including labour intensive physical work.
    With the advent of internet groups and many other pathways to be of service to others it does feel very different in our current times and disability need not be a bar.
    It would be really interesting to know how this worked in the past - I can imagine that monastics who became ill or disabled some time after their training would be supported but maybe doubtful that they could have chosen the path of ordination if they were already ill or disabled?

    Gassho

    Willow/Jinyo

    ST
    I remember hearing about a story (probably from the sutras) where there is a monk in a monastery suffering terribly from something like dysentry and in a really bad state, and all the other monks are pretty much ignoring him and going about their business. The Buddha reprimands them and tells them to clean him up and look after him. I do wonder whether there is a natural aversion to illness and suffering that the Buddha was pointing out and making it clear that compassion is the appropriate response. Personally it rather baffles me that with such a huge emphasis on compassion in Buddhism people who are ill or disabled are still excluded and were ever excluded. I am very grateful that Treeleaf is such an inclusive place.

    Gassho
    Lucy
    ST
    鋭 Ei - Sharp
    集 Shuu - Focus

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucy View Post
    I remember hearing about a story (probably from the sutras) where there is a monk in a monastery suffering terribly from something like dysentry and in a really bad state, and all the other monks are pretty much ignoring him and going about their business. The Buddha reprimands them and tells them to clean him up and look after him. I do wonder whether there is a natural aversion to illness and suffering that the Buddha was pointing out and making it clear that compassion is the appropriate response. Personally it rather baffles me that with such a huge emphasis on compassion in Buddhism people who are ill or disabled are still excluded and were ever excluded. I am very grateful that Treeleaf is such an inclusive place.

    Gassho
    Lucy
    ST
    Thank you Lucy.

    Kucchivikara-vatthu: The Monk with Dysentery

    Now at that time a certain monk was sick with dysentery. He lay fouled in his own urine & excrement. Then the Blessed One, on an inspection tour of the lodgings with Ven. Ananda as his attendant, went to that monk's dwelling and, on arrival, saw the monk lying fouled in his own urine & excrement. On seeing him, he went to the monk and said, "What is your sickness, monk?"

    "I have dysentery, O Blessed One."

    "But do you have an attendant?"

    "No, O Blessed One."

    "Then why don't the monks attend to you?"

    "I don't do anything for the monks, lord, which is why they don't attend to me."

    Then the Blessed One addressed Ven. Ananda: "Go fetch some water, Ananda. We will wash this monk."

    "As you say, lord," Ven. Ananda replied, and he fetched some water. The Blessed One sprinkled water on the monk, and Ven. Ananda washed him off. Then — with the Blessed One taking the monk by the head, and Ven. Ananda taking him by the feet — they lifted him up and placed him on a bed.

    ...

    Then the Blessed One, from this cause, because of this event, had the monks assembled ... "Monks, you have no mother, you have no father, who might tend to you. If you don't tend to one another, who then will tend to you? Whoever would tend to me, should tend to the sick. ... A nurse endowed with five qualities is fit to tend to the sick: He is competent at mixing medicine; he knows what is amenable or unamenable to the patient's cure, taking away things that are unamenable and bringing things that are amenable; he is motivated by thoughts of good will, not by material gain; he does not get disgusted at cleaning up excrement, urine, saliva, or vomit; and he is competent at instructing, urging, rousing, & encouraging the sick person at the proper occasions with a talk on Dhamma. A nurse endowed with these five qualities is fit to tend to the sick.
    http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipit...1-08.than.html
    Gassho, J

    SatTodayLAH
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  19. #19
    This is great, Jundo! As a disabled person myself, I find it amazing all the barriers people like me face, and here is one I would never have thought of. I mean, what's more inclusive than Zen? But I guess that door closes at the monastery, hmm. Anyway, I don't have enough knowledge to contribute to this list, but I would love to see the results of it and learn more about those teachers.
    AL (Jigen) in:
    Faith/Trust
    Courage/Love
    Awareness/Action!

  20. #20
    Reading and trying to learn about the ancient past and it's stories, I came across these two.
    I don't know if they fit in here, but thought about this thread while reading.

    Lakuntaka Bhaddiya, being growth-restricted (dwarfism), who was praised by the Buddha for his beautiful voice and power

    from: https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/lakuntaka-bhaddiya
    In the assembly of monks the Buddha ranked him as foremost among sweet voiced monks (A.i.25) (manjussaranam). Several stories connected with Bhaddiya are recorded in the books. Because of his shortness and his youthful appearance he was sometimes mistaken for a novice (DhA.iii.387). Elsewhere (S.ii.279; cp. Ud.vii.5) it is said that, because he was ugly and hunch backed, he was despised by his companions, and the Buddha had to proclaim to them his greatness and hold him up as an example of a man who, though small, was of great power.
    and Khujjuttara with a hunchback. She was praised for her great learning.

    from: https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/khujjuttara
    Once, in the past, she was a serving woman of the king of Benares, and one day, having seen a Pacceka Buddha who was slightly hunch backed, she threw a blanket over her shoulder, and bending down to look like a hunchback, she imitated the Buddhas manner of walking. Therefore, in this present birth she herself was hunchbacked.
    from https://www.wisdomlib.org/buddhism/b...d/doc3682.html :
    One day, Khujjuttara went to the garden to buy flowers for the queen, as she usually did, and while there, she heard the Buddha teaching the Dharma, and understanding it so well she became a Stream-Winner. On returning to the harem, she told the queen about the Dharma and delighted by what she heard, the queen thereafter sent her regularly to hear the Buddha so she could repeat what she heard. In this manner, Khujjuttara became an expert in Dharma, in fact, the Buddha called her the most deeply learned of all his female lay disciples. All the discourses in the Itivuttaka, one of the most important books in the Tipitaka, were preserved by Khujjuttara and taught by her to the monks.
    Gassho,
    Kotei sat/lah today.
    Last edited by Kotei; 09-15-2017 at 07:33 PM.
    古庭 KoTei / Ralf

  21. #21
    As the father of a disabled child, I'm glad to see this being addressed. Thank you.

    Theo
    ST

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Kotei View Post
    Reading and trying to learn about the ancient past and it's stories, I came across these two.
    I don't know if they fit in here, but thought about this thread while reading.

    Lakuntaka Bhaddiya, being growth-restricted (dwarfism), who was praised by the Buddha for his beautiful voice and power

    from: https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/lakuntaka-bhaddiya


    and Khujjuttara with a hunchback. She was praised for her great learning.

    from: https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/khujjuttara

    from https://www.wisdomlib.org/buddhism/b...d/doc3682.html :


    Gassho,
    Kotei sat/lah today.

    Thank you. I believe that this is precisely the kind of story that deserves recognition.

    Gassho, Jundo

    SatTodayLAH
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  23. #23
    Dear All,

    I have found what must be one of the most detailed and comprehensive lists of references to various physically challenged individuals in Buddhist literature.

    https://www.independentliving.org/miles2014a

    PDF Version

    https://www.independentliving.org/fi...iles201311.pdf

    I am wondering if any of our members with a historical bent would like to go through this document closely, and perhaps cut and paste for this thread (or make a WORD file) the descriptions of various possible candidates for inclusion on the Differently Enabled Ancestor's list? Many of the stories are not happy, not all positive. We would be looking both for folks who were unfairly discriminated against with a sad outcome, as well as those who succeeded in overcoming. We would be looking for the names of people, both historical and mythical, lay or ordained does not matter, who might be included as inspirations. They do not need to be "Zen" figures, but can be from other flavors of Buddhism. For example, it says on page 69 ...

    MILLS, Douglas E. (1983) "gunko monogatari". In: Kodansha Encyclopedia of Japan. 9
    volumes. Tokyo: Kodansha.
    The development of these stories of conflict and war, action and heroism, during the
    Kamakura and Muromachi periods, and in particular the Heike monogatari, provided a
    suitable poetic medium to be chanted by itinerant blind 'lute priests' (biwa hoshi) for "the
    education and religious edification of the public at large". According to Mills, the performers
    "made the tale not only one of stirring entertainment but also a deeply moving vehicle for
    the Buddhist doctrine that all human activity is ephemeral and illusory."
    We might include these "Biwa Hoshi" as a group on the list. Or on page 74, "Arya Chudapanthaka" ...

    ..., the ancient story is told of Arya Chudapanthaka .... As a baby he was placed in the care of a 'lazy girl', who made little effort to set him on the best road. So when Chudapanthaka tried to learn to read, by the time he had memorised half a word, the other half was beyond his grasp; and if he made efforts with that half, the first part would disappear from his memory. Several teachers failed to make any progress with this slow-learning or perhaps dyslexic lad. His older brother, Mahapanthaka, had become a monk and a scholar, and finally head of a monastery. He tried to do something for his weak-minded kid brother, but finally gave up: "you are the dullest of the dull - why did I ever ordain you?" he asked. Chudapanthaka was humiliated, and wept. Then the Buddha took his education in hand, finding first some simple tasks that Chudapanthaka could do, e.g. polishing the other monks' shoes. Next the Teacher devised 'Community-Based Rehabilitation', enlisting all those monks to repeat the same phrase that Chudapanthaka needed to memorise. Then our slow-learning hero learnt how to sweep out the temple, while meditating on the removal of dirt. After some time, it dawned on him that he should sweep out the dirt from his own heart and life, and thus he reached illumination. [The sequel was that Panthaka - as the Buddha called him - was sent to teach the nuns. Understandably, these worthy women believed they were being humiliated by having a feeble-minded sweeper sent to teach them. Some of them planned a practical joke to ridicule the new teacher, and invited a huge crowd. Yet by an exercise of faith, Panthaka turned their trick to his own advantage, then gave a detailed exposition of what he himself had learnt. Several thousand people responded positively to this message, according to the storyteller.]
    We might include Arya Chudapanthaka on the list.

    We need someone to go through, cut and paste the story highlights, with page numbers like that. Sometimes folks like the "biwa boshi" are mentioned various places, so that will need to be organized so all the information is together.

    Please post here or PM me if you are interested. Yes, this could easily count as someone's "LAH" for quite awhile!

    Gassho, Jundo

    SatTodayLAH
    Last edited by Jundo; 09-17-2017 at 03:49 AM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  24. #24
    Hi,

    Not getting any volunteers here, so want to bump this ... see if I can twist anyone's arm. If not, I will go ahead myself. Anyone interested (especially among our longer time members)?

    It would be good and helpful to the Sangha.

    Gassho, Jundo

    SatTodayLAH
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  25. #25
    Hi Jundo

    I have too much going on to take this on wholesale but would definitely like to contribute to the research.

    In my mind, as well as producing the list, we should elsewhere have a short paragraph about each of the Buddha ancestors and the nature of their practice and disability, as well as when they were born and died (if known).

    Gassho
    Kokuu
    -sattoday/lah-
    ------------------------------------
    Feel free to message me if you wish to talk about issues around practicing with physical limitations. This is something I have been sitting with for a fair while and am happy to help with suggestions or just offer a listening ear.

  26. #26
    Hi Kokuu,

    Thank you. I know how busy you are. I am hoping that one of our old time members with a little time on their hands will take it on, going through the PDF I posted, and drawing up a list of names with a short biography. I think everything is in that file, almost just to cut and paste.

    Gassho, Jundo

    SatTodayLAH
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    Hi Kokuu,

    Thank you. I know how busy you are. I am hoping that one of our old time members with a little time on their hands will take it on, going through the PDF I posted, and drawing up a list of names with a short biography. I think everything is in that file, almost just to cut and paste.

    Gassho, Jundo

    SatTodayLAH
    I'll give it a go. Not really an old time member, but I do have the brain of an old-timer

    Gassho, Zenmei (sat/lah)

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Zenmei View Post
    I'll give it a go. Not really an old time member, but I do have the brain of an old-timer

    Gassho, Zenmei (sat/lah)
    That's lovely, Zenmai. And maybe you can get some folks to help you, divide up the work somehow.

    I described the 168 page report I found, and what I think needs to be done, here:

    http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showt...l=1#post208102

    That seems to be the most comprehensive report existing on the topic, with many names and descriptions of Buddhist Ancestors mentioned. See if it sounds like a plan.

    Much Merit in this for you, Many bows.

    Gassho, Jundo

    SatTodayLAH
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  29. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    That seems to be the most comprehensive report existing on the topic, with many names and descriptions of Buddhist Ancestors mentioned. See if it sounds like a plan.

    Much Merit in this for you, Many bows.
    Sounds like a plan. If I need to, I'll reach out for help.

    I'll just go ahead and dedicate that merit to all those who are practicing with these "obstacles". May they be serene through all their ills.

    Gassho, Zenmei (sat/lah)

  30. #30
    Hi Jundo and Zenmei

    When Jundo originally posted this I was tempted to volunteer but was concerned about over-committing myself as I am just about to start my third year which involves a dissertation and two management placements. I would like to contribute and assist as long as I am able to be flexible and realistic with my time.

    Zenmei - please feel free to contact me.

    Gassho
    Karen
    Sat today

  31. #31
    Thank you Zenmei and Karen for stepping up and taking on this project, much appreciation. =)

    Gassho
    Shingen

    SatToday/LAH
    RINDO SHINGEN
    倫道 真現

  32. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by MacK View Post
    Hi Jundo and Zenmei

    When Jundo originally posted this I was tempted to volunteer but was concerned about over-committing myself as I am just about to start my third year which involves a dissertation and two management placements. I would like to contribute and assist as long as I am able to be flexible and realistic with my time.

    Zenmei - please feel free to contact me.

    Gassho
    Karen
    Sat today
    Same here, so we'll just try it and see how it goes. I'll have some free time this weekend to look it over. I'll message you and we'll figure it out.

    Thanks for your help!

    Gassho, zenmei (sat/lah)

  33. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Zenmei View Post
    Same here, so we'll just try it and see how it goes. I'll have some free time this weekend to look it over. I'll message you and we'll figure it out.

    Thanks for your help!

    Gassho, zenmei (sat/lah)
    Zenmei,

    If it will be helpful I can convert the PDF to a word document. Might help the editing process.

    Let me know and I can post a link for it.

    Gassho,

    Shoka
    sattoday
    香道 笑花
    Kodo Shoka

    Please don't take anything I say as anything more than just a normal person's thoughts on the topic. I'm just stumbling through life trying to be helpful, but really don't know much.

  34. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Shoka View Post
    Zenmei,

    If it will be helpful I can convert the PDF to a word document. Might help the editing process.

    Let me know and I can post a link for it.

    Gassho,

    Shoka
    sattoday
    Thank you, that's very kind, but I've already extracted the entries as text, so I think we're good to go there.

    Gassho, Zenmei (sat/lah)

  35. #35
    I was also very tempted to step up when I read this but was worried about being such a newbie to Zen, and then committing to Ango, sewing a rakusu etc. But now that we are a couple of weeks into Ango, I feel that I could comfortably take this on if the work is divided up and there is some support. Please pm me Zenmei if I can contribute.
    Gassho
    Frankie

    Sat with you all last night.

  36. #36
    Quick update on our progress, we've extracted the list of references from the article Jundo posted. That gave us a list of 233 works. We're working our way through that list, picking out entries that might be useful. Once we've got that list filtered down, we'll review what we have and see where we need more research.

    Gassho, Zenmei (sat/lah)

  37. #37
    Treeleaf Unsui Shugen's Avatar
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    Shugen

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  38. #38
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  39. #39
    Thank you Zenmei. =)

    Gassho
    Shingen

    Sat/LAH
    RINDO SHINGEN
    倫道 真現

  40. #40
    Wow, Zenmei, Karen,

    that's great! This thread went totally under my radar, have not seen it as "new" in a while, and look what is being accomplished!

    Thank you for doing this, and thanks to Jundo for finding a list.

    Gassho
    Jika
    sattoday
    治 Ji
    花 Ka

  41. #41
    I completely missed this thread....and I'm disappointed that I did!

    I think this is a wonderful idea, and definitely long past due. I can't believe that enlightenment or awakening (or zen in general) would be "exclusive". I had never really thought of it before!

    Zenmei and Karen, if you could use a hand, let me know. I'm happy to help with the load!

    Gassho--

    --JimH (SatToday)

  42. #42
    Another update, still chugging along slowly. So far there aren’t a whole lot of references to individual practitioners. A lot of karmic punishment and self mutilation, though.

    JimH, I just saw your post, sorry. If you’re still interested, PM me.

    Gassho, Zenmei (sat/lah)

  43. #43
    Thank you for continuing to work on this, Zenmei!

    Gassho
    Byōkan
    sat + lah
    Please take my words with a big grain of salt. I know nothing. Wisdom is only found in our whole-hearted practice together.

  44. #44
    Thank you, Zenmei.

    In the old days, they would have blamed most such disabilities on past life Karma, I am sure. However, I know that there are enough good, representative names in there to make a good list. It would not be comprehensive, of course, but each name will stand for untold others who never had a chance to Practice or Ordain because of their condition.

    Looking forward to seeing the results, Zenmei. Thank you again.

    Gassho, J

    SatTodayLAH
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

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