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Thread: FLAWLESS FLAWS and the UNBROKEN PEACE of the BROKEN

  1. #1

    FLAWLESS FLAWS and the UNBROKEN PEACE of the BROKEN

    A post in my "coming down from the clouds, makin' it real" series ...

    Someone somewhere on the Zen Buddhist interwebs made a post (now gone) about attaining an Enlightenment that is said to be free of all confusion, where one's entire life is a constant meditation that does not break or stop no matter what you are doing or going through "even if you are being tortured." It is said to be without weakness or flaw and with complete clarity of view permanently, 24/7/365,

    That is an extremely idealized depiction of Enlightenment that I believe tends to become true only in legends about dead people as they gradually are transformed in story telling and are heralded as our long dead religious heroes. It is generally not true of living people during their life (although some cults do try to raise their leaders to such levels during life). When someone respected dies from George Washington to Dogen, even perhaps the historical Buddha, the biographers began to strip away all their humanity, and emphasize exaggerated perfections, in a process common in all societies and religions called "hagiography" of saints. Soon, many in the religious world are dipped in gold, made into statues put on pedestals, perhaps even assigned extreme "Marvel Comics" like powers and abilities. That does not mean that they were not incredible, wise, good, heroic, special people with something vital to teach, only that we tend to turn living flesh into heartfelt but imagined legends as time passes (even with modern people, and the process slowly begins during their life sometimes:

    https://www.academia.edu/944021/When...en_Hagiography

    Folks like D.T. Suzuki, with their early extremely romantic descriptions of the Ancestors, contribute to this impression among many folks in the English speaking world, and folks in all cultures, countries and religions want to believe the best about their religious saints and heroes.


    That being said, it is not the end of the story either:

    Zazen and Zen Enlightenment truly holds all this world ... including a world of birth and death, sickness and health, war and peace, love and torture, yet free of all that. Such is beyond time, so in that way, is truly "no break no stop." A Buddha's Eye truly does see and contain all in the world that is done or gone through or not done. Such is without "weakness or flaw" and nothing is lacking even as and amid this oh so flawed world. There is not an ounce of confusion, though life can be so confusing (not a drop of confusion about confusion). YIPPEE!!

    And yet, and yet ... We are flesh and blood in a world of birth and death, sickness and sometimes war. When I am tortured, I will likely scream, thank you. When my loved one dies, I will cry. (Yes, this is a Great Koan, and if the meaning is unclear of how all this can be true at once, someone perhaps knows "squat" about squatting Zazen ) ...

    Yantou Quanhuo (Japanese Gānto Zenkatsu) ... became master of Yantou Monastery, where he led a congregation of students. In 887 on the "eighth day of the fourth month" his temple was raided by bandits. When the bandits realized the temple had nothing of value to take, one of them stabbed Yantou—murdering him. it is said that his scream at death could be heard for ten miles. He was given the title Ch'an Master Clear Severity following his death. Yantou is the subject of several koan cases that appear in the Mumonkan. (https://books.google.co.jp/books?id=...master&f=false)

    Such is my belief as one practitioner, others may disagree.

    Gassho, Jundo



    From The Life of Dogen Zenji Manga Comic
    http://global.sotozen-net.or.jp/eng/...ex.htmlSomeone
    Last edited by Jundo; 05-30-2017 at 04:07 AM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  2. #2
    Thank you Jundo.

    Gassho, Kyotai
    ST
    I am a student at Treeleaf. Please take what I say with a grain of salt. Gassho

  3. #3
    Joyo
    Guest
    Yes, thank you, Jundo.

    Gassho,
    Joyo
    sat today/lah

  4. #4
    Hi Jundo,

    This is an interesting discussion. Would you say that the story about the person who spat on Buddha also an exaggeration?

    With all possible humility, in my experience, Zen practice made me more sensitive. I remember going to the market and being filled with extreme sadness when I saw chicken trapped and were going to be killed. I reached a point when it was physically not possible to eat meat. Zen practice does make one active and not reactive. For example, I may get a very nasty e-mail from a parent criticising my teachers and my management approach. I'd still reply to it very calmly. I'd also not react to a rude person.

    According to what I have read, Master Dogen cried when Orin's baby died. He shared everything and was compassionate. Ascetics got it wrong when they believed that no feeling was the way to enlightenment. A feeling of bliss is a feeling also. Isn't it? If one is seeking enlightenment, it's still a selfish motive, isn't it? We sit for others and we have no goals. This is true Dharma from what I have understood or realised, I must say.

    SatToday,
    Gassho,
    Geerish,
    LAH.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Guish View Post
    Hi Jundo,

    This is an interesting discussion. Would you say that the story about the person who spat on Buddha also an exaggeration?
    You mean this story? I certainly believe such is possible!

    The Buddha was sitting under a tree talking to his disciples when a man came and spat in his face. He wiped it off, and he asked the man, “What next? What do you want to say next?” The man was a little puzzled because he himself never expected that when you spit in someone’s face he should ask “What next?” He had no such experience in his past. He had insulted people and they had become angry and they had reacted. Or if they were cowards and weaklings, they had smiled, trying to bribe him. But the Buddha was like neither, he was not angry, nor in any way offended, nor in any way cowardly. But just matter-of-factly he said, “What next?” There was no reaction on his part.

    But Buddha’s disciples became angry, and they reacted. His closest disciple, Ananda, said, “This is too much. We cannot tolerate it. He has to be punished for it, otherwise everybody will start doing things like this!”

    Buddha said, “You keep silent. He has not offended me, but you are offending me. He is new, a stranger. He must have heard from people something about me, that this man is an atheist, a dangerous man who is throwing people off their track, a revolutionary, a corrupter. And he may have formed some idea, a notion of me. He has not spit on me, he has spit on his notion. He has spit on his idea of me because he does not know me at all, so how can he spit on me?
    I certainly believe it is possible, and that such saintly behavior exists in human beings. As a matter of fact, I just posted to our Gojo Bodhisattva about this human saint who, I assume, was not even Buddhist ...

    A woman who tried to help one of the Portland train stabbing victims in his final moments is speaking out about his last words.

    [A man] is accused of stabbing three men who intervened when he allegedly yelled racial slurs at two young women, one of whom was wearing a hijab, on a Portland light-rail train Friday night.

    ... "I told him [hero named Taliesin Myrddin Namkai-Meche}, 'You're a beautiful man. I'm so sorry the world is so cruel,'" Macy said.

    "He said, 'Tell them, I want everybody to know, I want everybody on the train to know, I love them,'" she said. "He was a beautiful man, that's what I want people to know."
    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/portland...ms-last-words/



    Gassho, Jundo
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  6. #6
    Thank you, Jundo

    Washin,
    sat/lah

  7. #7
    Thank you, Jundo

    Gassho,
    Taiyo

    SatToday
    太 Tai (Great)
    陽 Yō (Sun)

  8. #8
    Thank you, Jundo.

    Gassho
    Paul Sat today LAH

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

  9. #9
    Hi,

    What does enlightenment mean?

    Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

  10. #10
    Thank you Jundo. =)

    Gassho
    Shingen

    SatToday/LAH
    RINDO SHINGEN
    倫道 真現

  11. #11
    Thank you, Jundo. I see that thread has been deleted now, either by the poster or the admins.


    Gassho
    Kokuu
    -sattoday/LAH-
    ------------------------------------
    Feel free to message me if you wish to talk about issues around practicing with physical limitations. This is something I have been sitting with for a fair while and am happy to help with suggestions or just offer a listening ear.

  12. #12
    That version of enlightenment was how I understood it when I started reading about Zen as a teenager. It seemed so magical and unattainable, I didn't even think it was worth trying. That was obviously not something for an ordinary human like me, so I didn't even bother.

    I feel like maybe the tendency to dip our saints in gold is partially a form of aversion to the way things are. We want to believe that it's possible for someone to rise above this mess and get a better deal, because if they can do it, maybe we have a chance.

    I'm so grateful to have found a way that doesn't turn away from reality, that accepts things as they are, admits sometimes you have to jump up from sitting to change a diaper, or that sometimes your sitting is actually lying down, and that's okay. This way feels inclusive, not disregarding a single being, and that feels much more like awakening to me than some transcendent better-than-human perfect clarity.

    Gassho, Zenmei
    #sat/lah

  13. #13
    Thank you, Jundo.

    Gassho,
    Taylor
    SatToday
    a bee / staggers out / of the peony.
    -matsuo basho

  14. #14
    Interesting thoughts on becoming larger than life.
    Thanks,
    Austin P, sat today

    Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk

  15. #15
    Thanks and thanks for a new vocabulary word "hagiography"

    Gassho
    Doshin
    Sattodat/LAH

  16. #16
    Thanks Jundo.
    Gassho,
    Enjaku
    SAT LAH
    援若

  17. #17
    Thank you Jundo.

    Gassho,

    Kyonin
    Sat/LAH
    Hondō Kyōnin
    奔道 協忍

  18. #18
    Thank you, Jundo.

    May we all realize freedom from our delusions about enlightenment, though these delusions are inexhaustible.

    Gassho,
    Hoko
    #SatToday
    LAH
    法 Dharma
    口 Mouth

  19. #19
    Hi All,
    3 years ago my daughter gave me an autobiography called I AM Malala, and of course we all know of this young (youngest to ever receive the Nobel Peace Prize), and she was accousted and murder attempted upon this young woman; we know that this woman came very close to death! Something changes when a person makes the journey to be so very close to death, and yes this person returns a changed person. For Malala this has meant a resolve to set a school for young Muslim women. So Malala gained dignity and courage. This meant that despite her age, and despite the treacherous nature of those who would find education, especially of young women, girls of Muslim faith, these girls, these people would threaten, and even take violence and even murder these girls who sought to rise to equality. Malala is now a single minded and courageous person. She knows that by helping those like herself that her (call it soul) is fulfilled, that she has and will prove her destiny, to help despite threat of murder, and now because of her resolve and compassion she has drawn world wide focus on this powerful and necessary need to read, write, do mathematics. These are basic needs and rights of everyone, and Malala recognizes the peaceful nature of her resolve for girls like herself. Her changes fostered world wide attention to a dire need. Thu Malala is one of those special people who will touch the lives of everyone.



    Tai Shi
    std
    Gassho
    Last edited by Tai Shi; 05-31-2017 at 08:44 PM.
    "We cannot enjoy life if we spend a lot of time worrying about what happened yesterday and what will happen tomorrow." Thich Nhat Hanh

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Tai Shi View Post
    Hi All,
    3 years ago my daughter gave me an autobiography called I AM Malala, and of course we all know of this young (youngest to ever receive the Nobel Peace Prize), and she was accousted and murder attempted upon this young woman; we know that this woman came very close to death! Something changes when a person makes the journey to be so very close to death, and yes this person returns a changed person. For Malala this has meant a resolve to set a school for young Muslim women. So Malala gained dignity and courage. This meant that despite her age, and despite the treacherous nature of those who would find education, especially of young women, girls of Muslim faith, these girls, these people would threaten, and even take violence and even murder these girls who sought to rise to equality. Malala is now a single minded and courageous person. She knows that by helping those like herself that her (call it soul) is fulfilled, that she has and will prove her destiny, to help despite threat of murder, and now because of her resolve and compassion she has drawn world wide focus on this powerful and necessary need to read, write, do mathematics. These are basic needs and rights of everyone, and Malala recognizes the peaceful nature of her resolve for girls like herself. Her changes fostered world wide attention to a dire need. Thu Malala is one of those special people who will touch the lives of everyone.



    Tai Shi
    std
    Gassho
    Yes, one does not need to be "Buddhist" in any way to teach beauty and wisdom.

    Thank you Taishi (you are a pretty good teacher yourself)!

    Gassho, Jundo

    SatTodayLAF
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  21. #21
    Thank you

    -satToday
    Thanks,
    Kaishin (Open Heart aka Matt)
    Please take this layman's words with a grain of salt.

  22. #22
    Greetings Jundo,

    Do you think that the following film is a true/accurate description of the life of Master Dogen? I have been inspired so much by this when I discovered it.



    Gassho,
    Geerish
    ST

  23. #23
    Thank you, Jundo.

    Gassho,
    Jakuden
    SatToday/LAH
    清 道 寂田
    SEIDO JAKUDEN
    I am a novice priest. Any resemblance my posts may have to actual teachings about the Dharma, living or dead, is purely coincidental (and just my attempt to be helpful).

  24. #24
    Thankyou, Jundo.
    Gassho.
    Rob.

    ST

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