Zen & The Fear of Rejection

[Beakon]

Hello Gang,

Has there ever been the fear of rejection discussed on this forum? If so, let me know. I am fascinated with the concept of how the ego plays these records between our ears. The messages the records play sound like discouraging, fear based and irrational things. Before I began meditating seriously these records took control of my life. If say for example, I asked a girl out on a date, she would reject me. The memory of her rejecting me would replay itself over and over.


The effect is usually the same with any negative situation, like having a regression about being abused, or teased by someone. Experiencing this mind state is the reason I would take long warm showers. The warm showers were comforting so I built an unconcious habit of using comfort to cope with stress. I built up enough resistance to use meditation as a coping mechanism to deal with regressions and anxiety. There is a level of neurosis that can build up to deal with difficult situations. Since I work with the public as a cashier, their words effect me more than they know. I don't understand how come I am sensitive to what another person says or does that makes me feel bad.


It's the tiny things. People who laugh at me, the tone of someone's voice, the stomping on baseboards, repetitive conversations, accused or being scolded constantly. The Buddha advises not to take anyone's 'gifts' that cause harm. At work where I am bullied the most peoples comments and rude behaviour echo in my mind constantly. I cannot figure out for the life of me how to detach myself from hearing the negative things my ego says. I will think about what they said constantly. I will hide it until it is safe to cry in private. This has happened all too often lately.


The good news is that two customers who harassed me need to write an apology letter to me or face consequences. I like to tinker with the concept of resistance to doing things that I'm afraid of. I'll do anything: cold showers, waking up early, ask that girl out, perform on stage, talk to a stranger, or pet someone's dog. Tonight I asked a girl out from the theatre group I perform with. She rejected me, then the painful side effects started, so I needed to cope by using the computer. I started fearing that she won't want to speak to me again, I'm a loser, she might think I'm creepy. I started rationalizing 'okay, if I see her again I'll have two options: a) I can be non-challante and see if she comes around b) I can try to initiate conversations, but that will seem needy. There is the desire to be someone else that girls feel attracted to so I can succeed in that area of life. Who else can I be, but me?


The feeling I experience before asking for a phone number is like my ego wants to fight against the decision to ask someone for their personal information. After being rejected, the centre of my back feels tense and I'm cringing. There was a TEDx Talk I watched to help me understand what was going on. This is called 100 Days of Getting Rejected. A man with delusions of grandeur sets out on a quest to see if he could: a) get donuts made in the olympic symbol shape b) teach a university course c) take a random girl out to dinner. What he learned was how rejection is nessicary for society to advance. How you can use rejection to your personal advantage. I'll post the link down below in case your curious to watch.

My question of the day, how do you improve upon this setback I described? Does this sound familiar?

[Tom]

I normally don't have it, but I've been having it on Treeleaf due to my scant knowledge of Zen, even though there's "nothing to know." :P
Tom
Sat.

[Jishin]

IMG_0042.JPGIMG_0043.JPG

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Kyonin]

Hi Beakon,

Hey is that your real name? It would be great if you could upload a picture of you for your avatar.

About rejection... I was a fat kid and rejection was terrible. I had to deal with it over and over again until I pretty much isolated myself from the world. That was even worse in teenage years. I built a wall of books, comics and videogames.

But I was very lucky that as a teenager I started taking Karate-Do class. My Sensei helped me a lot to build self confidence, to keep a positive mind and to not to be afraid of asking. Rejection started to melt away with every passing year. My Sensei was from Korea and he was a Buddhist

Now as an adult, rejection is no longer an issue. If I am rejected in business, that's fine. If I'm rejected in social life, that's also fine too.

Zen practice helps a lot to see things as they are without adding drama or destructive thoughts to life, which is what happened to Jia Jiang.

Gassho,

Kyonin
#SatToday

[Meitou]

Hi Beakon,

When dealing with people that behave in a 'difficult' way, I remind myself that none of us wants to suffer, all of us just want to be happy and all of us have Buddha nature inside somewhere and I ask myself if their behaviour is a manifestation of their own suffering - as mine can be without doubt! This helps me to forget about myself and develop compassion towards others - their suffering is my suffering and vice versa.
And then regarding feelings of hurt and rejection etc, it's always useful for me to come back to the same question - who or what is suffering - and reflect and meditate on that, the idea of non-self, time and time and time again.
This is just my take on things right now, something I'm working with

Gassho.

Sat with you all today

[Jakuden]

One thing that helps for me is to take the focus off myself and on to the other person. If I have their best interests truly at heart, then rejection is not a problem because I don't make it about me. It sounds like perhaps you are focused more on your own feeling of lack and your need of a certain type of relationship rather than what you could be doing to be a good friend to others. Listen, pay attention to their verbal and non-verbal signals, remember the details of their lives, and just be there. With time and practice, you might be pleasantly surprised to find that one of those friends becomes more than a friend, but that cannot be rushed or forced.

We all reject stuff all day long... we constantly choose one thing in favor of another... but there are infinite choices, big and small, to fit every person and every situation. There are choices about colleges, cellphone plans, dating partners, advertising media, employees, you name it. If you wouldn't want to limit your own ability to choose, then it's perfectly all right for others to have their preferences as well. It makes life interesting.

Gassho,
Jakuden
SatToday

[Rich]

Beakon, your mind has been conditioned with negative self thoughts. It covers up your wonderful presence. Your bright and pure Buddha nature. Have you been practicing just sitting?

SAT today

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[Beakon]

Hey Gang,


No, I have skipped meditation sessions lately. The habit of meditating 'vipassana' style two times a day lasts for two to three months. Since I am new to Tree Leaf I am trying to make time for the zazenkai sessions. There is still a spark of bodhicitta left in me. Connecting to the breath is very easy when performing samu. Since I began meditation as a lifestyle, I can feel my own confidence in a way I never knew possible. All of you have thoughtful things to say about rejection. Kyonin, you make a good point about practicing martial arts to raise self-esteem. I have given thought to getting back into martial arts.

[Joyo]

Hello Beakon, rejection comes, rejection goes, just do not become stuck in your thoughts. This is coming from someone who has spent a lifetime not fitting in so I've had plenty of years of practice. It gets easier in time, I promise.

Gassho,
Joyo
sat today

[Beakon]

Hello Beakon, rejection comes, rejection goes, just do not become stuck in your thoughts. This is coming from someone who has spent a lifetime not fitting in so I've had plenty of years of practice. It gets easier in time, I promise.

Gassho,
Joyo
sat today

A lotus for you, a Buddha to be.

[Jika]

I normally don't have it, but I've been having it on Treeleaf due to my scant knowledge of Zen, even though there's "nothing to know." :P
Tom
Sat.

Like.

[Jika]

Hi Beakon,

I also get upset about lots of things and wish I wouldn't.

On the bus I take to work, there are two ladies who enjoy long chats.
One of them seems to be coming from night shift.
They discuss quite superficial topics, e.g. one of them describes her bus plan an when it would be better to take the train every second morning.
As bus plans do not change often, she says the same thing every second morning.

I feel their talk is getting to me because it's so loud in rather shrill voices.
Lopts of things my body does not feel good about in the morning, like people smoking next to me or loud sounds.

Then I feel ashamed, because the point of those ladies' conversation seems to be enjoying company and conversation itself.
How can I allow my need for quietness be more important then theirs?

(Nice picture, Jishin.)

I've tried ear plugs but risk missing getting off the bus.

The "second arrow" always is, that this zen stuff should make me all relaxed and accepting of noise etc but it does not (which means I'm quite a failure).

I can sit Zazen in unusual situations, loud environments like a construction site, but put those two ladies next to me and I'm lost.

We all have our demons, even if it's chatting ladies.

Gassho
Jika
#sattoday

[Getchi]

Hi Beakon

After a hard life I think to myself "there is no rejection because nothing is ever final. Because its all relative, I have just narrowed down my unskillful options."

Zazen, Vipassana all to me touch the same face; now is that a nose or a smile?



Gassho,
Geoff.

SAttoday

[Jakuden]

Hi Beakon,

I also get upset about lots of things and wish I wouldn't.

On the bus I take to work, there are two ladies who enjoy long chats.
One of them seems to be coming from night shift.
They discuss quite superficial topics, e.g. one of them describes her bus plan an when it would be better to take the train every second morning.
As bus plans do not change often, she says the same thing every second morning.

I feel their talk is getting to me because it's so loud in rather shrill voices.
Lopts of things my body does not feel good about in the morning, like people smoking next to me or loud sounds.

Then I feel ashamed, because the point of those ladies' conversation seems to be enjoying company and conversation itself.
How can I allow my need for quietness be more important then theirs?

(Nice picture, Jishin.)

I've tried ear plugs but risk missing getting off the bus.

The "second arrow" always is, that this zen stuff should make me all relaxed and accepting of noise etc but it does not (which means I'm quite a failure).

I can sit Zazen in unusual situations, loud environments like a construction site, but put those two ladies next to me and I'm lost.

We all have our demons, even if it's chatting ladies.

Gassho
Jika
#sattoday

Oh I so relate to this... there are some things that can get under my skin no matter how much I practice acceptance... I try to think of them as what keeps me humble so I don't become too "cool for school" and start judging others' weaknesses. Although yes it would be nice not to have to constantly fail and stay humble, LOL. Thanks for sharing your wonderful self with us Jika and everyone else here!

Gassho
Jakuden
SatToday


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[Marie]

Hi Beakon,

I find that how we react to rejection has a lot to do with our general state of mind.

For example, at times in my life where I've been more self-confident and/or happier, I've been able to let unkindness or rejection bounce off me much more easily than when I had self-esteem issues or was feeling downcast.

My point is that rather than focusing specifically on rejection, it may be helpful to try to take a step back. Just sit, and live. You may find that how you feel about rejection will change naturally.

Gassho
Marie
Sattoday

[alan.r]

To Jakuden and Jika,

I like both of your posts because you're talking about "acceptance" and what that really means. I hope it's alright if I add to this a little. You both seem to be talking about the situation like this: when a person is being annoying, I need to be accepting of that person and not judge, and then this will lead you to a more contented, peaceful place. But to me that has "acceptance" only going one way. To me, we're not going through the world and looking at it and going "I accept that, I accept this, I accept that too." We are looking at ourselves. Can I accept my frustration? Can I accept that I'm feeling annoyed? How do I let that energy move in my body and mind? Acceptance is not out there; it is right here, this body and mind. My acceptance or non-acceptance of those annoying ladies is only my acceptance or non-acceptance of myself, my mind, in that moment. I ask myself: who is annoying you?

To Beakon, I'd say that you shouldn't worry about trying to figure out how to deal with rejection. That seems to me to be the wrong starting place. You should be thinking about what you're wanting. When we're rejected, we begin by wanting something, and when we don't get the object we want (whether it is a romantic partner or a better job or nicer co-workers), then we feel like we're a failure. But what happens to the world when we want less? What happens to the world when we go into a situation and are not expecting something from it? Where does rejection go then? I know this is difficult - we're conditioned to think and overthink and analyze and over-analyze (I'm wonderfully horrible at it, and most of my writing deals with it) and to want, but perhaps if you approach the thing differently, you might feel a little lighter.

Gassho,
Alan
sattoday

[Ugrok]

I love what you just said, Alan. I remember in one of the books about Suzuki, something along those lines : "you should lose the will to live, but not gain the will to die". Sounds true : if you don't expect anything from life, if you don't grasp it or want something from it, it becomes a lot more free and spaceful. And a lot more interesting as well !

Gassho,

Uggy, sat today.

[Joyo]

To Beakon, I'd say that you shouldn't worry about trying to figure out how to deal with rejection. That seems to me to be the wrong starting place. You should be thinking about what you're wanting. When we're rejected, we begin by wanting something, and when we don't get the object we want (whether it is a romantic partner or a better job or nicer co-workers), then we feel like we're a failure. But what happens to the world when we want less? What happens to the world when we go into a situation and are not expecting something from it? Where does rejection go then? I know this is difficult - we're conditioned to think and overthink and analyze and over-analyze (I'm wonderfully horrible at it, and most of my writing deals with it) and to want, but perhaps if you approach the thing differently, you might feel a little lighter.

Gassho,
Alan
sattoday

Thank you for this, Alan. Very true ad helpful advice.

Gassho,
Joyo
sat today

[Onkai]

I'd like to thank Beakon and everyone who has posted here. This thread is helpful to me as well.

Gassho,
Onkai
SatToday

[Beakon]

Your welcome, Onkai. My goal is to initiate conversations about major life issues and Buddhist stuff. Maybe Star Trek and Star Wars. See what kind of music us Zen Buddhists prefer. Are we all the new age hippies people make us out to be? Nah. After this talk is over, why should we worry?

[Tai Shi]

This fear of rejection was only a little. I believe it came from an upbringing with fundamentalism and Baptist parents. The first came when my mother, brother, and I were so poor we depended on government surplus food for part of our diet, and our little family, and we never thought of ourselves as family, were solicited by the Assembly of God Church, and I always felt like a fish out of water having been saved in a Baptist Church almost 2000 miles away in my father's home state of California. Added to our situation in the late 50 s and the early 1960 s my mother was thought of as an evil woman because she was divorced and this was as sinful by our neighborhoods, for we moved often. Luckily I made the friendship of a boy who loved science fiction when I was eleven-years-old. By the time I was fourteen I was telling the boys at church evidence of scientific possibilities when I was at church. When I turned 14 I had read much of Arthur C Clark, Jams Blish, and Robert Heinlein. My constant was a hobby in model rockets which actually lifted several hundred feet into the air. I was "saved" by a belief in evolution, and I no longer went to church, and performed in an "evil" theater group clear past college. Thank you Jundo for seeing me as a practitioner of Zen because when I became a student here, I actually knew very little which is still the cas, but at least I practice Shikantaza often in a week. Sorry for being so long winded, and perhaps this little story might help some one.

Tai Shi
std
Gassho.

[Getchi]

I have dedicated the merit of my last session to All Beings, may they find compassion,wisdom and right understanding.

Please know, you are not alone. We talk with our hands here, and hear with our eyes; united in Sitting we join all those before us.

United in suffering, we join all those before us.


Aaaand a biiig HUG for you all


Gassho,
Geoff.

SAtToday.

[Jakuden]

Arthur C Clark, Jams Blish, and Robert Heinlein. My constant was a hobby in model rockets which actually lifted several hundred feet into the air.

This brings back good memories! And Isaac Asimov... EE "Doc" Smith... Ray Bradbury. And my brother used to do those rockets too, my job as the little sister was to catch the section with the parachute when it came down. Although we lost a couple on the roof of the shopping mall.

Gassho,
Jakuden
SatToday

[Rich]

Practice smiling. It opens the channels. Smile at everything in the heavens and earth. Also yourself and internal organs. ☺🤗😀😊😉🙂😇😂

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