Thank you all for those considered responses, including Jishin's trademark gnomic answer. Daizen, that's a really interesting thought, thank you. I was struck by your post earlier in the thread and I shall spend some time with this. I guess the unencumbered heart knows the right thing to do.
Many thanks to all.
Martyn
Sat today.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Not always. I was never one to believe that some form of insight from Zazen or the like will always tell one "the right thing to do" in all situations. That is kind of a legend added on to the biographies of old dead masters, that they always knew "the one right thing to do." Life is not so simple. Some dilemmas remain dilemmas, some not knowing remains not knowing. Even for Buddhas.Originally Posted by martyrob
But at least our heart is then unencumbered amid the dilemma and not knowing!
And that can make all the difference in living and acting skillfully in this complicated minefield of a world. Best to try to walk through calmly.
At least, if nevertheless still unintentionally stepping on a mine, one's heart is unencumbered right up to that moment.
Gassho, J
SatToday
Last edited by Jundo; 01-17-2017 at 02:58 AM.
ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE
This heart isn't always unencumbered. It gets right in there and rolls around sometimes and can be a real drama king. But this happens less so because of ongoing practice. That's why I talked about baby steps.
There is just less fear in general and that is very freeing.
....I just got a notice in mail today....just saw a few minutes ago...saying that the federal revenue agency did not get my business taxes for 2014, and it looks all official and lawyered up. They did get the taxes and there is a receipt somewhere, but it's going to mean fussing with the bureaucracy which is not fun. The point of mentioning this is because there was a time when such a notice would have FREAKED... ME... OUT.
Now it just doesn't... it is more like "oh..well.. deal with it" and that's it. This is because of our practice, and it is a little miracle, because it means I am able to meet responsibilities, including social ones, more effectively without spinning more melodrama and problems.
Gassho
Daizan
sat today
Last edited by RichardH; 01-17-2017 at 02:53 AM.
It must be "pick on treeleafers" week at the Canada Revenue Agency. They just noticed that they overpaid me $1,000 in 2011 during parental leave with my son.This heart isn't always unencumbered. It gets right in there and rolls around sometimes and can be a real drama king. But this happens less so because of ongoing practice. That's why I talked about baby steps.
There is just less fear in general and that is very freeing.
....I just got a notice in mail today....just saw a few minutes ago...saying that the federal revenue agency did not get my business taxes for 2014, and it looks all official and lawyered up. They did get the taxes and there is a receipt somewhere, but it's going to mean fussing with the bureaucracy which is not fun. The point of mentioning this is because there was a time when such a notice would have FREAKED... ME... OUT
Now it just doesn't... it is more like "oh..well.. deal with it" and that's it. This is because of our practice, and it is a little miracle, because it means I am able to meet responsibilities, including social ones, more effectively without spinning more melodrama and problems.
Gassho
Daizan
sat today
Gassho, Kyotai
ST
Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk
I very much enjoyed this comment. Thank you Jundo.Not always. I was never one to believe that some form of insight from Zazen or the like will always tell one "the right thing to do" in all situations. That is kind of a legend added on to the biographies of old dead masters, that they always knew "the one right thing to do." Life is not so simple. Some dilemmas remain dilemmas, some not knowing remains not knowing. Even for Buddhas.
But at least our heart is then unencumbered amid the dilemma and not knowing!
And that can make all the difference in living and acting skillfully in this complicated minefield of a world. Best to try to walk through calmly.
At least, if nevertheless still unintentionally stepping on a mine, one's heart is unencumbered right up to that moment.
Gassho, J
SatToday
Gassho, Kyotai
ST
Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk
Someone wrote me, in light of the ongoing debate between Brad and Jiryu ...
http://hardcorezen.info/should-plumb...political/5108
... whether I believe there is ever a time to speak loudly about politics and social policy "from the pulpit," marching in protest and the like. OH, YES!
If government policies cross a line of hate, discrimination, unjustified violence, infringement of human rights, damage to the environment, there certainly is a time to speak up, march and protest, maybe go to jail for it. I might dare in such cases to speak out "from the pulpit", and even on behalf of the whole Sangha if I believe a matter particularly serious and beyond reasonable question. We may be very close to such lines these days in the United States, certainly that line has been crossed many places around the world. There are certain government actions that, I feel, would entail complicity and violation of the Precepts by merely sitting silent.
But it is a funny thing about the Precepts, at least as I see them (other Buddhists may disagree). There are certain lines where right and wrong are pretty black and white to my eyes: Child abuse would always be wrong, and there is simply no justification that I can imagine. To even stand silent in the face of child abuse would be wrong to my eyes, and a kind of complicity. I would speak out against child abuse in any and all cases, even on behalf of this Sangha. Likewise in opposing genocide, nuclear war or racial discrimination.
But then things may get a bit tricky, and few things are so clear to all:
The taking of the life of a sentient being is wrong, yet perhaps not in all cases: War is generally to be avoided and is always tragic, but is a war undertaken to protect a greater number of lives or society in general or western societies unjustified? Even if some innocent bystanders, even children, will be killed in doing so? What of capital punishment meant (at least by intent) as a deterrent to possible future criminals? Do tragic police shootings always represent systemic racial discrimination, or the pressures of under appreciated and over stressed police officers with their lives on the line, or both? What of euthanasia or assisted suicide for the terminally ill or those in irreversible pain? Buddhist voices and interpretations of the Precepts, now and for centuries, have disagreed on these very questions.
Child abuse is wrong, and the taking of sentient life is wrong, but good Buddhists may come to disagree on a woman's right to an abortion and the preservation of life (some Buddhist countries such as Thailand and Myanmar restrict or ban abortions based on their view of the Precepts) ...
http://www.scienceworldreport.com/ar...fect-cases.htm
https://www.pri.org/stories/2016-09-...ays-one-doctor
Good Buddhists will disagree about this issue.
I have my own personal opinions, and they are clear to me (although often more as a necessary evil than something I celebrate). I personally strongly support a woman's right to choose. I believe that most (although not all) Buddhists I know in modern Western countries will support a woman's right to choose abortion during the early months of pregnancy, and later in the case of rape or when the life and health of the mother is at risk. However, not all Buddhists, even in the modern West, agree and there is a Buddhist view of abortion very much paralleling the belief of some Christians of "right to life" (listen to the short interview about Myanmar Buddhists above).
I have my own view on this issue, but I recognize that other Buddhists do and will disagree while, in their view, remaining well within the Precepts. I believe that they are well within the Precepts too (although they may believe that I am not!) As an individual, without my Robes, you will find me calling and marching for a "Woman's Right to Choose", but I will not seek to speak for all good Buddhists or impose my interpretation on them.
BOTTOM LINE: There will be clear cases in which I must speak out, perhaps as representative of this Sangha (Would anyone object to my protesting child abuse or genocide or supporting clean air in general?). In other situations, while perhaps some Buddhists are misguided in their interpretations compared to others, I will not make that call for them. So, there will be so many cases on specific policies (such as on particular environmental policies such as supporting or opposing nuclear energy or opposing an oil pipeline or banning fluoride in the water supply) where I hesitate to take one position as spokesperson for this Sangha, no matter how I personally feel as one person. It will be case to case, best left to the good judgment and freedom of individual members as grown adults. I am not going to seek to speak for everybody, nor tell you the position to take.
It is fine for members to debate an issue among themselves in this place, so long as all are civil and polite in doing so. In fact, we do discuss and debate issues such as abortion, euthanasia, the justification for a particular war and the like many times in this Community, in our Precept reflections for Jukai and elsewhere in this Forum. It is just that I want things to remain civil and polite without shouting, name calling, screaming, flaming, threatening with damnation to hell and the like that seems to fill the internet and TV.
If there are Zen Teachers and other individual Sangha members who draw their line one place, then those Zen Teachers and other individual members should speak out and take action for themself!
If there are Zen Teachers and other individual Sangha members who do not draw their line there, then those Zen Teachers and other individuals can choose not to.
To each their own.
And there may be some cases where I dare speak for this Community. Heck, I may have the gumption to speak for all Buddhists, all sentient beings in the ten directions!
When a line is crossed, I will be there ... speaking out, marching and maybe getting thrown in jail. If things are sufficiently black and white, I may even dare to "speak from the pulpit" for all of us. In other cases, I will leave you to draw your own lines and come to your own understanding of things. I have no exclusive pipeline to God or Buddha on most questions.
I am sorry that I cannot be clearer on this topic. It is just not black and white.
Gassho, Jundo
SatToday
Last edited by Jundo; 01-18-2017 at 09:45 AM.
ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE
Thanks Jundo and everyone for this ongoing discussion.
Not to further complicate matters... but I don't think there is ever a problem with one publicly stating one's own opinion, as you say, respectfully and politely. I don't even think there is a problem with a priest at SFZC taking a firm stance in opposing the policies of the president elect. My issue continues to be where people confuse opposing views and actions with judging individuals. If a child is being abused, or people are being murdered, we can continue to oppose child abuse and murder, yet our empathy and compassion can extend beyond the victims and their families, to the wider community, the family of the perpetrators and the perpetrators themselves. If a spokesperson for Treeleaf ever said, "I publicly denounce violence against women", I would stand behind them, provided they were able to do so without lapsing into judging or dehumanising those who have been violent towards women. This is where SFZC went wrong for me. I believe we can oppose child abuse, genocide, racism etc (even up to and including removing a person's liberty), standing up for what we believe, without sacrificing our respect and compassion for those responsible and without losing sight of our shared responsibility for social problems like murder and abuse. I believe this non-judgemental attitude towards others must remain unconditional, even while we're marching against them.
Gassho,
Enjaku,
Sat
援若
Thank you Jundo and Enjaku.
Gassho, Kyotai
ST
Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk
It seems to me that we'd do well in this day and age to learn how to disagree without being disagreeable. The art of taking a position and being able to defend it in a principled way has been lost to insults, half-truths, and stubborn refusal to compromise - on all sides of the political spectrum. With that being said, I would hope that here at Treeleaf we could be both open to everyone regardless of their political views, and at the same time require respect and civility in all of our dialogues. Just my two cents.
Gassho,
Tanjin
SatToday
探 TAN (Exploring)
人 JIN (Person)
Hi Martin
I also voted in the Brexit election, but voted against (what I see as) complicity with the European Union's free market, anti-democratic destruction of countries and feel no shame or despair. A modicum of fear, and a little regret...but mainly frustration at the way in which my vote has been interpreted by so many others. Which is why I wanted to pick you up on a couple of things in your post. You talk about what Trump supporters would have trouble in signing up to...but the truth remains that Trump supporters are not a homogeneous mass and it may well be that a lot of them would sign up to Treeleaf's credo (or at least to their understanding of Treeleaf's credo). Maybe not...but the point is that we suffer and inflict indignity on people when we lump them all together under a label.
I also wanted to point out the chasm between "You are welcome here despite your act of hatred, just as I am welcome here despite my many and daily acts of hatred" and "We recognise that we are all guilty of acts of hatred and subsequently everyone is welcome here". Same gist, different words, different message.
In any event, trees are just trees and we can argue about them all we want. As long as we don't believe that our arguments make us any different -better or worse- than the other person, there's probably no harm.
Diarmuid
#S2D
Well said.
Gassho, J
SatToday
ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE
Hi,
The world is comprised of people, comprising cities, which make up states, which make up countries, which make up continents, which make up planet earth, which make up the universe, which make up the Big Bang and beyond. The people from you to the Big Bang have spoken and voted for Trump. If you don't like the Big Bang and beyond, move!
So, like it or not, YOU voted for him.
DEAL with it and quit whining because YOU did this to yourself.
Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_
Hi all,
Just to add in a couple of thoughts about expressing and speaking out the things that go against the Precepts in politics and in the world.
Here in my country and with the government we have now, speaking out could get you killed or mysteriously "disappeared". At the beginning of 2017 prices on gasoline, food and life in general went sky high as Trump becomes a threat to Mexico and corruption is out of control. Things got ugly because people went out to protest and tried to take the streets, but the government sent out a wave of goons to pillage stores, rape and spread fear. The protests calmed down because of this, but now sadness and despair are deep in everyone's mind.
How to protest? What to do? Are questions that people make to me on a daily basis. You cant' protest but life needs to go on and families have kids to feed!
Here's my answer and it could be seen as naive or stupid, but I think it works.
We can't suddenly change the things we don't like in the planet. We can't expect that a revolution and civil war will change things because history shows us that in most cases revolution leads to even more corrupt governments to take place. However, people forget that all it takes to change a system or a biological entity, the force behind evolution, are the mutants. Yes, like the X-men. A mutant is a cell or an individual that is different from the pack. It sees things in a different light, has different ways to do things and is better suited to stir things up in the benefit of the whole organism.
The power of one, a tiny little mutant that is willing to work for the benefit of the system can change things now and plant the seeds of change. Working for the community, teaching kids to be compassionate and generous, pulling up hopeless people and encouraging them to keep on going... all that won't do anything to change the present. But will create a better future for a lot of people. Those actions create ripples and affect life in a positive way.
An insignificant mutant here teaching kids teamwork, another tiny mutant there teaching people how to knit sweaters for the winter, another teaching a language, other helping the elder, another one spreading the word of compassion and generosity. All without failing, without breaking.
In my deluded and naive mind, these little actions are much more important that an armed revolution. This is a way to surf the waters of evil presidents, child abuse and all the things we know they need to be transformed. It takes time, sure. But as part of Mother Nature, what's the rush?
Of course people looking for immediate change laugh at me and forget what I say. But, hey I keep on trying.
Sorry for the long post.
Gassho,
Kyonin
#SatToday
Hondō Kyōnin
奔道 協忍
Lovely. It is my hope and expectation that the human race will grow, evolve, out of this phase. Someday we will turn to laugh ... probably cry ... at how ignorant and misguided we once were. It is much as we now look back at the narrow mindedness of the ages of slavery or flat-earth or god-kings or witchcraft (all still go on in this world, by the way) and shake our heads. Someday, our children (I hope) will look at us and our times just so.We can't suddenly change the things we don't like in the planet. We can't expect that a revolution and civil war will change things because history shows us that in most cases revolution leads to even more corrupt governments to take place. However, people forget that all it takes to change a system or a biological entity, the force behind evolution, are the mutants. Yes, like the X-men. A mutant is a cell or an individual that is different from the pack. It sees things in a different light, has different ways to do things and is better suited to stir things up in the benefit of the whole organism.
The power of one, a tiny little mutant that is willing to work for the benefit of the system can change things now and plant the seeds of change. Working for the community, teaching kids to be compassionate and generous, pulling up hopeless people and encouraging them to keep on going... all that won't do anything to change the present. But will create a better future for a lot of people. Those actions create ripples and affect life in a positive way.
Yes, it all evolution begins with small new seeds that spread.
Gassho, J
SatToday
Last edited by Jundo; 01-19-2017 at 12:26 PM.
ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE
Wonderful Kyonin, well said thank you.
Gassho
Shingen
s@today
Thank you Kyonin, an inspiring start to the day to read this. Will go out and try to nourish the seed here in Upstate NY
Gassho,
Jakuden
SatToday
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/...-protest-rally
My wife will be at this place:
January 21: Women's March
The Women's March on Washington, which started as a Facebook page after the election, will be by far one of the biggest events after the inauguration. The march's organizers say up to 200,000 people could attend, and the event has drawn such enthusiasm and support that additional Facebook pages have been set up for parents who are bringing their children, as well as a "MarchBnb" website for people in need of housing.
Other marches inspired by the Women's March are also being held in other cities in the US and worldwide.
How about you? Where will you be?
Gassho, Jishin, ST
Last edited by Jishin; 01-19-2017 at 03:46 PM.
Hello Jishin,
My wife will be going to the march in Cincinnati with one of our sons. I will be taking our other son to a college basketball game we were given tickets to as a Christmas gift.
Kyonin,
Wonderfully said.
Gassho,
Shugen
Sattoday
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Meido Shugen
明道 修眼
You are like me then. I will be having a good time hanging out with my sons.
Gassho, Jishin, ST
Hi Dairmuid,
“Trees are just trees.” Yes, until we start saying some are doughty English oaks, sterling Scots pine and some are foreign, invasive species and need to be thinned out. Then we have to ask are trees just trees?
The SFZC comment
:*"You are welcome here despite your act of hatred, just as I am welcome here despite my many and daily acts of hatred" and "We recognise that we are all guilty of acts of hatred and subsequently everyone is welcome here".
Was clumsy and your re-writing of it much more emollient and effective.
I have no idea what all Trump supporters - as distinct from Trump voters – would sign up to, perhaps they would endorse the Treeleaf credo. I make an assumption that when people cheer on a man making incendiary comments against a whole slew of minorities that they would struggle endorsing a sentiment that is entirely contrary to those comments. But I might be wrong, I often am.
I am sorry that you feel you that your vote has been mis-interpreted. Your argument against the EU – one, incidentally, that I share – was drowned out by the immigration argument because that was based on fear and fear wins elections. It was an appalling campaign on both sides, I felt ashamed.
I know many people who voted Leave; good, kind, generous people, people who are my friends and family and people I work with. I'm sure you know many such people who voted Remain. I'm sure the same obtains in the US between Trump and Clinton voters. Trees are just trees. But now an ugly and bellicose rhetoric is at large that says some of the trees need cutting down, that some of the trees are not British and we have to make a decision now, reluctant as we might feel: do we stand up for all the trees or do we say, “Trees are just trees?”
Martyn
Sat today.
I understand your fears and your despair. Personally, I think we stand up for all the trees by acknowledging that trees are just trees with our words and our deeds. A muslim is just a person, a terrorist is just a person, a police officer is just a person, an angry mob is just a crowd of people, Trump is just a person, May is just a person, the guy who shouts at me on my bike is just a person, the co-worker who is causing so much pain is just a person...
So glad that we can have this space to discuss in peace!
Diarmuid
#S2D
http://www.lionsroar.com/conservativ...-speak-part-1/Our editor-in-chief recently issued a direct call to conservative Buddhists so that their voices might be better represented. We expect more responses will be forthcoming; here are some of those we’ve received thus far.
Gassho,
Sekishi #sattoday
Sekishi | 石志 | He/him | Better with a grain of salt, but best ignored entirely.
Hi Sekishi,
Thanks for posting this. I got a vibe of hurt feelings, a sense of being persecuted, and some mild lashing out. Before I even finished reading I was arguing with imagined versions of the authors. I think the impulse to argue with these people stems from the same feelings I detected in the writing. O.o
Gassho
Hoseki
Sat today
Hello,
Thank you for the link.
Discussing politics reminds one of an interviewed anthropologist by Barbara Walters (U.S. media personality) in the 1970's:
B.W. - Professor, do you believe women can reach the level of men?
Prof. - Yes, if they want to lower themselves enough.
Gassho
Myosha
sat today
"Recognize suffering, remove suffering." - Shakyamuni Buddha when asked, "Uhm . . .what?"
hahhhahhahahahaahahhah Thanks for sharing that Myosha
Gassho,
Risho
-sattoday
Thank you Sekishi! It actually felt pretty good to read these responses, if nothing else just to feel a human connection with those that wrote them, but I did (unexpectedly) understand some of their views. Please post updates if you can.
Gassho
Jakuden
SatToday
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thanks for the link.
Gassho, Kyotai
ST
Hi,
Racist = a person who shows or feels discrimination or prejudice against people of other races, or who believes that a particular race is superior to another.
Discrimination = the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people or things, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex.
Buddhists are racists and discriminate. Get over yourself.
Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_
Last edited by Jishin; 01-26-2017 at 01:03 PM.
Yes, some of us very overtly, and all of us have some of that in us to one degree or another. How many times have I been told here in Japan that "only Japanese" (not even Chinese or Koreans, let alone Americans) can "understand Zen."
Hmmmm. Might be so.
I have my own prejudices within me, as we all do. We must be on guard.
Gassho, J
SatToday
ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE
Yes. We all are racist. Even Buddha. How do I know this? He uttered the word somewhere and thus knew the meaning. Intent is the key though.
Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_
"There is one race, human. Everything else is ethnic grouping."
Betty Shabazz. Syracuse University - 1970
Gassho
Myosha
sat today
P.S. Always handy: "YOU'RE A RACIST!!" Wait, i LIKE humans.^^
Last edited by Myosha; 01-26-2017 at 01:41 PM.
"Recognize suffering, remove suffering." - Shakyamuni Buddha when asked, "Uhm . . .what?"
Here we go.
A big wall.
I wonder what's the biggest wall. The one dividing countries, families and friends? Or the walls inside us that make us blind to the most basic humanity?
Not sure how I should feel about all this.
I'll just go sit.
Gassho,
Kyonin
Hondō Kyōnin
奔道 協忍
The wall also serves to keep people in...
Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_
I voted for Trump.
I support his policies.
I'm a staunch liberal authoritarian and civic nationalist politically.
I'm also an anglo supremacist.
Somewhere out of all of my delusion I find peace from all of my struggle against "the enemy" here. Sometimes I feel like the walking embodiment of irony.
People can choose to hate me, love me, disagree with me, or agree with me. It doesn't matter to me. I'm here to sit and learn more from a veiw that differs so much from my own, but also a veiw I can get behind.
In my world, being a Buddhist is like being a closet homosexual.
Kyle,
Sat2day.
Sent from my LG-D851 using Tapatalk
Can you explain this please?
Gassho,
Sekishi #sattoday
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Sekishi | 石志 | He/him | Better with a grain of salt, but best ignored entirely.
Don't feed the troll.
Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_
It's kind of complex, and really not appropriate to speak about through this medium (out of respect for Jundo and others). I never push my world veiw on others, but if you're really interested in an explanation, then please PM me.
And no, I'm not trolling, I'm quite serious.
Kyle,
Sat2day.
Sent from my LG-D851 using Tapatalk
Then I salute you for speaking up for your deep convictions.
Deep Bows,
Gassho, Jishin, ST
Hi Kyle. Whatever the flavor of the views, our practice involves letting them go in zazen. Then when we get up from the cushion it is possible to see how we pick them up again, and how tightly we hold them. That effort is what is asked for here.
It is an ongoing effort. A friend once likened it to turning a tanker. The tanker wants to keep going in the direction it is going. So it is good to practice, especially with others when possible.
Gassho
Daizan
Sat today
That's beautiful Daizan.
I myself identified as a radical left wing agitator. But that was a lifetime ago, nd we all join together in emptines anyway.
CarelessVoice, thank you for your respectful expression.
Thank you,
Ge off.
Sat today, with every time in this moment.
P.s, I promise to post more often :-)
Nothing to do? Why not Sit?
There you go. This is the practice, but it is meant to be taken off the cushion, out of the Zendo and into the world as benevolence and compassion. During Zazen, one awakens to the realization that there is no separation.
Gassho
Jakuden
SatToday
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yes, I would like to understand. Would you PM me too? Thank you Kyle.
Gassho, Jundo
SatToday
ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE
Thank you, and thank you too, Jishin. Just so there's no confusion: I don't dislike anyone based on the color of their skin. The USSR Communist leader Leon Trotsky would probably call me a racist, but I'm not. I just really love my culture. However, I'm all for cultural exchange as long as my culture isn't threatened.
And yes, we are all here to sit and let fall away our ideological views, etc.
I'd rather be open with my views than sit in a shadow out of fear of being judged. It's truly refreshing to see that we can all find a common ground through this great mediator called Zazen.
Kyle,
Sat2day.
Sent from my LG-D851 using Tapatalk
Hi Kyle,
I am going to ask you to leave such opinions at the door of this place. Here, we sit beyond ups or downs based on nationality or race. Period.
On a personal note, I have lived overseas too long, and had too many friends from too many places, to think that any culture has it right. Some wonderful things about the West and its various countries, also some criminality and ignorance and selfishness and waste. Same for all nations and cultures, each with their good points we can all learn from, their evils we should all avoid (and my own countries ... both the one where I was born and the one where I now live ... are no exception). There are good and bad people all around.
Anyway, here there is no place for such views. Let us sit, beyond and right through all nations and borders and "you" and "me."
Gassho, Jundo
SatToday
Last edited by Jundo; 01-27-2017 at 08:35 AM.
ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE
Dear all
I realise that this is not the place for political discussions and I respect the views of all people.
However, as I think about the fight of the Standing Rock Nation against the Dakota Access Pipeline (DAPL), I do find myself reflecting on the legitimacy for a group of people to demand control over the influence of the migrant population on their culture when they themselves have both a historic and ongoing practice of cultural and actual genocide and riding roughshod over the rights of the indigenous people in the country they themselves migrated to.
Mitakuye Oyasin (Lakota: we are all related)
Kokuu
-sattoday for the Standing Rock people-
Hi Careless Voice,
I'm hoping I'm not going to be this guy.
Have you ever heard or read any Martin Heidegger? When I was in school I remember reading a passage from one of his books. I think it might be interesting here. (I'm sure I'm butchering his intention but I'm not worried)
When the craftsman in his/her workshop and they reach for their hammer. The hammer is ready at hand and is simply a hammer. To the craftsman the hammer is just a hammer. But when they reach and find it broken it's present at hand. Its the focus of ones intention. It's no long a single element of the world but almost a world unto itself. What was a unity is now a multiplicity. The hammer is no more! Now it's a metal peace and a Wooden handle.
The meaning of the hammer depends on what we are up to. In a conflict the hammer can be a weapon or in the freezing cold a bit of kindling or when one is itchy a poor back scratcher.
To be able to function in this world we have to be able to take complex things and see them in a simple way. This simplicity reflects the activities these "unities" are involved in. A car is a car when I'm driving to the store a car is a system when the mechanic is troubleshooting a problem.
Treating systems a simple unities allow us to engage in complex behaviours. But we (myself included) often look at these phenomena with the less helpful perspective.
How many people on the internet use the words religion and science as if they are simple things? Religion is a poison or foolishness but Science is great! No one practices Religion or Science. They have a religion or practice a science.
I think these ideas apply to culture as well. If one looks closely they can switch from culture to a set of practices performed by a community or set of communities. Some of these practices support each other's and some exist in an uneasy tension.
In addition our emotions tend to be strongest when we are dealing with simplified unities rather than complex multiplicities.
I think it might be helpful to look at the culture you love and try to identify its parts. Perhaps there will be parts you don't like.
Any who that's enough from me now.
Gassho,
Hoseki
Sattoday
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This thread and particularly the discussion of the last couple of days has caused many emotions to arise within me. I have wanted to comment, critique and judge but realize that would add no value and this is not the place to exhibit behavior that my studies in Zen suggest are not always the path. A few of you are Face Book friends and note I have some strong feelings about environmental issues and science and hopefully share those without offending anyone.
I find our species amazing, compassionate, cruel and thoughtless. I often wonder is this the "worst of times or the best of times" and believe that depends on where you were born and in what time you lived and also how you view it all. Not long ago on one of the many talking head shows someone pointed out we were in one of the more peaceful times in human history. Go figure. But then I only have to look back to my parent's generation and World War 2.
I rejected religion when I was very young and became disillusioned with the trajectory of our species in the decades to follow. Though I believe I have lived life with optimism that things would become better for the planet, us and all species and strived to add contributions to that goal. I do admit that is a tougher attitude for me to take even with having a son and grandson that will inherit what ever this earth becomes. And I do think alot of that future for them and all the others. Unlike many, I have a very strong biocentric view of things and have tempered that opinion when talking to others and try to share perspectives in more gradual approaches hoping I can change views I see as the antithesis of all life on this planet. Other times I sit back and say that humanity has become like the meterors of past that collided with this tiny blue spec in the universive and led to the extinction of most life. And yet millions of years later different life forms arose and stumble forward again. So life goes on so to speak...
Zen has helped me frame a perspective of acceptance and understanding that I do not understand. And yet I have a long ways to go on that path and not as many years in front as those that I have lived.
So when I see/hear perspectives that shake my core I often try to channel the following (humor intentionally being brought to my post to help a few smiles arise)
your opinion.jpg
Peace to all and may we help others and other species
Gassho
Doshin
sattoday
Last edited by Doshin; 01-27-2017 at 04:02 PM.
Thank you Doshin.
Gassho
Shingen
s@today
Wow what started out as sort of a "Shock" post has made me think a lot and has produced some awesome responses; which is really the norm around here.
One thing I will say is that although I don't really believe that a culture is naturally superior to any other - I mean we are human beings, there are advantages in different cultures everywhere. So while I don't think that white people are superior, I think that's horseshit, I cannot really point fingers and demonize someone with that thought because:
1. it won't really help
2. Deep down I have a superiority complex, so sometimes I think I'm better than other people, which I think we all share in common.
3. Deep down I have an inferiority complex, so sometimes I feel like I'm not good enough, which is the same side of the BS coin and we all have in common.
4. I have problems with attachment, greed, anger and ignorance which we all share in common.
Gassho,
Risho
-sattoday
Kyonin, I haven't stopped thinking about this post. I heard once that emptiness is com passion itself, I think you have helped me realize a little bit of what that may be.
I'll think of you and your country in my p
ractice.
Gassho,
Ge off
Sattoday
Nothing to do? Why not Sit?
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