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Thread: Zazen for Beginners Series: THREAD for QUESTIONS, COMMENTS

  1. #101
    Just out of curiosity, I looked to see if I could find anything similar in Indian Yoga mudra. Not exactly the same, because the left hand in facing outward, but the "Ganesh Mudra" seems rather similar. I have no idea if there is a relationship in origin. It may just be coincidence, because it seems a rather natural way to lock the hands.



    https://www.yogajournal.com/poses/ganesha-mudra

    Gassho, J

    SatTodayLAH
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  2. #102
    That's interesting. There are far too many of those mudras but can't say I've seen that one in use before.

    Gassho,
    Anant
    Sat

  3. #103
    Thanks to all! I have reached out in PM to some with personal commentary. Does anyone know of a better way to be notified about posts Iím participating and such when mobile? For now I have just been going to the my profile section and clicking on the posts it says Iíve commented on. it is also a bit challenging to utilize and stay on top of this forum on my mobile devices, but they are so much a part of my life than 5ey should be, but still a reality.

    Sattoday

    Shane
    In Sincerity
    Shane

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by SNPII View Post
    Thanks to all! I have reached out in PM to some with personal commentary. Does anyone know of a better way to be notified about posts Iím participating and such when mobile? For now I have just been going to the my profile section and clicking on the posts it says Iíve commented on. it is also a bit challenging to utilize and stay on top of this forum on my mobile devices, but they are so much a part of my life than 5ey should be, but still a reality.

    Sattoday

    Shane
    Hey Shane,

    Yes you can. If you go into your profile on Tapatalk (see attached image), then goto "settings", then under your "push notifications" and "email notifications" yoi can set what you want to be notified about.

    Let me know if this helps. =)

    Gassho
    Shingen

    Sat/LAH
    RINDO SHINGEN
    倫道 真現

  5. #105
    Member Geika's Avatar
    Join Date
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    San Diego County, California
    Choosing to hold your hands behind your back to eschew tradition is the same as holding your hands in the mudra to embrace tradition. No matter which, a choice is being made, thought of, mulled over, decided, questioned, etc. Choosing to simply follow the rituals whether we know what the significance is yet or not removes the questioning from the action, which I feel is the point.

    Gassho, sat today, lah

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    迎 Geika

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Geika View Post
    Choosing to hold your hands behind your back to eschew tradition is the same as holding your hands in the mudra to embrace tradition. No matter which, a choice is being made, thought of, mulled over, decided, questioned, etc. Choosing to simply follow the rituals whether we know what the significance is yet or not removes the questioning from the action, which I feel is the point.

    Gassho, sat today, lah
    I agree with this.

    Unless one is being asked to jump off a high cliff, sleep with the "teacher" or do some other really harmful action, or to become a spiritual Zombie, there is great beauty in this Practice of leaving your personal preferences, likes and dislikes, at the door and just throwing oneself into an activity. It is an important part of Zen, and most Eastern religious, Practices.

    (Of course, nobody will be asked that around here to do anything harmful or become a zombie, and run from any group or guru that asks that ... and there are quite a few, including a couple of Zen groups (Joshu Sasaki, Eido Shimano and some others) who went that bad way. We just had a discussion of two such groups):

    https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/show...l=1#post221174

    Gassho, Jundo

    SatTodayLAH
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  7. #107
    Member Geika's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
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    San Diego County, California
    Thanks, Jundo. I forgot to throw in that important bit!

    I am personally very minimal on ritual, but I only became that way after a few years of getting them in my muscle memory.

    The result of that is sometimes shashu while walking to the fridge, bowing to the toilet, and sometimes just sitting straight on the cushion for zazen and not bowing or doing any ritual until after the bell, or even at all. Sometimes I chant the Heart Sutra without thinking, and sometimes before or after sitting. I really just kind of go with how practice strikes me at each moment. I enjoy it all and have a great love of zen ritual as a practice, even the long form stuff. It merges with my more fluid daily life in a way that becomes natural with time. And I'm always ready for a formal zazenkai, robes and all.

    Gassho, sat today, lah

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    迎 Geika

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Geika View Post

    I am personally very minimal on ritual, but I only became that way after a few years of getting them in my muscle memory.

    The result of that is sometimes shashu while walking to the fridge, bowing to the toilet, and sometimes just sitting straight on the cushion for zazen and not bowing or doing any ritual until after the bell, or even at all. Sometimes I chant the Heart Sutra without thinking, and sometimes before or after sitting. I really just kind of go with how practice strikes me at each moment. I enjoy it all and have a great love of zen ritual as a practice, even the long form stuff. It merges with my more fluid daily life in a way that becomes natural with time. And I'm always ready for a formal zazenkai, robes and all.

    Gassho, sat today, lah
    Yep, me too.

    Gassho, J

    SatTodayLah
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Geika View Post
    Thanks, Jundo. I forgot to throw in that important bit!

    I am personally very minimal on ritual, but I only became that way after a few years of getting them in my muscle memory.

    The result of that is sometimes shashu while walking to the fridge, bowing to the toilet, and sometimes just sitting straight on the cushion for zazen and not bowing or doing any ritual until after the bell, or even at all. Sometimes I chant the Heart Sutra without thinking, and sometimes before or after sitting. I really just kind of go with how practice strikes me at each moment. I enjoy it all and have a great love of zen ritual as a practice, even the long form stuff. It merges with my more fluid daily life in a way that becomes natural with time. And I'm always ready for a formal zazenkai, robes and all.

    Gassho, sat today, lah

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    I too like this Geika, thank you. =)

    Gassho
    Shingen

    Sat/LAH
    RINDO SHINGEN
    倫道 真現

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Geika View Post
    Thanks, Jundo. I forgot to throw in that important bit!

    I am personally very minimal on ritual, but I only became that way after a few years of getting them in my muscle memory.

    The result of that is sometimes shashu while walking to the fridge, bowing to the toilet, and sometimes just sitting straight on the cushion for zazen and not bowing or doing any ritual until after the bell, or even at all. Sometimes I chant the Heart Sutra without thinking, and sometimes before or after sitting. I really just kind of go with how practice strikes me at each moment. I enjoy it all and have a great love of zen ritual as a practice, even the long form stuff. It merges with my more fluid daily life in a way that becomes natural with time. And I'm always ready for a formal zazenkai, robes and all.

    Gassho, sat today, lah

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    Both of your posts here really resonate. Beautiful words Geika, thank you.
    Gassho
    Meitou
    Satwithyoualltoday
    命 Mei - life
    島 Tou - island

  11. #111
    Many thanks for the cloud reference and seeing through them at some point in practice. I cannot say I see through them completely quite yet, but I do have an appreciation now as to the clouds and crystal clear blue luminescent sky co existing! It brings joy!

    Sat2daymanyX's

    In Sincerity
    Shane
    In Sincerity
    Shane

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Geika View Post
    Choosing to hold your hands behind your back to eschew tradition is the same as holding your hands in the mudra to embrace tradition. No matter which, a choice is being made, thought of, mulled over, decided, questioned, etc. Choosing to simply follow the rituals whether we know what the significance is yet or not removes the questioning from the action, which I feel is the point.

    Gassho, sat today, lah

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


    Gassho, Shinshi

    SaT-LaH

  13. #113
    I've been sitting regularly (missing a few days) for a month now, and I'm finding I still have a bit of trouble with breathing. I reviewed the Sit-a-Long about breath (here) to help me but I think I could use a tiny bit more advice.

    I keep catching myself taking such shallow breaths that I'm barely breathing at all. Ideally I should just let those breaths be short, but honestly it feels like I'd just stop breathing entirely. My body doesn't really appreciate that, so I start intentionally taking very deep breaths. Maybe it's the rush of oxygen, or endorphins or something, but it just feels so much better to breathe very deeply and slowly, but that unfortunately takes a bit of intention. Any specific advice here?

    Gassho,
    Kenny
    Sat Today

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny View Post
    I've been sitting regularly (missing a few days) for a month now, and I'm finding I still have a bit of trouble with breathing. I reviewed the Sit-a-Long about breath (here) to help me but I think I could use a tiny bit more advice.

    I keep catching myself taking such shallow breaths that I'm barely breathing at all. Ideally I should just let those breaths be short, but honestly it feels like I'd just stop breathing entirely. My body doesn't really appreciate that, so I start intentionally taking very deep breaths. Maybe it's the rush of oxygen, or endorphins or something, but it just feels so much better to breathe very deeply and slowly, but that unfortunately takes a bit of intention. Any specific advice here?

    Gassho,
    Kenny
    Sat Today
    Hey Kenny,

    The first thing that comes to mind is your posture ... are you keeping a natural straight spine?

    Gassho
    Shingen

    Sat/LAH
    RINDO SHINGEN
    倫道 真現

  15. #115
    As far as I can tell, yes! I try to envision a rope pulling my head up directly above and the rest of my body following suit, then relaxing the rest of my body as if it were "hanging" off of my now-straightened spine. I of course also do the rocking back and forth to make sure that "up" is actually up. Once in awhile I notice I am slouching a little and correct it, but it never feels like a major adjustment. Even then, I could be doing something a little wrong, like leaning forward or back unintentionally or my spine not actually really being straight despite it feeling like it is.

    Gassho
    Kenny
    Sat Today

  16. #116
    Hmmm. I would just say to be breathing from the diaphram all through Zazen. It is natural that, as one relaxes, the breaths become slower and lighter. Sometimes it seems that I might breathe less than twice a minutes.

    However, are you actually then gasping for breath, and feel like you are holding your breath in a pool? Or is it only that you suddenly focus on your breath and panic or become obsessed with it a bit? If the latter, it is just your mind. If the former, it is actually a physical breath issue.

    Just relax and breathe. Normal, natural breathing. You do it all day, sitting or standing, so what is different now? There should be nothing different about breathing in Zazen and just breathing while sitting, so I am not sure what could be causing this. It should be the same as breathing while on the sofa or breathing on the bus.

    Gassho, Jundo

    SatTodayLAH
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny View Post
    As far as I can tell, yes! I try to envision a rope pulling my head up directly above and the rest of my body following suit, then relaxing the rest of my body as if it were "hanging" off of my now-straightened spine. I of course also do the rocking back and forth to make sure that "up" is actually up. Once in awhile I notice I am slouching a little and correct it, but it never feels like a major adjustment. Even then, I could be doing something a little wrong, like leaning forward or back unintentionally or my spine not actually really being straight despite it feeling like it is.

    Gassho
    Kenny
    Sat Today
    Hmmm, hard to say then. It might be that, as if one sloaches it can interfer with the abdomen.

    Maybe try and experiment and keep an eye on your shoulders. Once you move from side to side to find your alignment, roll your shoulders back, dropping your shoulder blades. This can help straighten the spine, but also open the chest. Give it a try and see if it helps with the breathe.

    This again is not the normal procedure, but jist rather a test to see if your situation is related to posture. =)

    Gassho
    Shingen

    Sat/LAH
    RINDO SHINGEN
    倫道 真現

  18. #118
    The sensation I get is that my body is becoming so calm and still that my lungs are unfortunately following suit and trying to be as still as possible. There's no gasping for breath, more of just a feeling of "hey, doofus, you stopped breathing, I need air". Perhaps I'm being too intentional in becoming calm so it's causing my body to act unnaturally, but at some kind of subconscious level, because I'm definitely not intentionally trying to take shallow breaths. I will try out your suggestions and report back after a few days. Thanks for the help!

    Gassho,
    Kenny
    Sat Today

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny View Post
    The sensation I get is that my body is becoming so calm and still that my lungs are unfortunately following suit and trying to be as still as possible. There's no gasping for breath, more of just a feeling of "hey, doofus, you stopped breathing, I need air". Perhaps I'm being too intentional in becoming calm so it's causing my body to act unnaturally, but at some kind of subconscious level, because I'm definitely not intentionally trying to take shallow breaths. I will try out your suggestions and report back after a few days. Thanks for the help!

    Gassho,
    Kenny
    Sat Today
    Ahh, but in zazen we are neither like a monkey or like a sloth ... even though we are calm and still, we are still engaged with our body, still engaged with our breath. So try not to be ridge like a stick or loose like a ramen noodle. =)

    Gassho
    Shingen

    Sat/LAH
    RINDO SHINGEN
    倫道 真現

  20. #120
    Yes, just sit like you are on the bus watching the scenery out the window. Nothing strange should happen to the breath.

    Gassho, J

    STLAH
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  21. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny View Post
    The sensation I get is that my body is becoming so calm and still that my lungs are unfortunately following suit and trying to be as still as possible. There's no gasping for breath, more of just a feeling of "hey, doofus, you stopped breathing, I need air". Perhaps I'm being too intentional in becoming calm so it's causing my body to act unnaturally, but at some kind of subconscious level, because I'm definitely not intentionally trying to take shallow breaths. I will try out your suggestions and report back after a few days. Thanks for the help!

    Gassho,
    Kenny
    Sat Today
    Kenny! Thanks for bringing this up! I often have the same experience when sitting. My respirations seem to become so calm I am almost startled and wondering if I'm getting enough oxygen.

    I work in healthcare and monitor things like this on a regular basis. I have not counted my own respirations while meditating as it is a very innacurate thing to do and would defeat the purpose of sitting.

    Sat2day

    In Sincerity
    Shane
    In Sincerity
    Shane

  22. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by SNPII View Post
    Kenny! Thanks for bringing this up! I often have the same experience when sitting. My respirations seem to become so calm I am almost startled and wondering if I'm getting enough oxygen.

    I work in healthcare and monitor things like this on a regular basis. I have not counted my own respirations while meditating as it is a very innacurate thing to do and would defeat the purpose of sitting.

    Sat2day

    In Sincerity
    Shane
    I have never heard of anyone becoming so slow in breathing during Shikantaza as to actually become oxygen deprived, let alone pass out or do some damage. There may be Indian and other forms of intense meditation where something like that could happen, but Shikantaza is so ordinary and gentle ... I can't imagine. The body would really let you know ... by gasping, by headache or light headedness, feeling like fainting ... if you truly were becoming oxygen deprived. You should just be breathing like you are sitting on the bus looking out the window at passing scenery, i.e., normally.

    It is sounding to me most likely that you guys are just latching on to this and maybe talking yourself into it. However, if there really are some physical symptoms of oxygen deprivation, that is a different story.

    The only other thing I can think of (and I am reaching here) is someone who suffers from sleep apnea. That should be checked by a doctor if you think it a possibility. I am finding some small amount of discussion online of that (and, in fact, meditation seems to be commonly used as a treatment for apnea, although I do not know a lot about it). This fellow is discussing what seems to be an intense form of Kundalini meditation ...

    The other cause is called “central,” in which the cessation of breathing is caused because the brain doesn’t to send the message to breathe. As far as I know, when the oxygen-carbon dioxide balance gets bad enough, the brain eventually restarts the breathing. Talk to your doctor.

    I had been meditating for years with no difficulties even though having both obstructive and central sleep apnea, fortunately mild. I had never heard of kundalini in either the Shaivist or Thelemite forms, so when its physical symptoms started while in meditation one day, I was startled and stopped the process. Once started, Kundalini never stops, and sometimes takes years to complete because it seems to involve a complete rebuilding of the autonomic nervous system.

    ...

    My doctor was of no help. He sent me to a specialist who refused to listen to my symptoms, and to another who simply dismissed them. Eventually two doctors diagnosed it as atrial fibrillation, but it was anomalous because the shaking happened only when I was asleep, and by the time I awoke enough to start a recording device the shaking stopped. I could stop the shaking by taking 20 deep breaths, by massaging my carotid artery (not a good idea, because it could dislodge plaque which might cause a stroke) or by taking a deep breath and “bearing down” this latter is a known technique called the Valsalva maneuver.

    The symptoms have abated over time, and their severity has lessened to a moderate shaking which no longer upsets me. It happens now about three times a week. My current doctors insist that it’s not atrial fib, but have given me no other diagnosis. Otherwise I’m fine. I meditate now only while sitting up so that my relaxed jaw does not obstruct my airways. And yoga Nidra? Forget it!

    So, if you snore, and especially if you stop breathing while you sleep, I suggest that you be most careful in your meditations, and do not attempt yoga Nidra.

    https://tedmacgillivray.com/2012/09/...eally-careful/
    In the case of anything like that, talk to your doctor! However, Shikantaza is very far from any kind of intense meditation like that.

    Gassho, J

    STLAH
    Last edited by Jundo; 05-31-2018 at 04:58 PM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  23. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    I have never heard of anyone becoming so slow in breathing during Shikantaza as to actually become oxygen deprived, let alone pass out or do some damage. There may be Indian and other forms of intense meditation where something like that could happen, but Shikantaza is so ordinary and gentle ... I can't imagine. The body would really let you know ... by gasping, by headache or light headedness, feeling like fainting ... if you truly were becoming oxygen deprived. You should just be breathing like you are sitting on the bus looking out the window at passing scenery, i.e., normally.

    It is sounding to me most likely that you guys are just latching on to this and maybe talking yourself into it. However, if there really are some physical symptoms of oxygen deprivation, that is a different story.

    The only other thing I can think of (and I am reaching here) is someone who suffers from sleep apnea. That should be checked by a doctor if you think it a possibility. I am finding some small amount of discussion online of that (and, in fact, meditation seems to be commonly used as a treatment for apnea, although I do not know a lot about it). This fellow is discussing what seems to be an intense form of Kundalini meditation ...



    In the case of anything like that, talk to your doctor! However, Shikantaza is very far from any kind of intense meditation like that.

    Gassho, J

    STLAH
    I'm gonna stay with the agreement that maybe I am latching onto this more than I should.

    Maybe I should just enjoy the calmness I'm not so used to experiencing more and sit with that.

    Sat2day

    In Sincerity
    Shane
    In Sincerity
    Shane

  24. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by SNPII View Post
    I'm gonna stay with the agreement that maybe I am latching onto this more than I should.

    Maybe I should just enjoy the calmness I'm not so used to experiencing more and sit with that.

    Sat2day

    In Sincerity
    Shane
    Yes, in Shikantaza we are not searching for something or chasing a curtain state or mind or being.

    Calmness is not the only condition that can arise in zazen, other conditions can arise as well. However, in zazen all is whole and complete regardless of what condition maybe present. One state of mind or being is not better or worse then the other. Being open and accpeting of all conditions of life allows allow for moments of kensho to arise naturally. =)

    Gassho
    Shingen

    Sat/LAH
    RINDO SHINGEN
    倫道 真現

  25. #125
    Shingen: I sat a few times now, and I am definitely seeing benefits from lowering the shoulders and pushing them back slightly, and even more if I intentionally stick out my chest a little bit. I still take very shallow breaths when I'm not paying attention, but I never get the sensation that I'm running out of air. Thanks for the tip!

    Jundo:
    It is sounding to me most likely that you guys are just latching on to this and maybe talking yourself into it.
    That actually sounds pretty sensible to me, so I'm wondering why it's the case! I am still a bit perplexed by the shallow breaths, so I guess I'm relaxing just a bit too much? I can try focusing on my breath a bit more, or "everything and nothing in particular" / "the clear blue sky", which might bring me just enough "presence" to keep my breath a bit more natural and not so shallow. I'll sit on that a bit longer, it could be that I'm just overthinking the shallow breathing and it's not actually getting in the way of anything.

    Gassho,
    Kenny
    Sat Today

  26. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny View Post
    Shingen: I sat a few times now, and I am definitely seeing benefits from lowering the shoulders and pushing them back slightly, and even more if I intentionally stick out my chest a little bit. I still take very shallow breaths when I'm not paying attention, but I never get the sensation that I'm running out of air. Thanks for the tip!

    Jundo:

    That actually sounds pretty sensible to me, so I'm wondering why it's the case! I am still a bit perplexed by the shallow breaths, so I guess I'm relaxing just a bit too much? I can try focusing on my breath a bit more, or "everything and nothing in particular" / "the clear blue sky", which might bring me just enough "presence" to keep my breath a bit more natural and not so shallow. I'll sit on that a bit longer, it could be that I'm just overthinking the shallow breathing and it's not actually getting in the way of anything.

    Gassho,
    Kenny
    Sat Today
    Hey Kenny,

    Excellent, I am happy to hear it is providing some help. As Jundo has also mentioned, just find a nice balance of being present with the breath and the posture. Try not to focus too much, but just enough so that you can stay engaged and find that natural place. Keep at it. =)

    Gassho
    Shingen

    Sat/LAH
    RINDO SHINGEN
    倫道 真現

  27. #127
    I have severe Cerebral Palsy. My. body moves almost constantly. However, when I focus on my breath my body becomes still without me trying. If I try to be still, my body starts to move. If I move while doing zazen in my wheelchair I just notice it and gently return my focus to the breath.

  28. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by RisingCrow View Post
    I have severe Cerebral Palsy. My. body moves almost constantly. However, when I focus on my breath my body becomes still without me trying. If I try to be still, my body starts to move. If I move while doing zazen in my wheelchair I just notice it and gently return my focus to the breath.
    Hello Rising Crow, it is good to see you.

    Gassho
    Jakuden
    SatToday/LAH


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    清 道 寂田
    SEIDO JAKUDEN
    I am a novice priest. Any resemblance my posts may have to actual teachings about the Dharma, living or dead, is purely coincidental (and just my attempt to be helpful).

  29. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by RisingCrow View Post
    I have severe Cerebral Palsy. My. body moves almost constantly. However, when I focus on my breath my body becomes still without me trying. If I try to be still, my body starts to move. If I move while doing zazen in my wheelchair I just notice it and gently return my focus to the breath.
    Hi Jesse,

    Good to see you.

    Then, you do what works for you.

    Gassho, Jundo

    SatTodayLAH
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  30. #130
    Okay all, I haven't posted a lot in tree leaf lately because I have truly been focusing on the hinderances and my other studies and practices.

    I have now reached the fourth week of my hinderance practice where I am to focus at least one meditation for the next 7 days on: restlessness, anxiety and worry. The opposite being focus and stillness.

    I am reviewing beginner's teaching #11 about the breath and not focusing on it during meditation to sit Zazen. I feel I am now open to getting a little deeper with Shikantaza Zazen now, but still find difficulty in the "just sit" aspect. I am familiar with the Samatha and vipassana meditations and less with appasati and even less with Zazen (other than what I'm learning in here).

    Can any of you share your journey about transitioning into Shikantaza Zazen as described in number 11 and the like?

    Sat2daymaysitagain

    In Sincerity
    Shane
    In Sincerity
    Shane

  31. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by SNPII View Post

    I have now reached the fourth week of my hinderance practice where I am to focus at least one meditation for the next 7 days on: restlessness, anxiety and worry. The opposite being focus and stillness.

    I am reviewing beginner's teaching #11 about the breath and not focusing on it during meditation to sit Zazen. I feel I am now open to getting a little deeper with Shikantaza Zazen now, but still find difficulty in the "just sit" aspect. I am familiar with the Samatha and vipassana meditations and less with appasati and even less with Zazen (other than what I'm learning in here).
    Hi Shane,

    Shikantaza is not a breath practice (apart from allowing the breath to be deep and natural). It is also a radical allowing of things as they are. One does not beat "restlessness, anxiety and worry" be trying to sweep them away, but rather by radically pay em no nevermind, not being bothered by any condition of life. I posted something else about this to explain ...

    In most forms of Zazen or meditation, there is good and bad, successful and not successful sitting. In Shikantaza, it is impossible by definition to have any bad or unsuccessful sitting. Simply sitting is, ipso facto, success. Good or bad, successful or unsuccessful judgments are washed away in automatic "Good Sitting which is Successful Just By Sitting" (one possible way to translate the meaning of the word "Shikantaza" right there). Unlike most forms of meditation, that means that even those sometime days of angry, confused, cloudy, wallowing in emotions sitting is "good, successful sitting."

    However (now the wondrous twist, the tricky catch!), when one truly lets each and every sitting be itself, good and successful just by being itself, there is thus something transcendent of anger, confusion, cloudiness and wallowing simply by letting "anger, confusion, clouds and wallowing" (and all conditions of life) just be "anger, confusion, clouds and wallowing" (and all conditions of life as they are). As strange as it sounds, one is thus "free" of anger, confusion, clouds and wallowing even in the continued presence of anger, confusion, clouds and wallowing, as much as in their absence too. The "anger, confusion, cloudiness and wallowing" is completely transformed in Wisdom and Clarity by our non-resistance and equanimity about even our passing feelings of resistance and lack of equanimity. So long as one is sitting, with the act of sitting as all that is demanded of the act of sitting, this is the universe in fruition.
    https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/show...-in-Shikantaza
    We are always trying to "fix" life. The cause of the "restlessness, anxiety and worry" is precisely our dissatisfaction with the state of things, need to fix or resistance to how things are. I am not proposing to wallow in "restlessness, anxiety and worry." Rather, the radical dropping of need to fix ... including to fix anything including some passing "restlessness, anxiety and worry" ... is precisely the contentment that is the cure for "restlessness, anxiety and worry". Rather counter-intuitive, but it works.

    I am not sure what a "hindrance practice" is. Shikantaza is our "no hindrances even in a world of hindrances" practice.

    Gassho, Jundo

    SatTodayLAH
    Last edited by Jundo; 06-13-2018 at 03:30 AM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  32. #132
    Member Geika's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    San Diego County, California
    I know that you sometimes feel like a broken record, Jundo, but sometimes rereading the "Jundo Classics" will cause something to click in a way it never has before, despite having read it the same way for years. Thanks for your persistence, and patience.

    Gassho, sat today, lah
    迎 Geika

  33. #133
    Hello all!
    I seem to be having some troubles with using ĎHangoutsí. Iím not sure this is the correct thread to be posting this question in, but here goes.
    Iíve been a member for a little while now, and manage to attend Zazenkai with my regular sangha often, but in the times in which I cannot attend, or make the drive to temple, I sit by the altar in our home. I wish to sit with this community when doing so, but have troubles with hangouts. I have noticed that there seems to be two sitting schedules on the site, one says Mon-Sunday sittings, and the other is a list that says ďZazenĒ with... and whoever the respective person is, Iím assuming leading the zazenkai. That being said, Iíve tried sittings from either list, and cannot see, nor hear if Iím in the right place, no bells, and either a blank screen or just myself on screen. Iíve checked the settings of the app on my phone, and it should be working properly, but this still keeps happening. Perhaps someone could help me determine what Iím doing wrong? Thank you so much.
    Gassho
    合掌
    DB

  34. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by dialectbird View Post
    Hello all!
    I seem to be having some troubles with using ĎHangoutsí. Iím not sure this is the correct thread to be posting this question in, but here goes.
    Iíve been a member for a little while now, and manage to attend Zazenkai with my regular sangha often, but in the times in which I cannot attend, or make the drive to temple, I sit by the altar in our home. I wish to sit with this community when doing so, but have troubles with hangouts. I have noticed that there seems to be two sitting schedules on the site, one says Mon-Sunday sittings, and the other is a list that says ďZazenĒ with... and whoever the respective person is, Iím assuming leading the zazenkai. That being said, Iíve tried sittings from either list, and cannot see, nor hear if Iím in the right place, no bells, and either a blank screen or just myself on screen. Iíve checked the settings of the app on my phone, and it should be working properly, but this still keeps happening. Perhaps someone could help me determine what Iím doing wrong? Thank you so much.
    Gassho
    合掌
    DB
    I had the same problem with my phone for the weekly Zazenkai. My solution was to use Google Chrome on my computer instead. My phone seems to work for the daily sits though. Donít know why but that is how I got it to work.


    Sat2day

  35. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by dialectbird View Post
    Hello all!
    I seem to be having some troubles with using ĎHangoutsí. Iím not sure this is the correct thread to be posting this question in, but here goes.
    Iíve been a member for a little while now, and manage to attend Zazenkai with my regular sangha often, but in the times in which I cannot attend, or make the drive to temple, I sit by the altar in our home. I wish to sit with this community when doing so, but have troubles with hangouts. I have noticed that there seems to be two sitting schedules on the site, one says Mon-Sunday sittings, and the other is a list that says ďZazenĒ with... and whoever the respective person is, Iím assuming leading the zazenkai. That being said, Iíve tried sittings from either list, and cannot see, nor hear if Iím in the right place, no bells, and either a blank screen or just myself on screen. Iíve checked the settings of the app on my phone, and it should be working properly, but this still keeps happening. Perhaps someone could help me determine what Iím doing wrong? Thank you so much.
    Gassho
    合掌
    DB
    Hello DB,

    Are you checking out our Calendar? They have all the sittings and times ... here it is: https://www.treeleaf.org/now/#calendar

    If this is not the case and oyu have checked it out, can you PM me and I will help you out. =)

    Gassho
    Shingen

    Sat/LAH
    RINDO SHINGEN
    倫道 真現

  36. #136
    Hiya Shingen,
    I have tried sitting with groups from that link as well as the other one that has a green heading, but each to no avail. Iíll try again today at four, and if that doesnít work Iíll let you know.
    Thank you very much.
    Gassho
    合掌
    DB

  37. #137
    Hiya Troy,
    Yeah, Iíve been trying to sit with any group sitting really for some time, but neither my phone nor computer are working. I donít think Iíve tried using Chrome on my computer, but Iíll give that a shot first today, and see what happens.
    Gassho
    合掌
    DB

  38. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by dialectbird View Post
    Hiya Shingen,
    I have tried sitting with groups from that link as well as the other one that has a green heading, but each to no avail. Iíll try again today at four, and if that doesnít work Iíll let you know.
    Thank you very much.
    Gassho
    合掌
    DB
    Sounds good ... I see you are in the PST time zone. I sit at 7pm PST, maybe you can try then as well? But do let me know what happens today and with what sitting time and host please. =)

    Gassho
    Shingen

    Sat/LAH
    RINDO SHINGEN
    倫道 真現

  39. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Shingen View Post
    Sounds good ... I see you are in the PST time zone. I sit at 7pm PST, maybe you can try then as well? But do let me know what happens today and with what sitting time and host please. =)

    Gassho
    Shingen

    Sat/LAH
    DB may need to be added to the Google Circle if he is not already. I remember I could not see your links until I was part of the circle.


    Sat2day

  40. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by Troy View Post
    DB may need to be added to the Google Circle if he is not already. I remember I could not see your links until I was part of the circle.


    Sat2day
    Hey DB .... can you give me your real name and Google+ profile url please. =)

    Gassho
    Shingen

    Sat/LAH
    RINDO SHINGEN
    倫道 真現

  41. #141

  42. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by dialectbird View Post
    Shingen,
    My name is Dale, and hereís the link.

    https://plus.google.com/113895207268648791993
    Cool, thank you. I have added you to my sitting group just in case ...

    Also, did yah get a chance to sit today online and what was the outcome? Are you getting into a room and it is just that no one is there?

    Gassho
    Shingen

    Sat/LAH
    RINDO SHINGEN
    倫道 真現

  43. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Shingen View Post
    Cool, thank you. I have added you to my sitting group just in case ...

    Also, did yah get a chance to sit today online and what was the outcome? Are you getting into a room and it is just that no one is there?

    Gassho
    Shingen

    Sat/LAH
    Hoya Shingen,
    Unfortunately I was called in a bit early to work that time. I am absolutely going to keep making attempts until it works out. I thought that too, but I ended up sitting for about an hour with no bells.

  44. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by dialectbird View Post
    Hoya Shingen,
    Unfortunately I was called in a bit early to work that time. I am absolutely going to keep making attempts until it works out. I thought that too, but I ended up sitting for about an hour with no bells.
    Called into work? Geezzzz ... don't they know zazen always comes first? LOL =)

    No worries, keep at it and let me know what happens. If you and I need to do a test run to make sure all the bells are working, we can do that too. Keep me posted. =)

    Gassho
    Shingen

    Sat/LAH
    RINDO SHINGEN
    倫道 真現

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