Page 7 of 7 FirstFirst ... 567
Results 301 to 309 of 309

Thread: Zazen for Beginners Series: THREAD for QUESTIONS, COMMENTS

  1. #301
    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    To each there own body. Just do not obsess about which way is better.

    But, when the bell rings until the bell rings again, try not to switch unless there is really necessity.

    Gassho, J

    STLah
    Yes, within a session I really try to not move at all "whatever happens" so to speak i.e. I push through some discomfort...

    At the beginning I did not want to alternate legs from session to session, but as from today I have started to do so in order to avoid potential longterm problems...for some reason the discomfort in my left hip is larger and comes quicker around the corner when my left leg is upper in half lotus...I will continue to stretch my hips regularly and maybe it will get better over time.

    Preferrably I did not want to have to alternate legs from session to session (as said) because I think that it might be easier for the brain to only need to "know" one posture to really make it "second nature". But on the other hand 2 postures (still half lotus but alternating legs) should be a small enough number so that one should hopefully not have trouble to make those postures "second nature".

    I will just observe how it goes within the next few weeks - in case the discomfort and pain will not be reduced in a few weeks despite stretching and what not, I just might switch to a quarter lotus which I personally prefer to a burmese posture since it gives my knees less pressure...

    PS.: The hand mudra I do not alternate by the way and hope that's fine - this means, no matter if my left or right leg is upper,
    always my left hand is on top of the right hand.


    Sorry for the long post.

    Gassho
    Chris
    Sat today

  2. #302
    At the beginning I did not want to alternate legs from session to session, but as from today I have started to do so in order to avoid potential longterm problems...for some reason the discomfort in my left hip is larger and comes quicker around the corner when my left leg is upper in half lotus...I will continue to stretch my hips regularly and maybe it will get better over time.
    I think that is a good idea, Chris. I used to do the same when I started sitting for a reasonable length of time and it was helpful to my longer-term comfort in the posture(s).

    Gassho
    Kokuu
    -sattoday-
    ------------------------------------
    Feel free to message me if you wish to talk about issues around practicing with physical limitations. This is something I have been sitting with for a fair while and am happy to help with suggestions or just offer a listening ear.

  3. #303
    Quote Originally Posted by Zrebna View Post
    Yes, within a session I really try to not move at all "whatever happens" so to speak i.e. I push through some discomfort...

    At the beginning I did not want to alternate legs from session to session, but as from today I have started to do so in order to avoid potential longterm problems...for some reason the discomfort in my left hip is larger and comes quicker around the corner when my left leg is upper in half lotus...I will continue to stretch my hips regularly and maybe it will get better over time.

    Preferrably I did not want to have to alternate legs from session to session (as said) because I think that it might be easier for the brain to only need to "know" one posture to really make it "second nature". But on the other hand 2 postures (still half lotus but alternating legs) should be a small enough number so that one should hopefully not have trouble to make those postures "second nature".

    I will just observe how it goes within the next few weeks - in case the discomfort and pain will not be reduced in a few weeks despite stretching and what not, I just might switch to a quarter lotus which I personally prefer to a burmese posture since it gives my knees less pressure...

    PS.: The hand mudra I do not alternate by the way and hope that's fine - this means, no matter if my left or right leg is upper,
    always my left hand is on top of the right hand.


    Sorry for the long post.

    Gassho
    Chris
    Sat today
    The mudra never changes!

    Let me just say, for the posture to ďbecome second natureĒ, all you need to do it sit in it.. day in and day out. Itís not about ďthinkingĒ it or worrying about it, cause we donít stop and think of how we use our hands to eat, or how we step when we walk, or how we breathe, right? We simply do. Zazen is like that.

    Sat Today (and ran a little long as well)
    Bion
    美音

    -------------------------
    Join me on Insight Timer
    Help me feed those in need by joining my Share The Meal team HERE

  4. #304
    Quote Originally Posted by Bion View Post
    The mudra never changes!
    As the father of a leftie, I think that there is some discrimination here.

    Tradition smadition, I don't think it matters whether left over right or right over left.

    By the way, did you ever look closely at the mudra of most Buddha statues?? Notice which hand is on the bottom??



    Gassho, J

    STlah
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  5. #305
    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    As the father of a leftie, I think that there is some discrimination here.

    Tradition smadition, I don't think it matters whether left over right or right over left.

    By the way, did you ever look closely at the mudra of most Buddha statues?? Notice which hand is on the bottom??



    Gassho, J

    STlah
    Ha! Nice one! Even better then!!! I stand totally corrected!

    Sat Today
    Bion
    美音

    -------------------------
    Join me on Insight Timer
    Help me feed those in need by joining my Share The Meal team HERE

  6. #306
    Husband and older daughter are both lefties.

    Gassho, meian stlh

    Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
    迷安 Mei An (Wandering At Rest) | 優婆塞 Ubasoku
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    Living and practicing at the pace of chronic illness.

  7. #307
    Quote Originally Posted by Bion View Post
    Ha! Nice one! Even better then!!! I stand totally corrected!

    Sat Today
    A traditional point may have been that only a full blown Buddha can sit so ... we are not allowed to.

    But here is more on the topic of anti-south paw discrimination that you probably care (or need) to know ...

    ~~~~


    In Fukanzazengi, Master Dogen writes ...

    Then place your right hand on your left leg and your left hand on your right palm, thumb-tips lightly touching.

    A respected Buddhist art historian says:

    Zenjō-in 禅定印 [meaning “Meditation Mudra”] ... Made by placing both hands in the lap, right on top of left, with palms turned upward and thumbs touching to form a circle. It symbolizes the Buddha in a state of meditation. ... In addition, Zen artwork frequently portrays Shaka (the Historical Buddha) with the ordinary meditation mudra, but the position of both hands is often reversed (left on top of right, not right on top of left). This is called Zenshūyō-no-Shaka (Shaka in the Style of the Zen Sect).
    But does it matter? In some areas of traditional Chinese medicine, some people make a big deal of this (the same prejudice found in the west for the "sinister" left). I would not make a big deal of this. I have heard some other Zen teachers of many years experience commenting on it. Let me briefly quote from the article by the current abbot of Antaiji, Muho Noelke, for those who don't know ...

    In the "introduction to Zazen"... Sawaki Roshi [ states that] " ... . First you should know the difference between two ways of sitting: GŰmaza, the "posture that subdues demons", and kichijŰza, the "auspicious posture". Even in old texts, there is quite some confusion about the two postures. In short, the right side represents the ascending, active (yang) aspect. The left side represents the descending, passive (yin) aspect. When the right foot rests on the left thigh, that represents the ascending activity that subdues the demons (gŰmaza). When the left foot rests on the right thigh, that is a descending, passive activity which is auspicious (kichijŰza).
    You might think that this is only true for the half lotus. But that is not the case: In full lotus as well, if you first place your right foot on top of the left thigh, that is called gŰmaza. GŰmaza also means to place the right hand first on the left foot. When the right hand is covered next with the left hand, that settles down the mind. In kichijŰza on the other hand, the left foot is placed first on the right thigh (and then the right foot on the left thight) and the left hand is placed on top of the right foot, then the right hand on top of the left hand. That means that we speak of kichijŰza in the case of half lotus as Dogen Zenji describes it - left foot placed on right thigh - while we speak of gŰmaza in the case of the full lotus (with right foot placed on left thigh first, then left foot placed on right thigh)."

    Although Sawaki Roshi tries to clear up the confusion with these words, I have doubts that he is successful. It seems strange that Dogen Zenji should recommend kichijŰza for half lotus and gŰmaza for full lotus. Sawaki Roshi does not tell us why we should sit one way in half lotus and the other way in full lotus. It is interesting but even more confusing that Sawaki also speaks about the hands. In the case of the hands, we should have them in the gŰmaza-posture regardless of half or full lotus - according to Dogen read in the way Sawaki does. I am afraid that Sawaki's way of reading Dogen though is not only confusing, but probably wrong altogether.
    Personally, I think the who thing is a bunch of hogwash, based upon bits of ancient Chinese medicine and ideas of Ki, Yin Yang, traditional "left side/right side" ideas and superstitions, and the prejudice of of "right" handed folks against the "sinister" left. It is a quaint idea, nothing more.

    Several respected older Western Zen teachers were discussing the article recently, and don't see the difference between left and right. I usually favor the right, as I am right handed. It feels strange for to place the hands, for example, with the left hand on the bottom. However, I do not see any magic property in sitting one way or the other. If something feels strange about one side or the other, it is the same strangeness of a left hander trying to play tennis with a right handed grip and visa versa.



    Gassho, J

    SatTodayLAH
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  8. #308
    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    A traditional point may have been that only a full blown Buddha can sit so ... we are not allowed to.

    But here is more on the topic of anti-south paw discrimination that you probably care (or need) to know ...

    ~~~~


    In Fukanzazengi, Master Dogen writes ...

    Then place your right hand on your left leg and your left hand on your right palm, thumb-tips lightly touching.

    A respected Buddhist art historian says:



    But does it matter? In some areas of traditional Chinese medicine, some people make a big deal of this (the same prejudice found in the west for the "sinister" left). I would not make a big deal of this. I have heard some other Zen teachers of many years experience commenting on it. Let me briefly quote from the article by the current abbot of Antaiji, Muho Noelke, for those who don't know ...



    Personally, I think the who thing is a bunch of hogwash, based upon bits of ancient Chinese medicine and ideas of Ki, Yin Yang, traditional "left side/right side" ideas and superstitions, and the prejudice of of "right" handed folks against the "sinister" left. It is a quaint idea, nothing more.

    Several respected older Western Zen teachers were discussing the article recently, and don't see the difference between left and right. I usually favor the right, as I am right handed. It feels strange for to place the hands, for example, with the left hand on the bottom. However, I do not see any magic property in sitting one way or the other. If something feels strange about one side or the other, it is the same strangeness of a left hander trying to play tennis with a right handed grip and visa versa.



    Gassho, J

    SatTodayLAH
    Wow, thanks for that information. Iíve never pondered as to why the mudra is left over right, so thatís good to know. For me itís always been about respecting the teaching passed down through generations, with no regard for the ďbenefitĒ of one over the other: itís just how we do it.
    In reality, I do it cause I have two hands and can sit on two legs, but my zazen, I feel, would be in no way superior to that of someone without arms or legs, who canít form the mudra.

    Thank you for being the benevolent and patient encyclopedia you are

    Sat Today ( and used too many words.. which I apologize for)
    Bion
    美音

    -------------------------
    Join me on Insight Timer
    Help me feed those in need by joining my Share The Meal team HERE

  9. #309
    Really interesting stuff on the "how to form the mudra"-topic.
    I also do not believe that there is something "magical" going on i.e. that it really would matter (if left on right or vice versa) and in addition to that it's somewhat amusing that in other big tradtions such as within the Theravada School it is apparently completely the opposite i.e. there the default/"official" recommendation seems to be to place the right hand on the left hand - also the fingers are fully stretched and the thumbs would not touch...

    Anyways, thanks for the input, as usual.

    Gassho
    Chris
    Sat today

Page 7 of 7 FirstFirst ... 567

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •